SU Council Motions, Mon 27th November 2006

gubbie

And man do I agree with Vainglory. All I want is to ask Dan and the sabbats a few questions but I ain't staying for longer then an hour and a half. Me has good things to do. Even worse is they're not DUH obvious. They're ones that are gonna be debated

Blush_01

Short and sweet:

1: Mollycoddling.
2: I'm blue in the face from saying this - TIMED FIREWALL!
3: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA - No.
4: Will you really need a full roll per session? How about you buy two, and when one has run out you buy another one, so there's always an emergency spare? I'd also recommend handcuffing Farrell's hands behind his back so he can't remove the tape until after council.
5: About time, the trap is a bit of a kip.
6: Makes sense
7: Extend it to the laundrettes too? Pretty please?
8: Support for students who are having their degrees changed without sufficient notice? Sounds good to me!
9: Makes sense
10: I'm all for commemoration of dead students. Charlie wasn't a UCD student when he died. Basically, he was a political activist, setting up the Student Vanguard while in UCD. Ok, so he was anti-Facist, but he was also arrested twice for picketing factories, before fcuking off to war. Surely the SU needs to deal with things that appeal to the student body as a whole? I'm not very supportive of a whole lot of money being thrown at someone that very few people in UCD care about and who needs to be googled for anyone other than the proposers of the motion and a select few others to have a clue who he is. Besides, the sample of his poetry that they had up on the site I went to was a bit crap really. Yes, I'm that fickle.
11: Newswire is a message board, in effect, right? Then what the hell does it have to do with the SU website, other than acting as its forum? If it's currently acting as a forum within the website as a whole, who cares, leave it there. If not, then seperate it.
12: Well I'm pro the banners being used only for SU sanctioned issues. The idea that anyone who likes could haul a banner off and claim UCDSU support for their granny's gangrenous leg amputation or whatever at a whim is ridiculous.
13: Makes sense
14: Makes even more sense

I think that covers current feelings on the issues.

GusherING

The_Minister wrote:

Gusher_ing you are completely misinterpreting the reason for the motion.
The Rossport motion it refers to refers to the Jailing of the Rossport Five. That is grand, and over with. They are out.
The problem is that "lefties" are using one line of the motion to justify continued campaigns against Shell, even though the union rejected a motion to support Shell to Sea. This ambiguous line is the one that is causing the problem, as it is being used to create a non-existant (in my view and many others) mandate. This motion will put an end to that.
No-one is saying that lefties high-jaked the council, we are saying that they have deliberately interpreted this one line as validating ALL campaigns against Shell.

I am not a proposer of the motion.

Whatever way the 2005 motion can be interpreted is all academic really. Council will decide when the facts are laid out before it, most likely in favour of this proposal. My point was entirely about the style and tone of the motion itself. Its pejorative and despite your last sentence there, I beg to differ! Thats all I'm saying. Next time a motion is proposed to repeal another it could be done a lot better and less divisively. As I agreed with you earlier, non-partisanship is better, and it was in that sense that I made my comments. This motion does little to further that.

The_Minister

GusherING wrote:

Its pejorative and despite your last sentence there, I beg to differ!

I presume you mean the second-last? The proposer is on boards but I am not him.


EDIT: Has anyone else ever noticed that Blush_01 is one of those few delightful posters whose posts are always worth the effort of reading?

Blush_01

pretty*monster wrote:

Joyce already has a monument in ucd.
Is it 'disgraceful' that he does when others don't? Was it 'disgraceful' of whatever comittee or whatever to single Joyce out for a monumment?
Things aren't 'disgraceful' just because you disagree with them.

They stuck his head - ok, bust, whatever - beside a ramp in a bunch of flowers (which is a pretty lousy commemoration, if you ask me). Then last year they decided to call the library after him (I'm guessing because it's the "done thing" internationally). He only got a 2:1 degree so there's hope for everyone.

