Pubs Open On X-Mass Day, Yay Or Nay?

Wacker

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

Jimoslimos wrote:

Yep I voted "Closed for Family Reasons" along with most people. I used to work as a barman and can say from experience a lot of publicans would want to keep with the status quo.

If they wanted to keep with the status quo, then they could happily stay closed on Christmas Day, and I'd have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the fact that they don't have the option of legally staying open if the barman doesn't want to keep the status quo. I do not believe that this is something that a government should be legislating on. Society is at it's best when we have more legal options, not less.

Now, for all of you who say that it is only two days a year, don't you see that that works both ways? Why should the fact that it is only twice a year only count when you want to keep the pubs closed? In my opninion, if it is only two days a year, then it would be no big deal for them to be open either, on those two days.

kippy

Lads have a look here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054916099&referrerid=&highlight=pubs+closed+good+friday
Pretty much every argument has been put forward so far.
My opinion, Pubs shouldnt be allowed open on these two days a year. They shouldnt have the choice.
We have a big enough problem with alcohol in this country as it is. Never mind the other arguments.
Kippy

kevmy

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

kippy wrote:

We have a big enough problem with alcohol in this country as it is. Never mind the other arguments.
Kippy

Hear, hear

SmoothyG

I think that if the pub owner wants to open and the staff agree to a pay structure then they should be able to do what they want. if someone wants to go to the pub on xmas day then who am i, or ye, to say otherwise.

wouldnt go myself, but live and let live i say

Jimoslimos

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Wacker wrote:

What I do have a problem with is the fact that they don't have the option of legally staying open if the barman doesn't want to keep the status quo. I do not believe that this is something that a government should be legislating on. Society is at it's best when we have more legal options, not less.

I did say a lot/most publicans would want to keep things as is, however if the law was changed and they were given the option to open/close then you'd find a cascade effect where a few open and then everything follows suit - greed comes into the equation since no publican worth his salt is going to sit by and watch his/her competitors take business on Xmas day. Sometimes legislation is neccessary for situations as such.

User45701

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

SmoothyG wrote:

I think that if the pub owner wants to open and the staff agree to a pay structure then they should be able to do what they want. if someone wants to go to the pub on xmas day then who am i, or ye, to say otherwise.

wouldnt go myself, but live and let live i say

That reley is the fairest way to have thins in a democratic country

scojones

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

I go for pints in the Shannon Golf Club every xmas day for 2 hours. It opens from noon to 2pm.

bonkey

One question for all those voting "close for family reasons"...

What about people with no family?

Just because you're lucky enough to have someone to spend Christmas with doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Mossy Monk

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

kippy wrote:

We have a big enough problem with alcohol in this country as it is. Never mind the other arguments.
Kippy

lets ban alcohol completely then

kizzyr

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

I@m lazy today and haven't bothered to read all of the thread just now (but will later I promise:D ) but I think they should be closed. There are 2 days in the year that the are supposed to close and I have no problem with that. I think its crazy that as a nation we moan about not being able to go the the pub on Christmas Day, is it that difficult to stay at home :rolleyes:

mickoneill30

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

bonkey wrote:

One question for all those voting "close for family reasons"...

What about people with no family?

Just because you're lucky enough to have someone to spend Christmas with doesn't mean that everyone else is.

How about friends? Do you have any of those? Is the pub the only place you can meet them?

scojones

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

mickoneill30 wrote:

How about friends? Do you have any of those? Is the pub the only place you can meet them?

There's no need to be so ignorant. This isn't TCN or The Thunderdome.
Were you ever taught how to have a constructive debate? If so, it really doesn't look like it.

mickoneill30

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

My point was that you can spend time with your friends on Christmas too. And it doesn't always have to be in a pub.
Was that spelled out clearly enough for you?

User45701

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

bonkey wrote:

One question for all those voting "close for family reasons"...

What about people with no family?

Just because you're lucky enough to have someone to spend Christmas with doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Exactly

mickoneill30 wrote:

My point was that you can spend time with your friends on Christmas too. And it doesn't always have to be in a pub.
Was that spelled out clearly enough for you?

