Ronaldo!

LundiMardi

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Looked like ball to hand from where I was in the stadium

I don't agree man, if you're in the wall then you don't raise your hands, even to cover your face, which is what he did from what i gathered from the replay. If he didn't raise his hands then it wouldn't have been handball. Obviously heh heh.

LundiMardi

c m wrote:

agreed his final delivery was poor tonight but when he ran at them he was absolutely awsome and was one of the only players to make things happen.

But he didn't make anything happen!! that's where peoples distaste for him originates.

A Dub in Glasgo

LundiMardi wrote:

I don't agree man, if you're in the wall then you don't raise your hands, even to cover your face, which is what he did from what i gathered from the replay. If he didn't raise his hands then it wouldn't have been handball. Obviously heh heh.

Are you saying that a player who raises his arms to protect his face is committing a foul if the ball hits the arms in front of his face? Where is the consistancy in applying this rule?

LundiMardi

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are you saying that a player who raises his arms to protect his face is committing a foul if the ball hits the arms in front of his face? Where is the consistancy in applying this rule?

Yeah, pretty much.

How often do you see a wall jumping up in the air with their hands over their faces? You just don't do it, regardless. Head the ball ffs! You know it's coming.

MrJoeSoap

LundiMardi wrote:

How often do you see a wall jumping up in the air with their hands over their faces? You just don't do it, regardless. Head the ball ffs! You know it's coming.

Your hands should have far more important things to be protecting!

cournioni

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are you saying that a player who raises his arms to protect his face is committing a foul if the ball hits the arms in front of his face? Where is the consistancy in applying this rule?

What if you went to head the ball into the net and you put your hands in front of your face to protect your face and the ball went in off your hands? Should that be a goal?

cournioni

LundiMardi wrote:

But he didn't make anything happen!! that's where peoples distaste for him originates.

For the third time... He got United a penalty.

LundiMardi

No, the guy in the wall did.

Any time i've seen Ronaldo take a free kick he just tries to go through the wall!! I think he just relies on luck imho.

A Dub in Glasgo

LundiMardi wrote:

Yeah, pretty much.

How often do you see a wall jumping up in the air with their hands over their faces? You just don't do it, regardless. Head the ball ffs! You know it's coming.

Are all ball to hand incidents in the box penalties?

LundiMardi

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are all ball to hand incidents in the box penalties?

It wasn't ball to hand.

A Dub in Glasgo

Why not? You are suggesting that Maloney put his hand in front of his face to handle the ball then?

LundiMardi

Well, like i said, i only saw the replay, but in my opinion, regardless of whether or not he was protecting his face. The fact is he raised his hands into the path of the ball, i would not call that ball to hand.

If he had his arms by his sides and the ball hit his hand/arm, then i would say it was ball to hand.

A Dub in Glasgo

I have yet to see it on a replay or on TV. If the ball hit Saha or Rooney on the arm in this free kick, should that be a foul as well?




Just looking at that pic, look how high Nakamura got the ball over the wall and into the net

LundiMardi

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I have yet to see it on a replay or on TV. If the ball hit Saha or Rooney on the arm in this free kick, should that be a foul as well?


http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/9366/72617685ev4.jpg

Just looking at that pic, look how high Nakamura got the ball over the wall and into the net

Judging by the pic, if the ball had hit rooney or saha on the arm then yes, i would expect it to be a foul/peno, depending on location of course.

I'm not biased or anything, that just how i see it.

Was an awesome freekick tho:)

jank

if Maloney hadn't stopped it with his hands the ball was flying into the top corner.

First off it was gravasen and next how the **** could you know where the ball could have ended up?

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Yep, but so is every player on the planet.

Congratulations, a very simple way of looking at it.

Put it this way, how many of "the best in the world" are lacking in important parts to their role to the team (i.e. Ronaldo/crossing)?

PHB wrote:

Actually Rooney missed a dead sitter when Ronaldo set him up.
Ronaldo is more a forward than a winger, whose game it is to beat players and then create things, which he has done fantastically this year.