As for the Haughey thing Conor, I guess he was giving examples of people who've done as much or more than Charlie Whatshisname who are possibly not commemorated and should be considered first. I don't think anyone would seriously love to see a representation of Haughey's smug gob peering at them from one of the other mini-shrubberies somewhere on campus. Maybe they could put him on top of that odd symbol beside the lake and have something to commemorate all the students of UCD shoving him in? I'd like that.

GusherING

The_Minister wrote:

I presume you mean the second-last? The proposer is on boards but I am not him.

My bad! The second last sentence is what I meant! :eek: :eek: Too little sleep I fear!

See you at council! I'm off to bed!

abelard

cast_iron wrote:

Em, excuse me, but both myself and aprox 7,500 Sports Club members of 58 Sports Clubs may take offence to this. Yes, there are that many. And yes, they do orgainse and advertise events.
I know there is a general disdain in Hackville towards Clubs, but at least try and look out for ALL that use posters. (Many would consider the motion an insult because of said wording, - it is - but I don't think any offence was intended.)

I don't think I get you. Why do you find this so offensive?

Blush_01

It only made reference to societies, clubs feel neglected, therefore he's pointing out how clubs have been overlooked (probably once again, they usually aren't as visible on campus as societies).

Stabshauptmann

cast_iron wrote:

Em, excuse me, but both myself and aprox 7,500 Sports Club members of 58 Sports Clubs may take offence to this. Yes, there are that many. And yes, they do orgainse and advertise events.
I know there is a general disdain in Hackville towards Clubs, but at least try and look out for ALL that use posters. (Many would consider the motion an insult because of said wording, - it is - but I don't think any offence was intended.)

Ah ****, it was an oversight nothing more.
What is your collective body and who is its head and I will write an amedment immediately.

That being said, ive no idea what the "general disdain in Hackville is about".
I play frisbee and richie plays rugby.

Blush_01

I'd imagine it's a paranoia thing.

panda100

cast_iron wrote:

I don't doubt for 1 second this is meant as a joke. While there may be logical reasoning behind it, it shows how deluded the proposers are.
They sure as hell need a reality check - and realise who they are, what for and why they are there.

Self important fools:
Kevin J. Doyle Final Year School of History and Archives (The J says it all)
Hugh Doddy 1st School of Sociology


.

Im for one am very intrested to hear what Happycrackhead the comeback kid has to say about this?

As for the first motion (positive body images) that is not the motion that will be submitted at this council.It is under construction and Il have it up by wednesday. It will send out a more positive message rather then banning things outright.So im sure there wont be much discusiion on it at next council

singingstranger

Just so it's known, the motion on purchasing duct tape has been withdrawn.

The_Minister

singingstranger wrote:

Just so it's known, the motion on purchasing duct tape has been withdrawn.

Ah, Boo. Something needs to be done to stop Pierce. The man isn't even funny anymore.

Stabshauptmann

pretty*monster wrote:

Oh for heavens sake, how many is that?

Th number isnt important, my tunnel visioned friend, its how many are likly to be debated that we should worry about.

Motions on Notice wrote:

Motion on creating a positive body image in Union publications

Motion to ban Bebo from all Library computers

Motion Calling for Provision of Free Beverage Tokens After Each Council

Motion Regarding the Refurbishment of the Trap

Motion Regarding the Postering Regulations in UCD

Motion Calling for the Introduction of Change Machines in the Library

Motion calling for an on campus campaign to raise awareness and campaign against changes to curricula across the university

Motion Regarding the collation of Council Mandates for the Last Three Years

Motion Regarding the Erection of a Monument to Charlie Donnelly and Other Deceased Students of UCD

Motion Regarding Union Website

Motion Regarding the Students' Union Stance on the Corrib Gas Project

Motion to amend Standing Orders for the provision of a time limit for Motions passed By SU Council

Motion to amend the procedure for proposing Procedural Motion IX (a)

I thought ppl would be upset by my inclusion of vampires but its likly to go unnoticed given the duct tape one and the beers one.
Both of which I cant see making it to council (actually the duct tape one has already been withdrawn).