There are people who have no friends aswell you know.
What about all the foreign people who would come here for work not all of them would have family and its wrong for them to have to sit at home by themselves

scojones

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

You're assuming that his friends are not otherwise engaged with their family on that day. Common sense would say that people are often busy doing things with their families on christmas day and do not have time to spend with their friends. I'm fairly sure that was the point he was making. What about the people who have no family and whos friends are otherwise engaged?
Is that clear enough for you?
If someone wants to go to the pub on christmas day because they have nobody to be with then I really don't see the problem with this. It's their life.
It's amazing how uptight you people are.

Now instead of trying to find a flaw in what I have said in order to win this argument why not just listen to what I am saying and appreciate their situation.

Sleepy

Other - Please State

I think publicans should have the right to open if they choose to do so, whilst obviously staff would have the right to refuse to work if they didn't want to (like a bank holiday etc.).

User45701

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

sjones wrote:

You're assuming that his friends are not otherwise engaged with their family on that day. Common sense would say that people are often busy doing things with their families on christmas day and do not have time to spend with their friends. I'm fairly sure that was the point he was making. What about the people who have no family and whos friends are otherwise engaged?
Is that clear enough for you?
If someone wants to go to the pub on christmas day because they have nobody to be with then I really don't see the problem with this. It's their life.
It's amazing how uptight you people are.

Now instead of trying to find a flaw in what I have said in order to win this argument why not just listen to what I am saying and appreciate their situation.

Someone here in work has made the point that if someone had no family then a friend or work collauge would be aware of this and invite them to there own family x-mass dinner, i certanly remember from when i was a kid a family friend (no releation) was in her late 30`s when i was around 5-11 and i remember her comming for christmass dinner every year because she didnt have anywhere elce to go she was invited.

I have to say that was quite nice of my mother and grandmother to invite her but if it was me a few years from now with family deceased and no longer having friends due to arguments or other reasons i think i might feel quite awkward or embarrassed if i was invited to someone else's family dinner.

Anyone ever see the
"X-files, Season 4, Episode 7: Musings of a ciggeratre smoking man"
Its a great episode follows the life story of the smoking man or cancer man. and it has some relevance to what where talking about.
I think that no matter how proud or strong a person is mentally, it could be hard to spend christmass alone in a house or apartment...

Degag

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

I'm a barman, and i'd never work Christmas Day regardless of how much i'd get paid. I'm busy enough for the rest of the period... that reminds me, must try and get stephans day off aswell this year.:D

Saying that, i have no problem with a pub opening Good Friday... I've often drank in a pub on good friday also.... one of the few perks of being a barman...

mickoneill30

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

sjones wrote:

What about the people who have no family and whos friends are otherwise engaged?

I've worked abroad for the last five years so I wasn't near family. I did manage to make friends though so I don't fit into both categories. I generally gravitated to people in a similar situation to me and we spent Christmas together. It just seems unusual that somebody wouldn't have any friends that they could spend time with. I would think that most people would be able to do that. Generally people aren't that unfriendly.
There are guys in work with me here that I only met a couple of weeks ago and already I'd be comfortable having them visit if they had nobody else to spend Christmas with.

Anyway. It's getting off topic now so I won't argue with you anymore.

aidan24326

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

bonkey wrote:

One question for all those voting "close for family reasons"...

What about people with no family?

Just because you're lucky enough to have someone to spend Christmas with doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Very true, but is sitting alone in the pub all day going to make that person feel any better? Hardly. I can imagine the pub being a very depressing place on christmas day if you were already feeling lonely.

aidan24326

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

mickoneill30 wrote:

It just seems unusual that somebody wouldn't have any friends that they could spend time with. I would think that most people would be able to do that. Generally people aren't that unfriendly

Maybe not that unusal. Some people just have very few friends for whatever reason. And lots of people nowadays are 'that unfriendly'. The neighbourly goodwill of yesteryear barely exists now in Ireland where everybody is busy looking after number one.

Cianos

Other - Please State

The sooner Irish people stop thinking a pub is a completely different entity to any other business and deserved of all this extra attention, the better.

Publicans should have the choice, simple as. Creating laws based around a type of liquid is mad.

Sad Professor

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

I'm not religious or much of a drinker (and I hate Christmas) but I think they should remain closed for the sake of the staff. Its easy to say only let people work if they want to but it doesn't work that way. And if the pubs opened everywhere else would as well. Bank holidays have been made practically meaningless in recent years, lets hold on to Christmas as a genuine holiday for a little while longer.

MrJoeSoap

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Cianos wrote:

Creating laws based around a type of liquid is mad.

