Speak up for Limerick

Amazotheamazing

From Today's Tribune.

'I've never come across any violence in Limerick'


Jerry Flannery Ireland rugby player "I love Limerick. I grew up here. It's home. We have the most beautiful women in the world. All my friends comment on how gorgeous the Limerick women are. I think there's good and bad people everywhere, but when something bad happens in Limerick, everyone seems to focus in on it. For example, five rugby players were stabbed in Dublin recently, and hardly anything was said. If that happened in Limerick it would be all over the papers for weeks. I've never come across any violence myself, and I think there are just a couple of families tarnishing the name of the city. The majority of Limerick people are very proud of their heritage."

Gerard Hartmann Sports physiotherapist "I don't think the national impression of Limerick . . . that of 'stab city' . . . is justified. Like every city, there are some nogo areas. My wife is a doctor, and she has to have a garda escort when she is called into certain areas. But on the other hand, my family has had a business on the main street of Limerick for 128 years and we've had no problems. The only minor problem I've had was in 2004, when one of my athletes was pushed into the canal. But I could live anywhere and I still choose to live here. I certainly prefer it to Dublin."

Bill Whelan Riverdance composer "It hurts me as a Limerick man to see what has happened to the city's reputation. I loved growing up there, and the tales of violence that have emerged over the last two decades are foreign to me. I experienced a far higher level of violence living in Dublin than in Limerick. In reality, it's a vibrant, growing city, with a great university and historical and architectural attributes. But there has been an unfortunate emphasis on the bad side of Limerick that is found in any city, and I think it is up to the people of the city to do something to challenge its negative reputation."

Amazotheamazing

I agree with all the above comments, but particularly Whelan's.

We've left a few hundred people (if even) determine the reputation of a city for over 80,000 people.

Karmafaerie

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Although I have to disagree with the point that Whelan made about it being up to the people of Limerick.
If we take this board as a microcosm of Ireland for instance.
Almost a year ago, Iguana posted the garda figures, proving that there was less crime per capita (7 1/2 times less crime per capita I may add!), in Limerick, than in Dublin.
After this, people stopped commenting on this forum about Limericks "crime problem" for a short while.
Then, whenever somebody else would come in and bring it up, they were directed back to the figures.
Then a few weeks ago, when another one of these sporadic Limerick bashing threads was started, I had somebody derisively comment on how I was going to bring facts into the discussion again!

People have made their minds up about Limerick, because of all the national coverage, and they refuse to let a little thing like facts change their minds.

chrislad

I've lived here for 12 years and I generally have nothing bad to say about the main city but there has been a bad atmosphere around the city, and it pains me to say, that I feel wary when walking down O'Connell St after 7pm. All the scum has migrated to town for the Christmas and due to increased Gardai in their localities.

Amazotheamazing

It's 2 different things though, Limerick city centre does need a major overhaul but that isn't due to knackers. Limerick city needs to focus on one area for "nightlife" and work from there. It looks like Thomas Street has been chosen as the area for publife in the city centre with the new pedestrianisation.

Personally I'd like to see the Cornmarket area also developed as a mini "Temple Bar" type area. A place where tourists could go and know they'd find a numbers of good pubs/nightclubs

On the city-centre crime, the city itself is much, much calmer since a) cctv was installed on the main streets and b) the Polish arrived, since they took up all the cheap accomadation that had previously housed scumbags.

Incidentally, the streets from Glentworth street to Barrington street have also improved with loads of the old Georgian buildings being properly renovated into offices.

