Medieval total war 2 - release iminent!

Zillah

pimpy_c wrote:

And the lesson to be learned from this tragic tale? Make sure the campaign battles have a time lmit OR be sure to always build some siege weapons, even if you're planning to starve them out.

What possible reason would you have had to turn on no-limit in the first place?

Ri_Nollaig

Zillah wrote:

What possible reason would you have had to turn on no-limit in the first place?

i remember in rome there was a bug where sometimes you had around 10 minutes to win a battle with over 2000 troops on either side...

humanji

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

i remember in rome there was a bug where sometimes you had around 10 minutes to win a battle with over 2000 troops on either side...

And you had trouble with that? *tut**tut* Amateur!

Sand

I found no limit a life saver for the seiges. Troops could be absolutely shagging knackered by the time they got over the wall, killed the wall guards, chased down the routers and marched in to the square - to fight what was usually the generals unbreakable unit+friends.

Against the clock you had to throw in tired troops to win before the deadline, taking heavy casualties. Without the deadline you could rest up for a few minutes, maneuver cavalry around town to hit them in the rear and sweep up very easily.

Ive got the game, and I have to say Im puzzled over the value of the Merchant agent - 550 up front, open to assassination/buy outs, and the payout per turn is something like 20 or so. It would take 28 turns to break even, and even after the profit is only 20*turns until killed/elimintated. Ive got one or two out there that I trained just to see what they do but Im not dazzled at this point. Any other economic building, or even military unit would be a better use of 550 imo - Im assuming the number you train helps attract merchant guilds though, certainly the assassins guild loves me given all the murders my best assassin is carrying out.

I like the Crusades, they work better now - Movement is still fairly slow, really need a navy to get there before you die of old age.

Im enjoying my game though, playing as France, King Phillip the Crusader has taken Jeruselam (the Papacy loves me), Im waging very successful simultaneous wars against the English, Germans, Milanese and various Council targets, and building up infrastructure at a good rate. Not sure about the battles though - speed is very, very fast - no account taken of the weight of armour and weapons.

Zillah

Sand wrote:

I found no limit a life saver for the seiges. Troops could be absolutely shagging knackered by the time they got over the wall, killed the wall guards, chased down the routers and marched in to the square - to fight what was usually the generals unbreakable unit+friends.

Against the clock you had to throw in tired troops to win before the deadline, taking heavy casualties.

Uh, to me thats fun and realistic. Its cinematic, you can't just call off the siege, have some tea, a nap and then get on with it. The sun is setting and you can't fight in the dark!

Well, you can but thats besides the point...

Ri_Nollaig

anyone got any good tips on improving income, i am fighting a two front war against france (almost beat them only 3 cities left) and milian, but i cant finish either as i dont have enough troops and i dont have enough troops as i dont have enough money...

Canis Lupus

That's why u don't fight a two front war....

Ri_Nollaig

Canis Lupus wrote:

That's why u don't fight a two front war....

i had no choice, they attacked me. still i have defeated france now (they came begging for a ceasefire ) and milian are not attacking as much as they used to.

BlitzKrieg

currently in a pissing match with France over Caen, (they keep attacking, getting their asses whooped, apologising, then attacking again.) The pope loves me cause I sent a diplomat to him and actually gave him my last middle eastern provence (more harm then good, with the mongals running around.) so now I have a cardinal in position to be made pope if he dies, problem is France have something like 4 cardinals on the council and 1 of them are up for votes, so I think I need to start training up an assassin and start making them disapear.

Timans

I NEEEED this game.

It sounds fantastic. I thought it was all deathmatches. You take control of an empire! Is there actually storylines at all?

humanji

BlitzKrieg wrote:

currently in a pissing match with France over Caen, (they keep attacking, getting their asses whooped, apologising, then attacking again.) The pope loves me cause I sent a diplomat to him and actually gave him my last middle eastern provence (more harm then good, with the mongals running around.) so now I have a cardinal in position to be made pope if he dies, problem is France have something like 4 cardinals on the council and 1 of them are up for votes, so I think I need to start training up an assassin and start making them disapear.

I had that problem with the french. My solution was to wipe out the French completely! They didn't attack me after the.

Zillah

Timans wrote:

I NEEEED this game.

It sounds fantastic. I thought it was all deathmatches. You take control of an empire! Is there actually storylines at all?

No in game storylines, but theres more than enough ingredients for it to feel like there is. Everyone develops their own stories as things happen.

BlitzKrieg

humanji wrote:

I had that problem with the french. My solution was to wipe out the French completely! They didn't attack me after the.

I've gone for a new policy. I slapped them by taking all their fortresses but one. and that single remaining fortress is in Boardeux and my territory cuts right pass that to the med, dividing the remaining French cities from their fortress.


But I aint going to finish them off?

why?

