Nearly have a site, what next?

Cmar-Ireland

Apologies in advance for the newbie questions....

We will hopefully have a site to start our build on soon. But never having done this before, we don't know the process to follow.

We have plans that we got from some american design sites. There will be changes made to them, but the general layout suits us.
Do we get these drawn up by an architect or a draughtsman?
What about the percolation test?

The house is approx 2600sq/ft dormer, with an attached double garage and space over it. So about 3300sq/ft under the roof. The plan is to build timber-frame, with brick or block skin. From reading in here, I think 150mm studs (400mm on centres) with double slabs should eliminate the TF hollowness. The stud space will be filled with 150mm fibreglass.
150mm in the roof truss space.

Unsure about the first floor construction, what opinions do you think we should look at?

It's decision time now about the heating etc. Probably go for wood pellet for space and water heating, with a back boiler fire place. I think rads instead of UFH, but we're not sure yet.

There is a lot of talk on here about U values and insulation, but I think that 150mm in all walls and roof, fitted to a high standard, is more than adquate.

The cost of geotherm, solar and wind is very high and I don't know if it's really worth the investment at the moment.

We'll probably have lots more questions and advice required s time goes by!!

Cheers
Ciaran

harto

Whoa steady on there lad.

You don't say if your site has planning permission and for what. If it has planning then a percolation test should have already been done.
Until you are sure what you have planning for, it is a bit premature to talk about house size and style. Particularly American styles which generally don't sit too well with most planning depts, the Irish vernacular or building regs. See what your site is like, then try and get a design to fit the site rather then dropping in some house from an American book. You don't necessarily even need an architect a good draughtsman/technician/engineer who knows the area and local planning process, should be able to come up with a design to suit.

Do aim to have your house insulated above and beyond building reg standards. This is the most important thing you can do in terms of your house's energy requirements. Then look at a heating system to meet the needs of your highly insulated house.


Good luck,
AndyH
http://www.helpmebuildandrenovate.com

Cmar-Ireland

Andy,

thanks for the reply. I thought I would need a plan before applying for permission?
This is the plan we have in mind. It's not a typical american design and I think it is a relatively normal looking dormer.

smashey

You might want to have a good tecnician from the area look at the plans. My first thought is that here in Donegal, the planners don't like the columns at the front of the house.

muffler

If you are located in Kildare you should have a look at their house design guide online. Most councils now have this facility available.

Personally I think you may hit problems with the overhang/supporting columns as smashey said. If you are in a rural area you may not get the dormer windows. The vertical emphasis on the windows is a plus. There are a lot of issues to contend with before submitting a planning application.

You will need to get a local agent to discuss these things with you and while its a good enough idea to plan ahead in one sense I think you may be rushing things a little when you start discussing the size of studs for example.

muffler

harto wrote:

Whoa steady on there lad........................Until you are sure what you have planning for, it is a bit premature to talk about house size and style.

Do you want to rephrase that harto

Do-more

Don't know about Kildare, but here in Westmeath they don't allow the columns any more. (Last 3 years or so).

Cmar-Ireland

The potential site is in Co Laois. I spent some time last night on the Laois CoCo website, but couldn't find any info on what is or isn't allowed. Does anyone know if this info is available online?

sas

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

The potential site is in Co Laois. I spent some time last night on the Laois CoCo website, but couldn't find any info on what is or isn't allowed. Does anyone know if this info is available online?

I'm going through the planning process in Laois myself at the moment. They tend to enforce the cork rural planning guide from what I've been told.

I've recently seen people I know get turned down on columns on the front of their house. See 06/207 on the Laois planning website. You can see the hoops they were made jump through on what for me is a pretty plain looking house. They were pushing a brick finish however and in rural settings this is very hard to get.

Also, Laois now pretty rigidly enfore the "local needs" requirement. In Laois you (or your parents I think) must have lived for 7 years within 3 miles of where you plan to build. The local architects are all having problems with this since it was introduced last April.

Good luck with the planning.

Cmar-Ireland

I'm not too hung up on the columns shown on the plan. The house could be built with or without them.
On the local needs thing, I am about 8-9 miles (in a straight line) from the site. I have lived all my life in Kildare.
Is the local needs thing going to shoot me down before I even start?

mjffey

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

I'm not too hung up on the columns shown on the plan. The house could be built with or without them.
On the local needs thing, I am about 8-9 miles (in a straight line) from the site. I have lived all my life in Kildare.
Is the local needs thing going to shoot me down before I even start?

Don't know, but before you sign the contract make sure you know if you will get planning at all. All the Counties have planning sessions once a week where you can go to with your idea and have a chat. My advise is to do that before you go any further.

