Building a Website ???

paul moore

Hey,
Not sure if this is the right place for this.....Im looking to try and get a website built,could i do this myself ?? in other words what software would i need,how do i check if a certain web address is ok,getting it online etc.....

I have done most other things on pc's but never anything to do with websites,i could be lazy and just ring some company but dont wanted to get ripped off either,anyway i would like to know how its done !!
Any help would be great,

smemon

a few months ago, i hadn't a clue how to build websites...

Now i own a few (including the one in my sig), am working on a few new ones and have had a request from someone to built them one for a bit of cash

i use dreamweaver as software. Photoshop for graphics.

Basically, you can get free templates and just edit stuff here and there. Before you know it, you'll have set up your own website.

http://www.domainsarefree.com/ these guys are the cheapest around. $4 for a dot com address.

Adam

No offence smemon, but that website actually made me shudder!

OP, it would be my recommendation that you learn some basic html and css before doing ANYTHING! Photoshop is great for graphics and images, Dreamweaver does a job, and not the worst job, but is never going to be as flexible as coding yourself. Also, it's output is very messy, and I don't believe it's cross-browser compatible.

So I recommend you try and learn the "complicated" way, which honestly isn't that complicated, and if you're a fast learner you'll have the jump on just about anybody the designs in the likes of Dreamweaver/Frontpage etc.

paul moore

Yea im a quick learner alright.Where do i start to learn all this HTML stuff,
Get all the needed software and start from there ????

Thanks for the replys

Huggles

Paul go to macromedia.com and download the trial version of Dreamweaver. Do the tutorials and you will be on your way. You can then decide if Dreamweaver is for your or not.

wheres me jumpa

Step through the HTML tutorials here:

http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

HTML is pretty easy to get your head around. It is also only the tip of the iceberg however. In terms of software, all you need is notepad.

Rollo Tamasi

NVU is probably the best free editor out there
http://www.nvu.com/index.php

Some good free templates here: http://www.oswd.org/. All you'd have to do is to download it, and change whatever you want. Is handy if you're beginning!

You need to buy a domain, and have it hosted somewhere. There are some free hosting services available on the web (though they might take a while to find) and they may do the job you want, or they may not.

CuLT

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Step through the HTML tutorials here:

http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

HTML is pretty easy to get your head around. It is also only the tip of the iceberg however. In terms of software, all you need is notepad.

That said, there's no harm in making your life easier by using something like Editplus.

wheres me jumpa

CuLT wrote:

That said, there's no harm in making your life easier by using something like Editplus.

Absolutely. I just didnt want the OP to feel he had to go buy dreamweaver to get started.

paul moore

Whats Microsoft Frontpage like for this ???? and how would i publish it to the web when i have it finished ????

BreadBoard

You'd need a domain and hosting. Frontpage is great for learning HTML.

paul moore

Bought a Name thats about it !

axer

CuLT wrote:

That said, there's no harm in making your life easier by using something like Editplus.

Anyone know of any software like editplus that automatically uploads on saving the file? or should I just stick with dreamweaver?

Huggles

axer wrote:

Anyone know of any software like editplus that automatically uploads on saving the file? or should I just stick with dreamweaver?

Stick with Dreamweaver.

cianuro

W3 schools is a great resource. In our web development module in college, our lecturer based most of his course off it. I learned most of what I know from W3S.

smemon

Mirror wrote:

No offence smemon, but that website actually made me shudder!

well, id prefer to shudder and pay about €3 for a .com address than not shudder and pay €10 for one on a rip off irish site

i use these guys all the time (i'm no affiliate by the way). Not one bit of hassle. Sure, the site looks like it's stuck in the 90's but it does the job.

colm_c

It's not the domain costs that make us shudder - it's the website.

Templates are probably the worst thing that you could try and learn from. Before you even touch dreamweaver or frontpage, you should learn the basics of what these programs actually do - output HTML.

With some basic HTML skills you could make a decent website fairly easily. As for domains and hosting, for your own peace of mind and the level of support you can't go wrong with a local hosting company that's got someone at the end of the phone line.