Like, oooh I dunno... drink driving?

kippy

The sooner Irish people stop thinking a pub is a completely different entity to any other business and deserved of all this extra attention, the better.

Publicans should have the choice, simple as. Creating laws based around a type of liquid is mad.

Thats one of the stupidest and most irresponsible things I have ever heard.

A pub is a different entity to other business simply because of the main liquid it sells.
Alcohol is a drug. Used incorrectly its highly dangerous, like any drug.
Publicians shouldnt have the choice for the numerous reasons listed above.
You on the other hand should realise the stupidity of your comments.

Cianos

Other - Please State

Of course I agree with you in those senses.

I probably should have been a bit more articulate.

What I mean to say is that Irish people are obsessed with pubs and drink to an unhealthy level on a society-wide basis. A pub is simply a place where people go to have a drink. Like a café. Yet we are always being told what time we can go at, when we have to go home and so on. Thus we get even more up in arms about lashing in the drink because we're afraid we wont get enough. Its a viscious circle, and even though we are so fond of our drink it is still such a taboo subject. I think if we werent as obsessive about pubs and drink, we'd have a lot less to worry about.

Edit: For anyone who has travelled around Europe you will know that their licensing laws are so much more liberal yet they seem to have far far less drink related problems.

kippy

Of course I agree with you in those senses.

I probably should have been a bit more articulate.

What I mean to say is that Irish people are obsessed with pubs and drink to an unhealthy level on a society-wide basis. A pub is simply a place where people go to have a drink. Like a café. Yet we are always being told what time we can go at, when we have to go home and so on. Thus we get even more up in arms about lashing in the drink because we're afraid we wont get enough. Its a viscious circle, and even though we are so fond of our drink it is still such a taboo subject. I think if we werent as obsessive about pubs and drink, we'd have a lot less to worry about.

The point is, the drink they are having is alcoholic, a dangerous drug, which needs to be regulated in some form.
We are gone off topic here really, as people should be able to accept the fact that pubs are closed two days a year, vintners know that when they get their licenses so no sympathy to them, people should make time for other things that day, if they dont want to then they should have beers with friends at home.
If people dont like it then they should move elsewhere.
By the way, this topic will be discussed again at easter so I'll be keeping the link from this and last years easter post handy to repost.
Kippy

Cianos

Other - Please State

kippy wrote:

The point is, the drink they are having is alcoholic, a dangerous drug, which needs to be regulated in some form.
We are gone off topic here really, as people should be able to accept the fact that pubs are closed two days a year, vintners know that when they get their licenses so no sympathy to them, people should make time for other things that day, if they dont want to then they should have beers with friends at home.
If people dont like it then they should move elsewhere.
By the way, this topic will be discussed again at easter so I'll be keeping the link from this and last years easter post handy to repost.
Kippy

It does need to be regulated in some form. Drink driving being a very obvious one. But not to the extent that which it is imo. It's like the bold child, who only wants what he is not allowed.

The point I'm trying to make is that pubs should not be treated any differently to any other business. Just because they sell alcoholic drinks, does not mean they should by law have to close on Christmas and Easter, while every other shop or outlet can open or close as they please. Should shops selling cigarettes have to close by law because nicotine is a dangerous drug? Again its coming back to that old Irish obsession with drink and how as a nation we have been forced into 'behaving' when it comes to drink.

kippy

It does need to be regulated in some form. Drink driving being a very obvious one. But not to the extent that which it is imo. It's like the bold child, who only wants what he is not allowed.

The point I'm trying to make is that pubs should not be treated any differently to any other business. Just because they sell alcoholic drinks, does not mean they should by law have to close on Christmas and Easter, while every other shop or outlet can open or close as they please. Should shops selling cigarettes have to close by law because nicotine is a dangerous drug? Again its coming back to that old Irish obsession with drink and how as a nation we have been forced into 'behaving' when it comes to drink.

Pubs should and are in more ways than this treated differently to any other business. Every business and every different type of business is regulated/treated differently to other types of business. Think recent groceries order, hygiene standards in restaurents etc etc.
Nicotine and Alcohol are two totally different drugs with two totally different issues. We all know what alcohol can cause. Nicotine, like alcohol is under similiar legislation regard age groups of people it can be sold to.