Places like Southill, Moyross and the Island field might be getting worse, but the places on the fringes are getting better, with the new Quality hotel by Southill, the Gaelcolaiste and hotel on the Island or the new Thomond Park being built in Ballynanty.

ellenmelon

chrislad wrote:

I've lived here for 12 years and I generally have nothing bad to say about the main city but there has been a bad atmosphere around the city, and it pains me to say, that I feel wary when walking down O'Connell St after 7pm. All the scum has migrated to town for the Christmas and due to increased Gardai in their localities.

i always felt a bit uncomfortable walking around limerick city at night too, it wasnt like i feared for my life or anything but it was just..wierd. i think its the fact that there arent many people around and some bits are really badly lit.whereas in dublin i walked back to my hostel one night i was up there (along a couple of main roads and down one side street) and there were a good few people (scum and otherwise) around so i didnt really feel anything to be honest.

and something else..
a "mini temple bar"...whatever floats your boat but do we really need loads of english hen and stag parties taking over the place? i know i didnt care for temple bar in dublin..but anywho.

what i always think, is that a lot of crime goes unreported so its really hard to truely know whether a city is super violent or not and some crimes are all lumped together in stats so it can be a bit unclear.

also,still dont think new hotels means that a city has an improved its reputation..and i also dont know why im commenting on this post cause this same "limerick is super and nothing ever bad here happens here so dont say it does" topic comes up every 3 months or so...

CiaranC

Why do Limerick people constantly complain that people point out criminality in their city, and while doing it constantly point out criminality in Dublin themselves?

Like when Willie O'Dea pointed out the crime rates in Dublin on the Late Late recently and the audience applauded. Ugh.

ellenmelon

CiaranC wrote:

Why do Limerick people constantly complain that people point out criminality in their city, and while doing it constantly point out criminality in Dublin themselves?

Like when Willie O'Dea pointed out the crime rates in Dublin on the Late Late recently and the audience applauded. Ugh.

agreed
*high five*

scrattletrap

Personally I don't feel uncomfortable walking home through town after seven.

I think a big problem is, we are told that we should be nervous of all the scumbags in the city and so we are nervous even if there is no real need for it.

If we are told that the dog in number 3 is libel to jump over the wall and attack us we will avoid walking past the house or be wary when we do, even is there is no basis for it. The same thing with Limerick we are told that it is full of murders and rapists so we constantly look over our shoulder.

motormouthmable

you would see it different if two different (!) groups of scums are throwing bottles after you and your dog at 7pm on clancy's strand (treaty stone and the little park). i've been not the only target when passing by.

further i don't like to get snot on my jacket just while crossing sarsfield bridge just because a scumbag thinks it is a funny thing to spit out of the car or the drunkards that sitting at the lock quay bridge who are doing regularely the same.

didn't realised that clancy's strand and sarsfield already turned into a no-go-aerea.

i used to live behind st. munchins (castleview ave) and the scums were regularely throwing stones at windows, cars and busses. once a neighbour rang the guards - the next day his windscreen was broken. that's for paranoia...

this could have happened everywhere in town and not only in the three infamous estates. i know, there are those aereas in every city. but in a small city like Limerick with 60.000 having alone 3 (three!!) of them - that's a bit weird, isn't it?

dv

CiaranC wrote:

Why do Limerick people constantly complain that people point out criminality in their city, and while doing it constantly point out criminality in Dublin themselves?

Like when Willie O'Dea pointed out the crime rates in Dublin on the Late Late recently and the audience applauded. Ugh.

People don't complain about criminality being pointed out, they complain about it being exaggerated all out of proportion. By no means am I a fan of Willie O'Dea but during most of that interview he was very frank about crime in Limerick and than at one point he simply stated that Dublin has higher crime rates than Limerick. The audience weren't applauding crime in Dublin, they're just sick of this image of Limerick as some sort of downtown Baghdad that's 100 times worse than the rest of the country.

ellenmelon wrote:

and i also dont know why im commenting on this post cause this same "limerick is super and nothing ever bad here happens here so dont say it does" topic comes up every 3 months or so....

I've never, ever heard anyone say that and certainly not on this thread. The article in the first post isn't glossing over crime in Limerick, it just chose to concentrate on the positive aspects rather than the negative. Surely this is allowed? The opposite happens often enough.

