Whitch is the best College

keynesian

In 2002, I didn't my leaving cert and the state was kind enough to give my a reader and tape recorder. I passed my leaving, which at the time was the only exam I ever passed. I have dyslexia, although in recent I have much improved in writing. I went on to do computers in NCI, and I had not trouble in getting an reader and scribe, although I was told for extra I'd have to fill out the founding form and then the disabilities lady got pregnant so help dried up. I dropped out having done a year.

I then when to TRINITY, thought I'd reach for the stars, do BESS, challenge myself. I didn't realize I would have to fight dyslexia, trinity and circumstance. I have never seen such blatant incompetence in my life. The college is a mess. Once I was told (implied) TRINITY was above the state and didn’t have give me a reader and scribe. I had to write to disability treating to sue. I was TOLD “oh, I can see you really are dyslexic”, dumb ***. That stress and fight was in the run up to my first exams. I was never told how to use stuff or if I was it was in writing, pages and pages of writing. Any way it goes on, some of it silly and some of it my fault for not camping out (no pun intended) the disabilities office.

She sister is going to Maynueth , she slightly dyslexic, and the stuff and attention she gets is unreal. Or at less they spend time on her, help her fill in form and get some one to talk her though it. I almost cried. She said it was ok college wasn’t for me, I guess it’s not, just keep working.

It’s cool that my writings getting better, I wish I was given that helping hand so maybe I could have been an Economic, the Macro book writing kind

CtrlSource

I found the Access Office in UCD pretty helpful.

You had to keep on their backs about stuff, but I was given extra time to write in exams (my arms would tire over the course of a 3 hour exam). I had a friend in college who had dyslexia and she was given some support, can't remember what exactly. There was some sort of policy on it.

As I write, google tells me that they've gone and renamed themselves the "Disability Support Service". I suppose it's a bit more descriptive.

Amz

I've not heard great things about TCD, but most of the other colleges are pretty good and the access/disability officers are generally quite approachable.

UCC are one of the best when it comes to accessibility.

In my experience though you have to chase up the people to get them to do things. You have to be able to tell them what you want and need.

Tell them you need a scribe, or a tape etc. Tell them that providing you with written correspondence isn't suitable.

The fact that you were mocked about your dyslexia, if I'm understanding you correctly, is quite shocking. I would be inclined to complain to the Students' Union about that.

keynesian

Amz wrote:

Tell them you need a scribe, or a tape etc. Tell them that providing you with written correspondence isn't suitable.

The fact that you were mocked about your dyslexia, if I'm understanding you correctly, is quite shocking. I would be inclined to complain to the Students' Union about that.

I had to threaten to sue to get Scribe and stuff. For some reason they thought photocopying cards were enough. I fill out the form on the CAO and handed in all relevant documentation.

I was so shocked I tried to put it out of my mind, plus I was told {SU} "yah, she's pity bad alright". She's gone now, hopefully out of disabilities.

I still have to ask for my €4k back, I had to leave caz of stress, under doctor's orders. The debate rages on in my head, should I go back to college. It dosen't help my old IT lecturer saying I should.

RainyDay

The Better Options Fair for students with Disability might be worth checking out.

keynesian

Thanks Rainyday.

but sh!t and damn I read it too late. Plus I may have started hekling.

I will check out AHEAD and DAWN.

Moonbeam

Did you go to the Higher education and disabilites conference in nci a few weeks ago?

If not can prob get you the relevent info.

Best friend is Dyslexic she did her degree in LIT college of art with out too much difficulty.

Did you record all your lectures etc?

keynesian

Moonbeam wrote:

Did you record all your lectures etc?

Sorry to sound sarcastic, but with what?

In many respects it was an unpropard year by me. First I should have rescearch want I need more and how to get it. I was under the misstaken belief that these things would be out lined on arrival(silly me). I so though that funding would be made available, but I was given the impression I was lucky to get anything.

Please keep the sujection/advice coming as I'm applying to get my fee back, that €4k, so if I wish I can start again.

Amz

What kind of supports and equipment did you use in secondary school that allowed you to get into the course in the first place?

