Need some advice (Lecturer Problems)

DamoVOTF

Hmm this could be a long one. I study a postgraduate course at UCD and have been doing fairly well for the past year ~68% out of 10 exams. The problem I have is one of my lecturers gave me a score of 51% for one exam. Now this is where it gets more complicated.

This lecturer also happens to be the course supervisor and teaches my class a number of compulsory courses this semester, so obviously while I was extremely unhappy with this result I cant piss him off too much.

Reason why I am unhappy with 51%, the lecturer cancelled and rescheduled ~25-45 of all classes last year, we didnt get a course outline until we asked every week and then we finally got it in week 11 or 12. The subject matter is highly mathematical, and the course outline showed that absolutely no clue went into planning.

The entire class was in a panic as no one had a clue about the exam, and the only redeeming feature was that it tended to stay pretty constant every year. So one person had a set of solutions developed by a previous year of the course. This became the bible and everyone wrote learnt the solutions, went to the exam and reproduced as much as they could.

I came out of the exam happy and felt I answered enough to score 65-75%, I was shocked to score 51% a good 15% below everyone else in the class, since we all learnt the same solutions. After months of asking the lecturer and being put off I finally a formal application to view my paper. A week later I got to examine my paper, and of the 4 questions it was plainly obvious that it had been recently been marked.

I lost points for small grammatical errors and for occasional use of wrong notation, i.e. calling a variable xt instead of x. These sort of errors were costing 50% of the marks on a question, and I was being punished for them more than once. The final question was unmarked and when queried on this the lecturer the lecturer explained I scored half marks for the question, and without a mark on the script the lecturer looked at the question for a minute or two and then explained a single squared term on a definition cost me 50%, this was a tiny part of one question.

After that he could obviously see I was annoyed and made certain statements in relation to another course he taught us last year. This was a continual assement course, which had gone uncorrected for the entire summer and was still outstanding until this morning.

This was a C++ course and it again was shockingly badly taught, cancelled lecturers and no thought put into what was being asked. You were required to hand up 6 out of 7 projects. No one in the class could do any of the assignments except for myself, and I ended up writing about 80% of all assignments and then other students were using my code themselves (I know this is wrong, but I am not the kind of guy not to help other people if they are going to fail).

Back to the point, I informed the lecturer this was my best course and he informed (without having corrected the papers yet by his own admission) that I would score 75+%, to help get over the 51%. At this point I decided the issue of the 51% wasnt worth making my life difficult for this year.

This morning I recieved my grade of 70-74% for the C++ subject, naturally I am bit annoyed as anyone can see if they look at the scripts, my C++ assignments are miles better in terms of scope and depth to most of the rest of the class. Everyone else in the class seems to have scored in exactly the same range including one person who handed up perhaps 3 of 7 projects.

Well I have finally had enough, I want to know what I can do about this I spend far too much money to get a 2:1 and also not get taught what I am paying for!

So does anyone have some advice of who I can go to see to raise this issue? As I feel like no matter what I offer the lecturer it either doesnt get marked properly or is ignored completely.

Despite the length of this post, this is still actually only scraping the surface.

rain on

I don't know how your department is set up, but if I was in a similar situation I'd go to either my postgraduate co-ordinator or my head of department, and if there was no joy there I'd go to the SU Education Officer and see if they could help at all.

DamoVOTF

Well this lecturer is head of the course no idea who the other people are, any where I can find this information out?

r3nu4l

There must be a head of department somewhere, the departmental secretary will tell you who this is.

Do any of your classmates feel strongly enough to back you up? Sometimes if two or three students go as class representatives to the head of department you are more likely to get a fair hearing. You should book a meeting with the head of department asap, outlining that the agenda will be a complaint against a member of staff, you do not need to name the staff member at this time.

You should have all complaints typed on paper and give a copy to the head of department as well as documentation including your exam script. Ask the Head of department to compare the marking standard on your paper with that of other classmates in teh same exam. He/She should check for consistency in marking.

You may be entitled to bring a SU representative with you. Preferably not some loudmouth hothead. If the Education rep is an idiot ask the SU VP or president to sit in.

There must be a post-graduate representative in UCD. Talk to this person, many times they will be research students but they should represent even those who are pursuing taught post-graduate courses.

That's about all I can say. It may all still be brushed under the carpet but if you keep your head and provide evidence that you have attempted other means to resolve the problem at least you may be taken seriously.

