BMW C1 125cc or 200cc

Cionn

I am facing a commute from north Dublin to Sandyford and I'm thinking of getting one of the BMW C1's either the 125 or 200 version. I know they are out of production but I don't see anything else that meets my criteria (including keeping the wife happy).

The reason behind the decision is that I think they seem to be the safest thing on two wheels at the moment. I'm not entertaining a proper bike/scooter and it doesn't bother me that I'll look like a fool on it either.

My questions though are
Can the C200 version be restricted so that someone with a provisional licence can ride it legally on the street ?
Can you buy any of these in Ireland anyone seen one recently?
What is the main area of damage to look out for when viewing secondhand one ?

Any other information would be greatly appreciated as my knowledge in this area is barely above zero. I have been looking into going to the UK or Germany where there seems to be a selection available even if its a small selection.

Krusty_Clown

Firstly, the license restriction is not based on the size of the engine (I'm assuming you're over 18), but on the power of the engine, so you need to research how much power these are putting out (plenty of information in the stickies at the top of this forum about licensing). The 200 may already be learner legal.

Secondly, your assumption that the C1s are safer than other bikes or scooters may be misguided. I'm not declaring that C1s are unsafe, but I'm just not sure that I would like to make that commute on the m50 every day in one of them, with the high-winds that you get exposed to on some stretches of that road (roll-cage and air-bags aside). Hopefully someone with some experience of the vehicle will come along and set me straight!

Of course, on a provisional license you're legally not allowed to travel on the M50, so that may not be a real concern.

There's one in active use in my area (South County Dublin), but haven't seen any in the shops. There are only three official BMW motorrad bike dealers in the country, so a quick ring-around shouldn't take too long.. Otherwise, you'll have to ring around the non-BMW bike Shops. BikeWorld (:eek: ) might be worth a try, as they've been known to carry the F650. There are none listed on CBG.ie, however, there is one listed on BuyandSell. So check it out.. You may find some on eBay, but they will likely require travel to see/purchase. There are 301 of them listed on Mobil.de.

Given that there is a huge amount of plastics on these things, you'll really need to have a look under the plastics to see if there is any structural damage.. Check the roof for scratches!?!:p Look for tell-tale signs of the bike having been dropped, i.e. check the extremities (exhausts, handle-grips, mirrors, plastics, etc.. Most of this document is still applicable, even though your bike has a roof: http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

Maybe you should ask to get your own forum?

Garibaldi

Just a small point: since Bikeworld send all Beemers that come into their workshop over to Duffy's for servicing (so they told me when I attempted to leave the GS in with them), you're probably better off going directly to Duffy's.

subway

i dont know about your other half,
but mine would be none too happy perched on the back of one of these monstrosities.
tbh, your better off with a car as you will NOT be filtering on one of these.
theyres just too much structure to be flicking past wing mirrors

read this page -
http://www.kevinboone.com/mc-c1-200.html

seems the 200 is not learner legal in the uk and since we copy thir laws (i think) will not be learner legal here

Wossack

The c1 200 is actually, 175cc. Its learner legal, producing 12.4kW, and the power to weight is ~0.06kW/kg (well within restricted A licence requirements). Its too big for an A1 license though (cc wise).

Wish we had the UK's laws...

Cionn

Thanks for the response guys,
My commute will be accross the city but not via the M50 don't think I would trust myself or others on that road.

subway: My commute will be from Sutton to Sandyford a car would not be an option. I'd become a weekend dad, I'm only prepared to do that if I can start dating again during the week. At this stage of my life I wouldn't fancy my chances of getting anything but pity from a woman.

Wossack "Wish we had the UK's laws..." I will try to find out whether the C1 200 is legal or not. I guess I need to look into the different licences to see what's available to me.

Cheers all

Idleater

Cionn wrote:

I guess I need to look into the different licences to see what's available to me.

Thats the easy part and I can answer that for you now.

Assuming you do not already hold a licence for category A1 or A, if you have a full car licence, then you are qualified to drive a <50cc moped.

If not, then you have to start off with a provisional bike licence, for which you have to do the theory test etc.

Having done the theory test, and presuming you have passed it, you can apply for A1 AND A if you are over 18 years of age, and only A1 if you are under 18 and over 16 years of age.

A1 and A differ in the cc of motorcycle that you may drive and both are limited to .16kw/kg AND a maximum power rating of 25kw.

I would recommend applying for both A1 AND A (provided you are over 18) and when you do the test do it on an A classified bike.

L.

Cionn

Thanks nereid
I've downloaded the necessary forms and will apply as soon as possible for the licence and Theory. I have a full drivers licence since 1996 , I only squeeze the 18 year old category by 18 years , man thats depressing just realised I am twice the age I was leaving school.
I have called a few places about whether they sell the C1 and the standard response is go to the UK.
Thanks again all.

Kinetic^

Would love to get one of these babies too.