I would imagine that Moonbeam is wondering if you used a tape recorder/dictaphone to record lectures so that you can listen back to them and not have to take notes during class time.

Unfortunately colleges/universities see you as an adult when you start and as such you're expected to have some sort of independence and ability to look after yourself and ask for what you want/need.

FranknFurter

To my mind, independence comes only from experience and education. It can be hard to get one without the other when your ability to understand the "basic" literature and advice is compromised.

There is a idea of "targeted assistance" that should be integrated into the process of secondary schooling of those with a relevant disability.

Its interesting, there was a project (I forget the name), in the mid 90's, where a teacher was chosen from several secondary schools and then trained to explain the details and expectations of college to any secondary school student, specifically with a disability who intended going.

It was very successful but it unfortunately became part of the job of a general school "guidance counsellor" project and ended up being so "general" that it became so diluted that the targeted aspect vanished and it was left to students to approach the counselor. Which you and I may say is alright, but for students with less confidence or ability to communicate is absolutely useless.

So now, unfortunately, you end up with a lot of students with disabilities attending colleges with no idea of what to expect. Not because they are of limited "ability" or independence, but rather because they have'nt been told what they will need to be "able" for.

There is a secondary school in Ballinteer (BCS) who have two teachers assigned to the 20+ students with disabilities in the (fully integrated) school, to ensure their disabled students have a full knowledge as to what to expect in college, and as a result the numbers who go on to third level education are higher and most have a lot less trouble in the colleges.
I went there myself, and went on to obtain my Masters degree without having to utilize or fight for much "specialist" assistance in the college I attended. Not because I was anything special, but because I was well informed and prepared by two experienced teachers.

I think there is a vital element lacking in secondary school that is affecting college students like the OP in a big way.

B

keynesian

Amz wrote:

What kind of supports and equipment did you use in secondary school that allowed you to get into the course in the first place?.

Non, till 6th year then, they highered a specail needs tutor, so for Business & Economic I got her the read the book onto tape. I was a good listnor and the teachs read the book in class. I don't have trouble with maths. I dropped french, got an exeption from the state & colleges.
Up untill the LC i failed or just passed my exams, this was very frusterating for my teachers I just got used to it.

Amz wrote:

I would imagine that Moonbeam is wondering if you used a tape recorder/dictaphone to record lectures so that you can listen back to them and not have to take notes during class time.

I access that point of it being a good idea & i have taking it on board. But mine was a question about funding, although now I have a iriver so I should quit my whining

Amz wrote:

Unfortunately colleges/universities see you as an adult when you start and as such you're expected to have some sort of independence and ability to look after yourself and ask for what you want/need.

You much understand that boards.ie is a new posiblity for me. I can interact with ppl though type {badly}, befor (if u could see me) i would have been like a guy in anepelect fit, getting worse as I wrote or read more on a page. Don't forget the head aches. Some stuff is easer to read then others and at different times. And yes I'm the guy looking at the pictures and lucky to get half the writing.

True is by the time i got to trinity, I had given up. I couldn't take the fight both internal to myself and exteral. I did ask directly for the big stuff, like reader and scrib, by time time I got that stuff, i had over looked the small stuff and was tired and medically sick.

keynesian

FranknFurter wrote:

I think there is a vital element lacking in secondary school that is affecting college students like the OP in a big way.

B

I was lucky I had that tutor for my 6th year but she was from the UK and knew little to nothing about appying for college. My "guidance counsellor" was surpriced I could fill out my CAO form. Last time I saw her, this was after I left NCI, her addvice was "college isn't for every one". Which I'm sure is a true statement, and give me pause for thought.

AHEAD called me back and simpathised. She gave this advice, DIT was for front in her mind, bigger colleges better then small. Speek to each college first and see what rescourse are available. Expect a lag time in funding, funding is move forth coming in the second year.

If I am to go back then I need to do a lot more research, which I have only just begun.

Amz

Would you consider getting screen reading software for your computer? Or speech reading software, where you speak into the computer and it learns to recognise your voice and puts what you speak into it on screen.

I've seen this in use in DCU so it might be worth looking into.

merritt

Amz wrote:

Would you consider getting screen reading software for your computer? Or speech reading software, where you speak into the computer and it learns to recognise your voice and puts what you speak into it on screen.