Limerick has some big problems. Ignoring them would, in fact, be far worse than exaggerating them. To try and fight them, they have to be fully acknowledged in the first place. But this does not mean that limerick is some horrible place to live verging on a warzone. I could point out again that I have never been assaulted or attacked and nor has anyone I know. But those kind of facts don't really seem to matter, it's the violence that counts.

Amazotheamazing

ellenmelon wrote:

and something else..
a "mini temple bar"...whatever floats your boat but do we really need loads of english hen and stag parties taking over the place? i know i didnt care for temple bar in dublin..but anywho.

also,still dont think new hotels means that a city has an improved its reputation..and i also dont know why im commenting on this post cause this same "limerick is super and nothing ever bad here happens here so dont say it does" topic comes up every 3 months or so...

Limerick just can't win though, can it? I suggest something that might bring more tourists in to the area and you knock it down. Whats wrong with wanting more tourists in town, whats wrong with wanting an area of good pubs and nightclubs? People slag of Temple Bar but I doubt anyone wishes the tourists were spending their money elsewhere.

Also, I think more hotels do mean that Limerick's rep is changing, no business invests upwards of 20 million in a city just for the sheer hell of it, or perhaps you've another negative reason they're doing it?

btw, of all the cities to walk alone in at night, Galway would be perceived to be the safest, and yet, an individual is more likely to be raped in in Galway than anywhere else. Perceptions of how safe a place is isn't always indicative of how safe a place is.

Again, of course Limerick has it's problems but does that mean that every positive thread needs to be burdened with them? Or do you feel that there is absolutely no positives about Limerick at the minute?

I personally feel that the fact that certain areas have gone from being huge unemployment balckspots to places companies wish to invest millons in, is good news and yet rather than praise Thomondgate or wherever, you always look to the bad news story.

1huge1

CiaranC wrote:

Why do Limerick people constantly complain that people point out criminality in their city, and while doing it constantly point out criminality in Dublin themselves?

Like when Willie O'Dea pointed out the crime rates in Dublin on the Late Late recently and the audience applauded. Ugh.

ya no argrument there willie probably should of just defended limerick instead of trying to take dublin down

but to be fair the whole crime rate of limerick orignated in dublin (media etc)

Karmafaerie

CiaranC wrote:

Why do Limerick people constantly complain that people point out criminality in their city, and while doing it constantly point out criminality in Dublin themselves?

Like when Willie O'Dea pointed out the crime rates in Dublin on the Late Late recently and the audience applauded. Ugh.

Let's get this straight.
Do you get annoyed at patronising Americans, thinking that Ireland is full of farmers and leprechauns?
Well that's how people in Limerick feel.
The fact of the matter remains, that this image of Limerick, originated with the Dublin media.
Add to that the fact that there is seven and a half times less serious crime in Limerick per capita, than Dublin, and you can see why Dublin gets mentioned.
It's nothing that Limerick people have against the people of Dublin, but if somebody keeps telling you that you're a farmer leprechaun, you get pissed!

motormouthmable wrote:

stuff

Like has been said to you, time and time before, this happens in every city in the country.
In fact, this happens in every town in the country.
It's not a Limerick thing.
I've been on a train coming home from Dublin when a brick was thrown through the window.
I've seen a guy get the crap beaten out of him by six guys up in Eyre Square in Galway.
I've been in a car just outside of Cork city centre, when a load of stones were thrown at the windscreen.
Parts of Dublin had to have bus services shut down for the best part of a week, because of all the violence towards passengers and drivers in Dublin over Halloween.
This happens everywhere in the country, but you act like it's just Limerick.

1huge1 wrote:

ya no argrument there willie probably should of just defended limerick instead of trying to take dublin down

but to be fair the whole crime rate of limerick orignated in dublin (media etc)

That's true about the media, but Willie wasn't badmouthing Dublin at all.
Here's is the only mention of Dublin, verbatim!

(He was referring to the media coming up with some stupid statistic about how Limerick was the place where you're most likely to suffer a violent death.)

