Shell to Sea versus the Gardaí

Akrasia

Vegeta wrote:

You have to be kidding. That's an oxymoron, breaking the law in a peaceful manner, you should do stand up.v

Are you seriously suggesting that all legal activities are peaceful and all illegal activities are violent?

If I don't pay my tv license am I being violent?
Give me a break.

sovtek

Vegeta wrote:

You have to be kidding. That's an oxymoron, breaking the law in a peaceful manner, you should do stand up.

You need to look up oxymoron.

What a joke and disgusting attitude to have
You're basically saying protesters should get special treatment, so much for equal rights.

I have not said that.

I am 100% with bonkey on this one, both sides should get whats coming to them

Yes they should get what's coming to them. People that block a road should get what's coming to them (arrested and fined). Gardai that beat people should get whats coming to them(a custodial sentence and a huge investigation into the gardai). People that attack gardai unprovoked get what's coming to them.

EDIT: If they were truly protesting "peacefully" why is the garda presence needed

Thats a good question. Every peaceful protest I've been to has had garda there unfortunetly. I often wonder the same. Every time I've been worried about violence at a peaceful protest it was because the gardai were there.
(ummm sorry I'm not sure of the correct pluralization of garda/gardai)

RedPlanet

I think it's misplaced anger, the protestors are protesting the wrong venue.
They should be targeting those politicians that signed, sealed, and delivered our natural resources for feck all.

sovtek

RedPlanet wrote:

I think it's misplaced anger, the protestors are protesting the wrong venue.
They should be targeting those politicians that signed, sealed, and delivered our natural resources for feck all.

They should be doing both actually.

Manic Moran

Maybe the Gardai should get a few of these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qws_ZPONttU&mode=related&search=

Warn them once. Warn them twice. Warn them thrice. Then have at it.

[Edit: I have no idea why that was flagged 18s. I don't recall any language or anything]

NTM

Manic Moran

Just watched the RTE footage.

That was a baton charge? The Gards need to take some lessons from other forces as to how to be violent. Seemed as civilised a baton charge as I've ever seen. For starters, charging usually implies moving quickly. The Gardai walked forward. Plenty of time to get out of the way.

NTM

Rock Climber

People should be posting here with fact not hearsay.

Having seen the news,the van incident did happen and the baton charge was mild,though one dude did end up in hospital.

I see sinn féin are involved... now why doesnt that surprise me,the shell to sea campaign should dump them.

I heard A SF td Martin Ferris on the last word claiming that the van incident was a make up... untill he was told he should get his facts straight also,it did happen and was on the RTÉ news.

Some protesters tried to push a van with a woman steering it,into the Garda line.The Gardaí had to smash the window to get the woman out.

It's little wonder they had to batton charge.
Batton charging an aggitated crowd is within the law by the way sovtek.

mike65

Rock Climber , that woman was an aggitator not an unwilling battering ram!

Mike.

Ray777

What the holier-than-thou "the law is the law" crowd don't seem to understand is that, when faced with the intransigence of Shell and the government, civil disobedience is the only remaining option for the "hippies" "nimbys" or whatever else you wish to call them.

In times like this, "Legally wrong" and "morally wrong" are two completely different things.

Akrasia

mike65 wrote:

Rock Climber , that woman was an aggitator not an unwilling battering ram!

Mike.

battering ram? The car was not even moving when the cops smashed the windows and dragged her out.

If you want to talk about dangerous driving, I was at a protest once where the cops drove at high speed at protesters on a dark night in a successful attempt to induce panic. People who fell when running away were arrested.

faceman

Forgive me ignorance but im only really following the corrib thingie today. What is history on this? I know about the original protester jailed but whats the sp with the previous history?

Btw, its in the constitution that everyone has the right to go to work, therefore the protestors no matter how peaceful it was, were depriving the shell employees of their constitutional right to go to work.

civdef

What the holier-than-thou "the law is the law" crowd don't seem to understand is that, when faced with the intransigence of Shell and the government, civil disobedience is the only remaining option for the "hippies" "nimbys" or whatever else you wish to call them.