Cause Sicily and Denmark are the two largest european powers and the remaining French states make a great Buffer zone between them and myself. I'm now racing to upgrade all my cities until I can discover the new world and from there I will conquer all the territories I need before turning my Attention to Jerusalum (which is held by the Mongols the largest faction in the game.)

Timans

Just got the game. Installing it now.

Cannot wait, Haven't played an RTS (or a PC Game) in years.

I'm going to rule the world!

BlitzKrieg

not if the french beat you to it.

Timans

The French? Don't make me laugh.

Sand

Good news, the Church is a equal opportunities employer and I've just got my "secretly female" Cardinal elected to become Pope.

Diplomacy is really dissapointing me though - same old AI with its face knocked to crap staggering round the ring shouting "didnt knock me down ray, didnt knock me down", unable to accept reality that its losing - very, very badly. They should give thanks that Im offering them a ceasefire, not get all insulted and huffy. They do all that work, and they still build a diplomatic/strategic AI so stupid that it kills any immersion. Cant really hold out much hope for modding fixing it because Creative keep so much of the game under wraps.

tuxy

ya, so is diplomacy totally pointless?
I have never achieved anything good from it.

Sand

Seems to be, it was totally pointless in RTW, and it doesnt appear to have changed in M2TW. Seems to be that if you share a border with someone they will sooner or later declare war on you, fight it very badly for dozens of turns, and make peace only as some sort of random extremely rare event that bears no relation to the course of the war.

Witness the HRE - Ive been fighting them ever since a 3 unit stack of theirs bumped into a 2 unit stack of mine on the border of one of my provinces. I won that battle, and Ive won every battle for the next 30 odd turns. Ive taken Frankfurt, Bologna, Staufen and theyre down to feck all. Ive been taking it very very easy on them [my conquests are concentrated elsewhere] and offered them peace every now and then as Id prefer them as a buffer state with Poland/Hungary. They always point blank refuse and its always viewed as "very demanding". Pointlessly stupid. With Alpha Centauri the AI was smart enough to realise when it was beaten and surrender and that game is 7-8 years old.

All my neighbours have gone down this route and been beaten down with the exception of Portugal/Spain who are probably too busy fighting each other very badly to bother me with their ineptitude. Thers also a marraige alliance between myself and Spain, but I doubt that has much to do with it.

BlitzKrieg

Ive been taking it very very easy on them [my conquests are concentrated elsewhere] and offered them peace every now and then as Id prefer them as a buffer state with Poland/Hungary.

I have the exact same problem, except its with France.

Though I have got it that they dont attack me anymore and at one point coerced them into being allies.

It seems to come down to the family. If you fight one family member, him and his sons will never make peace with you.

I had to assassinate the entire French Royal family to get new blood in there, then they made an alliance which lasted about 20 turns before they tried to fight me again (this time though it was because it was either me or the insanely huge Denmark and Sicily)

Now I have the French pinned with only one fortress and 3 cities, their fortress is surrounded by my lands (its bourdeux and my territory stretchs right to the mediterranian smack bang in the middle of french territory.)


There's no doubt the diplomacy system is a pain, but I find if you bug them every turn about one thing or another you slowly turn them over to your side and if your at war you need to kill the entire family line.

I am most disapointed that you cant force another nation to collapse. I assassinated the entire french royal family and they just kept taking in new blood from soldiers, really annoying. Also where are my princessess? Cant find any to use.

amp

Enjoying my first campaign as England. Took Wales and eventually Dublin fairly quickly and then conquered all the northern provinces of europe up to and including Hamburg.

Biggest battle to date was when the Holy Roman Empire decided it wanted Hamburg and sent up a full army with Emperor Leo in charge. I was sending over Prince Robert (heir to the thrown and my most experienced general) to re-enforce the minimal troops holding Hamburg against the siege when my King decided to pop his clogs and Bob becomes king. I know I need a good general against Leo so I let Bob go for it.

The battle started and I kept Bob at the side of my main army of peasants and assorted infantry with his cavalry guard along with another unit of cavalry. Another two cavalry mirrored them on the other side.

Then I noticed that I was up against catapults with those bastarding fireballs. Both cavalry teams pegged it up the side in a flanking move. When they were level with Leo's Imperial guard I sent two mailed cavalry teams into the catapults as I told the infantry to run or die. Of course my l33t general took a ****ing arrow to the face on his way in but thankfully my shock cavalry took out the Holy Roman Emperor.

With their catapults unmanned what remained of my cavalry fisted his infantry from the rear just as my mine were engaging and while I took a lot of losses the HRE understand that I am not to be ****ed with. After killing their boss and destroying their main offensive army I haven't heard from them in a while.