What insurance group does this bike come under?

subway

Cionn wrote:

Thanks for the response guys,
My commute will be accross the city but not via the M50 don't think I would trust myself or others on that road.

subway: My commute will be from Sutton to Sandyford a car would not be an option. I'd become a weekend dad, I'm only prepared to do that if I can start dating again during the week. At this stage of my life I wouldn't fancy my chances of getting anything but pity from a woman.

Wossack "Wish we had the UK's laws..." I will try to find out whether the C1 200 is legal or not. I guess I need to look into the different licences to see what's available to me.

Cheers all

no offence,
but why dont you just get a proper bike and some rain gear?

theres a lad around sutton that has a c1 and all i ever see is him stuck in traffic.
i feel sory for the poor guy,
fair enough he can wear his suit on the thing instead of getting changed at work,
thats fine for a 15 minute stint, but if your travelling for an hour or so by bike youll get pissed off being stuck with the cars.
you wont get up the rock road or through north strand on a c1.

Cionn

Subway I suppose I know my own limits and that means a proper bike is beyond me at this stage. As for the north strand I wouldn't go near there it would be east link and then through Donnybrook and over the rise for me. I used to do the drive a number of years ago and I know the route I would need to take. Mostly off the beaten track, my only issue would be East wall and Stillorgan entrance to Sandyford.
What I am probably saying is the C1 is as agile as I am and built as robustly.

PS I checked out the www.mobile.de site out and they are selling them in Germany for as much as € 7,600 :eek: :eek:
Admittadly only a few hundred km's on the clock but big money for what it is. You can even get ones that have been only registered in 2006.

The search continues I still think its my best bet.

Garibaldi

Does it have to be a C1? There *are* other options, ya know. The Benelli Adiva is one, and I'm pretty sure I saw either a Piaggio or a Gilera scooter with a roof a while back.

Cionn

Garibaldi: there is a review of the Benelli herehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2002/08/02/emfben03.xml it seems to have only a plastic roof which offers no safety value as for the other brands you suggested I couldn't find anything on the web with a roof.

C1 still has it for me.

subway

im at a loss now.
your afraid to drive a 50cc bike because itll be too much for you,
so youre looking to buy a 176cc bike thats harder to maneure than any other bike around, thats top heavy and subject to dangerous winds - drag, cross and slipstream.

forgive me, but even contemplating a bike that costs 7.600 and a trip to germany plus vrt at the end is a joke.
get a moped and learn how to drive it, pay a few hundred for proper lessons and then see if you still dont think you can drive a bike.

bying a c1 so as to exempt yourself from safety considerations is a cop out.
if your on 2 wheels your a biker and you have the same responsibilities as the rest of us,
your not driving a skinny car, not by a long shot.

Garibaldi

Well, unless your real name is Sete Crashernau, I don't think you'll be flipping the bike onto its roof too often.

You do know that you're still required to wear a helmet on the C1, right?

Cionn

subway wrote:

im at a loss now.
your afraid to drive a 50cc bike because itll be too much for you,

No never said 50 would be too much for me. I just have no interest in a 50cc machine

subway wrote:

so youre looking to buy a 176cc bike thats harder to maneure than any other bike around, thats top heavy and subject to dangerous winds - drag, cross and slipstream.

Most of my driving would be in traffic with the odd opportunity to get a bit of space on the road as in when I get to the southside on the way to the office I will be going against the general run of traffic going into the city centre therefore should be able to make up a bit of time. Dangerous winds are an issue granted but on the surburban route I plan to take shouldn't be too much of a problem, never intended to take the bike on M50 or alike.

subway wrote:

forgive me, but even contemplating a bike that costs 7.600 and a trip to germany plus vrt at the end is a joke.

Never comtemplated paying that much just saw bikes for that much. I agree if you paid that much it would be a joke. I am by my nature a cheapskate

subway wrote:

get a moped and learn how to drive it, pay a few hundred for proper lessons and then see if you still dont think you can drive a bike.

bying a c1 so as to exempt yourself from safety considerations is a cop out.

Personally I think I'm just approaching the idea conservatively don't want a full bike never have. I'm an automatic man (for the moment anyway until I get educated differently)

subway wrote:

if your on 2 wheels your a biker and you have the same responsibilities as the rest of us,
your not driving a skinny car, not by a long shot.

Don't plan on causing or being in any accidents thats my main priority.
I reckon I'll look like a fool get there in one piece but most importantly get there safe and quicker than either Dart/Luas or Car.

Cheers the the feedback though.

Cionn

just saw how long my post was it has lunchtime written all over it.

Pigeon Reaper

Before you jump into the C1 you should try get some lessons on a normal moped even if it's off the roadways. The C1 is more exposed than a car so see if you like this idea before taking the plunge. Ideally you'd try out the C1 but unfortunately this isn't possible in Ireland.

Krusty_Clown

Plenty of other automatic options, like the Suzuki Burgman or some kind of Honda Silverwing. No roof, but you'd pick them up a lot cheaper than the C1, and I'd imagine in a spill they'd be just as safe. You could always try something like this:

Garibaldi

A mail-order bride with an umbrella? Could've used one of those this morning.