Two goal assists in not fantastic. Particularly for a team that has scored 29 in the league.

PHB wrote:

Well that's just utter crap.

Well come on then, tell me how many frees he has scored in his United career.

PHB wrote:

Aside from his free kicks becoming much better and more on target this year

Well three out of three tonight alone hit the wall.

PHB wrote:

he scored an absolute screamer against Portsmouth.

It did look good for the cameras all right, but lets be honest, it was pure hit and hope. It wasn't even in the corner of the goal, just the pure power (which is all he hits it with, again evidenced tonight) took it past James. The guy just wallops the ball, if it goes on target, which it rarely does (despite your protestations) it will probably cause a problem.

And please don't go on about him "winning" penalty tonight. For a start it was a bit of a shambolic decision. There was no intent what so ever. Ronaldo hardly played it off his hand. It was a hit and hope where by he was lucky that the ref gave a soft peno.

PHB wrote:

You might wonder why it is that he is allowed take the shots ahead of Scholes, Giggs, and Rooney. It's cause he is more likely to get the goal, either by direct strike, or by the goalie unable to parry properly, than they are.

Of course I do, seeing as the evidence would back up that he is not more than likely to get a goal. Giggs was a quality free kick taker back in his day. It doesn't really bother me to be honest, I don't mind seeing United waste their dead ball opportunities.

PHB wrote:

That was about his general form, not a specific miss. Ronaldo's general form has been great.

He has been effective this year. But is he really that good? He looked like the only player that was going to do something tonight, but once again when he got into good positions nothing came about from it. He has bundles of power and pace, almost too much for his own good, he has no idea how to control it, which goes back to the lack of a footballing brain point.

PHB wrote:

Really? In the league, there is no winger which outscores him.
Young has 3 goals and 4 assist - playing a fantastic season
Giggs has 2 goals and 4 assists
Ronaldo has 4 goals and 2 assists

Let's look at the other 'best' players:
Robben 0 goals and 2 assists
Hleb 1 goal and 2 assist
Garcia 1 goal and 3 asssits
MPG 1 goal and 2 assists

For a start, why not consider other forward players?

Take Garcia for example, he has started less than half the league games that Ronaldo has. Is his return not as good or better? But I wouldn't dare talk about Garcia in such esteem as you do Ronaldo, because I can lay my loyalties aside and see that a player who wastes as much ball as either of those two and does as little defensive work, is not "one of the best in the world".

Like I've said already, over both of their careers in England seperating their returns in goals and assists is like splitting hairs. Now consider that United have done much better than Liverpool over those periods, going in Ronaldos favour. But I wouldn't dare consider Garcia "world class".

Hleb is not a "forward". Why not compare him to Van Persie, far more of a "forward"?

I wouldn't class him as better than Robben (whom I don't even rate highly) or Joe Cole. They've both played less games and not in as accomodating as system to their talents.

PHB wrote:

Compared to most wingers in the premiership, he is streaks ahead of them, while still being 21.

He should be streaks ahead of "most wingers", he is playing for a team with title credentials. He is not however "streaks ahead" of the best wingers in the league. If anything he is lacking behind a few of them, mainly because of his inconsistency.

kinaldo

I just don't get how C.Ronaldo is so good / unstoppable in the new Pro Evo game. I was playing against Man Utd earlier and it was like I was up against a one man team.

eirebhoy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are you saying that a player who raises his arms to protect his face is committing a foul if the ball hits the arms in front of his face? Where is the consistancy in applying this rule?

For me it was definitely a deliberate handball by Maloney and I said that before the peno was taken. He dived out to it. No point in arguing it when Boruc saved it anyway.

MrJoeSoap

Only saw the highlights there, and have to say I thought it was a penalty too. Arms were out from his body and not exactly covering his face.

A Dub in Glasgo

Just saw the highlights, I have seen them not given more time than given but what a save from Boruc.

