Which bank?

trixter

I am looking for a bank here in ireland, I understand that there are factors such as where are the money machines and all that, which can influence decisions, however I was wondering if anyone knew of a bank that charged no fees. I am morally opposed to paying someone to hold my money for me, but banks are largely required for things like direct debit of monthly bills, in my case wire transfers for payments to me, and other silly things.

Thanks

betelgeuse

I'm with Bank of Ireland. If you do three transactions per quarter using their '365' service (on the phone or online) then fees for that quarter are waived. The only catch is you have to do the transactions manually i.e. direct debits / standing orders don't count. In fact I think you need only transfer €1 back and forth between your current and savings accounts to be eligible, but don't quote me on that (I'd normally make 10-15 payments online every quarter on average).

The other way to qualify is to have a continuous balance of a few thousand euro in your account at all times, but I don't bother with that.

trixter

betelgeuse wrote:

I'm with Bank of Ireland. If you do three transactions per quarter using their '365' service (on the phone or online) then fees for that quarter are waived. The only catch is you have to do the transactions manually i.e. direct debits / standing orders don't count. In fact I think you need only transfer €1 back and forth between your current and savings accounts to be eligible, but don't quote me on that (I'd normally make 10-15 payments online every quarter on average).

The other way to qualify is to have a continuous balance of a few thousand euro in your account at all times, but I don't bother with that.

I looked at their page today and it said 500EUR minimum balance to avoid fees which isnt that bad. 3 transactions is 1 per month, which still the fact that it has to be manual, and the fact that I really dont have much to pay may make that a problem. I dont think that 500EUR is that steep to deal with and had considered them, but figured I would ask others to know what they have found out rather than finding out later that I missed something and cost myself time/aggrivation/whatever.

StandnDeliver

loads of people have changed there banks from aib and bank of ireland in the last year to Ulster bank and Permanent tsb.Also there is a new bank opened called bank of scotland havent heard much about them.

trixter

StandnDeliver wrote:

loads of people have changed there banks from aib and bank of ireland in the last year to Ulster bank and Permanent tsb.Also there is a new bank opened called bank of scotland havent heard much about them.

people have switched, do you know why? If its something as simple as interest rates, that doesnt bother me that much because I can get > 5% on savings elsewhere, and dont plan on a savings account here (I havent seen anything that high here).

As for bank of scotland, assuming its the same and I cant believe that its not, I have used them in the past when I lived in Edinburgh, they werent bad.

I will investigate ulster and permanant.

Thanks

Tree

you should prolly try the banks and pensions forum, or after hours, you'd get more traffic and feedback

trixter

I guess that might be better, I am still stuck in the american mentality, where there is so much land to cover and each state has different laws, so things like banks arent always national, and often the smaller ones give better terms. Ireland being smaller, is more likely to have all the same banks pretty much everywhere, and since cork is the second largest city, its a good chance that all those banks are here.

I have to wait anyway, cause I cant open an account until I get some bill sent to my address, and cant get something sent to my address until I get an account since most everyone wants direct debit. Catch 22. I think I found a loophole in that, so who knows. bleh opening a new account is almost as silly as paying tax because your rent is too high. I mean seriously, the landlord pays tax on the rent they receive, why should the person paying the rent also have to pay an additional tax?!! This really just harms families that rent. but I digress.

Jack B. Badd

You could always ask the bank to send an official letter to your residence and then bring it in a proof of address, couldn't you?

hunnymonster

I have a bog standard current account with AIB and so long as I make one transaction with my laser card every quarter I don't pay fees. No way to get out of the government duty on the card though.

trixter

Jack B. Badd wrote:

You could always ask the bank to send an official letter to your residence and then bring it in a proof of address, couldn't you?

that isnt listed as acceptable proof, but it is an interesting idea.

Tree

many work places will issue a letter saying they have employed someone that ppl can bring to the bank, usually a bank that company uses but it's a start

trixter

hunnymonster wrote:

I have a bog standard current account with AIB and so long as I make one transaction with my laser card every quarter I don't pay fees. No way to get out of the government duty on the card though.

What is this duty on the card you speak of and why do I have the feeling that this is going to be insanely silly since each time you use the card you pay VAT and the govt gets money out of the transaction, not to mention if the sale results in profit the business gets taxed, if its used to pay payroll the income off that is taxed, etc.

