CTN Launch

TheVan

My main problem with CTN is that it hasn't even gotten off the ground after 1 & 1/2 years.

And before someone jumps in and says its up and running, I don't count a TV station that doesn't broadcast up and running!

Its been a long time, a lot of money and to be honest, too much hype and the ordinary student has seen practically nothing. It seems more of a vanity project than anything else, for everyone involved.

Stabshauptmann

It is off the ground, so to speak. Its not a fait accompli yet though

Stabshauptmann

Im not involved with them, but I can recognise that broadcsating is actually the last step.

The ground: an idea for a campus TV network
Step one is setting up: structure, license, plan, ppl, sponsorship
Step two is production
Step three broadcasting.

I cant see how you can jump from the ground floor straight to broadcasting.

These things take a lot of time and an incredible ammount of effort.
Congrats to them on the work to date, I hope they succeed in establishing CTN firmly in UCD

hullaballoo

It's speaks to the difference between the News at one with Seán O'Rourke on CD and the News at one with Seán O'Rourke on RTÉ Radio One at one o'clock.

muckraker

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Im not involved with them, but I can recognise that broadcsating is actually the last step.

The ground: an idea for a campus TV network
Step one is setting up: structure, license, plan, ppl, sponsorship
Step two is production
Step three broadcasting.

I cant see how you can jump from the ground floor straight to broadcasting.

These things take a lot of time and an incredible ammount of effort.
Congrats to them on the work to date, I hope they succeed in establishing CTN firmly in UCD

So 2 or so years isnt long enough for a TV station to 'get up of the ground' and start broadcasting? How long do you think it should take?

And either way, shouldnt they wait until it can broadcast before it 'launches'?

cast_iron

hullaballoo wrote:

It's speaks to the difference between the News at one with Seán O'Rourke on CD and the News at one with Seán O'Rourke on RTÉ Radio One at one o'clock.

I may be picking you up wrong here, but to compare CTN programmes to the News at One isn't really fair.

TheVan

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The ground: an idea for a campus TV network
Step one is setting up: structure, license, plan, ppl, sponsorship
Step two is production
Step three broadcasting.

I cant see how you can jump from the ground floor straight to broadcasting.

Look, you're not listening.

No-one is arguing that you do these things in a phased, step process.

but when you have a huge LAUNCH NIGHT in O'Reilly Hall, one would expect you were ready to broadcast.

cast_iron

TheVan wrote:

but when you have a huge LAUNCH NIGHT in O'Reilly Hall, one would expect you were ready to broadcast.

Yes, one would.

But as I understand it, it's not broadcasting due to 'technical problems'. This should well have been sorted beforehand, but it wasn't. I'm pretty sure CTN themselves aren't the ones who will be sorting this - more the colleges AV and tv systems installers.

Just remember that none of the CTN people are professional. So expect a few hiccups along the way, and maybe cut them a little slack.

Stabshauptmann

TheVan wrote:

Look, you're not listening.

No-one is arguing that you do these things in a phased, step process.

but when you have a huge LAUNCH NIGHT in O'Reilly Hall, one would expect you were ready to broadcast.

Launch means to begin. (you could say it has others but they are obviously not physically propelling a studio through the air).


launch (lônch, länch)
v. launched, launch·ing, launch·es
v. tr.

1. To set in motion
2. To set going; initiate: launch a career; launch a business venture.
3. To introduce to the public or to a market

v. intr.

1. To begin a new venture or phase; embark
2. To enter enthusiastically into something; plunge


Broadcasting is not the first step in launching a TV station.
It is fair to say CTN have launched (successfully).

And just as an aside, are you sure that they are looped DvDs (though thats still immaterial to the meaning of the word launch).

hullaballoo

cast_iron wrote:

I may be picking you up wrong here, but to compare CTN programmes to the News at One isn't really fair.

No, it isn't really fair. But then, I didn't compare CTN to news at one.

I was talking about the fact that the no one would be interested in a CD of a radio show, just like no one wants to watch a DVD of a TV channel. It was meiosis.

hullaballoo

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Launch means to begin. (you could say it has others but they are obviously not physically propelling a studio through the air).


launch (lônch, länch)
v. launched, launch·ing, launch·es
v. tr.

1. To set in motion
2. To set going; initiate: launch a career; launch a business venture.
3. To introduce to the public or to a market

v. intr.

1. To begin a new venture or phase; embark
2. To enter enthusiastically into something; plunge


Broadcasting is not the first step in launching a TV station.
It is fair to say CTN have launched (successfully).

And just as an aside, are you sure that they are looped DvDs (though thats still immaterial to the meaning of the word launch).

If I could, I'd ban you from dictionary.com.

There's no need to insult people's intelligence by resorting to a discussion of semantics every time someone disagrees with you.

panda100

hullaballoo wrote:

If I could, I'd ban you from dictionary.com.