Anyway, the reason that pubs close on these two days is religious and historic more so than for the good of the health and wellbeing of the people so our points are kind of lost in this thread.
People have to be forced into behaving when it comes to anything if they cannot make the "right" decisions themselves.

Cianos

Other - Please State

kippy wrote:

People have to be forced into behaving when it comes to anything if they cannot make the "right" decisions themselves.

But why cant we make the right decision ourselves? What is it about Irish people that means our licensing laws have to be far more strict than a lot of countries? Are we less mature, less capable of our European neighbours? Or, what impact do the strict licensing laws have on the perceived 'epidemic' of (binge) drinking culture? The answer always seems to be to make the leash even tighter, but I am for the opposite approach.

And yes your right this is going slightly off topic now:o

kippy

But why cant we make the right decision ourselves? What is it about Irish people that means our licensing laws have to be far more strict than a lot of countries? Are we less mature, less capable of our European neighbours? Or, what impact do the strict licensing laws have on the perceived 'epidemic' of (binge) drinking culture? The answer always seems to be to make the leash even tighter, but I am for the opposite approach.

And yes your right this is going slightly off topic now

The same could be said of Irish people regarding our driving laws, a lot of topics in the motor forum are regards reducing road deaths. In a lot of situations drivers are to blame and laws need to be enforced and possibly made a lot stricter in many instances because of the lack of care of some people in responsible driving. The same can be said for drinking.
I do see what you are saying and I dont think there would be any problem in testing the lease being a bit less tight for a while, but I honestly dont believe things would be any better.
Its not really for these reasons why I think the pubs should remain closed on the two days of the year that they are, its more because that one of the things that makes Christmas day different and unique for many people.

Either way, I am all for leaving this particular law/situation as it is.
Kippy

monkeyfudge

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

The day has no religious significance for me and I'm not on speaking terms with a good few members of my family so I tend to have to spend Xmas in exile. So I'd definitely love to be able to sit in the pub with a pint of Guinness and a good book on Xmas day... It would certainly beat sitting in my office and posting here which is what I've been doing for the past few years.

J.R.HARTLEY

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

"closed for family" was my choice. i'm a little surprised that when we have such a hysteria about binge drinking in ireland people are whining about the pub being closed 1 day, even though they can drink at home. granted good friday is a crock but christmas is special for non religous reasons aswell.

not to mention the already mentioned point of no public transport and the temptation to drink and drive

kippy

The day has no religious significance for me and I'm not on speaking terms with a good few members of my family so I tend to have to spend Xmas in exile. So I'd definitely love to be able to sit in the pub with a pint of Guinness and a good book on Xmas day... It would certainly beat sitting in my office and posting here which is what I've been doing for the past few years.

Sorry to hear that, perhaps it would be a good time to make up with your family.

User45701

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

kippy wrote:

Sorry to hear that, perhaps it would be a good time to make up with your family.

I have to say its not very fair for anyone who does not know the specifics to say that.....

oRlyYaRly

I think they should be closed on Xmas but should definitely be allowed to open on Good Friday.

de5p0i1er

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Bar staff need a day off too. Let them spend a day with there family, we can go one day drinking at home.

kippy

have to say its not very fair for anyone who does not know the specifics to say that.....

Fair enough.
But it is a good time to mend bridges.
People arent around forever.

Tazz T

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Xmas Day shoiuld be a day for family, and the pubs being closed, empty streets etc makes it feel a bit diferent. Plus the subsequent Boxing Day session makes up for it.

But as for Good Friday - that's just silly. It's a Bank Holiday weekend and we wanna have fun.

Jimoslimos

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Tazz T wrote:

Plus the subsequent Boxing Day session makes up for it.

Tell me...when does this strange festival of Boxing Day occur? I don't think I'd be up for another session after St. Stephens Day

GeorgeBailey

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Jimoslimos wrote:

Tell me...when does this strange festival of Boxing Day occur? I don't think I'd be up for another session after St. Stephens Day

I also call it boxing day. I presume all you good catholics who get their knickers in a twist and insist it be called St Stephen's day spend the day praying and going to mass?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Cianos wrote:

But why cant we make the right decision ourselves? What is it about Irish people that means our licensing laws have to be far more strict than a lot of countries? Are we less mature, less capable of our European neighbours? Or, what impact do the strict licensing laws have on the perceived 'epidemic' of (binge) drinking culture? The answer always seems to be to make the leash even tighter, but I am for the opposite approach.