ITV are really biased though, Giggs did not stop for his attempt when it was pulled up offside. They showed Jarosik going down easily for the foul yet not one mention of Heinze elbowing Jarosik in the face!!


What a freekick from Nakamura!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eirebhoy

I couldn't give a shte. Celtic are through with a game in hand. As for Naka:
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6564/nakazb5.jpg

I had that much trust in him. He really is a star.

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote:

I couldn't give a shte. Celtic are through with a game in hand. As for Naka:
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6564/nakazb5.jpg

I had that much trust in him. He really is a star.

Lol had him in my team as well but made the huge mistake of forgetting to change my captain from Rooney. 4 poxy points he got me.

cournioni

jank wrote:

First off it was gravasen and next how the **** could you know where the ball could have ended up?

It was Maloney. Watch it again, Gravesen got booked for protesting. Even the ITV commentators said "oh it was actually Maloney". The ball was on target, and he stopped a possible goal with his hands.

jank

The ball was on target

It could have gone any where

Jivin Turkey

PORNAPSTER wrote:

The ball was on target, and he stopped a possible goal with his hands.

You can't say that for sure. Particularly if you consider it hit Maloneys arm, which were at his shoulder/head height, after he had leaped in the air, and the ball was still 15 yards or so from goal.

Experience would lead us to believe that if Ronaldo's free kick was that high (I would imagine not too far from crossbar height), with 15 yards to travel, the ball would be well over by the time it reached the goal line.

And that is assuming he would have kept it between the posts, which is a mighty assumption.

Regardless I don't think it was a penalty, I think Maloney jumped to block the ball and turned when it was coming at him. Hence why you could see it from the near touchline camera angle. If he had a shred of a brain, the last thing he'd do is handle a ball like that intentionally.

Attractive Nun

I have defended Ronaldo to the hilt time and time again on this board, so I may as well continue now!

Firstly, I have always admitted that Ronaldo is not a good free kick taker. He has improved this season with a few goals and assists from them, but he does just fire them as hard as he can in the general direction of the goalmouth. But there's obviously a reason he takes them, and it's because he's most likely to create a goal. Rooney is ****e at free kicks, he scored one fluke against Fenerbache when the wall parted like the Red Sea, and that's it. Giggs is a better crosser, but he doesn't have the power or precision to score as often. Scholes is as much of a blaster as Ronaldo, but gets nowhere near the amount of action on the ball as Cristiano. Ronaldo is the best of a bad bunch, in reality. Not his fault, but it's going to make him look bad unfairly.

His decision-making has improved infinitely this season. It's very rare now that he'll lose possession while performing a trick - in general they all come off for him and, if not necessary, they are certainly beneficial. He is playing the ball a lot sooner than he used to. He's undoubtedly not as 'natural' a footballer as is, say, Rooney, but he is learning and trying to improve - and succeeding, I might add.

He has cut diving almost completely out of his game and his playacting is now down to normal professional footballing levels. Considering his Portuguese upbringing, this is an achievement in itself and is to his great credit.

He doesn't track back to defend as often as other players because he is given the responsibility to remain upfield if United win the ball back. This, obviously, is because he is the quickest player we have and will therefore likely achieve the most success. Despite this, in open play, you'll find him back in his own half far more than similarly positioned players throughout the world.

The big flaw in the game IMO is his ability to hit a moving ball, i.e. crossing or delivering that final ball at the end of a mazy run. This has never been his game, and he hasn't improved all that much in this area compared to his improvements in other areas, but I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the future. If he does, he could be devastating.


But, to get off the defensive for a moment, I should say a few things. Ronaldo is without a doubt one of the world's most effective dribblers. He has passion, absolutely electric pace, fantastic skill, and perhaps two of the best feet in the League (in terms of shooting). He is great in the air and has fantastic control. While he can sometimes he frustrating, he is more often exhilarating. His self-confidence, tenacity and - yes - arrogance in the face of disgusting treatment by fans and media alike are illustrative of strong personality and symptoms of the type of player that he is, the player that is willing to try things even when everything else is going wrong. He's already one of the best players in the Premiership, and could well become one of the best in the world.

c m

Attractive Nun wrote:

I have defended Ronaldo to the hilt time and time again on this board, so I may as well continue now!

