Coffee Machine recommendations

newwifey

Hi
I am hoping to buy the hubby a real coffee machine for Christmas (by real I mean one which is plumbed in) one which has a milk frother/steamer for making cappuccinos and lattes.

However im not really a coffee drinker and don't know what to look for in a machine. The brand Gaggia seems to pop up on different web sites but any tips, do's or don'ts would be very welcome.
Thanks in advance.
Sinead

billyblanks

Lucky Bas**rd.......mumble grumble.....

I don't know what your budget is? If you want a plumbed machine I'd say you will have to spend about €1600.


If I was spending €1600 I would probably buy the Quickmill Ventrano. For me it has everything, I could blab on about it but the best thing you could do is ring a company in England called Bella-Barista, http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/ and tell them what you are looking for, they will recommend the right machine for the job....great people to deal with.

Cheers,

Craig.

kippy

I don't know what your budget is? If you want a plumbed machine I'd say you will have to spend about €1600.

1600 yos for a coffee machine!!
Jaysus I didnt think they could be that expensive!
Nice present for someone who is into coffee although I dunno would they appreciate you spending 1600 on one.
Kippy

billyblanks

I know, its a lot of money, but that is what you have to pay if you want a plumbed machine. But if you do spend €1600 on a coffee machine, it should last a lifetime, so it not such a bad investment.

newwifey

Ok Craig you seem to know whay you are talking about cause obviously I don't have a balls!

I thought all the Gaggia type machines that talk about 15 bar pressure etc were plumbed in and they can be bought for about €800 (had a quick look last night on the internet (from Italy)). So was I wrong in this assumption? They are not plumbed in at all? Where does the pressure come from so.

I dont really have 1600 to spend - I could squeeze about half of that.

Kippy, he's worth every penny and considering how much he spends on coffee every day it will probably be a saving!!

Craig, please do blab on about it as I dont want to spend this much money and end up with a piece of crap. Thanks again

billyblanks

Hi Newwifey,
coffee is made at about 8-9 bar of pressure, 15bar is what the machine is capable of, generally the machine will have a pressure valve to release pressure if it goes over about 11bar during extraction. this pressure comes from the pump in the machine not from the mains water. I'm not sure which gaggia you are talking about.....Ill have a goo around and see if I can find it.

If you want to spend €800 I am going to recommend doing something else... When it come to making great coffee the machine is important but the coffee grinder is more important! you can not make good coffee with badly ground coffee no matter how good your machine is.
This is part of my coffee set up http://www.ristrettocoffee.com/shop/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=25
The Rancillio Silvia (machine) and Rocky (grinder) are one of the best coffee setups for the money.....and they look fantastic.
The only disadvantage of the silvia is it does not ave a second boiler for steam, so if you want a latte you have to make your coffee then filck the steam button and wait about 40- 50 seconds for steam.....not a big problem but something to think about.
your other option is to spend the full €800 on a machine and let him sort out a grinder for himself?? I would personally stay away from plumbed machines for the €800 mark......but once again that is just my opinion I could easily be proved wrong. If I had €800 I would look at the EXPOBAR OFFICE PULSAR once again have a look at it on bella barista...

billyblanks

Hmmmm.......was it the Gaggia titanium??

http://www.italy-outlet.co.uk/en/i/cat55/product648165.html

I'm not a fan of built in grinders, but it can take out a lot of the hassle involved in making coffee.

If it is the Titanium you are looking at it is a good automatic machine, you wont go wrong with it.

jimmytwo

Hi there - bit of a coffee fan myself - I also have the Rancilio Silvia and Rocky Grinder - big thumbs up from me!!

I reckon a manual machine (like the rancilio or gaggia classic) will always produce better results than a fully automatic like the Gaggia Titanium. In fact about a year ago a mate of mine was upgrading his Krups espresso machine and bought the Titanium, about 1 week later he sold it again and bought the Rancilio combination.

newwifey

Hi lads
I really really appreciate the feed back.
I have to say, even though I know frig all, I would be veering away from the automatic machines too. I hate being served anything from those automatic machines in coffee shops - kinda feels like those packets of cappuccino that you add water to.

Anyway, I am much clearer on the facts now.
In relation to the grinder, do the real coffee buffs always grind their own coffee beans? Whats wrong with the ground coffee you can buy in the shops?

I understand the time delay between making the coffee and frothing the milk. So to get over this problem I have to purchase a machine with a heat exchanger or a double boiler.

Is there anywhere in the republic that sells these machines. Somewhere I can go to get a look before I buy? I live in the west and no one stocks anything but 'taypots' down here!