The Corinthian

paul moore wrote:

I have done most other things on pc's but never anything to do with websites,i could be lazy and just ring some company but dont wanted to get ripped off either,anyway i would like to know how its done !!

To begin with I'll make the assumption, unlike others, that you're not all that bothered with learning how to be a Web developer, but are more interested in getting a job done without spending any / too much money. If this is incorrect then the advice already given is more than adequate.

It really depends on what you're looking for as a Web site can mean a lot of things. To begin with are you talking about a so-called brochureware site (typically static with little if any functionality), or a more complex beast that includes the server side development needed for eCommerce, for example?

If we're speaking of the first case, then an app like FrontPage or Dreamweaver and/or the use of templates will be all you need - outside of a modicum of talent in design and layout. If it's closer to the latter and you're a babe in the woods, then forget it and hire someone to do it for you (or hire them to do the clever stuff and you stick to the design) as the learning curve will be too steep if ultimately you're in another business with no serious intention of getting into Web development.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

tomED

Mirror wrote:

Dreamweaver does a job, and not the worst job, but is never going to be as flexible as coding yourself. Also, it's output is very messy, and I don't believe it's cross-browser compatible.

I have to disagree with this entirely. Dreamweaver is one of the cleanest code outputters out there. In fact for the basic HTML tags it's not even dirty!!

Mirror wrote:

So I recommend you try and learn the "complicated" way

I also can't agree with this. From the many years of hiring web developers I feel sorry for them when they come from a web design course, because they spent months/year(s) learning how to code in HTML and they come into a professional working environment and use dreamweaver (in most cases).

I do agree that it's definitely a plus to know HTML inside out as you will have the edge over someone who has only ever used a WYSIWYG for designing websites.

My tip to anyone starting out is to get a copy of dreamweaver, use it in "split mode" where you can see what code is being inserted when you use dreamweaver and you will sub conciously be learning HTML as you go along.

The bottom line is that these tools are made to make web developers jobs easier and most importantly - QUICKER!!!

You'll find it much easier to create a website this way than the old fashioned hand coding way.

paul moore wrote:

Not sure if this is the right place for this.....Im looking to try and get a website built,could i do this myself ??

This really depends on what you are trying to achieve. If it's a simple brochure-ware site, yes you could do it yourself. If it's something more advanced most likely not.

frodo_dcu

tomED wrote:

Mirror wrote:

Dreamweaver does a job, and not the worst job, but is never going to be as flexible as coding yourself. Also, it's output is very messy, and I don't believe it's cross-browser compatible.

I have to disagree with this entirely. Dreamweaver is one of the cleanest code outputters out there. In fact for the basic HTML tags it's not even dirty!!

This really depends on the version of dreamweaver you have experience with, obviously the further back you go the worse it is and many people who have being coding for years would have dismissed it years ago and not changed there opinion since. However the current version has come a long way and it is very clean and compliant if set to output only Xhtml and CSS.

tomED wrote:

Mirror wrote:

So I recommend you try and learn the "complicated" way

I also can't agree with this. From the many years of hiring web developers I feel sorry for them when they come from a web design course, because they spent months/year(s) learning how to code in HTML and they come into a professional working environment and use dreamweaver (in most cases).

I do agree that it's definitely a plus to know HTML inside out as you will have the edge over someone who has only ever used a WYSIWYG for designing websites.

My tip to anyone starting out is to get a copy of dreamweaver, use it in "split mode" where you can see what code is being inserted when you use dreamweaver and you will sub conciously be learning HTML as you go along.

The bottom line is that these tools are made to make web developers jobs easier and most importantly - QUICKER!!!

Here I would have to completely disagree, Dreamwever can be great and time saving if you know what its doing when you are using it wysiwyg. I have come come across so many people that learned html this way and when they run into any kind of problem they can't troubleshoot their own code, they then can't explain it to you so you have to root through it to find the problem. They also have little idea how to do something if DW doesn't have a button for it. As far as I'm concerned no-one should ever touch a wysiwyg until they have a firm grasp on HTML if they plan being a serious web developer.

