Scared of theism

MrJoeSoap

John Wine wrote:

I think what is silly here, is the definition of extremists and fundamentalist keep changing. I thought atheists were supposed to be hyper logical.

Well why don't you offer your opinion then, and stop being patronising.

aidan24326

John Wine wrote:

I think what is silly here, is the definition of extremists and fundamentalist keep changing. I thought atheists were supposed to be hyper logical.

How do they keep changing? What do you mean? I've already loosely described what a fundamentalist attitude is (unless anyone else wants to improve on that) it's a strict and literal adherence to a set of principles or to religious dogma in the case of religion. Not all priests are strict and literal adherents to dogma, some of the more progressively minded have embraced modern thinking on many matters, and rejected some of the more outdated ideas within church teachings. That means they would not be described as fundamentalist. You seem to be confusing all religious belief with fundamentalism.

John Wine

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well why don't you offer your opinion then, and stop being patronising.

Ok this is why I think atheists get freaked out.
Atheists don't believe in their ancesteral religion, it's not logical enough, there's no evidence, they look at other religion and see the same lack of logic or faith.
Theists, can't deal with being meaningless or having no purpose in life, they find their ancestoral religion comforting. It is an emotionally positive experience.
Fundies, feel really good about how comforting they find it. To the point they have to remind people about it or share it with people.

Atheists, however still have the feeling meaningless. They may say things, like I love nature, I love my wife, my children, this meaning is enough for me.
They may say many things give their life meaning and those things do give their life meaning.
But if they are accepting their is no underlying creator of the human race, then there is no purpose to human race. We are here purely by a long series of accidents.
This is an issue that is naturally uncomfortable for people to take, even if it is correct. This is because we are a very emotional species.
Now, I think atheists don't like being reminded of this nothingness and hence this is why fundies freak them out. Fundies remind atheists that they (the atheists) belief their life has a degree of meaningless.

I can't see any other reason why logical people would get freaked out simply because a "gullible" person has a different opinion.

The second thing that freaks atheists out is that they know they can be proofed wrong, however they also know they cannot be proofed right. It is a tentative position.

The third reason as discussed in this thread, is if fundies can get into political power. However,
this is quite unlikely in this state. It's also a macro issue, concerning society not just them.
It's the micro issues, (i.e. the other two) that really freak them out.



Hope I'm not freaking people out with these thoughts...

Dades

At last!

Firstly nobody here said they were "freaked" by religion, only perhaps by fundamentalists. And the reason atheists don't like about fundamentalists is that fundies basically want to spread ignorance.

You patently aren't comfortable with the idea that there is no meaning to life (in the religious sense) - therefore you have projected your fears onto those that follow that idea.

John Wine wrote:

The second thing that freaks atheists out is that they know they can be proofed wrong, however they also know they cannot be proofed right. It is a tentative position.

And don't forgot holy water - that burns us.

MrJoeSoap

John Wine wrote:

Atheists don't believe in their ancesteral religion, it's not logical enough, there's no evidence, they look at other religion and see the same lack of logic or faith.

Pretty much yeah.

John Wine wrote:

Theists, can't deal with being meaningless or having no purpose in life, the find their ancestoral religion comforting.

Probably the case I would imagine.

John Wine wrote:

Fundies, feel really good about how comforting they find it. To the point they have to remind people about it or share it with people.

Not too sure, a fundamentalist is more someone who takes the scriptures literally, not someone who tries to spread their beliefs, though I'm sure the two often conflict.

John Wine wrote:

Atheists, however still have the feeling meaningless. They may say things, like I love nature, I love my wife, my children, this meaning is enough for me. The may say many things give their life meaning.

True, except for the 'meaningless' part, I don't feel meaningless. The opposite, if the truth be known.

John Wine wrote:

But if they are accepting their is no underlying creator of the human race, then there is no purpose to human race.

That is probably a common misconception. Atheists don't live in misery thinking there is no purpose to life, quite the opposite. As Atheists believe this is their only chance at life, they quite frequently embrace it. The phrase "life is too short" springs to mind.

John Wine wrote:

We are here purely by a long series of accidents.

Not sure what you mean by accidents, I would consider an accident as something you don't wish for.

John Wine wrote:

This is an issue that is naturally uncomfortable for people to take, even if it is correct. This is because we are a very emotional species.

It is uncomfortable, but if you are strong-willed then you learn to accept it and live your life to the fullest.

John Wine wrote:

Now, I think atheists don't like being reminded of this nothingness and hence this is why fundies freak them out. Fundies remind atheists that they (the atheists) belief their life a massive degree of meaningless.