Also what will these machines stand up to parts wise. Can I expect to get years of coffee making outta it before it gives trouble (given that it will be well minded and cared for)

Sorry for all the questions, but im almost there
Thanks again
Sinead

hunnymonster

I have the gaggia SYNCRONY COMPACT. I got it as a christmas pressie in BT 3 years ago and I have to admit it was one of the best pressies I ever got. It's an automatic with a built in grinder but is prefect for personal use. The coffee tastes amazing and with use jsut keeps tasting better (bizzarre I know). The build quality is excellent and when I did have a problem with it, brown thomas took it away and got it sorted without any hassle. It was about 800 euro at the time but they are much more common now so prices may well have come down. It's not plumbed but the tank holds about 4 large cups so filling it ins't a hassle.


BTW, for coffee lovers out there, a trip north of the boarder to Newry is well worth it if you drink a lot of coffee. Sainsbury's beans are about half the price of any I've found in Dublin.

hunnymonster

didn't read all your post, sorry. You should use freshly ground beans for the freshness. If you must use ground coffee, keep it in the fridge. It really makes a difference.

You should get a lifetime out of a gaggia. It's worth getting a service one a year or so if it is used heavily. If you're any way handy, you can take it apart yourself for a good clean.

jimmytwo

hunnymonster wrote:

You should use freshly ground beans for the freshness. If you must use ground coffee, keep it in the fridge.

Don't keep your coffee in the fridge - this is a common misconception. When coffee is kept in the fridge it will absorb flavours from the other foods in there. The best way to store coffee is in an airtight container in a cupboard.

Also, grinding beans freshly makes a HUGE difference to the flavours - ground coffee looses it fullest flavours and aromas in a matter of minutes.

Also - try where possible to buy fresh roasted coffee - again your tastebuds will thank you

HTH

billyblanks

OK....cool you know about heat exchangers and you dint like automatic machines......sure you are buying this for your hubby;)

Pre ground coffee goes stale very fast, 20 mins once you open the bag. also each machine reacts differently to different grinds of coffee, by buying pre ground you really limit the quality of the coffee you will make. Coffee beans are an organic material so the react to their environment,(heat moisture) I can make a perfect espresso in the morning, arrive home in the evening and I have to adjust the grind on the same beans to get a good shot.....

Famous saying from a top USA coffee guru " you can make a good cup of coffee with a $200 espresso machine and a $500 grinder, but you can not make a good cup of coffee with a $5000 coffee machine and a $150 grinder" ....or some crap like that, you get the drift.

dont buy it in Ireland....Coffee machines are very expensive here. buy from England...or anywhere in Europe. + the only good brand readily available seems to be Gaggia...if you are buying gaggia maybe buy it here for peace of mind.

The EXPOBAR OFFICE PULSAR is a Heat exchange coffee machine, but it eats up your budget....you wont be able to get a Grinder. I would have to ask myself is it worth the extra money? There are some cheap dual boiler machines on the market but I wouldn't touch them, they are cheap for a reason!

This has become a little disjointed as I have been writing this on and off all day(bloody work)

If I had €800 I would buy the Silvia, Rocky, Knockbox setup and do without my instant steam....unless of course your hubby would buy his own grinder? in that case you could spend all the cash on a machine....Ill have a look around tonight and see if I can find some options...

billyblanks

jimmytwo wrote:

Don't keep your coffee in the fridge - this is a common misconception. When coffee is kept in the fridge it will absorb flavours from the other foods in there. The best way to store coffee is in an airtight container in a cupboard.


HTH

Also by keeping coffee in the fridge or freezer you introduce moisture to it which is a real taste killer...

rockbeer

Just to chime in with my 2c, I also have a Rancilio Silvia and can give it a big thumbs up. It isn't the cheapest machine out there, but it is IMHO the best value for money, and probably the cheapest that will allow you to make excellent espresso consistently. Espresso is very dependent on brew temperature as well as pressure, and the Silvia has a big solid brass boiler, heavy brewing group and seriously heavy portafilter, all of which help keep the temperature much more stable than your average domestic machine. There are also loads of them in use out there, so the net is full of information on how to get the best out of it. I recently bought a Wega Mininova light commercial heat exchanger machine, and the consistency of the coffee it produces way outshines even the Silvia. And that's without mentioning the exellence of having virtually limitless steaming power. I use the Wega commercially and wouldn't necessarily recommend something like that for your house unless you have buckets of money and a big kitchen - and aren't too bothered by big utility bills, as these machines like to be left on 24 x 7. But it shows that you basically get what you pay for where espresso is concerned. If you buy a quality machine now it will last you forever, and you will be glad you did every time you drink a great espresso. If you economize you will inevitably want to upgrade before long so you can reckon your first investment on a cheap machine will be money wasted.

In my opinion, plumbing isn't really a necessity, nor even necessarily an advantage. The Silvia and other domestic machines come with convenient built-in tanks, which you just fill from the tap. Or you can use bottled water, which can be a big plus - especially if your tap water is dodgy like ours. Plumbed-in machines generally have rotary pumps, which are quieter and more durable than the vibe pumps you get in tank-fed machines, but they don't make significantly better espresso.