Willie: at that moment in time, we had a problem here certainly, but there was a bigger problem in Dublin actually, so it was the national focus.

Clapping, Pat being patronising about the hometown audience.

Willie: There had been actually two horrific murders in Dublin just in and around that time.
(There had been two gangland killings in the previous week.)
At that moment in time, there hadn't been a murder in Limerick in a year, and there had been 12 murders in just over 4 months up in Dublin, 8 of which were considered gangland!
It was the media basically lying about Limerick he was referring to, not Dublin having a problem.

motormouthmable

Karmafaerie wrote:

Add to that the fact that there is seven and a half times less serious crime in Limerick per capita, than Dublin, and you can see why Dublin gets mentioned.

http://garda.ie/angarda/statistics/report2005/annreport2005b.pdf

see page 26 for the headline offences in 2005 per 1000 of population.


EDIT: sorry, my fault - this statistic was created in phoenix park. that's why...

ellenmelon

dv wrote:

People don't complain about criminality being pointed out, they complain about it being exaggerated all out of proportion. By no means am I a fan of Willie O'Dea but during most of that interview he was very frank about crime in Limerick and than at one point he simply stated that Dublin has higher crime rates than Limerick. The audience weren't applauding crime in Dublin, they're just sick of this image of Limerick as some sort of downtown Baghdad that's 100 times worse than the rest of the country.



I've never, ever heard anyone say that and certainly not on this thread. The article in the first post isn't glossing over crime in Limerick, it just chose to concentrate on the positive aspects rather than the negative. Surely this is allowed? The opposite happens often enough.

Limerick has some big problems. Ignoring them would, in fact, be far worse than exaggerating them. To try and fight them, they have to be fully acknowledged in the first place. But this does not mean that limerick is some horrible place to live verging on a warzone. I could point out again that I have never been assaulted or attacked and nor has anyone I know. But those kind of facts don't really seem to matter, it's the violence that counts.

did you not realise i that comment was very heavily paraphrased? the reason i said it was the on occasion there will be a post like the OP that, seems to be, wanting to stir things up. cause its a pretty hot topic most of the time.thats just what i think, its not gospel. i just honestly do (and so does my partner who lived there for all of his 29 years) that a lot of people choose to ignore the bad reputation of limerick and get wound up if anyone says otherwise.

1huge1

Karmafaerie:Do you get annoyed at patronising Americans, thinking that Ireland is full of farmers and leprechauns?
Well that's how people in Limerick feel.

ah brilliant I could not of put it better myself in a million years
we can all relate to that but you also forgot to mention about the alachol
you know how were non stop drinkers
its partly true but they take it to another level
ever see the episode of family guy were they show ireland 500years ago as a futuristic place but then a guy says ive just invented beer and then they all go crazy
classic

oh so off topic but it was worth it telling that story
good times

ellenmelon

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Limerick just can't win though, can it? I suggest something that might bring more tourists in to the area and you knock it down. Whats wrong with wanting more tourists in town, whats wrong with wanting an area of good pubs and nightclubs? People slag of Temple Bar but I doubt anyone wishes the tourists were spending their money elsewhere.

Also, I think more hotels do mean that Limerick's rep is changing, no business invests upwards of 20 million in a city just for the sheer hell of it, or perhaps you've another negative reason they're doing it?

btw, of all the cities to walk alone in at night, Galway would be perceived to be the safest, and yet, an individual is more likely to be raped in in Galway than anywhere else. Perceptions of how safe a place is isn't always indicative of how safe a place is.

Again, of course Limerick has it's problems but does that mean that every positive thread needs to be burdened with them? Or do you feel that there is absolutely no positives about Limerick at the minute?