DamoVOTF

The entire class feels the same way, at the end of last year there was a letter drafted up by the class stating how poorly we thought the course was taught and run, and specifically the class where I scored 51%.

This letter never got handed up due to some class politics and people chickening out, at that stage I was pissed off with the course but not enough to do stuff about it.

The class will back me up in a good few things, I say they would complain about the standard of the teaching for that course last year. And I dont know if I could get them to say they plagarised my work but I guess they would be willing to state that I helped them a lot.

I am going to follow this up as today has been a real low point.

rain on

DamoVOTF wrote:

Well this lecturer is head of the course no idea who the other people are, any where I can find this information out?

I don't know if all departments have a postgrad co-ordinator, but if yours does it should be listed in your course handbook or on the website. You can find out who your head of department is by clicking on your school in this list: http://www.ucd.ie/colleges.htm . The first page you come to will have a big shiny picture of the department head on it (they're called heads of school now but it's the same thing).
The SU Education Officer is this guy: http://www.ucdsu.net/education.html . I have no idea what he's like.

themole

thats seems like a crap situation.

As stated before you should contact the head of the department asap. Do not let this drag on.

If you get no satisfaction there you could then go to the faculty (or college now??) level.

After all that there is an external examiner for every course. They are not affiliated with UCD and in most cases should have no affinity to the lecturer in question. Thereby providing an impartial viewpoint.

Having said that a friend of mine tried to question his project marks, (different college, different cousrse), and the college in question said that they could convene a meeting in which they would have their lawyers and he should also have legal representation. He didn't go through with it in the end, but he still wishes he had.

Pythia

Try this: http://www.ucd.ie/appeals/exam_appeal.htm

gubbie

I'd try your student advisor before you head down to the union - http://www.ucd.ie/advisers/advisers.html - cos they'll know a lot more about your course then the SU having dealt with a lot of complaints before for many years. If not then they'll also be able to put you in the right direction

DamoVOTF

I dont want to continue down the exam board route yet, cause I know he will remark it and at best put it up 2% and say it was fine. And secondly he talks all this cr@p about marking each paper in comparison to the rest of the class (which is the funny bit since everyone produced the same answers) and if he marks it again I will be getting no where.

Nah the issue is even more deep seated than that, I dont think I can realistically continue this course, when I feel I am going to be wasting my time in certain key subjects and there is a bias against my thesis.

I cant face the prospect of another module like the one from last year and again ending up with 50% at the end of the year, end up with a 2:2 probably in that case. And I have a cumpolsuory course again on a similar subject next year with the lecturer in question.

The student advisor looks like a good place to start and I think I will follow that up.

Thanks.

Stabshauptmann

Brian Doyle (the SU education officer) has been unable to answer some basic questions I put to him, he didnt know much about defering 3rd year commerce despite having defered 3rd year commerce himself!

Still Im sure he must know the procedure and where to get the info on your coordinator, department head etc. And even if he just came along to a meeting it would make a strong statement me thinks.

Really this is a **** situation. Get a signed letter confirming your comlpaint, any evidence and documentation you can get your hands on and bring it to the highest level.

I had a problem with an unfair exam in my own undergraduate degree. I raised it at a student staff consultative forum meeting and was refered to the head of the school and the matter was resolved to my satisfaction. If you have a legitimate complaint, go for it.

DamoVOTF

I think I am going to talk to the Student Advisors first, causes this destroying my time here.

Interestingly I got a few messages from my class rep, who scored 80-84% in the C++ results this morning. He was one of the people who used some of my code, and he says it is a disgrace that he can score 10% above me for a subject where I did the majority of work. He has offered to go in personally and speak to the lecturer on my behalf or go in with me.

But once again I am back to the inital problem I have 1 semester to go and he marks my thesis, and "teaches" one of my compulsory modules. If I piss him off to much I will score zero for everything else, and he is the kind of pedantic person to do that.

singingstranger

I don't have his details personally on me but try asking Denis Ryan, who is the SU Postgraduate Officer, to have a word or sit in on stuff if Brian Doyle or anyone else can't. I'm sure abelard/gubbie/dajaffa/any other hacks here can supply you with his contacts.

gubbie

singingstranger wrote:

I don't have his details personally on me but try asking Denis Ryan, who is the SU Postgraduate Officer, to have a word or sit in on stuff if Brian Doyle or anyone else can't. I'm sure abelard/gubbie/dajaffa/any other hacks here can supply you with his contacts.