.

lol kaptainredeys does like the ol dictionary.com alright.
I just saw ctn filming the world aid thing down in the astra hall.The equipment did look v.basic though. Where they broadcasting the event live?

cast_iron

hullaballoo wrote:

There's no need to insult people's intelligence by resorting to a discussion of semantics every time someone disagrees with you.

In fairness, it appears that Redeye used the semantics in response to mucraker using them. I think that statement would be better aimed at mucraker.

I don't think CTN can be compared to the average tv/radio station. CTN intend playing a continuous loop of their programmes, with newer shows as they materialise. This is not how the average tv/radio station operates.

Even when it does start to "broadcast" across campus - it will probably be just a dvd loop in the a/v centre fed to the various parts of the campus. So, in effect, it will be exactly the same thing.

hullaballoo

cast_iron wrote:

In fairness, it appears that Redeye used the semantics in response to mucraker using them. I think that statement would be better aimed at mucraker.

He was replying to TheVan, not Mucraker.

cast_iron

hullaballoo wrote:

He was replying to TheVan, not Mucraker.

Ok, well it could be argued either way as to who was being responded to if one reads back over it with a fine tooth comb. (Though the original dictionary.com reference came from mucraker, which was my main reference)

In any case, it's not really the point, is it?
Are my other points still valid, or is it just the didacticism you are after?

hullaballoo

No, it couldn't be argued either way; Redeye quoted TheVan and then purported to teach him what the word launch means (which is of itself a didacticism).

What you really mean to say is "why are you picking on KR when you didn't say anything to mucraker?" to which the answer is, I didn't see mucraker do that because I haven't read the thread in full because I have plenty of threads to read and final exams to boot.

You can take it that the "didacticism" was meant for everyone from here on in. (I'm really not sure I'm pointing out the irony of you using this dig at me enough. I told someone not to use semantics to prove a point, the implicit meaning there being that it's pedantic. And pedantry rubs me up the wrong way. Then you go and call me pedantic. Nonsense.)

Stabshauptmann

muckraker wrote:

So 2 or so years isnt long enough for a TV station to 'get up of the ground' and start broadcasting? How long do you think it should take?

And either way, shouldnt they wait until it can broadcast before it 'launches'?

At a guess, seeing as its run by student volunteers, 3 or 4 years.

One thing they could do is spend a year or two making productions and work on lobbying the university to upgrade its infrastructure so as to allow them "broadcast" - transmit university wide, live even .

I dont think the university every would, especially in the absence of any real CTN presence.
ANd I dont think many ppl would like to spend years working hard in the knowledge that they would graduate without seeing the fruits of their labour.

What they did do is make a couple of programmes and used the media available to them, the internet and the TV's around campus to broadcast.

And it is broadcasting,
You used a definition with emphasis on the word transmit.
There are many other ways to define the word:

1. to transmit (programs) from a radio or television station.
2. to speak, perform, sponsor, or present on a radio or television program
3. to cast or scatter abroad over an area, as seed in sowing.
4. to spread widely; disseminate
5. to indicate unwittingly to another (one's next action); telegraph

–verb (used without object)
6. to transmit programs or signals from a radio or television station.
7. to make something known widely; disseminate something.
8. to speak, perform, sponsor, or present all or part of a radio or television program
–noun
9. something that is broadcast.
10. a single radio or television program.
11. the broadcasting of radio or television messages, speeches, etc.
12. a single period of broadcasting.
13. a method of sowing by scattering seed.
–adjective
14. (of programs) transmitted from a radio or television station.
15. of or pertaining to broadcasting.
16. cast abroad or all over an area, as seed scattered widely.
–adverb
17. so as to reach the greatest number of people by radio or television

I accept Hulla that quibbling over semantics isnt the art of skill debating but in this instance two arguments boil down to the interpretation of single words (broadcast for muckraker and launch for TheVan), so I think it only right to point out that their definition of the word is not the only one.

didacticism
di·dac·tic /daɪˈdæktɪk/ [dahy-dak-tik]
–adjective
The act of being a dick



I'll keep my didacticism to a bear minimum

Sangre

A launch party indicates two things, either is a promotion of something that has just started or it finished but is ready to be used by the public (or target demographic).

So, semantically the launch party could correctly apply to CTN in the first instance because it has started its work. If that was the intended point then why did they wait nearly 2 years from the beginning to have this 'launch party'. They are neither fully operational nor are they just beginning (far from it).

As launch parties go, its an odd time to have one.

muckraker

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

At a guess, seeing as its run by student volunteers, 3 or 4 years.

One thing they could do is spend a year or two making productions and work on lobbying the university to upgrade its infrastructure so as to allow them "broadcast" - transmit university wide, live even .

I dont think the university every would, especially in the absence of any real CTN presence.
ANd I dont think many ppl would like to spend years working hard in the knowledge that they would graduate without seeing the fruits of their labour.

What they did do is make a couple of programmes and used the media available to them, the internet and the TV's around campus to broadcast.