I personally feel that the fact that certain areas have gone from being huge unemployment balckspots to places companies wish to invest millons in, is good news and yet rather than praise Thomondgate or wherever, you always look to the bad news story.

dude.chill the heck out! you really need to learn to argue properly, meaning you need to not get so wound up and spurt whatever comes to your head and bordering on abusive. and stop taking it so freaking personally. no ones ever going to say "you're right, im wrong" on something like this. Again, of course Limerick has it's problems but does that mean that every positive thread needs to be burdened with them?you're the one who posts things like this on the board and surely you realise that the "negative" aspects of the city are going to be brought up?you cant expect people to have to bite their tongue and pander to what is seen to be the less offensive route by saying "limerick is a great city with no foibles whatsoever" when you post what you did.

i wouldnt be keen on a temple bar type area wherever i lived really..i just think its a bit tacky.its nothing to do with limerick. hens and stags make me cringe.

yes,you personally feel that limerick is getting better and i dont. i see thats what you think and i accept it.

i never read any irish news so i dont see how you could say that i always look at the bad news story. i found irish news (in fact, i find the same with NZ news) awful because a lot of papers/networks have an agenda.

in short..i still dont think limerick has enough positives to outweigh the negatives. a couple of years progression doesnt make up for some shortcomings that it has in my opinion.

motormouthmable

It could be so nice here if something would be done with the looks of the city. Ok, it's maybe wrong to complain about the looks of some buildings in *put in here a random street name* as they are private property.

For example take the park in Clare Street. I'm pretty sure that this park is belonging to some public authority. It's a nice small park with a good play ground for the kids. The gardeners are putting an effort in keeping the grass nice and cleaning the pathways. But why the heck is nobody doing something with that shelter:

clarepark.jpeg

It's just an eyesore in that park.
I can hear already the voices like "Ah, c'mon! The castle looks beautiful. Stop complaining!"
I think this is symptomatic for two reasons, first putting an blind eye on the bad things and pointing out only the good things. Sure there is a picturesque view from Sarsfield Bridge to the castle but there are those rotten things in public parks as well. Secondly everything is just half done. Is it to much to expect that in a well-maintained park a shelter can be look nice as well? You can't probably do that much against the graffiti but you could put just a new lath and some roof tiles on it, at least.

dv

ellenmelon wrote:

did you not realise i that comment was very heavily paraphrased? the reason i said it was the on occasion there will be a post like the OP that, seems to be, wanting to stir things up. cause its a pretty hot topic most of the time.thats just what i think, its not gospel. i just honestly do (and so does my partner who lived there for all of his 29 years) that a lot of people choose to ignore the bad reputation of limerick and get wound up if anyone says otherwise.

Well, as I said earlier, turning a blind eye to the problems that exist is obviously just stupid. But (and I understand this kind of thing can be subjective), I really don't see how amazo's post (which is, of course, an article from a newspaper, not just his own thoughts) is trying to "stir things up" at all. There's no argumentative or confrontational language. There's no "Limerick is perfect in every way so let's stick our heads in the sand" type nonsense. It's just a few people saying why they like Limerick and what they think is good about it, and if you read it carefully you'll see that several bad points are mentioned as well!

If I was to say "The Bedford Row and Thomas Street redevelopement is really starting to look great", it doesn't mean I'm ignoring the fact that, say, William Street is an ugly mess. I'm simply pointing out what i think is good about the city centre at the moment.

If someone from Galway/Dublin/Cork/Laois/Wexford/Wherever said "I like my home because..." I really don't think they'd be accused of stirring things up or ignoring problems that exist in their county.

I think this is a particularly good quote from the article:

"But there has been an unfortunate emphasis on the bad side of Limerick that is found in any city, and I think it is up to the people of the city to do something to challenge its negative reputation."

As I've said, Ignoring the problems is utter lunacy but Limerick people have every right to stand up for their city. I know some Limerick people who, for some reason, put Limerick down all the time and won't acknowledge anything positive at all. If People choose to be negative all the time, concentrating on the worst aspects of wherever they live, then chances are nothing will ever change.

dv

There's a link to a relevant article in today's Examiner on the limerick blogspot.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=18672-qqqx=1.asp

ellenmelon

dv wrote:

Well, as I said earlier, turning a blind eye to the problems that exist is obviously just stupid. But (and I understand this kind of thing can be subjective), I really don't see how amazo's post (which is, of course, an article from a newspaper, not just his own thoughts) is trying to "stir things up" at all. There's no argumentative or confrontational language. There's no "Limerick is perfect in every way so let's stick our heads in the sand" type nonsense. It's just a few people saying why they like Limerick and what they think is good about it, and if you read it carefully you'll see that several bad points are mentioned as well!