On the grinder question, I second what billyblanks has said - to make good espresso you must get a decent burr grinder. Don't neglect this - loads of people I talk to at my market stall are disappointed with the coffee they're making on their home espresso machines. Most of them are either using pre-ground coffee (which is almost always ground too coarse for good espresso), or horrible cheap grinders with whirly blades which are no use for espresso at all. I was horrified to discover I would have to spend nearly as much on the grinder as on the espresso machine. Whatever machine you get, you will need to reset the grind regularly to get the best tasting coffee. There are some decent grinders at the lower end of the price scale, e.g.

Gaggia MDF
Innova I-2 (I have this and it's been fantastic for me - YMMV)
Iberital MC2 (same burr set as Innova I-2)
Starbucks Barista (?), which is not great out of the box but can apparently be tweaked to provide a reasonable espresso grind.

Going up from these, it's the Rancilio Rocky and then you're looking at the Mazzer Mini, which will cost you quite a lot more than I paid for my first car which also happened to be a mini.

Bewleys in Grafton Street do some good fresh roasted coffee blends (lots of fair trade choices too - I like the FT espresso blend), the staff on the counter are very helpful and will always tell you when a particular batch was roasted.

Home espresso just doesn't come cheap, but it can be worth keeping an eye on ebay as the odd worthwhile deal does come up now and then. I bought my Wega from Pennine Tea & Coffee in the UK, and if you decide you're in the market for a heat exchanger I think you could do a lot worse than their current clearance deals:

http://www.pennineteaandcoffee.co.uk/caaa608.htm

The semi-auto hand-fill for £525 sterling is fantastic value for a bascially commercial quality machine, although I know it's a bit over your budget and that's without the grinder.

Sorry for the long post - good luck whatever you decide.

newwifey

Ok
It looks like ye cant all be wrong about the Rancilio Silvia. Had a quick look around last night and the machine got great reviews from www.coffeegeek.com

I found it for sale from this site http://www.bella-italia.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/gondola/coffee/item98.shtml?L+gondolaEUR+rcwj7946+1164152759 for a slightly better price (769 plus 25 postage) BUT they are based in Italy.

Apart from craigs recommendation of buying from the site up north has anyone seen the machine for sale down south?

Thanks for all the help - really learned a lot in a few days.

rockbeer

There's only one Rancilio reseller down South - deemac coffee in Dublin, but they were less than helpful when I tried to do business with them, and wanted twice the best price I could find online for a Rancilio Epoca. You could give them a try, but I couldn't recommend them based on my own experience.

http://www.deemac-coffee.ie/

I bought my Silvia from http://www.myespresso.co.uk/ - that was the cheapest price I could find, and they were extremely helpful. I see they're offering a Silvia/Rocky package for £480 sterling (http://www.myespresso.co.uk/shop/html/Rancilio-Silvia-&-Rocky.html) - which is about Eur 710 plus postage.

Another place I've heard good things about but not actually used is http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/ - they have the Silvia/Rocky set for Eur 689 delivered.

http://66.70.211.12/store/rancilio_silvia_rocky_220.html

It's hard to see where you're going to beat that price.

Good luck,
Bruce

jimmytwo

Bear in mind that if you buy from EspressoCoffeeShop, BellaItalia or MyEspresso the machines will european imports with an adapter for the 2 prong plug, plus you may have potential warranty issues. For this reason I bought mine from the shop up North and they gave a first class service.

Had not heard of Deemac before

billyblanks

I bought my Silvia combo from http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/ with no problems. I would ring them and ask about returns. they claim "Shop with confidence, everything we sell is brand new and includes a full world manufacturer warranty"



I have also bought stuff from http://www.myespresso.co.uk/ They were the cheapest place for the grinder I bought and only charged £10 for postage, where other English companies wanted to charge £50 which is silly. The one bad thing about them is it took about 10 days for the grinder to arrive.

@Jimmytoo....where up north did you buy your machine?

jimmytwo

billyblanks wrote:

@Jimmytoo....where up north did you buy your machine?

Bought it at http://www.ristrettocoffee.com

spj

I too have bought the Silvia with Ristretto.

Really delighted with the product.

Also, have to say it was an absolute pleasure dealing with Ristretto. Mark, one of the partners, was exceptionally helpful and informative both when I was doing some general pre-purchase research as well as giving us expert tips on how to get the best out of the machine.

Ristretto also do their own coffee, including exclusive imports of really top-grade stuff from all kinds of exotic places... Enjoying some as I type:)

All in, these guys love their coffee and are passionate about helping others do the same. Couldnt recommend them highly enough.

I actually made the spin up to Banbridge to collect the machine myself but they also deliver to RoI (at very reasonable cost if memory serves).

Karoma

Resurrected thead moved.

horse10

hi i want to buy a coffee machine approx 150 euro.anyone any recomendations