To the OP as TC said what you need really depends what your ultimate goal is. If you plan on acctully plan on learning how to code valid XHTML and see future projects where you will be using these skills the I (as others have said) Totally recommend the W3C.

However if on the other hand you are purely looking to get one site done as quick and cheep as you can and maybe pick up some thing on the way then there are an abundance of ways to choose from, such as getting templates on-line and playing with them, or most hosting packages come with a free-website builder (i would recommend this as you don't appear to have a host yet and its probably the quickest way), or you could download the trail versions of Dreamweaver and Photoshop and have a go yourself (you will find lots of help here if you do this).

Adam

Out of curiosity, does the latest version of DW output valid xhtml and css? Or is it down to how you put the page together?

frodo_dcu

a far as I can see it does i use it myself sometimes but i'm always editing myself as well so i'm sure but i'd say its 99% valid

tomED

frodo_dcu wrote:

This really depends on the version of dreamweaver you have experience with, obviously the further back you go the worse it is and many people who have being coding for years would have dismissed it years ago and not changed there opinion since. However the current version has come a long way and it is very clean and compliant if set to output only Xhtml and CSS.

Well how far back have you gone frodo?

Since I've been using dreamweaver (1.2) - the code was clean, however it could get messy if you weren't familiar with HTML.

But since he is taking up web design now, it's unlikely that he will be going looking for a copy of version 1.2 - so I would imagine he'll be fine on that front.

frodo_dcu wrote:

Here I would have to completely disagree, Dreamwever can be great and time saving if you know what its doing when you are using it wysiwyg.

What are you disagreeing with exactly?

Dreamweaver is time saving regardless of whether you know what you are doing or not. The majority of tasks Paul is going to need will be easily accessbile through dreamweaver and will be much quicker than hand coding.

It's basic common sense.

How fast can you type this???

[HTML]
<table width="500" border="0">
<tr>
<td> </td>
</tr>
</table>
[/HTML]

It takes a couple of seconds in dreamweaver.....

frodo_dcu wrote:

I have come come across so many people that learned html this way and when they run into any kind of problem they can't troubleshoot their own code, they then can't explain it to you so you have to root through it to find the problem.

They also have little idea how to do something if DW doesn't have a button for it.

Well to some extent I have agree that it can create users that don't take account for what code dreamweaver is actually creating for them. To me these are lazy people, that don't actually want to learn about HTML, but merely, "how to create a website".

After working in this industry for the guts of a decade now and after hiring and firing many web developers I have seen that it's the people that want to learn about HTML and be the best they can that take note of what dreamweaver is creating for them.

When they then encounter a problem, they know enough of the basics to get them out of the hole.

frodo_dcu wrote:

As far as I'm concerned no-one should ever touch a wysiwyg until they have a firm grasp on HTML if they plan being a serious web developer.

Again, I disagree - If two people were to approach me tomorrow looking for work, I would choose the guy with basic HTML knowledge, that could use dreamweaver over the guy that could hand code and has never used a WYSIWYG editor.

Reason is simple=:
The guy that can use dreamweaver proficiently will be more productive than a guy that hand codes everything....

I'd even go as far as to say, I would hire someone that has NOT spent months/year(s) in college handcoding over someone who has.

Let's face it, if you go into any leading web development firm, they will expect you to have some knowledge of dreamweaver. Why? Because they have seen how valuable it is to their business.

nikimere

tomED wrote:

How fast can you type this???

[HTML]
<table width="500" border="0">
<tr>
<td> </td>
</tr>
</table>
[/HTML]

1st of all what are you using tables for!?!? :eek:

2nd, having first learned HTML by coding in NotePad i then switched to dreamweaver for about 2 or 3 years, however i have switched back to hardcoding. By organising my code properly and using CSS i have cut the build time of a site dramatically! I dont think i have opened dreamweaver for about 7 or 8 months now.

colm_c

tomED wrote:

Again, I disagree - If two people were to approach me tomorrow looking for work, I would choose the guy with basic HTML knowledge, that could use dreamweaver over the guy that could hand code and has never used a WYSIWYG editor.