I've seen this in use in DCU so it might be worth looking into.

These are good ideas, Amz, but I think the main issue here for the OP is the provision of these supports in a timely manner rather than identifying what might work.

I work in this area so here's the drill.

• Anyone applying to college should tick the Disability box on the CAO form. This gets the ball rolling in terms of the HEIs (Higher Education Institutions) being prepared.
• If you are applying to one of the eight big institutions, you will be sent information about a Supplementary Application procedure which might be useful. Basically, if you can demonstrate that your dyslexia or other disability has stopped you from getting the points you deserve, the HEIs might let you in on lower points.
• When you get to college, you need to meet the Disability Officer to see what supports you might need. Some of this can be provided from the start (Learning Support, training in the use of specialist software). But we need to apply for funding for things like assistive technology, ongoing training, extra tutorials and so on. This funding comes from the Fund for Students with Disabilities and is done on an individual basis.
• You need to have an up-to-date Educational Psychologists report (done in the last three years). We need this for the funding application.
• These applications take a whlle to process, so don't expect it to be in place until after Christmas. However, if a student has a real need, we do our best to provide them with support (lend equipment, provide training).
• Once your application is accepted, you will automatically be renewed in 2nd, 3rd year etc until you leave that college. (If you change college, you have to go through the whole process again!).

I hope that helps.

The really important things is to have all of your documentation in order and get yourself to meet the Disability Oficer as early as possible to get the process started.

Good luck!

merritt

Amz wrote:

Would you consider getting screen reading software for your computer? Or speech reading software, where you speak into the computer and it learns to recognise your voice and puts what you speak into it on screen.

I've seen this in use in DCU so it might be worth looking into.

These are good ideas, Amz, but I think the main issue here for the OP is the provision of these supports in a timely manner rather than identifying what might work.

I work in this area so here's the drill.

• Anyone applying to college should tick the Disability box on the CAO form. This gets the ball rolling in terms of the HEIs (Higher Education Institutions) being prepared.
• If you are applying to one of the eight big institutions, you will be sent information about a Supplementary Application procedure which might be useful. Basically, if you can demonstrate that your dyslexia or other disability has stopped you from getting the points you deserve, the HEIs might let you in on lower points.
• When you get to college, you need to meet the Disability Officer to see what supports you might need. Some of this can be provided from the start (Learning Support, training in the use of specialist software). But we need to apply for funding for things like assistive technology, ongoing training, extra tutorials and so on. This funding comes from the Fund for Students with Disabilities and is done on an individual basis.
• You need to have an up-to-date Educational Psychologists report (done in the last three years). We need this for the funding application.
• These applications take a whlle to process, so don't expect it to be in place until after Christmas. However, if a student has a real need, we do our best to provide them with support (lend equipment, provide training).
• Once your application is accepted, you will automatically be renewed in 2nd, 3rd year etc until you leave that college. (If you change college, you have to go through the whole process again!).

I hope that helps.

The really important things is to have all of your documentation in order and get yourself to meet the Disability Oficer as early as possible to get the process started.

Good luck!

Boston

I feel I must defend trinity here a quote from the Trinity Student Disability Services (SDS).

Supports are provided following an individual assessment of need, and thus vary depending on the student's circumstances. The types of supports that SDS can provide include:
· Information and advice to students about managing fatigue and pacing their academic workload. These are vital strategies that can reduce the impact of the disability on academic performance.

· Extended library loans, so that it is possible to study in an environment that does not exacerbate fatigue and to pace studying.

· Photocopy cards, so it is possible to copy sections of books / articles rather than carrying the whole books, and to print notes. This will also enable the student to study in an environment that is less tiring. Photocopy cards are also important to reduce the volume of note-taking, since note-taking can exacerbate fatigue.

· Support with note-taking. Some students with certain conditions require a note-taker or alternative means of taking notes during lectures - a variety of solutions are provided by SDS, depending on the student's individual circumstances.

· Subject specific tuition / recapping may be provided if a student misses lectures for any extended period due to ill-health.