Fair enough, that's their choice to make, but they need to be willing to face the consequences of their choice to violate the laws of the lands and accept that they may end up getting arrested/charge/twatted with a baton or whatever.

For the people going on about the "baton charge" I recommend looking up videos of the CRS in action for some comparison.

the_syco

Ray777 wrote:

In times like this, "Legally wrong" and "morally wrong" are two completely different things.

This type of statment can justify eveything the IRA did to anyone from its creation up to the present day. Knee-capping is "legally wrong", but some see it as "morally right".

Akrasia wrote:

battering ram? The car was not even moving when the cops smashed the windows and dragged her out.

VAN. The VAN was being pushed at the Gardai. They then smashed the window to open the door. No doubt you expected them to ask nicely, as all she was doing was steering a four wheel battering ram at them?:rolleyes:

K.O.Kiki

Discussing politics on Boards is pointless -- people can act like dickheads thanks to the anonymity of the internet...

That said, I am disappointed that it has come to this. Using violence to solve issues as... trivial as this is just really backwards.
Way to go, Celtic Tiger -- look at the riches you have brought us!

*this is an opinion piece

constitutionus

]just out of interest, where the ****s bertie? he's the one along with ray"im so corrupt they actually had enough dirt to jail me when even haughey got off"burke who got us in this position in the first place!

be nice to see the so called seekers of truth in the media ask him what he thinks of the fruits of his labour on this one. remember boys and girls the exact same terms and conditions shell have been given by the government are open to any other oil or gas conscern that shows an intrest so this could be you someday.

by the way for those that asked go to the RTE website and down load the news and you'll clearly see two gardai deliberatly throw a guy over a barrier into a ditch. makes ya feel warm inside doesnt it? still least they kept their numbers on this time

*EDIT* by the way, can someone tell me what macdowels scuttering on about in regards to sinn feinn? Dr micheal ring of FG was there as was trevor sargent of the greens, michael D higgins of Labour, Joe higgins of the socialists and others all over the last 5 weeks. is he saying these guys are high ranking sinn fein activists posing as sleeper agents in other parties? in fact the only parties not to have members show up are the collalition ones of FF and the PDs.

oscarBravo

RedPlanet wrote:

I think it's misplaced anger, the protestors are protesting the wrong venue.
They should be targeting those politicians that signed, sealed, and delivered our natural resources for feck all.

Good point. If they disrupted traffic in the vicinity of Leinster House for weeks on end, and tried to prevent the good people of Dublin 2 from going to work every day, I suspect the situation would have been resolved a lot sooner and more decisively.

Manic Moran

constitutionus wrote:

by the way for those that asked go to the RTE website and down load the news and you'll clearly see two gardai deliberatly throw a guy over a barrier into a ditch.

If you're talking about the guy at the left in the last few seconds, it looks to me that he jumped. (Rolled forward) Watch the stance of the Gards, a 'push' would lean more forward.

It's one way of getting out of being arrested, I guess.

NTM

Bob the Builder

I am from mayo myself and I am completely neutral.

As far as the people of Ireland are concerned this is a problem between Shell and the Shell-to-sea campaign, with the recent involvement of cops
~They're wrong! ...actually the government are the cause of the problem, selling precious gas fields to Shell for near nothing just to line their own pockets.

All Shell to Sea asked for was that the route of the pipeline to change, and then everything became a helium balloon, with rumors, etc. spreading like fire and gas.

It's a pitty that everything was represented in such a way but thats the way RTÉ and all ther media work..

K.O.Kiki

Manic Moran wrote:

If you're talking about the guy at the left in the last few seconds, it looks to me that he jumped. (Rolled forward) Watch the stance of the Gards, a 'push' would lean more forward.

It's one way of getting out of being arrested, I guess.