... I'm sorry... but did he just call me a hack?!? :mad:
But ya I'll get them for you if you want. I'd still go down the student advisors route as your first port of call though. If they recommend an SU officer, then go for it

Stabshauptmann

Suppose its all a matter of perspective. How does anyone define a Hack. Few people who get the label think they deserve it (Im not actually sure who you are gubbie so no comment there) Generally though I think its fair to define Hack as:

HACK Noun.
Def.
1)Horribly overambitious student intent on climbing the greasy pole of success. First heard at Cambridge.
2)A cheap, mediocre, or second-rate practitioner, especially in the fields of journalism and literature: a charlatan or incompetent.
3)Someone who seeks office or position simply to add padding to their CV
4) A)The holder of an obsolete or irrelevant position,
or position within an organisation felt to be obsolete or irrelevant
C) or preoccupied with following the goings on of people and organisations
felt to be obsolete or irrelevant



The stereotypical profile from what I can tell is:
A)keen interest in university media and general going on
I **** you not, 2 of my flat mates didnt know that coca coala products are banned in SU shops, another thought it was the entire university. None of them know what events are on or when. We're all final years.

B)SU involvement
Well Ok, a lot of SU motions falls into the categories of common sense and extreme idealism. But noone ever seems to acknowledge the benefit they get from SU provided services.

C)CV Padding
Ok, Im the societies council rep on the management committee of the centre club.
Yes on the face of it that does seem pointless, but
Ive raised the issue of Free Trade beer and wine which we're gonna start stocking now
the cans issue is still ongoing. There are strong objections from the college but it really is all gonna come down to the economics of it.

But then again, there are a lot of committees that have no power and more that dont even meet

D)Debating
I dont know why. Suppose because its the same ppl who speak a lot at council that go to all the debates. Or maybe its the topics of debates. But it has that reputation.
Im a final year and still have my maidens rights, I just hope I score the bitch who ever she is before I graduate

E)Idealism
Which seems to be defined as the lack of complete pessimism. Margrette Thatcher & co really succeed with the old "There is No Alternative". Masterful marketing *does commerce chortle

Dan hayden added internet cynic to my list, wasnt aware till then that he read boards *waves at dan*

Do ppl think thats an accurate definition and stereotype?

gubbie

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Suppose its all a matter of perspective. How does anyone define a Hack. Few people who get the label think they deserve it (Im not actually sure who you are gubbie so no comment there) Generally though I think its fair to define Hack as:

HACK Noun.
Def.
1)Horribly overambitious student intent on climbing the greasy pole of success. First heard at Cambridge.
2)A cheap, mediocre, or second-rate practitioner, especially in the fields of journalism and literature: a charlatan or incompetent.
3)Someone who seeks office or position simply to add padding to their CV
4) A)The holder of an obsolete or irrelevant position,
or position within an organisation felt to be obsolete or irrelevant
C) or preoccupied with following the goings on of people and organisations
felt to be obsolete or irrelevant



The stereotypical profile from what I can tell is:
A)keen interest in university media and general going on
I **** you not, 2 of my flat mates didnt know that coca coala products are banned in SU shops, another thought it was the entire university. None of them know what events are on or when. We're all final years.

B)SU involvement
Well Ok, a lot of SU motions falls into the categories of common sense and extreme idealism. But noone ever seems to acknowledge the benefit they get from SU provided services.

C)CV Padding
Ok, Im the societies council rep on the management committee of the centre club.
Yes on the face of it that does seem pointless, but
Ive raised the issue of Free Trade beer and wine which we're gonna start stocking now
the cans issue is still ongoing. There are strong objections from the college but it really is all gonna come down to the economics of it.

But then again, there are a lot of committees that have no power and more that dont even meet

D)Debating
I dont know why. Suppose because its the same ppl who speak a lot at council that go to all the debates. Or maybe its the topics of debates. But it has that reputation.
Im a final year and still have my maidens rights, I just hope I score the bitch who ever she is before I graduate

E)Idealism
Which seems to be defined as the lack of complete pessimism. Margrette Thatcher & co really succeed with the old "There is No Alternative". Masterful marketing *does commerce chortle

Dan hayden added internet cynic to my list, wasnt aware till then that he read boards *waves at dan*

Do ppl think thats an accurate definition and stereotype?