· Provision of assistive technology, such as a laptop computer to enable the student to study and access e-mail, notes etc when at home or in hospital. Some students also require specialist software or hardware.

· Exam accommodations including rest breaks, possible use of computer, a separate or smaller venue and extra time if the student's condition affects writing speed or concentration.

· Assistance with transport costs / arrangements.

· Specialist advice and support is also provided by occupational therapists through the Unilink-2 service. This service can work with the student on a range of issues, such as pain and fatigue management, health education, appropriate seating/positioning, mobility, specific study skills etc.

That all seems pretty considerate and resonable.

Amz

Can I ask if you have any personal experience with the disability service other than what's provided on their webpage?

FranknFurter

LiouVille wrote:

I feel I must defend trinity here a quote from the Trinity Student Disability Services (SDS).

Supports are provided following an individual assessment of need, and thus vary depending on the student's circumstances. The types of supports that SDS can provide include:
· Information and advice to students about managing fatigue and pacing their academic workload. These are vital strategies that can reduce the impact of the disability on academic performance.

·Extended library loans, so that it is possible to study in an environment that does not exacerbate fatigue and to pace studying.

·Photocopy cards, so it is possible to copy sections of books / articles rather than carrying the whole books, and to print notes. This will also enable the student to study in an environment that is less tiring. Photocopy cards are also important to reduce the volume of note-taking, since note-taking can exacerbate fatigue.

·Support with note-taking. Some students with certain conditions require a note-taker or alternative means of taking notes during lectures - a variety of solutions are provided by SDS, depending on the student's individual circumstances.

·Subject specific tuition / recapping may be provided if a student misses lectures for any extended period due to ill-health.

·Provision of assistive technology, such as a laptop computer to enable the student to study and access e-mail, notes etc when at home or in hospital. Some students also require specialist software or hardware.

·Exam accommodations including rest breaks, possible use of computer, a separate or smaller venue and extra time if the student's condition affects writing speed or concentration.

·Assistance with transport costs / arrangements.

·Specialist advice and support is also provided by occupational therapists through the Unilink-2 service. This service can work with the student on a range of issues, such as pain and fatigue management, health education, appropriate seating/positioning, mobility, specific study skills etc.

That all seems pretty considerate and resonable.

All great to see, problem is, the buildings themselves are about as wheelchair accessible as a flight of neverending stairs. (at least they were 12 years ago, apologies if thats changed).
I did notice that a lot of colleges seem to implement "disability services" but forget completely about the simpler aspects like ramps and level access.

B

snorlax

certain building like the museam building, the gmb, the pav, the laser huts, and the speech language therapy building are inaccessible to people with wheelchairs. there certainly has been some good initiatives by college services though in recent times. i think engineering doens't accept any student with a wheelchair because of all the stairs. tis very hard to renovate old/ protected buildings etc without wrecking them.

FranknFurter

snorlax wrote:

certain building like the museam building, the gmb, the pav, the laser huts, and the speech language therapy building are inaccessible to people with wheelchairs. there certainly has been some good initiatives by college services though in recent times. i think engineering doens't accept any student with a wheelchair because of all the stairs. tis very hard to renovate old/ protected buildings etc without wrecking them.

Actually, these days its a lot easier than most ppl think (or are led to believe).
It can be done with minimal disruption and very little structural upheaval. (Look at the older American colleges, the majority are now almost completely wheelchair-friendly, you dont have to cement over steps to make them accessible, there are many new non-invasive options).

What it takes is money. College's dont like spending money unless they are *made* do it.

This particular point has been put to TCD and others many many times over the years, each year giving them more and more options. The excuse has always been "too expensive, we dont have the funding".....

B

RainyDay

snorlax wrote:

i think engineering doens't accept any student with a wheelchair because of all the stairs.

It is very unlikely that any such policy would survive a claim of discrimination under equal status legislation. If a wheelchair user was offered a place in engineering through the normal channel, TCD would be expected to move heaven & earth to accomodate that student, including moving the entire course to an accessible building if necessary.