And yes your right this is going slightly off topic now:o

Becase Irish people are simply not that responsible. Ever been in the centre
of any Irish town at 2am on Saturday morning? How many people have been killed on the roads this year as a result of speeding/drunk driving?

Are we less mature? As regard our attitude to alcohol? Absolutely.
Do we need these laws? Absolutely.

Should the leash be loosened? Well, how would that teach responsibility?

Mossy Monk

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Becase Irish people are simply not that responsible. Ever been in the centre
of any Irish town at 2am on Saturday morning?

this happens because everyone leaves pubs/clubs at the same time imo

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

How many people have been killed on the roads this year as a result of speeding/drunk driving?

this doesn't happen anywhere except for Ireland :rolleyes:

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Are we less mature? As regard our attitude to alcohol? Absolutely.
Do we need these laws? Absolutely.

seen what it's like with more liberal laws? i beklieve in the uk when the 24 hour drinking was brought into the UK, violence on the street cut down by some bit. why do tell, can't that happen here?

petes

Mossy Monk wrote:

seen what it's like with more liberal laws? i beklieve in the uk when the 24 hour drinking was brought into the UK, violence on the street cut down by some bit. why do tell, can't that happen here?

Exactly. With 24 hour drinking, people will go out later, leave at different times and you won't have most of the drunk people congregating in the same place at the same time.

robinph

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

petes wrote:

Exactly. With 24 hour drinking, people will go out later, leave at different times and you won't have most of the drunk people congregating in the same place at the same time.

Although most of the 24 hour licenses that were applied for in the UK went to the likes of Tesco's and not to pubs and clubs, the new law does make it easier for them to get slightly extended hours as well I think which then staggers when people are all turfed out onto the street which reduces the chances of incidents occurring.

Cabaal

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Pubs should remain closed and infact should close more often, really no need for them to be open so much, far too many people spent time away from their familys and its a bad culture to have!

Plus people working in pubs need more time off

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would Go

Mossy Monk wrote:

this happens because everyone leaves pubs/clubs at the same time imo



this doesn't happen anywhere except for Ireland :rolleyes:



seen what it's like with more liberal laws? i beklieve in the uk when the 24 hour drinking was brought into the UK, violence on the street cut down by some bit. why do tell, can't that happen here?

....so nothing to do with going out with the attitude "I am going to get soooo ****ing trolled tonight!",eh?

More liberal laws work ABROAD because people are more responsible ABROAD. NOT the other way around.

scojones

I Believe They Should Be Open - I Would`nt Go

Cabaal wrote:

Pubs should remain closed and infact should close more often, really no need for them to be open so much, far too many people spent time away from their familys and its a bad culture to have!

Plus people working in pubs need more time off

Who are you to dictate how other people should live their lives?
Sorry If I appear pedantic, but seriously closing a pub so that people spend time with their families is ridiculous. Pubs should be open 24/7. If they were, there would be no need for these crazy binge drinking sessions.

kippy

Who are you to dictate how other people should live their lives?

I think the thread is going to bring up opinins whereby people say how they think people should live their lives.
We are told and regulated every day in how to run our lives. Its part and parcel of civilisation.
Kippy

Cianos

Other - Please State

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Becase Irish people are simply not that responsible. Ever been in the centre
of any Irish town at 2am on Saturday morning?

If you have thousands of people in the same place at the same time, most of them locked, herded out by bouncers and hitting the fresh air for the first time after necking a couple of pints at last orders, piling into the local chipper queueing for half an hour to get a batter burger, its going to kick off.

On the other hand if you have people leaving the pub when they feel like going home, in dribs and drabs and in no panic or rush, be it at 10pm or 2am, with a lot less people on the streets, which of the two scenarios would lead to more trouble?

Are we less mature? As regard our attitude to alcohol? Absolutely.
Do we need these laws? Absolutely.

Should the leash be loosened? Well, how would that teach responsibility?

The reason we are less mature is because we are being treated like children. If you are constantly treated like a child, you will start to act like a child. What would be so terrible about allowing people to make their own decisions about drinking? Without closing times are people going to go to the pub on Friday, and stay there til 5am Monday morning? Hardly the case. Whether you like to believe it or not people have a sense of responsibility even when drink is involved. People are still going to go home and get up on Monday morning and go to work.