Eircom league - ignorance

Magic Pips

Confession: i now FA about the eircom league.

Is there any Footballing model in a country with around 4 million population sustaining a decent footballing league?

This thread is for discussion on how to progress Irish soccer, not for hardcore EL follows bitching.

be constructive people...

_blank_

A decent rule book would be a start.

Then an organisation with the balls to implement to the letter.

gimmick

Well, there is an outstanding thread here, which in places is constructive, in places ridiculous, and in places surreal (see TheJollyRodgers posts good love him).

Jivin Turkey

People need to get a proper perspective on how good Irish soccer can be. Demographics are huge factor in this. As you said originally, we are a nation of c. 4 million. I'd wager we are one of the smallest, if not the smallest, nation ever to reach the QFs of a WC. That is a phenomenal achievment. And also bear in mind that soccer in this country must battle with three different 15 man team sports (gaelic football, hurling, and rugby) for the interests of young players.

Again due to demographics, splitting our youngsters across those four disciplines virtually rules out certain regions of the country as there are a number of regions where, by tradition, there is one sport.

When is the last time a Kerry man played soccer for Ireland? Or a boy who went to a South Dublin private school? Now consider how many of those athletes perhaps could have gone on to be good enough to play soccer internationally, but didn't because of their chosen (or not even in some cases) discipline?

The Eircom League is improving, and at a decent rate. You only need to take a look at results in Europe to see that. Ideally, we could retain some more of our younger players for longer, we need to build an proper footballing academy. Not just to develop players, but so we don't have hoards of 17-19 year olds coming back from England with shattered dreams and poor educations.

More TV coverage and sponsorship is required. But care needs to be given to ensure that TV coverage will not cripple attendances. The league needs more exposure.

People need to go out and see it. I used to get to go to a game every month or so on a Friday night. I didn't follow a particular team but went with a couple of friends who did for the laugh. And it was. I don't really have the time now but there are plenty that do, but aren't bothered.

For this to happen, the apparent hooligan aspect, which seems somewhat prevalent according to reports on this board alone, needs to be sorted out.

Some current supporters need to get off their high horses and lose their snobbish attitude. It's only driving people away.

Farces regarding the rules, which has been a huge thing this year, need to be sorted. It is incredibly unprofessional, by all involved. Mistakes happen, but they can certainly be done without when you are trying to build a reputation for yourselves.

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

(see TheJollyRodgers posts good love him).

He was on my ignore list.

Just reading some of his comments there. :rolleyes:

Magic Pips

Jivin Turkey wrote:

People need to get a proper perspective on how good Irish soccer can be...

Nice post!

Imagine the amount of money spent on the English premier league, even if 1/2 that was spent on EL imagine the difference it would make!

Guy:Incognito

Magic Pips wrote:

Nice post!

Imagine the amount of money spent on the English premier league, even if 1/2 that was spent on EL imagine the difference it would make!

But where would half that amount of money come from? We have roughly 1/15th of their population.

gimmick

^ I think he meant even if half the money that Irish people throw at the Premiership were to stay at home it would make a difference?

And if thats not what he menat, its still a valid point.

_blank_

I think he means half the money spent by people in Ireland on getting to and attending games in other jurisdictions, not to mention the buying of the merchandise of clubs from other jurisdictions.

Zebra3

Magic Pips wrote:

Confession: i now FA about the eircom league.

Is there any Footballing model in a country with around 4 million population sustaining a decent footballing league?

This thread is for discussion on how to progress Irish soccer, not for hardcore EL follows bitching.

be constructive people...

Well, here's the UEFA rankings for each league: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html

Here's how the league performed in Europe this season (not inc. Intertoto): http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/ccoef2007.html

Not bad. 20th though a couple of leagues below us still have teams in this season's comps. Imagine if we had facilities and supporter numbers like they have! So the league is doing really well imo despite poor facilities and lack of investment.

Think of what a load of 6-10,000 all-seaters (all coverered, no obstructive views!!!) along with proper tv facilities would do for the league.

The Volt

For a start the FAI need to decide what they're doing. They don't seem to have a clue at the moment. If they're going to go ahead with this FAI Premiership then does that mean there'll be one team left over with no league? Is it logical to have teams like Kilkenny in the same division as the likes of Derry and Cork?

Another thing they need to work on is consistancy in their punishments( i.e. the whole Derry City playing a suspended player incident).

mada999

seansouth wrote:

not to mention the buying of the merchandise of clubs from other jurisdictions.