The current Equal Status Act does not oblige a service provider to incur costs beyond 'nominal cost' - see http://www.equality.ie/index.asp?docID=49#q7 for more details. However, recent cases around pubs (Searsons/Olan McGowan, Russell Court Hotel) seem to have gone beyond the 'nominal cost' barrier.

keynesian

LiouVille wrote:

I feel I must defend trinity here a quote from the Trinity Student Disability Services (SDS).
........

That all seems pretty considerate and resonable.

I know I started this threat on a bit of a rant, fenting frustations at Trinity. It was a personal experance which could have been mard by other personal issues. I would be more then happy if you gave me your (or a friends) personal experance which contodicted my own. However quoting the SDS with out knowing if avaible and ease of access of the service or even a comparisons with other services is not a good defence of Trinity.

Futher would you say it was "considerate and resonable" if a company porduced a policy document about right of LGB worker, that stated the law. Or would say "that the law, big wuppy" and "how does it follow throw in practase".

Still lets try not rant on about how bad or inadiquite the serives are and focus on college with better sevices or if trinity has become more dynamic.

snorlax

it would probably be worth your while readind a thread about this that was posted on the tcd forum a while ago, the disability officier in tcd is a boards poster. also think the lift is redundant in the hamilton or at least it was. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=235707

RainyDay

Ahead completed a survey recently on the supports available in the various institutes of technology - it doesn't seem to be on their website, but give them a call and they will send it out to you.

keynesian

I did ring Ahead, one girl gave me this site http://www.qualifax.ie

Boston

snorlax wrote:

certain building like the museam building, the gmb, the pav, the laser huts, and the speech language therapy building are inaccessible to people with wheelchairs. there certainly has been some good initiatives by college services though in recent times. i think engineering doens't accept any student with a wheelchair because of all the stairs. tis very hard to renovate old/ protected buildings etc without wrecking them.

There are ramps available to provide access to the museam building for wheelchair users. There are also plenty of lecture rooms available on the ground floor. Their would be no way to prevent a student applying though the CAO from doing engineering, and it would be well within the abilities of school to provide access to that person.

FranknFurter wrote:

Actually, these days its a lot easier than most ppl think (or are led to believe).
It can be done with minimal disruption and very little structural upheaval. (Look at the older American colleges, the majority are now almost completely wheelchair-friendly, you dont have to cement over steps to make them accessible, there are many new non-invasive options).

What it takes is money. College's dont like spending money unless they are *made* do it.

This particular point has been put to TCD and others many many times over the years, each year giving them more and more options. The excuse has always been "too expensive, we dont have the funding".....

It is hugely expensive to provide permenent wheelchair access to buildings, it is even more hugely expensive to make even the smallest of changes to listed buildings. I'm not going to say that you don't have a clue about what you're talking about, I'll just say perhaps you might want to look into the cost and effort that went into changing the way a set a doors opened (inwards instead of outwards) on an entry point in listed building in trinity, before making the above claims. Colleges have a committement to wheelchair user, but they also have a committement to other students.

keynesian, I've a friend with dyslexia in trinity, he's talken advantage of allot of things on that list. However, it is really don't to what department you're studying in,what support you will recieve

snorlax

LiouVille wrote:

There are ramps available to provide access to the museam building for wheelchair users. There are also plenty of lecture rooms available on the ground floor. Their would be no way to prevent a student applying though the CAO from doing engineering, and it would be well within the abilities of school to provide access to that person.

applicants are advised to state they have a disability on their cao forms as they get more accommodations that way http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/index.php and http://www.tcd.ie/disability/docs/pdf/supplementary_admissions_procedure.pdf
i have a friend who works in the disability office who's also a fencer thats why i know and i think it's more they are advised then they are not explictly allowed do engineering. if it was explicit then it would contrevene the equality acts.

keynesian

snorlax wrote:

thats why i know and i think it's more they are advised then they are not explictly allowed do engineering.

why does that feel familiar:rolleyes:

When I was there at that time, I would have require a large out lay of expenditure for what might be seen as little hope of success.

Amz

snorlax wrote:

applicants are advised to state they have a disability on their cao forms as they get more accommodations that way http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/index.php and http://www.tcd.ie/disability/docs/pdf/supplementary_admissions_procedure.pdf
i have a friend who works in the disability office who's also a fencer thats why i know and i think it's more they are advised then they are not explictly allowed do engineering. if it was explicit then it would contrevene the equality acts.