I've been nibbling at the French. They occasionally attack and I take out their army and attack a key town, then they send in a diplomat and I demand the key town I'm attacking which they usually give me. I wouldn't mind pushing through the French and eventually taking the Vatican City, because the Pope is annoying and I presume that if I take the VC I get to be Pope. I don't really want to go to much more east, apart from the Danes, because of the Mongol menace and the fact that I like Poland, they haven't attacked me yet and we are allies.

Whatever I do, I need to get a mediterrean port. I will crush the durka durka's !

All in all the main reason I picked up this game is because of reading this thread. And I'm glad I did, it's as addictive as Civ but without any of that pesky non-combat crap.

Please continue the tales of battle.


P.s. The key with cavalry is to flank and disengage, flank and disengage. Don't let them get stuck in a brawl. That's what peasants are for.

BlitzKrieg

and eventually taking the Vatican City, because the Pope is annoying and I presume that if I take the VC I get to be Pope.

what you get is every christian nation declaring war on you.


*ouchies*


I find when going to war is to focus on their fortressess and put cavalry in your own cities etc.

If you take their fortressess the enemy loose alot of their momentum because they can only build weak infantry and catapults, which if you have come cav in every city are useless because you send the cav out to chase the catapults away.

You can actually turn entire nations into buffer zones by doing this. I have so far quelled 3 different nations into being nothing more then a nuisence by cutting thier fortressess down and leaving their cities, the result is they send a pissy catapult/crossbowman army every 10 or so turns but nothing ever dangerous.

amp

BlitzKrieg wrote:

what you get is every christian nation declaring war on you.


*ouchies*

O rly? Ok, well I'll just have to pretty much control Europe before I do that then.

CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF MEDIVIAL TOTAL WAR 2!

tuxy

Sand wrote:

Ive taken Frankfurt, Bologna, Staufen and theyre down to feck all. Ive been taking it very very easy on them [my conquests are concentrated elsewhere] and offered them peace every now and then as Id prefer them as a buffer state with Poland/Hungary..

This is how i made buffer states.
I have taken France and i want to concentrate on taking Spain , but the large Denmark faction to the east wont stop attacking so my forces are too divided to take Spain. I hold off Denmark for about 80 turns. This is really annoying neither of us is making progress, so i forget about Spain for a while and take all four border states on the east , handing each one over to the papal states as a gift. Problem solved all catholic states to my east will never attack me again.
Stupid but it works.

Sand

handing each one over to the papal states as a gift.

Thats a damn good idea actually - Papal States will probably never attack and no one will attack them. Only issue is will Pope accept? I remember being unable to give provinces to people in RTW - theyd always refuse great offers on the grounds that either they couldnt give me anything for it [g.i.f.t. you twits] or that Id just steal it back [g.i.f.t again twits]

BlitzKrieg

they accept easily.

I was about to loose Antioch to the turks, gave it the papal states who then declared a crusade agains turkey after turkey took it from them. The result everyone was too busy fighting turkey to notice me slapping france around.

Instant Karma

Yep, really enjoying this game, its highly addictive.

At the moment I am playing the MTW2: Regnum Dei - All Factions version 1.7.7 Premium Mod, makes some basic changes like making each turn 6months rather than the default 2 years, means you can develop your generals a little more.

Anyway, Playing as the scots right now, a good few turns in and have managed to Blitz Carenavon and York before the English got started, then moved quickly down to Nottingham which I managed to take with the help of some mercs due to a small garrison. My King was resupplying in Carenavon for an attack on London. The English still had a full stack army roaming around but after scouting I was relieved to see almost all pesants and town militia.

Still, my prince was holed up in Notingham with about 500 men, mostly mercs by this stage and the english started a seige. I started to rush my leader and whatever he had left to relieve the seige but before he got there the english assaulted. I fully expected to lose the fight as I was outnumbered over 2 to 1 but thought if I could make them pay a heavy price my King could mop up next turn. When the map loaded I noticed they had only built 3 rams and no other seige equipment, so placed all my archers on the walls facing them and started the battle. They started by moving one ram ahead of their main force so I had one unit of border horse within my walls so sent them out and they slaughtered the crew, and pulled back. I tried the same with the second ram and altho I stopped it my horse unit got massacared because the ram was right in the midst of the main force..

I then made a mistake by sending my general out in an attempt to stop their last ram but the enemy were too close and I could not get the gate closed behind them, the Prince just about escaped his foolishness, with a few bodyguard left alive, but the english were now running through the gate. My spearmen were just about holding the line and my archers were almost spent, in the end it was a single unit of Irish kerns that stopped the last of the peasants from comming through and with that the english were routed and a famous victory was won.

After that it was simple to move the king to take london and move for inverness and dublin to secure the entire british isles for my faction. I did get excommunicated for my aggression toward the english, so missed the first crusade but thats not a great deal at this stage.

