judge brian curtain resigns?

constitutionus

just heard it on newstalk at 4. no official confirmation yet but their sources in leinster house said he's left. what do ya think, deal done on his pension or did the prospect of impeachment get to him?

The_Minister

constitutionus wrote:

just heard it on newstalk at 4. no official confirmation yet but their sources in leinster house said he's left. what do ya think, deal done on his pension or did the prospect of impeachment get to him?

They can't impeach him, a judge's salery is protected by the constitution, and the only evidence against him is invalid under the constitution.

constitutionus

well the oireachtas commitie that was set up to investigate him is holding a newsconfrence at 5pm today and according to RTE.IE the government have initiated impeachment procedings against him. the government do have the power to do this its just never been done in the history of the state. curtain took a case on constitutional grounds but the supreme court dismissed it clearing the way for his impeachment, guess we'll find out in 20 minutes

*EDIT* yup its official, hes gone citing permanent disability. ironically he's managed to stall investigation just long enough to qualify for his pension. because of the route hes taking its a vastly reduced one of less than 20k a year but its still more than the minimum wage for a job he was only in for 7 months (and according to RTE he gets a lump sum of 60k)

the investigative commitee is now disbanded as it can only investigate a sitting judge. seeing as hes retired its outside their remit. still on the plus side at least we now have a mechanism to investigate judges should such events arise again

mike65

So he gets his penison and gets away with it and all done prefectly 'by-the-book'.

Mike.

ArthurDent

Irish soln to Irish problem, what the feck is "organic brain disease" anyway?

constitutionus

ArthurDent wrote:

Irish soln to Irish problem, what the feck is "organic brain disease" anyway?

well according to wikipedis "organic brain syndrome" results in confusion, dementia , delirium and agitation. sounds like your average TD to me

basically it looks like hes saying hes nuts!

Villain

Well things have to change, be it a referendum if needed.

He waited for the 5 year period so he could get his pension then made sure the public wouldn't get to know the truth. His pension entitlement should have been put on hold while this investigation was been carried out which wouldn't have allowed his delays to make sure the 5 years were up and he could walk free with his pension.

Glenbhoy

The notion of the impeachment was a disgrace anyway, the government knew that their hands were effectively tied, this was the least bad option for all concerned. Funny that I read in some of the papers last week that this was going to happen!!
BTW wtf is Michael Healy Rae doing on question time, and what's with the hat, does he not trust the quality of roofing down in Donnybrook??

spanner

The government or the courts have no power now to remove penison rights in relation to the child porn issue as he has not been convicted of it and the reason he has not been convicted is because the Gardai messed up the investigation by not actioning the warrant correctly. I belive the responsiblity lies with the Gardai for this mess

Glenbhoy

spanner wrote:

The government or the courts have no power now to remove penison rights in relation to the child porn issue as he has not been convicted of it and the reason he has not been convicted is because the Gardai messed up the investigation by not actioning the warrant correctly. I belive the responsiblity lies with the Gardai for this mess

Correct, bar the assertion that he was not convicted because the gardai fcuked up, he has actually been found not guilty by our courts - now that may be because the bulk of the prosecutions evidence was inadmissable due to a technical breach by the gardai, but, that evidence may not have been enough to have convicted him anyway. We should not jump to the conclusion that he would have been convicted had all the evidence been admissable just because some guard leaked that info, might the gardai have an agenda here too?

spanner

Glenbhoy wrote:

might the gardai have an agenda here too?

Possibly, I take your point that it was not a definate conviction if all the evidence was admissable however Gardai did make a serious error in not actioning the warrant within the correct time frame and due to the fact that the key evidence for the prosecution was excepted to be found in this raid on the computer I do see it as a major mess up by the Gardai. The judge also rebuked the gardai for putting in the evidence even though they should of clearly known it was not admissable

Wexfordian2006

Wexfordian2006 wrote:

Had he been cleared on the basis of the evidence, then the public would probably have accepted his innocence. Instead, there is a shadow hanging over him because the case never came to trial.

Personally I think theres more of a shadow hanging over him because he resigned immediately when his five years as a judge was up ,rather than face the music.
It's fishy.
If he was totally innocent he would have wanted to prove it to the Dáil.

walrusgumble

whatever happens now the government of the day will have to change the constitution in relation to moving a judge, maybe they could be removed in the same manner as the president (2/3 majority instead of a majority) stated misbehaviour will have to be properly constructed.

constitutionus

you know theres one thing bothering me about the curtain trial. how come when it collapesed cause of gardai incompetance in gathering the evidence he wasnt charged with another crime? what i mean is when MR A suscessfully shot down the statuatory rape laws as unconstitutional and walked free he was re arrested with another crime of child abuse (i think, it definetly wasnt the same charge anyway but tangently associated with it) so why not the same here? his trial of posession of child porn collapsed but there nothing to stop a trial for the purchase of child porn, after all his credit card was involved. or abbeting child abuse by way of funding it, ok i know its semantics but so's getting off cause the warrents a day out of use. seems to me if the will was there he'd be up in court, and not in a professional sense.

also am i the only one to notice that practically everyone arrested under operation amythest has been handled with kid gloves? last guy got a suspended sentance! we either dont give a toss about paedo porn or something seriously compromised the whole operation. i cant help thinking it was brians involvment I.E a "why should i go down when the judge got off?" mentality drawing too much attention to the issue.

constitutionus

constitutionus wrote:

also am i the only one to notice that practically everyone arrested under operation amythest has been handled with kid gloves? last guy got a suspended sentance! we either dont give a toss about paedo porn or something seriously compromised the whole operation. i cant help thinking it was brians involvment I.E a "why should i go down when the judge got off?" mentality drawing too much attention to the issue.

Before we get into the conspiracy stuff, perhaps you might let us know the sentences for possession of child porn before operation amythest. If there has been a marked reduction in them, I might agree with you. Otherwise, it's just you thinking what they should get as opposed to what they are getting.

Seth Brundle

There appear to be so many questions left unanswered tough:
* why was the warrant allowed to be executed so late?
* will there be any form of inquiry as to why it was served after it had expired?
* the judges ISP will have info on the pics & pages he downloaded. Was there not enough info about his surfing interests here to correllate with his CC payment to kiddyporn.com (or whatever) to justify a trial?
* his PC is still in state hands - does this have to be handed back and can its illicit contents (if any) be made public?

mike65

Anyone read the Tribune ed today, it pulled no punches. And from what it said Curtain should face charges, they pulled a couple of hundred child molestation images off the drive and stuff from his dairy.

Mike.