I stated on my CAO that I had a disability yet none of the 3rd level institutions I applied to sent me information or requested information from me regarding my disability.

I had to approach the disability office when I registered.

keynesian

LiouVille wrote:

keynesian, I've a friend with dyslexia in trinity, he's talken advantage of allot of things on that list.

The list stated before is the bare minimum, that must be provided, and friend got allot but not all. Please remember that dyslexia is an umbrella term, that can some times include other disorders. It can be mild, ie slower then your average cat, to severe ie you write incomprehensible and read like a 6year old. It can include expungers ie mild autism, and the famous ADDH.

But your right trinity action (be they preserved) is no reason for me to lay down and die.

Amz wrote:

I stated on my CAO that I had a disability yet none of the 3rd level institutions I applied to sent me information or requested information from me regarding my disability.

I had to approach the disability office when I registered.

I also filmed in the CAO form providing all documentation, but I was insulted by having to fill it in again to some colleges (I can’t remember if it were too) and further more to filling it out again when I reached trinity. Where I….. best not repeat myself.

Amz

The disability services in Ireland for students is quite under-resourced, I don't think people can really understand how farcical it can get unless they've been through, or are going through the system. They'll quote people working in it, they'll q uote websites and tell you the way it's supposed to be, but it never works like that.

Boston

keynesian wrote:

The list stated before is the bare minimum, that must be provided, and friend got allot but not all.

He doesn't need it all. So he has never taken advantage of it all. It's up to you to know your rights tbh. My friend is the type of person who knows exactly what he's initialed to.

keynesian

Amz wrote:

I don't think people can really understand how farcical it can get unless they've been through, or are going through the system.

My thoughts exactly.

Was it UCC, you went?

FranknFurter

LiouVille wrote:

It is hugely expensive to provide permenent wheelchair access to buildings, it is even more hugely expensive to make even the smallest of changes to listed buildings. I'm not going to say that you don't have a clue about what you're talking about, I'll just say perhaps you might want to look into the cost and effort that went into changing the way a set a doors opened (inwards instead of outwards) on an entry point in listed building in trinity, before making the above claims. Colleges have a committement to wheelchair user, but they also have a committement to other students.

Actually, having just recently re-designed a wheelchair accessible house I am very aware of the costs involved tyvm.
Listed buildings are and always will be a seperate issue, your right about that, not necessarilly because of cost though, I worked dealing with a company "Temple Bar Properties" on this issue for several years during the areas re-development.

My point was, there are a LOT of tiny changes that can be made with minimal cost either financially or otherwise that can make a huge difference.

Now, if you would like to back up your claims to the contrary with some nice figures Ill be more than happy to do the same.:)

B

Amz

keynesian wrote:

My thoughts exactly.

Was it UCC, you went?

No, DCU. Still here too.

Boston

FranknFurter wrote:

Actually, having just recently re-designed a wheelchair accessible house I am very aware of the costs involved tyvm.
Listed buildings are and always will be a seperate issue, your right about that, not necessarilly because of cost though, I worked dealing with a company "Temple Bar Properties" on this issue for several years during the areas re-development.

My point was, there are a LOT of tiny changes that can be made with minimal cost either financially or otherwise that can make a huge difference.

Now, if you would like to back up your claims to the contrary with some nice figures Ill be more than happy to do the same.:)

B

Well listed building are not a sperate issue. You barret trinity, but ignore the fact that all non-listed trinity building are fully wheelchair accessible. The problem lies with the listed buildings of which some have been made accessible and only the ones which have proven difficult and exepensive to make accessible, have not.

Also, I find it odd that you ask for figures, since given the experience you claim to have, you should know you can't calculate costs accurately on making listed building accessible, untill you go to do it. The whole applying for planning premission in, and of, itself can be extemely expensive.

What I'd like to know from you, is exactly what are these "tiny changes that can be made with minimal cost either financially or otherwise that can make a huge difference", and whether or not they have allready been implimented.