Duty on a debit card seems really silly, what is next duty on using paper cash, justified by the governments inability to track cash transactions? Then what, a tax on money saved in a pickle jar burried in your back yard, justified by causing the government to print more currency since what you have isnt in circulation? When does the madness end?

Ok I am done (for now)

Jack B. Badd

Govt duty on a credit card is 40e a year, I presume it's less for a debit card but maybe not.

trixter

Tree wrote:

many work places will issue a letter saying they have employed someone that ppl can bring to the bank, usually a bank that company uses but it's a start

I need that too, but since I own the company where I work its really a letter from me (although to keep my name off it I will have one of my employees sign it

The letter proves source of funds (alledgly proving I am not a terrorist in disguise or laundering money).

I need a utility bill to prove residence (I am using my medical insurance policy, which should count, I have to buy that because I am not working here, so to stay past 3 months I have to buy private insurance here). A bank statement from a US bank (or really any foreign nation) addresses to me in ireland would qualify as well, which seems silly. It seems I just need something, anything, from a business to me, which can be forged quite easily - even with no proof it was mailed since you dont have to bring the envelope, and even if you did you could substitute a canceled postmarked envelope that uses a clear window with your own letter inside. sigh.

Finally I need proof of identity, to prove the two aforementioned documents mention me (or at least someone with the same or a highly similar name ...).

Its all smoke and mirrors, the illusion of security. All it does is harass honest people, and does little for what its intended. A serious criminal would easily see ways around all this, just as I have done, its very basic.

trixter

Jack B. Badd wrote:

Govt duty on a credit card is 40e a year, I presume it's less for a debit card but maybe not.

uhhh there is duty on credit cards too?! madness pure madness, make it harder for people to spend their money, so the economy slows down and employers have a harder time hiring people, which ultimately gives fewer people money to spend, which causes an even further slow down and so on.

Or is this just a way to get back at those people who barely have enough money to pay their bills, like rent, heating in the winter, food, etc.

Either way its stupid, and makes me not want to get a bank account at all, but alas I need one for wire transfers so I can get more money

I fail to see the logic in it all, and thought that america was highly stupid in all the silly little taxes (most of which are hidden to consumers) that we had, I see now that its not that different over here ...

Who voted for these taxes? Who held their representatives responsible when they passed these taxes? I cant vote here, and its unlikely that I will be able to for at least 5 years (when I can become a citizen), but everyone else that can vote, should - and use the representatives voting record as basis for whom to vote for, if they do something stupid or silly vote em out.

Jack B. Badd

Sock, mattress, solution.

trixter

Jack B. Badd wrote:

Sock, mattress, solution.

There will eventually be a tax on that, since more paper currency has to be printed to compensate for people doing that. Give it time ...

hunnymonster

AFAIK it's 10 euro for ATM and Debit cards and 40 for credit cards. It was only introduced a couple of years ago and every year some political party suggests doing away with it.

blue banana

hunnymonster wrote:

I have a bog standard current account with AIB and so long as I make one transaction with my laser card every quarter I don't pay fees. No way to get out of the government duty on the card though.

You also need to make a transaction on 24hour banking (internet or phone) every quarter to avail of this eg pay VISA card bill. There is no minimum amount required in your account.

blue banana

hunnymonster wrote:

AFAIK it's 10 euro for ATM and Debit cards and 40 for credit cards. It was only introduced a couple of years ago and every year some political party suggests doing away with it.

I'm with AIB too and AFAIK (unless it has changed recently) If you use your debit card for laser transactions but not for ATM transactions the stamp duty is €10. If you use it for both laser and ATM transactions the stamp duty is €20.

TSB won over a lot of customers due to their "free banking", they might be worth a look.

el Bastardo

From AIBs website: "Currently EUR 10 per card applies where the card is used for either an ATM/in branch transaction or a Point of Sale transaction, and EUR 20 per card applies where the card is used for both. Government Stamp Duty of EUR 0.15 applies to each cheque."

And €40 for a credit card.

Our greedy government likes to think that people with plastic are rich, so they tax them accordingly.

I switched from AIB to Perm-TSB a few years ago because I got tired of being stiffed for fees just to keep their shareholders happy. Free banking here is mostly as free as free lunches.

trixter

el Bastardo wrote:

From AIBs website: "Currently EUR 10 per card applies where the card is used for either an ATM/in branch transaction or a Point of Sale transaction, and EUR 20 per card applies where the card is used for both. Government Stamp Duty of EUR 0.15 applies to each cheque."