Firstly, I have always admitted that Ronaldo is not a good free kick taker. He has improved this season with a few goals and assists from them, but he does just fire them as hard as he can in the general direction of the goalmouth. But there's obviously a reason he takes them, and it's because he's most likely to create a goal. Rooney is ****e at free kicks, he scored one fluke against Fenerbache when the wall parted like the Red Sea, and that's it. Giggs is a better crosser, but he doesn't have the power or precision to score as often. Scholes is as much of a blaster as Ronaldo, but gets nowhere near the amount of action on the ball as Cristiano. Ronaldo is the best of a bad bunch, in reality. Not his fault, but it's going to make him look bad unfairly.

His decision-making has improved infinitely this season. It's very rare now that he'll lose possession while performing a trick - in general they all come off for him and, if not necessary, they are certainly beneficial. He is playing the ball a lot sooner than he used to. He's undoubtedly not as 'natural' a footballer as is, say, Rooney, but he is learning and trying to improve - and succeeding, I might add.

He has cut diving almost completely out of his game and his playacting is now down to normal professional footballing levels. Considering his Portuguese upbringing, this is an achievement in itself and is to his great credit.

He doesn't track back to defend as often as other players because he is given the responsibility to remain upfield if United win the ball back. This, obviously, is because he is the quickest player we have and will therefore likely achieve the most success. Despite this, in open play, you'll find him back in his own half far more than similarly positioned players throughout the world.

The big flaw in the game IMO is his ability to hit a moving ball, i.e. crossing or delivering that final ball at the end of a mazy run. This has never been his game, and he hasn't improved all that much in this area compared to his improvements in other areas, but I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the future. If he does, he could be devastating.


But, to get off the defensive for a moment, I should say a few things. Ronaldo is without a doubt one of the world's most effective dribblers. He has passion, absolutely electric pace, fantastic skill, and perhaps two of the best feet in the League (in terms of shooting). He is great in the air and has fantastic control. While he can sometimes he frustrating, he is more often exhilarating. His self-confidence, tenacity and - yes - arrogance in the face of disgusting treatment by fans and media alike are illustrative of strong personality and symptoms of the type of player that he is, the player that is willing to try things even when everything else is going wrong. He's already one of the best players in the Premiership, and could well become one of the best in the world.

great comment! you obviously watch the game and not just the analysis.
one other part of his game thats brilliant is his first touch. you never see ronaldo lose the ball on his first touch. for you rooney fans and those who think ronaldo loses the ball SO much it might interest you to know that while ronaldo has failed in 54 passes in 11 premiership games rooney has failed with 105 in 10 games.fact.

TonyD79

One of the great misses, he's been taking finishing lessons from John O'Shea.

He could be such a great player but lacks a footballing brain. United should have signed Quaresma instead

Quaresma went to barcelona for around 8 million when manu bought ronaldo..did nothing played a handful of games and was loaned back to Sporting lisbon last year. Barcelona would bite manu's hand off them if they offered them Ronaldo....his playing very well this season best winger in the leage...what can be said for damien duff??????? terrible miss but if he had tapped it in we would hardly call it world class either... if he had tried one of his stupid tricks of his he would have atleast had reason to miss it!!

TonyD79

If it was Ireland versus England in a world cup semi final and robbie keane took a free kick and gary neville did exactly waht moloney did.....i some how doubt anyone would be posting anything about it apart from an english supporter..you shouldnt have your hands protecting ur face.. if he is not a man he should have ducked or not been in the wall period..u dont see jamie carragher or john terry doing it in a wall so shut it..sour grapes....what if manu had put a man on the line to discourage a shot from d free kick into that corner and he used his hand to protect his face?