And it is broadcasting,
You used a definition with emphasis on the word transmit.
There are many other ways to define the word:

1. to transmit (programs) from a radio or television station.
2. to speak, perform, sponsor, or present on a radio or television program
3. to cast or scatter abroad over an area, as seed in sowing.
4. to spread widely; disseminate
5. to indicate unwittingly to another (one's next action); telegraph

–verb (used without object)
6. to transmit programs or signals from a radio or television station.
7. to make something known widely; disseminate something.
8. to speak, perform, sponsor, or present all or part of a radio or television program
–noun
9. something that is broadcast.
10. a single radio or television program.
11. the broadcasting of radio or television messages, speeches, etc.
12. a single period of broadcasting.
13. a method of sowing by scattering seed.
–adjective
14. (of programs) transmitted from a radio or television station.
15. of or pertaining to broadcasting.
16. cast abroad or all over an area, as seed scattered widely.
–adverb
17. so as to reach the greatest number of people by radio or television

I accept Hulla that quibbling over semantics isnt the art of skill debating but in this instance two arguments boil down to the interpretation of single words (broadcast for muckraker and launch for TheVan), so I think it only right to point out that their definition of the word is not the only one.

didacticism
di·dac·tic /daɪˈdæktɪk/ [dahy-dak-tik]
–adjective
The act of being a dick



I'll keep my didacticism to a bear minimum

This really is ludicrous. The only definitions there that disagree with my position is 'the scattering of seed', an technical a.g. definition that obviously does not apply here, and 'to make something known widely; disseminate something.', a general term which I think we can all agree is not useful when speaking of the transmission of television signals.I wasnt playing semantics by quoting dictionary.com, just pointing out something that seems to have been missed by many here.

There are 3 main critera of work that a TV station needs to fulfill to be a TV station:

The Broadcasting (transmission from a central location to multiple recievers) of programming,
The production of programming,
The presenting of programming,

The first critera is vital. Without it, a TV station is not a TV station. Its that simple. Otherwise, (as I mentioned before), I could turn up at your house with my home videos (programming) on DVD with an intro (presenting), show it to you and claim to be 'broadcasting' - obviously a ludicrous claim. When you give a mix CD you've made to a friend or play some music at a party - are you Radio Station?

CTN is claiming to be broadcasting in the Student Bar.I know for a fact that this is not true. It has also gained sponsors and members on the basis that it will be broadcasting throughout the campus - something that does not seem technically feasible at the moment. the 'launch' of CTN, was I believe supposed to be the 'launch' of the stations broadcasts, and not the launch of CTN the organisation - and no amount of semantic quibbling can change the fact that the broadcasting has not happened yet - and therefore the launch was a sham.

If you think that an entity that plays a looped DVD in one venue on campus (after 2 years of development that is) in any way qualifies as a TV station, then you either have very low expectations, or a fundamental misconception of how television works.

Stabshauptmann

muckraker wrote:

The only definitions there that disagree with my position [on the term broadcasting] is ... 'to make something known widely; disseminate something.', a general term which I think we can all agree is not useful when speaking of the transmission

But you placed the emphasis on the word transmission. Im not redefining transmission, Im saying that is not as integral as you believe.

the 'launch' of CTN, was I believe supposed to be the 'launch' of the stations broadcasts, and not the launch of CTN the organisation

What I think the launch was, was a marketing campaign. It was a showcase of the programming thus far, and a reassurance to their sponsors that things are progressing.
In this respect I think it was a we're finally off the ground celebration. I dont think CTN has reached its pinnacle yet.

- and no amount of semantic quibbling can change the fact that the broadcasting has not happened yet - and therefore the launch was a sham.

No amount of anything will convince you of anything.

If you think that an entity that plays a looped DVD in one venue on campus (after 2 years of development that is) in any way qualifies as a TV station, then you either have very low expectations, or a fundamental misconception of how television works.

Fundamentally, a Campus TV station needs to make origional programmes and broadcast them. I dont particularly care how.

What would satisfy me is 2 broadcasting periods a semester. Each broadcast having say 5-10 programmes and lasting a week.
During this week the progrmmes would be on all the TV monitors throughout campus.
A full library of all productions to date to be available on the website.
TBH, most of the TV programes and films I watch are via the internet.

I dont care if they just loop DVDs in these venues, hook them all up via CCTV or get NASA to launch them their own personal satellite so long as the end result is the same.

mloc

Just watched the hotshots program there, and two of my friends will be appearing on it in the coming episodes.

However, while I commend the effort made on behalf of everyone involved, I have to say the production quality isn't fantastic. I'm not trying to compare it to a commercial or national station, but I do think it's got a lot of room for improvement on simple things such as lighting, editing, sound and telescripting that could be enhanced quite easily. To avoid being hypocritical, I emailed the ctn email address given on their website and offered to help, although I imagine I won't be able to help all that much given my final year commitments.

I think with a bit of improvement on a production level, the final output could be much more watchable. The ideas are there, the staff are there (in particular the presenters on the program are both very good) and I think the commitment is there too.