Reason is simple=:
The guy that can use dreamweaver proficiently will be more productive than a guy that hand codes everything....

I'd even go as far as to say, I would hire someone that has NOT spent months/year(s) in college handcoding over someone who has.

Let's face it, if you go into any leading web development firm, they will expect you to have some knowledge of dreamweaver. Why? Because they have seen how valuable it is to their business.

Most web development firms should be hand coding for several reasons, by all means learn from dreamweaver but to use it in a production environment is just plain crap.

Take for instance a nice semantic CSS/XHTML template with no tables - I could knock one up in an hour hand-coding that will work cross browser and platform, I don't know where I would start with Dreamweaver.

Then there's all the tag soup, invalid code, and inaccessible code that gets outputted by dreamweaver and such tools. There are some good tools like editplus and textmate that give the handcoder a helping hand...

Use dreamweaver by all means, but you better know your HTML as well - anyone looking for a developer role, that comes to work with us gets a few XHTML/CSS books on day 1, and they're given a week to get up to scratch through tutorials, they may not be masters by then but at least they'll have a thorough understanding of what's going on.

9/10 prefer not to use dreamweaver afterwards...

tomED

nikimere wrote:

1st of all what are you using tables for!?!? :eek:

Well firstly, that was merely an example of what dreamweaver can do for you in seconds and something you just can't do in seconds.... if you want an xHTML example how about:

[HTML]<br />[/HTML]

6 keystrokes, compared to SHIFT and ENTER......

Secondly, you don't need to know CSS to create a website.......... That's a another discussion altogether.

nikimere wrote:

2nd, having first learned HTML by coding in NotePad i then switched to dreamweaver for about 2 or 3 years, however i have switched back to hardcoding. By organising my code properly and using CSS i have cut the build time of a site dramatically! I dont think i have opened dreamweaver for about 7 or 8 months now.

Dreamweaver isn't good at all for CSS based sites. But again, that's not what Paul is asking about.

There are no really good tools out there at the moment for developing CSS based sites yet. But they will come and they will be more efficient than hand coding.

dazftw

It may not count but I have used myspace the last couple of months and I have learned alot about html and css from that! Im in college now and we just got an assignment that we have to build a website I find dreamweaver great to use instead of writing out all the codes yourself!

I duno myspace was kinda my base point for learning the easy stuf now im college learning that other stuf lol

tomED

colm_c wrote:

Most web development firms should be hand coding for several reasons, by all means learn from dreamweaver but to use it in a production environment is just plain crap.

Why??

colm_c wrote:

Take for instance a nice semantic CSS/XHTML template with no tables - I could knock one up in an hour hand-coding that will work cross browser and platform, I don't know where I would start with Dreamweaver.

That's great, but if you knew dreamweaver, you could cut that time by at least half.

colm_c wrote:

Then there's all the tag soup, invalid code, and inaccessible code that gets outputted by dreamweaver and such tools.

If dreamweaver is outputting invalid and inaccessible code, you're not using it right.

colm_c wrote:

Use dreamweaver by all means, but you better know your HTML as well

Paul doesn't need to know HTML inside out to create a basic website.

colm_c wrote:

9/10 prefer not to use dreamweaver afterwards...

That's an outrageous statistic and completely off the scale.

colm_c wrote:

anyone looking for a developer role, that comes to work with us gets a few XHTML/CSS books on day 1, and they're given a week to get up to scratch through tutorials, they may not be masters by then but at least they'll have a thorough understanding of what's going on.

Again, the point being - Paul doesn't need to know XHTML/CSS to build a website.

The whole XHTML/CSS discussion has been talked about to death on these forums. But this thread isn't anything to do with XHTML and CSS......

dardoz

People. This guy wants to the know the best way of going about building a simple website as far as I can see. That in 1 word is Dreamweaver.

He's not asking to build a standards compliant CSS based website, nor is he wishing to become a professional web designer.