A Dub in Glasgo

TonyD79 wrote:

If it was Ireland versus England in a world cup semi final and robbie keane took a free kick and gary neville did exactly waht moloney did.....i some how doubt anyone would be posting anything about it apart from an english supporter..you shouldnt have your hands protecting ur face.. if he is not a man he should have ducked or not been in the wall period..u dont see jamie carragher or john terry doing it in a wall so shut it..sour grapes....what if manu had put a man on the line to discourage a shot from d free kick into that corner and he used his hand to protect his face?

If it was Ireland versus England in a world cup semi final and David Beckham took a free kick and Robbie Keane did exactly waht moloney did.....i some how doubt anyone would be posting anything about it apart from an Irish supporter..you shouldnt have your hands protecting ur face..

Shut it??

cournioni

Jivin Turkey wrote:

You can't say that for sure. Particularly if you consider it hit Maloneys arm, which were at his shoulder/head height, after he had leaped in the air, and the ball was still 15 yards or so from goal.

Maybe so, but he leapt out of the wall in the process, which also could have influenced the referee's decision. I've already said it was a harsh call, but to say that it definately wasn't a penalty would be completely wrong.

Please note how I said, stopped a possible goal.

Jivin Turkey

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Maybe so, but he leapt out of the wall in the process, which also could have influenced the referee's decision. I've already said it was a harsh call, but to say that it definately wasn't a penalty would be completely wrong.

The referee gave it so it was a penalty. I just think it was a very harsh call, and would be extremely disappointed had it been called against my team, as I'm sure anyone saying that it was a definite penalty would be too.

The pace the ball was with meant that Maloney knew nothing about it.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Please note how I said, stopped a possible goal.

I did. But you said it was on target. That's not necessarily true.

cournioni

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The referee gave it so it was a penalty. I just think it was a very harsh call, and would be extremely disappointed had it been called against my team, as I'm sure anyone saying that it was a definite penalty would be too.

The pace the ball was with meant that Maloney knew nothing about it.


I did. But you said it was on target. That's not necessarily true.

In fairness JT, he knew enough about it to run out of the wall with his hands up to block the ball. I would be very disappointed if it was against my team, but this thing of ball to hand gets on my goat at times. I reckon if it is stopping a possible goal, then there should be a free or a penalty against it.

John Terry blocked so many goal bound shots with his hands last year it really brought it to my attention. Once the ball is going on target and an outfield player blocks it with his arms, whether intentional or unintentional it should be a free kick or a penalty. After all it is denying the player striking the ball a possible goal.

A Dub in Glasgo

Consistency is all that is asked.

Is running out of the wall before the free kick is taken an infringement?

Jivin Turkey

PORNAPSTER wrote:

In fairness JT, he knew enough about it to run out of the wall with his hands up to block the ball. I would be very disappointed if it was against my team, but this thing of ball to hand gets on my goat at times. I reckon if it is stopping a possible goal, then there should be a free or a penalty against it.

John Terry blocked so many goal bound shots with his hands last year it really brought it to my attention. Once the ball is going on target and an outfield player blocks it with his arms, whether intentional or unintentional it should be a free kick or a penalty. After all it is denying the player striking the ball a possible goal.

I don't want to get into the discussion re the penalty award. IMO it was a very harsh decision, that's not going to change. I think that particuarly from a free kick, where players are anticipating a shot and are guarding their faces/nuts accordingly some slack has to be given to them.

You'd hardly expect them (or do yourself ) to stand, hands behind back, crotch out?

PHB

I personally think it's a peno, but I think whenever you put your hands out in a way that isn't natural and the ball hits it, then it's a peno.
This is more to do with the belief that if we did this sorta thing, and these sorta penos were called more, the stuff that Terry does all the time would start to be called for penos.

My question in relation to the specific incident is why did he put his hands up? You may say he was guarding his face, but he wasn't exactly doing that. If he was putting both his hands on his face then I could understand this point of view. But he put his hands maybe a half foot away from his face, making his face about 4 times as big(effectivly). This is cheating.

There is a reason why in all football games when the players jump, they do so with their arms at their side. It's cause anything else is using your hands to try create an extra shield.