I was going to buy a Dundalk jersey, then I seen the price was 50 euro. I think that is a bit much for a Diadora jersey..maybe if it was a more reasonable 30 i'd probably buy it, as i would imagine other people would too..

MrJoeSoap

mada999 wrote:

I think that is a bit much for a Diadora jersey..

What difference does that make? They're hardly worse "quality" than Nike or Adidas, are they?

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

A decent rule book would be a start.

Then an organisation with the balls to implement to the letter.

Would Shels not be relegated then? under the lying and cheating part where debts are concerened, mainly with the tax office and paying players part? UEFA Licensing i think its called
Rovers were relegated for the same issues.

Yes a rule book for all would be nice. not just a rule book for one "we will conisider the arbitrators verdiect after friday, for the good of the league" but a rule book for all.


kdjac

Blackjack

Magic Pips wrote:

Is there any Footballing model in a country with around 4 million population sustaining a decent footballing league?

Debatable as regards decency, but Scotland has a population of about 4 Million, and more local football teams than you could shake a stick at. Practically every crossroads has a football team with a reasonable following.

mada999

MrJoeSoap wrote:

What difference does that make? They're hardly worse "quality" than Nike or Adidas, are they?

Erm...yeah they ARE worse "quality" than Nike and Adidas jersey...

MrJoeSoap

You could splash out an extra few quid on a match-used jersey!

http://www.dundalkfc.com/News/061107_JerseyAuction.html

bohsman

mada999 wrote:

Erm...yeah they ARE worse "quality" than Nike and Adidas jersey...

Im sure that doesnt stop the likes of Leeds and Italy charging 50+ for them.

SectionF

mada999 wrote:

Erm...yeah they ARE worse "quality" than Nike and Adidas jersey...

How?

Töpher

mada999 wrote:

Erm...yeah they ARE worse "quality" than Nike and Adidas jersey...

Damn, those Roma jersies are poor quality.

SectionF

And don't get me started on Lazio...

mada999

SectionF wrote:

How?

erm, the quality of the material and the quality of the design....
there is an obvious difference in quality between a Liverpool, Arse, or a Chelski jersey and a Dundalk jersey...my 2 cents...

As i said before if the jersey was 30 euro's i prob would buy it, but 50 is a bit much..

MrJoeSoap

mada999 wrote:

erm, the quality of the material and the quality of the design....

Design maybe, quality hardly.

As i said before if the jersey was 30 euro's i prob would buy it, but 50 is a bit much..

http://dundalkfc.com/Photos/Players/TrevorVaughan2.jpg

I don't see anything wrong with that.

redspider

We've discussed this many times before.

In terms of comparisons, look at Denmark, doing better, Scotland as mentioned, and Portugal would have a lower GNP/GDP and is doing quite well thank you very much even with Spain next door. I gues being a colonial power of Brazil themselves does help a bit.

Blackjack wrote:

Scotland has a population of about 4 Million, and more local football teams than you could shake a stick at.

Exactly, an ideal benchmark the league in Ireland is Scotland. Celtic, Rangers, Heart, Aberdeen, Hibs, we are a long way back from any of those.

I dont care which club does it but I would like to see one club dominate and do well in Europe and pull all others with it. Not good necessarily for the others but perhaps it could 'raise all boats'. Shelboune, well and good.

It will have to go back to a Winter league though.

Redspider

MrJoeSoap

redspider wrote:

It will have to go back to a Winter league though.

No, no, no. A winter league is not a way forward. The league has come so far since the advent of summer football it just wouldn't make any sense.

gimmick

redspider wrote:

It will have to go back to a Winter league though.

No, it doesnt. But out of interest, why?

Reasons for Summer Football
- Less games postponed due to frozen/waterlogged pitches
- No coincidence that since the crossover to summer football, European reslts are far far better

Against
- 2 or 3 matches might clash with a big GAA Championship clash
- Traditional season August - May appeals to people better
- No Xmas fixture.

To me, someone who has seen the changeover, the pros FAAAAR outweight the negative.

_blank_

It doesn't have to change for a while yet, not until it's affecting our teams that are competing in the group stages of the European Competitions.

It is no coincidence that since the switch our teams have had a bit of an edge on opponents in these games.

That and the fact that I like the sunshine and warmth better than freezing my ass off in a deserted Tolka Park (or the Phoenix Park, wherever we play next season).

Bateman

seansouth wrote:

freezing my ass off in a deserted Tolka Park (or the Phoenix Park, wherever we play next season).

Which, strangely enough, is what we'll all be doing tonight. :rolleyes:

MrJoeSoap

Freezing? Yes.
Deserted? Hope not!