I love being reminded that when I die I will turn to dust and that will be that. It helps me realise that my life is precious and that I should do everything I can to enjoy it, make many friends, travel the globe and do so with a smile on my face. Like this ->

John Wine wrote:

I can't see any other reason why logical people would get freaked out simply because a "gullible" person has a different opinion.

Fundamentalism, or fundamentalists in general, do not freak me out. People who spend their life preaching hate... they freak me out.

John Wine

MrJoeSoap wrote:

True, except for the 'meaningless' part, I don't feel meaningless. The opposite, if the truth be known.
That is probably a common misconception. Atheists don't live in misery thinking there is no purpose to life, quite the opposite. As Atheists believe this is their only chance at life, they quite frequently embrace it. The phrase "life is too short" springs to mind.

I'm not saying atheists are depressed. But I am saying the miss out on the feel good factor that a emotional crux provides. Even if all religions are wrongs and we all just go to dust, the crux is a emotionally positive buzz.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Not sure what you mean by accidents, I would consider an accident as something you don't wish for.

Sorry bad choice of words, I mean statistically unlikely events not accidents.

John Wine

The Atheist wrote:

You patently aren't comfortable with the idea that there is no meaning to life (in the religious sense) - therefore you have projected your fears onto those that follow that idea.

Yes I am going off my instincts and my deepest thoughts, and it feels good.
However I featr nobody, Fundy, Atheist bring em on.,

Dades

John Wine wrote:

It's the micro issues, (i.e. the other two) that really freak them out.

Them? You mean the people here who've just disagreed with you? Or some other atheist pool you've been paddling in?

MrJoeSoap

John Wine wrote:

I'm not saying atheists are depressed. But I am saying the miss out on the feel good factor that a emotional crux provides. Even if all religions are wrongs and we all just go to dust, the crux is a emotionally positive buzz.

True, ignorance is bliss I suppose!

John Wine wrote:

Sorry bad choice of words, I mean statistically unlikely events not accidents.

Cool, I agree so.

John Wine

MrJoeSoap wrote:

True, ignorance is bliss I suppose!

Going with your instincts also feels excellant

Cool, I agree so.

John Wine

The Atheist wrote:

Them? You mean the people here who've just disagreed with you? Or some other atheist pool you've been paddling in?

I don't know any of the people well enough to say, I was just giving my opinion and why you guys get freaked.

Dades

John Wine wrote:

I don't know any of the people well enough to say, I was just giving my opinion and why you guys get freaked.

I guess thats fair enough.

My own experience with folk here is that they aren't too concerned about life being "meaningless" - and even less concerned that atheism can't be "proven".

And of course the fact that something is unattractive shouldn't really affect what you believe.

John Wine

The Atheist wrote:

And of course the fact that something is unattractive shouldn't really affect what you believe.

Well that's the crux of the matter.
Atheism is unattractive to most people no matter how logical it may be.
It's like hanging around with accountants or some I.T. heads. You may have a logical conversation but you might actually feel worse.

Dades

To be fair, many people find it a breath of fresh air after a stifled (religious) upbringing.
There are no rules - only individual cases. Each to there own.

John Wine

The Atheist wrote:

To be fair, many people find it a breath of fresh air after a stifled (religious) upbringing.
There are no rules - only individual cases. Each to there own.

Is that not an anarchist?

Ciaran500

"Anarchism is the name of a political philosophy or a group of doctrines and attitudes that are centered on rejection of any form of compulsory government (such as the state)[1] and support its elimination." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

I don't think so.


Does this guy remind anyone else of a certain banned member?

John Wine

Ciaran 500,
Yes or No, do you agree with no rules in life?

Dades

John Wine wrote:

Ciaran 500,
Yes or No, do you agree with no rules in life?

Seriously - get a grip. We have rules in life - they're called legislation.

Lack or religious doctine does not result in anarchy.

Ciaran500 wrote:

Does this guy remind anyone else of a certain banned member?

Maybe. But it's been a slow week on A/A.

Ciaran500

John Wine wrote:

Ciaran 500,
Yes or No, do you agree with no rules in life?

Nope. But any rules should be dictated by common sense.

John Wine

Ciaran500 wrote:

Nope. But any rules should be dictated by common sense.

Define common sense.

Ciaran500

Not by a 2000 year old book...

Dades

John Wine wrote:

Define common sense.

Do your own thinking.

What do you think it is?