And €40 for a credit card.

Our greedy government likes to think that people with plastic are rich, so they tax them accordingly.

I switched from AIB to Perm-TSB a few years ago because I got tired of being stiffed for fees just to keep their shareholders happy. Free banking here is mostly as free as free lunches.

ahh it keeps getting worse, a tax on writing a cheque?! I am just gonna see what western union charges for money transfers, that may be better in the end :P

I would have thought that the government would have understood that people will spend their money at shops and whatnot which they get VAT (and duty on some imported goods) and by making it easier for them to access that money more goods and services would be purchased, thus more revenue. This is just silly to charge people a fee to have access to their money and be able to spend it.

Kinda makes you wonder whose money the government thinks it really is ...

legalimmigrant

Four out of ten ATM transactions in the US carry a $1.50 or higher surcharge.

Among the other things you can get stiffed for at a US retail bank: not using your account enough; visiting a branch in person; simply having an account and being charged monthly; being charged monthly if you have less than some arbitrary dollar amount in your funds.

To answer your particular question: your name can and should be on your phone/cable/electric bill. If it's not, phone them and get it fixed. Any one of these bills and your passport is enough to get you a current account at the Permanent TSB on North Main Street.

The requirement to prove that you're capable of receiving mail at the address you provide is because of national and international anti-laundering regulations. ALL banks in the US have the same requirements.

Ireland and the US are both near the bottom of the table for overall tax burden. Ireland's slightly higher. But hey - we have health care and welfare payments.

Yes, you are no longer in the United States. Things are different. Is there any particular need to start thread after thread complaining about it?

Jack B. Badd

legalimmigrant wrote:

Yes, you are no longer in the United States. Things are different. Is there any particular need to start thread after thread complaining about it?

Agreed. This thread is off-topic and pointless. Advice has been given on the original question. Everything after that appears to be bitching and moaning...

trixter

legalimmigrant wrote:

Four out of ten ATM transactions in the US carry a $1.50 or higher surcharge.

Among the other things you can get stiffed for at a US retail bank: not using your account enough; visiting a branch in person; simply having an account and being charged monthly; being charged monthly if you have less than some arbitrary dollar amount in your funds.

which is different than a government tax. Bank fees can be avoided, in both the US and it seems here (as people have pointed out specific banks that do not have much by way of fees). Even the foreign atm fee in the US can be gotten rid of (there are banks that will reimburse you if the foreign bank charges you a fee).

My comments were specifically about the government taxes and how those harm the economy in my opinion. Private corporate fees are different, people volunteer to pay those, taxes dont leave room for competition to avoid or reduce those fees since the government has a monopoly.

legalimmigrant wrote:

To answer your particular question: your name can and should be on your phone/cable/electric bill. If it's not, phone them and get it fixed. Any one of these bills and your passport is enough to get you a current account at the Permanent TSB on North Main Street.

that assumes a certain living situation, which at present isnt a good assumption. I dont have a phone other than my mobile and voip stuff. That wont generate a bill. Since I am in short term housing at the moment I wont have a cable or elec bill, and one wouldnt expect it to be transfered when you are living in a self catering place. I dont want to wait until Janurary when I goto full time (and in a different unit) to open a bank account.

legalimmigrant wrote:

The requirement to prove that you're capable of receiving mail at the address you provide is because of national and international anti-laundering regulations. ALL banks in the US have the same requirements.

Actually you dont have to prove your address, which is nice because I didnt have a thing with my name and that address when I opened the last two US bank accounts I have. So aparently not all banks in the US have that requirement (and that requirement isnt supported by US law anyway, just proof of identity and a verbal explanation of source of funds is required per the patriot act).

legalimmigrant wrote:

Yes, you are no longer in the United States. Things are different. Is there any particular need to start thread after thread complaining about it?

Other than to bait you into saying incorrect things (again) and correcting you? No not really. I also dont see the ponit of you trolling after my posts and stating incorrect facts then saying (yet again) that I shouldnt have posted anything here in the first place.

If you dont like what I post, dont read it, dont respond to it, and certainly stop trolling about it. The mere fact that this is not the first time you have done this makes me think that you have something to prove (to whom I have no idea) and that you feel compelled to reply with incorrect 'facts' trying to put me (and quite possibly others) down, at least in your mind. My guess is that you get some self esteem boost out of doing this, but that is only a guess.

trixter

Jack B. Badd wrote:

Agreed. This thread is off-topic and pointless. Advice has been given on the original question. Everything after that appears to be bitching and moaning...