NTM

I very clearly saw at least 2 people get thrown off the road by uniformed gardai on 6.01 -- kinda like you'd get 2 or more guys throwing another guy into a pool. Only much less fun.

Rock Climber

I'm changing the title of this thread as its non factual and mis leading.
Also the police in this country are not known as the police they are the Gardaí.

constitutionus

nevf wrote:

I am from mayo myself and I am completely neutral.

As far as the people of Ireland are concerned this is a problem between Shell and the Shell-to-sea campaign, with the recent involvement of cops
~They're wrong! ...actually the government are the cause of the problem, selling precious gas fields to Shell for near nothing just to line their own pockets.

All Shell to Sea asked for was that the route of the pipeline to change, and then everything became a helium balloon, with rumors, etc. spreading like fire and gas.

It's a pitty that everything was represented in such a way but thats the way RTÉ and all ther media work..

i posted recently questioning where bertie was and low and behold he turns up on the 9oclock news commentating on the issue and guess what, not one question was put to him about his role in the situation in regards to the deal that got us in this drama. good ol' RTE, always thinking about that pension !:rolleyes:

Rock Climber

Hang on a second,that deal was done decades ago at a time when the technology meant getting that gas would have been so expensive that a "north sea" cut for the government would have meant no chance of exploration at all.

I agree the deal shouldnt have been done.
But I think hindsight shouldnt be used to come to that conclusion.

It's only since recent wars and very high demand has risen energy prices that Shell have seen this project as viable.
It's more than viable now of course.

The point I'm making is that its not as simple as you are making out.

Hindsight is a great thing but it isn't really.

A Dub in Glasgo

Rock Climber wrote:

I'm changing the title of this thread as its non factual and mis leading.
Also the police in this country are not known as the police they are the Gardaí.

Maybe you should change it to

'Police batons versus Protestors'

Is the above factual and accurate?

Manic Moran

K.O.Kiki wrote:

I very clearly saw at least 2 people get thrown off the road by uniformed gardai on 6.01 -- kinda like you'd get 2 or more guys throwing another guy into a pool. Only much less fun.

One of those incidents wasn't on the 1pm news, and certainly was a case of the protestor being unceremoniously dumped off the road all right.

Not that I'm shedding any tears over it, mind.

NTM

magick

yeah feck this


bate em bate em with shhhtick


so what they threw em over a wall !?

i just feel sorry they threw em over a wall that on the other side wasnt full of rapist foxes who mate with them then kill em



peaceful protest..........me feck on that !

Ronan|Raven

Just watched the clip, good to see the crusty brigade out in force, there goes any credibility the protest originally had, their usual rent a mob mentality on display. I am the last person to defend the Gardai due to some of my experiences with them over the years but what were they meant to do? Let the van get pushed into them? As stated you can hear on the video the order to clear the road being issued to the protestors then the call to remove them. As for "throwing him over a wall" they, from what it looked like dumped him pretty damn easily over the barrier before the car he was blocking drove past.

mike65

The Garda should take the names of everyone there and see if they are collecting dole, if so they should seeking employment rather than travelling wesht for a spot of agitation. If they are in gainful employment does thier employer know they took the day off?

Mike.

mike65

Here's what the student anachists and scroungers on indymedia make of it.


This comment caught my eye.

Only a few days prior to the arrest and virtual internment of the Rossport 5 Lord Oxburgh was able to confidently predict to his shareholders the unruly Mayo farmers would soon be dealt with . During this period one of their locally hired thugs , employed by one of McDowells PD buddies . apparently took it upon himself to stalk and intimidate Maura Harrington in the dead of night . Odd behaviour for a mere security guard

Actionable? Or does apparently get the poster "out of jail"

Mike.

Nuttzz

brings a whole new meaning to clubbing in Mayo

Rock Climber

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Maybe you should change it to

'Police batons versus Protestors'

Is the above factual and accurate?

No that would be leading...

Just like if say I changed it to Republicans orchestrate mob-Gardaí baton charge.

Lets leave the anti establishment biases elsewhere thank you.