Kate you say that straight forward things dont need to be motions. But A)Who is to say what is straight forward and B)If it is straight forward then it wont take much time at council C)What is the point of motions and reps if things are better sereved by just asking the relevent sabbat in private.

Motion on creating a positive body image in Union publications
Wait till I see it, probably in favour, expecting debate

Motion to ban Bebo from all Library computers
In favour, possible amendment, expecting debate

Motion Calling for Provision of Free Beverage Tokens After Each Council
Im dead against. Elitist hacks.

Motion to Mandate the President to Purchase Duct Tape
Withdrawn.

Motion Regarding the Refurbishment of the Trap
Obviously in favour

Motion Regarding the Postering Regulations in UCD
Obviously in favour

Motion Calling for the Introduction of Change Machines in the Library
Obviously in favour

Motion calling for an on campus campaign to raise awareness and campaign against changes to curricula across the university
Straight forward

Motion Regarding the collation of Council Mandates for the Last Three Years
Definitly in favour and straight forward enough

Motion Regarding the Erection of a Monument to Charlie Donnelly and Other Deceased Students of UCD
Against. Expecting debate

Motion Regarding Union Website
In favour. Expecting debate

Motion Regarding the Students' Union Stance on the Corrib Gas Project
In favour Expecting debate

Motion to amend Standing Orders for the provision of a time limit for Motions passed By SU Council
In favour.

Motion to amend the procedure for proposing Procedural Motion IX (a)
In favour. Straight forward.



So thats only 5 motions I expect debate on, the longest one being at the back.

Vainglory

Am I wrong or is there a lecture theatre named after Kevin Barry in the Terrace?

abelard

Vainglory wrote:

Am I wrong or is there a lecture theatre named after Kevin Barry in the Terrace?

According to a friend who's doing medicine in there, yes there is indeed

Vainglory

abelard wrote:

According to a friend who's doing medicine in there, yes there is indeed

How disgraceful and overtly political of UCD!!!!!!!!!

MatthewVII

Vainglory wrote:

How disgraceful and overtly political of UCD!!!!!!!!!

I really don't see any problem in naming a room after probably the most famous medical student to enroll in UCD. He's an inspiration to a lot of people, political affiliations aside.

The_Minister

Vainglory wrote:

Am I wrong or is there a lecture theatre named after Kevin Barry in the Terrace?

I thought that it ws just a room.

Besides:
Barry was still a UCD student when he died.
He died in a war that affected Ireland, and by proximity, all of us. I am not a green Republican, but I rate the War of Independence as far more important than the Spanish Civil War. Fighting in the former was a duty, the latter a choice.
He actually lead raids, and wasn't just promoted because there was no-one else.
He was hung.
He was accorded a state funeral
and finally,
If we tried to give him that room now, you would object.

pigeonbutler

There is a memorial to Kevin Barry alright. But despite the adoption of his name by the cumann in UCD (much as Trinity cumann is called after Wolfetone) it is merely a memorial to a former student that died fighting for Irish Independence. It doesn't mean that Kevin Barry or Theobald Wolftone were ever members of or in the slightest way linked to Fianna Fail. Would be tough seeing as Barry died 7 years before FF were founded, and Wolfetone 128 years before!!! So I don't see how the Kevin Barry room in the terrace is in someway divisive!!

It was dedicated soon after his death I'd imagine when the students (mainly nationalists at the time) would have cared deeply about the execution of one of their number by the occupying power. I don't think you can draw parallels (hate sp/ that word!!!) between him and Charlie Donnelly, who died 70 odd years ago and as has been pointed out, only a very small number of students have ever heard of. I don't wish to spit on his memory or anything, but singling out someone almost no-one has heard of doesn't seem appropriate.