If I was to say "The Bedford Row and Thomas Street redevelopement is really starting to look great", it doesn't mean I'm ignoring the fact that, say, William Street is an ugly mess. I'm simply pointing out what i think is good about the city centre at the moment.

If someone from Galway/Dublin/Cork/Laois/Wexford/Wherever said "I like my home because..." I really don't think they'd be accused of stirring things up or ignoring problems that exist in their county.

I think this is a particularly good quote from the article:

As I've said, Ignoring the problems is utter lunacy but Limerick people have every right to stand up for their city. I know some Limerick people who, for some reason, put Limerick down all the time and won't acknowledge anything positive at all. If People choose to be negative all the time, concentrating on the worst aspects of wherever they live, then chances are nothing will ever change.

i probably shouldve made myself a bit clearer when i said it stirs things up..i didnt mean that it was abusive/confrontational kind of stir up..more of a stirs up strong emotions kind of thing? i hope that makes sense...

dv

You said something earlier along the lines of this being a tired old argument that keeps popping up.

I guess that's one thing we can definately agree on.

Amazotheamazing

ellenmelon wrote:

dude.chill the heck out! you really need to learn to argue properly, meaning you need to not get so wound up and spurt whatever comes to your head and bordering on abusive. and stop taking it so freaking personally. no ones ever going to say "you're right, im wrong" on something like this. Again, of course Limerick has it's problems but does that mean that every positive thread needs to be burdened with them?you're the one who posts things like this on the board and surely you realise that the "negative" aspects of the city are going to be brought up?you cant expect people to have to bite their tongue and pander to what is seen to be the less offensive route by saying "limerick is a great city with no foibles whatsoever" when you post what you did.

i wouldnt be keen on a temple bar type area wherever i lived really..i just think its a bit tacky.its nothing to do with limerick. hens and stags make me cringe.

yes,you personally feel that limerick is getting better and i dont. i see thats what you think and i accept it.

i never read any irish news so i dont see how you could say that i always look at the bad news story. i found irish news (in fact, i find the same with NZ news) awful because a lot of papers/networks have an agenda.

in short..i still dont think limerick has enough positives to outweigh the negatives. a couple of years progression doesnt make up for some shortcomings that it has in my opinion.

This is where you and I differ, I don't go out of my way to post negative things about Limerick, you often do. Even when positive things are posted, (which the first comment largely is) you jump up about comparisons with other places and how much worse than somewhere Limerick is.

I don't accept that negative things have to be brought into every thread, this thread for example was from 3 relatively famous people spoke up for their city, I was re-iterating their views, why you felt the need to be negative is up to you, not me.

At the risk of attempting to educate you, in the 1980's, Limerick had no university (it was an NIHE), huge unemployment, Shannon was used mainly for emigration, the city centre was largely unmaintained (compared to the improvements around the Cresent, the new buildings on the river etc), there was council houses in King John's Castle, river was badly polluted and hospitals were being closed down.

Now Limerick has one of the best universities (according to official rankings) and IT's, Shannon is bring huge numbers of tourists into the West and Midwest, great sports facilities, new hotels being built, new hospitals being built, main drainage scheme slowly cleaning the river, most of Pery sq being refurbished, several streets being refurbished, several new shopping centres being built, new nightclubs coming onstream, gaelic grounds expanded, Thomond being rebuilt etc etc.