Hotblack Desiato

Krusty_Clown wrote:

No roof, but you'd pick them up a lot cheaper than the C1, and I'd imagine in a spill they'd be just as safe.

Gah, I'm sick of this 'motorbikes dangerous, mopeds safe' theory, it's a load of crap!
Any vehicle on the road is as safe as you make it.
Anyway the C1 was crash tested and actually passed German regulations for use without a helmet (not here though due to our 'enlightened' legislators)

Krusty_Clown

ninja900 wrote:

Gah, I'm sick of this 'motorbikes dangerous, mopeds safe' theory, it's a load of crap!

That's actually the point I was making, albeit in a roundabout way. Scooters are as safe as the C1, and the C1 isn't any safer than any other two wheeled vehicle (if A=B, and B=C, then A=C. )
But evidently I was wrong about the C1.. I wonder about the helmet thing though.. Just because a helmet isn't necessarily required in Germany, does it make the vehicle any safer, or are you just less likely to have a head injury?

In a collision, I kind of like the idea of being thrown clear (even though it's not a guarantee).

Hotblack Desiato

It was approved for use (in Germany, and some other EU countries, but not here - and Germany is hyper-safety) without a lid because in crash tests your risk of head injury is about the same as in a car

That's not a guarantee though because a leading cause of death of car occupants is... head injury

Ever have a good look at a C1's mudguard? It's high-density foam designed to act as a crumple zone. It's also got side guards for your head and 2 seatbelts to stop your head wandering too far away from them. There are car vs. C1 crash test vids somewhere on the German BMW bike site, can't be bothered looking for them now

I wouldn't buy one in a fit but it's an interesting project to create a 2-wheeler 'safe for cagers' but as long as it can still fall over, it's still a bike and a whole different bag of cats to control than a car.

Incidentally, although the sample size is small, I get the distinct impression that a lot of C1-ers are cagers at heart, with no idea about bike etiquette etc. and are just as prone to fail to indicate, cut up a bike etc. as a cage!!!
Perhaps the sensation of safety goes too far and turns into invincibility, like Volvo-man.

subway

ninja900 wrote:

a lot of C1-ers are cagers at heart, with no idea about bike etiquette etc. and are just as prone to fail to indicate, cut up a bike etc. as a cage!!!

my thoughts are identical to yourself,
any c1 owners ive seen have been sittting in traffic pretneding to be cars.
when they do try a bit of filtering its without indicating or a "lifesaver"

that why i was suggesting the op try a real bike and get some lessons before getting a c1.

Cionn

Subway: I'm starting to think that I may have to go down that route as finding a C1 seems to be a fruitful as trying to find hens teeth. negotiating traffic is the time saver I'm looking for.

galwaytt

There's a C1 for sale in Galway - contact Ivor's motorcycles, or I'll dig up the no for you...

As for the guy in stuck in traffic in a C1, that's just daft - the C1 is no longer/wider than any other bike - indeed, it's probably narrower than my Aprilia Atlantic 500, and I'd go through the eye of a needle on my AA500.

IIRC, you can ride my AA500 on a provisional..........

Hotblack Desiato

galwaytt wrote:

As for the guy in stuck in traffic in a C1, that's just daft

Is it really as easy to filter though as an equivalent bike - a lot of the time in really tight traffic I need to tilt the bike a good bit to get around an awkward van mirror, if I did this in a C1 I'd be hitting the roof or head guards off the van.

- the C1 is no longer/wider than any other bike - indeed, it's probably narrower than my Aprilia Atlantic 500

I used to own a CBR600 and parked every day beside a Burgman 250.
The Burgman was longer, higher, and wider than the CBR... I know which one I would rather have been on in really tight traffic. The Burgman probably weighed nearly as much as the CBR too :eek: though would have carried it a bit lower.

Cionn

galwaytt wrote:

There's a C1 for sale in Galway - contact Ivor's motorcycles, or I'll dig up the no for you...

As for the guy in stuck in traffic in a C1, that's just daft - the C1 is no longer/wider than any other bike - indeed, it's probably narrower than my Aprilia Atlantic 500, and I'd go through the eye of a needle on my AA500.

IIRC, you can ride my AA500 on a provisional..........

Thanks Galwaytt I was on to them during the week and they told me that they had one in stock for about 2 years but just sold it about a month ago.

Kinetic^

I'm currently driving a burgman 125 and it's a nice bike. I bought due to it's practicality. Bit boot space for 2 helmets. I got a Givi bacbbox put on it too which means I can store all my wet gear in there too.

hobie

very nice ..... bit of a step up from a Mobylette .....

http://bmwworld.com/models/concepts/c1_models.jpg

TonyS

Cionn, It's the best thing I ever bought. I may have one for sale in a couple of weeks. 01 200 Executive 7000 miles. Email me on tsw3@eircom.net if you want to discuss. Tony