Zillah

Theism can freak me out because the religious are people who have the capacity to deeply and truly believe something that is wholly ridiculous to me. Their mind set is alien to me. It is something which is fundamentally beyond my capacity to empathise with. I feel that faith is a component of a very irrational paradigm.

But that in itself is not enough to upset me. Its when the afformentioned crazies then use their nonesense as a guide in the real world and claim that an imaginary magic being has told them how to make moral decisions in their lives, thats when it freaks me out. Moral decisions are some of the most important decisions that can be made, and it is deeply disturbing to me that there are people out there who use "God told me" or "What does the bible say?" to make those decisions.

Thats why I'm not freaked out by the average person, merely disquieted. Its the crazies like those running Jesus Camp ("I pledge my allegiance to the Christian Flag...", "This means War! This means War!") that deeply disturb me.

God hates fags! Destroy the state of Israel! Condoms are evil! I believe in objective morality!

Stuff like that.

matrim

To start off, I don't get freaked out by theists. They hold a belief that I don't agree with, but that happens all the time in different subject matters.

I would also agree with most other people here that real fundamentlism can kind of freak me out. This would be the people who believe that what they think is right and subsequently everyone else should think the same way.
If you don't you deserve to be punished for it.

But this doesn't just apply to religious fundamentlism. I feel the same way about any kind of fundamentlism, whether it is religous, political, etc. I would even feel the same way about extreme nationalism.

For me everything is open to question. I might believe something but if someone put evidence in front of me, I'd read it and if it proved I was wrong would say it.

John Wine wrote:

Theists, can't deal with being meaningless or having no purpose in life, they find their ancestoral religion comforting. It is an emotionally positive experience.
....
But if they are accepting their is no underlying creator of the human race, then there is no purpose to human race. We are here purely by a long series of accidents.
This is an issue that is naturally uncomfortable for people to take, even if it is correct. This is because we are a very emotional species.
Now, I think atheists don't like being reminded of this nothingness and hence this is why fundies freak them out. Fundies remind atheists that they (the atheists) belief their life has a degree of meaningless.

This is one of the things that I can't get how people believe in it.
If there is a creator who has a plan for everyones life, does that not make your life more meaningless, that if it came from a series of accidents (or statistically improbable events.)
Everything you do has already been planned out, every step you take, everything you say has been decided by someone else. You have no free choice so it doesn't matter what you do, it's all part of Gods plan.

This would make you no more than a sophisticated computer program who has to be told what to do.

Beruthiel

John Wine wrote:

Now, I think atheists don't like being reminded of this nothingness and hence this is why fundies freak them out.

I really don't get what you are trying to say here.
Atheists don't need to be reminded of the nothingness, it's fairly obvious that all atheists know this in the core.
You continue to use the words 'freaked out' when clearly this is not true. Fundies cannot be understood by a person who has put enough thought into these peoples beliefs to be more then confused how a otherwise normal human being refuses to see logic in a book that is clearly a work of fiction. We just cannot understand that, 'cannot understand' does not equate to 'freaked out'

Fundies remind atheists that they (the atheists) belief their life has a degree of meaningless

Just because a fundie believes in something, does not make it true. They live a life of delusion, that's all a fundie 'reminds' me of.
I personally do not wish to live a life full of delusion, I prefer to see it how it is, warts and all.

A Primal Nut

John Wine wrote:

I think what is silly here, is the definition of extremists and fundamentalist keep changing. I thought atheists were supposed to be hyper logical.

All that means is that different people here have different opinions on the definition of extremists and fundamentalists. By the very nature of atheism, (everyone think for themselves) differing opinions are what you'd expect. People thinking for themselves is healthier than going off books written 2 milleniums ago.

Now, I think atheists don't like being reminded of this nothingness and hence this is why fundies freak them out.

I think your missing the point. I don't think all Fundamentalists freak atheists out. I can only speak for myself, but some dude coming up to me with a leaflet about how to be born again wouldn't freak me out in the slightest. What would freak me out is the kind of fundamentalist who would walk onto a train and blow himself up, taking as many lives as he possibly can. Not because they're fundamentalist, but because they try to kill anyone who doesn't believe what they do.

Scofflaw

Perhaps some people get freaked out enough by atheists to feel the need to troll them...?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, but they're religious people. **** them

Asiaprod

Scofflaw wrote:

Perhaps some people get freaked out enough by atheists to feel the need to troll them...?

cordially,
Scofflaw

That would appear to be so.

Beruthiel

Asiaprod wrote:

That would appear to be so.

We are glitches in the Matrix of religion