Converations are funny things, they evolve into other things. Which I think is good, if there was one and only one point and they didnt evolve then there would be less information sharing.

For example, becuase of you and illegalimmigrant this thread has evoled into a discussion about bitching and moaning.

I do see your point though, and understand much more about the last month or so now. Thanks for enlightening me.

trixter

I have been thingking about stuff since I last posted, anbd perhaps I was a bit curt, although illegalimmigrant has done this in the past to me in other threads so I stand by that post.

I did not come to Ireland expecting to pay less, infact I came here knowing it would cost more than where I previously lived. I did not come here because I felt I had to (ie work or other reasons) becuase I can really live anywhere I want to (so long as there is at least dialup internet).

However I am generally a cheap guy, I would rather see money in my pocket than the governments. Largely becuase I believe goverments everywhere waste money and the money can be better spent by the individuals choosing what they need rather than the government mandating what they need. Take insurance, I have to buy it here for immigration purposes, I have no problem with that I see it as a tax (I never goto the doctor, and pay out of pocket for things like eye exams and the like). But its 30 EUR/mo and I would wager that the tax is much higher for medical in ireland. Makes you wonder why private insurance is so cheap (hint - competition, however sparse it may be).

I started balking at the taxes not because I care about them that much (I have paid much more per annum for similar services in the past) but because they are taxes that harm the economy. Certain taxes are essential to the proper working of a government. Government representatives (who are supposed to represent the people not have their own fiefdoms) should be paid to some degree for their services, military personel should definately be paid, if they didnt exist there is a greater chance of some hostil force doing evil things (unless of course its a militia and the will of the people are behind soverignty and freedom).

I dont mean to minimize the nature of government, nor its importance in the day to day lives of the individuals (largely the acts of government are not noticed, such as negotiating trade and other commerce related things which create jobs between itself and foregin countries). But when taxes are placed upon things that in my opniion damage the economy I speak out, in the hope that others will think about why that specific tax exists and why that tax may or may not be beneficial. Should someone propose a compelling reason why a tax exists and the benefit for that tax, I will certainly consider it, however when people just say that its complaining and appear to disregard the arguments against it, I will respond in kind.

I believe in free market economics, proof that it works is permanant TSB and their free banking. They have gotten a lot of people to switch banks simply becuase they dont charge the fees that others appear to. It is my belief that people inherently want to keep the money they earn.

While social programs may seem attractive, the cost they bear on the economy may be more than the society behind them may want to bear, and sometimes those costs are hidden. State sponsored insurance for example, seems attractive, however its not free. The costs that employeers and individuals alike pay to have this insurance comes directly out of salaries and jobs. Then there are those that see this as a way to take advantage, and structure things so they dont pay tax (while this is largely the illegal trade of say drugs and prostitution there are legitimate businesses that otherwise dont pay tax - yet take advantage of the services afforded to them on the labour of others that do pay tax).

I personally dont care about 10-20 EUR/year, money in itself means little to me, largely because I dont work, nor do I have to. This is not because I am special or gifted, but because I see the world differently than a lot of others. Part of the way I see the world differently, is that I object (often loudly) to paying silly fees. I dontl ike the 1% or whtaever it is tax stamp that is required when you rent in excess of about 1600 eur a month. I object to paying taxes to a monopoly that decides arbitrarily that I must pay for the priviledge of spending the money that I earned. I object to taxation in general unless it can be demonstrated that it goes to a good purpose, and general funds are not a good purpose in my opinion.

My hope is that others will see some of the sillyness in paying these taxes and hold their representatives responsible for those taxes, remember it is your money that is spent in taxes, not the governments. I cant vote yet, and for the next 5 years I wont be able to, however I can try to influence the minds of those that can, and I will endeavor to influence people that can vote, just as I have done in the past where I cant vote (currently only 2 nations).

Anyway, I am now done with the tangent about taxes, if anyone has any suggestions about banks I will be glad to hear about them, really my main purpose is to get wire transfers from one of my employees in the US so I can spend my money here. I really dont care about a lot of other things, although using a debit card is nice because I can buy stuff online (although I have 2 accounts in the US I can use if I have to).