Nice house btw, but not typical Irish (not that I care as I'm not Irish). Co. Mayo wouldn't be happy with it.
Good luck anyway.

muffler

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

I'm not too hung up on the columns shown on the plan. The house could be built with or without them.
On the local needs thing, I am about 8-9 miles (in a straight line) from the site. I have lived all my life in Kildare.
Is the local needs thing going to shoot me down before I even start?

Without seeing what is in the county development plan you will most likely have to show both roots and needs. Talk to a local engineer/architect/technician or alternatively ring the planning office and ask them. You dont have to give a name and you can inquire as to what are the requirements for building in a rural area

sas

County Development Plan is available at
http://www.laois.ie/Departments/Planning/Forward+Planning/Current+County+Development+Plan+for+2006-2012.htm

I pulled this out of it

H4 Rural Housing Policy
Within Areas of High Development Pressure outlined on Map 1.3.1.and Areas of Special Development
Control on Map 1.8.4 a positive presumption will be given towards rural housing where the applicant meets one of the following criteria:
• Persons whose primary employment is in agriculture, horticulture, forestry, bloodstock or other rural based activity in the area which they wish to build;
• Immediate family members (sons and daughters) seeking to build on the family farm;
• Persons whose primary employment is within or adjacent to County Laois and either they or their families have affiliations with a particular area and by reason of employment or other economic or social reason need to live in the rural location because of that employment or whose employment would provide a service to the local community or who may have a longstanding social / family connection to the area.
In all cases the applicant will be required to demonstrate that they meet with one of the above criteria.
In areas outside of this high development pressure, and other than areas of high amenity, a positive presumption will be given towards rural housing, subject to normal development control standards.

I realise that it states "Within areas of high development pressure" but as far as I've been told (local architects & technicians) the council are actively applying it across the board. Seems to depend on which planner you get though.

As has been said, talk to the planning office.

Cmar-Ireland

The site we are looking at is "Within areas of high development pressure". But the area is very rural, with low housing density.
Both of us work in Newbridge, and it is through a friend that this site has become available.

Where it says "Persons employment is adjacent to" Co. Laoise, does this mean the bordering counties?

I am begining to think that this is going to be a no go!:( Will going to a planning session will tell us if there is a possibility or no chance at all?

sas

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

Where it says "Persons employment is adjacent to" Co. Laoise, does this mean the bordering counties?

Sorry, not an expert so I have no idea.

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

I am begining to think that this is going to be a no go!:( Will going to a planning session will tell us if there is a possibility or no chance at all?

Talk to the planning office. They will be able to give you some guidance. Organise a preplanning meeting with the council. They do them thursday mornings in Portlaoise. However, I found it to be a complete waste of my time. In fact, the planner we met with started trying to enforce the local needs clause on us. I grew up 4 miles from the site. Later the planning office confirmed it didn't apply anyway in our case because outline permission was granted prior to the local needs restriction coming into effect.

I realise how frustrating it is, believe me!

Good luck.

paulocon

As regards the local needs, it seems to be very hard to pin anyone down on what exactly the requirements are.

If you are going down the pre-planning route, be well prepared - I think the onus is on you to prove that you have a requirement (you have links with the area etc.) I know of someone who dug up old school yearbooks etc showing Aunts/Uncles etc. to show his ties to the area but this may be an extreme case.

As regards distance from the site - again, I don't think there is any fixed distance on this. I think it's something that is considered along with the needs issue.

Local needs has been around my area for a while now and it's debatable how strictly it is being enforced. I've seen several instances of people being successful with planning applications where there must have been a very loose interpretation of 'Local Needs' by the council...

Cmar-Ireland

There are some email contacts on the CoCo website for planners. I wonder if it would be a good idea to shoot off an email, giving basic details of what we plan to do, and see what feedback I get?
If I gave a rough idea of the house style, location of the site and then see if there is any point in continuing with our plans...

paulocon

Might be worth a shot but from experience, you could be waiting some time for a reply to an email to the council.

Consider the pre-planning route but like I said, have your homework done before metting the planner.

muffler

The whole area of rural housing is a thorny issue and the requirements vary from county to county so therefore it is important that you check the contents of the county development plan. There is a possibility that the rural areas could be broken down into 2, 3 or 4 categories so depending on which category your site is located there may be different requirements.

From what you posted so far it would appear that your biggest problem is going to be establishing both roots and needs. Employment exemptions would normally be that you are employed within a couple of miles of the site but again that needs to be confirmed. Sometimes there may be a way round these issues so I think you need to contact an agent and seek advice.

I wouldn't be over keen on the pre-planning meetings but a quick phone call or dropping into the planning office can get you a lot of answers without costing you any money at all. The staff are there for that purpose.