Yes Limerick has it's bad parts, but do the bad parts have to be every story? Why not reflect on the positives coming along than continually look at the bad side of the story? I think Limerick has made some huge strides in the last 10 years, sure I'd love if there was more cafes, bookshops and theatres but even then things are improving. What we need now is for events like riverfest to really take off and capture the public's imagination, maybe bring a few big bands for gigs here etc, but it's an upward curve.

CiaranC

Karmafaerie wrote:

The fact of the matter remains, that this image of Limerick, originated with the Dublin media.

The 'Dublin' media?

Surely you mean the national media?

cancan

How long are the people of limerick going to allow scumbags and their ilk hold the city and its image hostage.

I don't care what the crime figures say, the level of crime in public disorder in limerick is not acceptable. (if it's worse in other towns, will that’s their problem)

The tolerance the city gives to trouble makers is not acceptable.

People should no be afraid to walk down main streets after 7, or have bottles or snot fired at them when they go for a walk.

There should be a zero tolerance approach to disorder in Limerick.
If people are prosecuted heavily for the small stuff, the bigger stuff simply will not happen.

Check out how NY dealt with their crime problems - using an approach like that, in a few years limerick could be the cleanest and nicest city in the country.

The current policies are not working.

Until limerick people call for action to be taken to make a difference, expect the same levels of lawlessness in the future.

Amazotheamazing

cancan wrote:

How long are the people of limerick going to allow scumbags and their ilk hold the city and its image hostage.

I don't care what the crime figures say, the level of crime in public disorder in limerick is not acceptable. (if it's worse in other towns, will that’s their problem)

The tolerance the city gives to trouble makers is not acceptable.

People should no be afraid to walk down main streets after 7, or have bottles or snot fired at them when they go for a walk.

There should be a zero tolerance approach to disorder in Limerick.
If people are prosecuted heavily for the small stuff, the bigger stuff simply will not happen.

Check out how NY dealt with their crime problems - using an approach like that, in a few years limerick could be the cleanest and nicest city in the country.

The current policies are not working.

Until limerick people call for action to be taken to make a difference, expect the same levels of lawlessness in the future.

I agree completely with stamping out anti-social behaviour, but how?

I don't think zero tolerence will work here becuase Limerick really isn't comparable to New York, a city of 80,000 against a city of 8,000,000, the funds aren't around, the police force isn't around and most crucially, the political will isn't around. Also, recent studies have shown the effects of zero tolerence were far over-stated, with numerous other factors also helping lower crime.

cancan

I agree completely with stamping out anti-social behaviour, but how?

I don't think zero tolerence will work here becuase Limerick really isn't comparable to New York, a city of 80,000 against a city of 8,000,000, the funds aren't around, the police force isn't around and most crucially, the political will isn't around. Also, recent studies have shown the effects of zero tolerence were far over-stated, with numerous other factors also helping lower crime.

You gave me 4 excuses why a crack down on crime would not work, and then said that such crime crackdowns do not work.

Is it any wonder such lawlessness exists if the people feel that even introducing a decent level of policing with all the cash that the government has at the moment, would not be a worthwhile exercise?

Has anyone in limerick even been prosecuted for firing snot or bottles?
No.
Zero tolerance would help stamp out such occurrences, by having a consequence attached to every action, and not distinguishing between "common" and 'serious" criminals as they do now, which basically gives the green light for minor offences.

Is it any wonder that such a situation has developed?

Karmafaerie

motormouthmable wrote:

http://garda.ie/angarda/statistics/report2005/annreport2005b.pdf

see page 26 for the headline offences in 2005 per 1000 of population.


EDIT: sorry, my fault - this statistic was created in phoenix park. that's why...

Yeah, if you're going to try and be smart, at least read the figures that you tried to post!
These figure have been posted here before, and they're the figures I'm referring to when I mentioned the seven and a half times more headline crimes in Dublin per capita, over Limerick!:rolleyes:

Iguana wrote:

Last years figures are here.
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics/report2005.html

These figures are stunning, I knew Limerick's image was badly distorted compared to national crime figures, but I couldn't have imagined by how much. And I'd never in a million years have guessed that THE most crime ridden area of the country, per head of population, was Dublin South Central. Do you know how much property costs there?