Hmm...
1) Kinda
2) Since my english is so bad to not be able to understand either of them then eh no
3) No, I just thought it'd be fun (by the way I'm Jennifer-eng and arch PRO-I swear I ain't going no further due to the old course)
4)Depends what you think of the job but since Pierce fecked it up then I'd say ya

Cheers Podge. I think your definition doens't count society Hacks

elmyra

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Suppose its all a matter of perspective. How does anyone define a Hack. Few people who get the label think they deserve it (Im not actually sure who you are gubbie so no comment there) Generally though I think its fair to define Hack as:

HACK Noun.
Def.
1)Horribly overambitious student intent on climbing the greasy pole of success. First heard at Cambridge.
2)A cheap, mediocre, or second-rate practitioner, especially in the fields of journalism and literature: a charlatan or incompetent.
3)Someone who seeks office or position simply to add padding to their CV
4) A)The holder of an obsolete or irrelevant position,
or position within an organisation felt to be obsolete or irrelevant
C) or preoccupied with following the goings on of people and organisations
felt to be obsolete or irrelevant



The stereotypical profile from what I can tell is:
A)keen interest in university media and general going on
I **** you not, 2 of my flat mates didnt know that coca coala products are banned in SU shops, another thought it was the entire university. None of them know what events are on or when. We're all final years.

B)SU involvement
Well Ok, a lot of SU motions falls into the categories of common sense and extreme idealism. But noone ever seems to acknowledge the benefit they get from SU provided services.

C)CV Padding
Ok, Im the societies council rep on the management committee of the centre club.
Yes on the face of it that does seem pointless, but
Ive raised the issue of Free Trade beer and wine which we're gonna start stocking now
the cans issue is still ongoing. There are strong objections from the college but it really is all gonna come down to the economics of it.

But then again, there are a lot of committees that have no power and more that dont even meet

D)Debating
I dont know why. Suppose because its the same ppl who speak a lot at council that go to all the debates. Or maybe its the topics of debates. But it has that reputation.
Im a final year and still have my maidens rights, I just hope I score the bitch who ever she is before I graduate

E)Idealism
Which seems to be defined as the lack of complete pessimism. Margrette Thatcher & co really succeed with the old "There is No Alternative". Masterful marketing *does commerce chortle

Dan hayden added internet cynic to my list, wasnt aware till then that he read boards *waves at dan*

Do ppl think thats an accurate definition and stereotype?

I think you just defined everyone I know as a hack.

Blush_01

Me too. Hehe. Well done Kap. (I was called a whack a few times, as a fresher. Teehee.)

OP: I empathise. It's awful that there's no anonimity when it comes to graduate educational assessment, particular for theses (apart from external examination I know, but if you have a disinterested supervisor, things can be awkward). I hope everything is resolved to your satisfaction. Keep us posted?

Stabshauptmann

gubbie wrote:

by the way I'm Jennifer-eng and arch PRO-

Ah hello Pet, no I wouldnt call you a hack at all.

Cheers Podge. I think your definition doens't count society Hacks

It could be an oversight, but I havent found a correlation between society activity (other than debating) and being labelled a hack. To be fair, Id hardly call any of the ppl I know from the smaller societies or sports clubs hacks. But if you're referring to the ppl at the top of the large societies, I know a few who fall under points one and two of my definition.

blush wrote:

Me too. Hehe. Well done Kap

Like I said in the stalkers thread, there is a reason why many of us bump into each other a lot offline. Because many of us are hacks or live on the edge of hack circles.

Personally, neither in my first or second yr in UCD could or would any one think of calling me a hack. I did little and knew little.
This year however my flatmates and one of my friends have said Ive become a hack.
Why?
Because I seem to be able to answer any college related question and I go to SU council.
Being auditor of Dutch Soc wasnt a reason for them and surprisingly enough for my friends my plan to run for President wasnt a factor. The mind truly boggles.

Chakar

I think we all can safely say I'm a hack

Its a good label.

DamoVOTF

Thanks to everyone who replied, on Friday I went to see one of the student advisors. He gave some really good advice and was impartial to what I had to say.

So I am going to try and make arrangements for next term, hopefully I can get it sorted.

gubbie

YEA my advice won

Glad everythings going along for you now and hopefully you'll get some justice *enter some big leftie quote from... some guy... here for my "leftie for yet another day" day*