After securing teh isles I turned my eye toward northern france, and was able to take the entire costal region from rennes to antwerp, without much hassle. The danes are connstantly attacking from the east and the spanish who are really strong have pushed right up to Angers. The english and french seem happy to leave me be for the time being. The most fun I'm having at the moment is with a full stack army I had from the beginning, they have been engaging the spanish and have won countless battles, so many infact, half of the army has between 2 and 3 gold chevrons while the rest are up to 3 silver. My aim is to have an entire army of full valour units. I'm using a lot of noble archers, some highland nobles, a unit of pikemen and a lot of Cav for flanking, with 3 units of kerns who i use to disrupt enemy formations before pulling back. After every 3 or 4 battles I have to pull back and retrain in Caen but the annoying part is I have to ferry the kerns to dublin for retraining. Still the fact that this army has so much experience now is really worth the hassle.

Ri_Nollaig

any mods out yet that let you play as the irish ?

Sand

any mods out yet that let you play as the irish ?

Nope, and I wouldnt say there will be as Im not aware of any Irish TW modders that would do it, and foreign teams wouldnt be interested because Ireland did relatively little other than get gradually conquered by England - The RTR team took the Britons out of RTR for similar reasons.

Your best bet would be to take the Scottish faction and alter their starting positions in the campaign file.

Theres some interesting bugs in the battle AI that Ive seen in two battles recently - One of the younger family members was invading England and besieging Nottingham with a mixture of mercs and badly depleted units (I had only intended taking London, but then decided to finish the job, which was a bit hasty). As expected the small English army beseiging London returned immediately to relieve Nottingham. Battle went as expected initially - the relief force ran straight at my outnumbered little band whilst the Nottingham garrison slowly entered on my right flank. Sent forward some welsh spears to pin the relief force, then flanked it with my feudal knights - insta rout/messy death ensued for the English.

Turned the battle line then quickly to face the main English army which was much, much, much heavier than my own - they had something like 200 mailed knights, 120 or so feudal footmen, and 4-5 supporting units, led by the English king so I was considering retreat given I only had 50 or so feudal knights and about 100 fedual footmen and about 200 welsh spears to counter - buggered I thought. Luckily the English had a unit of Longbowmen.

Dont fully understand it, but the AI isnt clear on how to use missle troops or when its smart to use them and when its not. It could have simply steamrollered me with the knights - didnt have enough high morale troops to take the charge of that many knights - but instead it stopped the entire line and sent forward its lone unit of longbowmen to shoot at me. I had two units of mercenary crossbowmen and a unit of catapults so I was happy to trade missle fire, especially as my mercs were in loose formation. I shot up a good chunk of his army with bolts/flaming missles until I ran out of ammo, losing only 60 crossbowmen in the process, then charged them and after some very dicey minutes of 2 or 3 big melees (they still outnumbered me pretty heavily) routed the entire English army and took Nottingham on my turn.

Had a similar bug when fighting the Sicilians in southern Italy shortly afterwards, I got a little overconfident and sent King Louis the Merciless (10 star general) down to deal with them with a large merc army after they started blockading Ajacio and wandering through northern italy with their main stack. Unfortunately I miscalculated just how strong their main stack was - got trapped and had to fight with the PC only giving me 1:2 odds against, as again they had the king, his two sons and much, much heavier troops. Happily, in good honest TW tradition, I found a really big hill and sat on it. They marched up to the bottom of it, and then made the same stupid move the English made - sent out their 3 or 4 peasant/muslim bowmen to have a missle contest when they had a huge advantage in melee/shock troops. Again, I happily engaged with my 4 units of merc xbows in loose formation - with a nice height advantage to boot. I ignored his bowmen and basically slaughtered his standing, stationary armys heavy foot and knights - lost 120 x-bows, but wiped out 85% of his force - the strongest troops. The AI finally figured they were buggered and turned to run - I chased them and slaughtered them all - captured both the Kings sons, though the King himself made it off with 2 bodyguards. The war though is over, all thats left is to mop up their provinces before the Pope gets antsy, but shes my Pope so I expect some leeway.

Right now, missle troops appear to be a liability for the AI because it will always get into a skirmish phase even if it gives the enemy a fair fight, or even a local advantage. Its dissapointing the battle AI is still bugged/poor - but apparently creative are planning to open the files that govern battle AI behaviour to modders so maybe there is hope for improvements.

spank_inferno

Been playing for nearly a month now and its proving quite good.
Not the stellar leap forward that I was hoping for though. The battle map AI even on "very hard" is still muck.

Merchants - Why so much money when they will be assasinated within 10 turns? Sucessful assasinations seem very random. Soldiers still likely to run into walls etc and other niggly things.
Campaign map though is much improved, historical battles are good too.

I'm wondering if anyone can answer the following historical notes:
- Was the Pavice crossbowman as effective in reality as he is in the game?
- The city of Milan couldnt possibly have been a match for france or HRE

also has anyone heard of any patch coming out soon?