I thought I'd stick in a few of the main points for those who wouldn't be bothered to download or read through it.

Headline Offences 2005 (these are the biggies, like murder, rape, armed robbery, assault and burglary) per 1000 of population.

Dublin Total; 44,991. Cork Total; 9162. Limerick; 5,717.

Dublin has more than seven and a half times the crime of Limerick per capita. The worst area is Dublin South Central with 9,643. 44% of these crimes happen in Dublin, the southern region which includes Limerick and Cork, as well as Kerry accounts for 16%.

Still not convinced? Lets break it down.

Murder

Dublin Total; 27. Cork Total; 3. Limerick; 1.

Per 100,000 people;

Dublin Total; 2.35. Cork Total; 0.66. Limerick; 0.56.

Of these figures 3 murder victims were women, all were killed in Dublin. Dublin had more than 4 times the murder rate of Limerick last year. The highest murder rate in the country is in Dublin South Central, with 6.81 per 100k. This accounted for 7 murders, including 2 women, the most murders (10) actually took place in Dublin Western.

Rape and Sexual Assault, per 1k population.

Dublin Total; R; 0.12 / SA; 0.30. Cork Total; R; 0.09 / SA; 0.19. Limerick; R; 0.10 / SA; 0.21.

The worst area in the country for rape was Donegal, per capita and in amount, with .28 and 38 rapes. It was the same for sexual assault with 0.72 per capita and 99 actual. It needs to be said that these are the reported figures. It is estimated that less than one third of rapes are reported to the gardaí.

Robbery & Aggravated Burglary, with Firearms

Dublin Total; 228. Cork Total; 10. Limerick; 19.

per 1k population

Dublin Total; 0.2. Cork Total; 0.02. Limerick; 0.11.

The worst area for these crimes is Dublin North Central with .49 per 1000 people. The highest amount however is Dublin Western with 52 actual. Dublin accounts for 65%, the Southern Region for 8%

Right I could go on, but I'm suffering from insomnia and I'm very tired. The reason I didn't include Galway is because Galway is split into Galway West and Roscommon/Galway East, so it just wasn't possible. It is not a slight against the city and county.

It's not an opinion, simply a fact!

CiaranC wrote:

The 'Dublin' media?

Surely you mean the national media?

No, I meant the Dublin Media.
There is one real national media outlet that doesn't come from Dublin.
The (Cork) Examiner is it.
Every other national paper, and TV news outlet comes from Dublin.
One of Ireland's biggest problems has been the intense centralisation for the last hundred years.
Everything in Ireland was aimed towards Dublin, and only now is this attitude starting to change.
The media however is still almost exclusively Dublin biased.

gaf1983

Ellenmellon, I know this is off-topic, but in a previous post you said you don't read Irish newspapers, nor did you read New Zealand ones, because they have agendas. Does this mean that you don't read/watch any news media at all, because as far as I'm aware, every newspaper/broadcast has some sort of agenda. Could you provide us with the name of an agenda-free publication?

Regarding the applying of New York style zero tolerance, the No Broken Windows principle, I think the population differences between the two cities is a big factor in that Limerick, being a relatively small place, is much more likely to be a kind of place were criminals can intimidate the gardai, the enforcers of zero tolerance and their families.

Finally, to cancan, you say that no one has ever been prosecuted in Limerick for lugging snot/firing bottles. Could I alert you to one of the local daily papers, be they agenda-ridden or agenda-free, cos in them you will find the court reports, where it is regularily reported that X or Y was prosecuted for such so-called "minor" offences.

motormouthmable

Karmafaerie wrote:

Yeah, if you're going to try and be smart, at least read the figures that you tried to post!

yeah, right... nice try!

Headline offences per 1,000 of population 2005
Dublin Met Region 39.13
Souther Region 21.92 (Limerick 31.85)

and now shoo! back into your pink clound!