And as far my motion re: Rossport, it's the exact same text (minus one line) as was submitted to Council 3 weeks ago. That debate showed general agreement to the bulk of it but widespread opposition to the line that's been removed. There was never any criticism of the language it used then. Do I sense people clutching at straws? The language is identical because I submitted it at 4.59pm yesterday, with seconds to spare before the deadline.

Vainglory

So your disagreement IS just for political reasons rather than disagreeing with singling anyone out for special mention then...

Blush_01

Yeah, well ET won't be an issue for much longer. Whether serious or not (would I be terribly out of line in hearing that in a sarcastic tone?) it's current and future decisions that are of most importance here, is it not? Besides, compare knowledge of Kevin Barry to that of Charlie Whatshisface (on a sweep across campus) and see who gets more "WTF?" responses from people.

Panda's reworded motion should clarify lots, and makes much more sense. As it stands in SS's OP, it's a bit sh*t. But the revised one is much better.

Vainglory

It doesn't have to be PARTY political for it to be political, either. As far as I'm aware, Donnelly wasn't a member of a political party when he died either, much like Barry.

Vainglory

Blush_01 wrote:

Yeah, well ET won't be an issue for much longer. Whether serious or not (would I be terribly out of line in hearing that in a sarcastic tone?) it's current and future decisions that are of most importance here, is it not? Besides, compare knowledge of Kevin Barry to that of Charlie Whatshisface (on a sweep across campus) and see who gets more "WTF?" responses from people.

Panda's reworded motion should clarify lots, and makes much more sense. As it stands in SS's OP, it's a bit sh*t. But the revised one is much better.

I have to say, leaving the substantive issue aside, that I think it's rather disrespectful of you to say "Charlie Whatshisface". Saying "Charlie Donnelly" would make the point you are making just as well, without causing offence. Like him, hate him, or no opinion on him, he's still a young man who died, and if you used that phrase about someone from UCD who died yesterday, it would be equatable disrespect.

Blush_01

You're lucky I remembered his first name was Charlie.

pigeonbutler

Vainglory wrote:

So your disagreement IS just for political reasons rather than disagreeing with singling anyone out for special mention then...

No. It's not for political reasons. Well not any moreso than your outrage at a proposal to send good wishes to a dying former Taoiseach.

I don't disagree in principal with singling out individuals for special mention. I think the James Joyce Library is a very appropriate name for example. But if you're going to pick out people for special mention, they should be relevant, rather than unheard of.

Soldiers that fight in wars are rarely fully aware of the consequences of their involvement so I think honouring this gentleman is only fair if we go about honouring former students that fought in the 2 World wars, Korea, Vietnam, the Falklands, the Gulf. "Ireland didn't fight in those conflicts" I hear you say. But Ireland has a long history of men joining the military forces of the USA and UK and the men who fought no doubt believed that they were fighting for the forces of good at the time, even if some were less just than others.

The_Minister

Vainglory wrote:

It doesn't have to be PARTY political for it to be political, either. As far as I'm aware, Donnelly wasn't a member of a political party when he died either, much like Barry.

He was "active in socialist politics" according to the web.
He also founded the Student Vanguard, which seems to have been the equivilant of the uber-violent AFA of today.

Miss GAAfia

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Th number isnt important, my tunnel visioned friend, its how many are likly to be debated that we should worry about.

Don't be so patronising, it's not appreciated.

Vainglory

Blush_01 wrote:

You're lucky I remembered his first name was Charlie.

You're a disgrace.

I think these boards can often drop to dizzying lows but disrespecting and insulting people who have passed away really is a new personal best.

humbert

Vainglory wrote:

You're a disgrace.

I think these boards can often drop to dizzying lows but disrespecting and insulting people who have passed away really is a new personal best.

That's ridiculous, he's dead 70 years. Christ, he's a historical figure (that feck all people have ever heard of) at this stage not your best friend.