Champions League - Matchday 5

Royale with Cheese

jank wrote:

Great result by Arsenal tonight. Didnt play the best but should lots of guts and fight to get a result in the 2nd half!

Senderous was great. We wont be missing gallas too much.
Cesc controlled the match like a conductor.
Flamini was excellant too. Great engine and drive. I want to see more of him in the team.
Hleb was good also as was Van Persie. Went close a few times but got his goal. Should have stayed on!

Henry very quiet again and abe? Not arsenal material. Far from it. Did **** all against newcastle.

Cesc was a bit hit and miss, gave the ball away a good few times.

Hleb I thought was brilliant but started to give the ball away a bit before he was taken off.

1-1, realistically needing a goal or Arse would be going out and Wenger takes off Van Persie for Adebayor. What was he thinking? It wouldn't be so bad if Van Persie was playing badly but he wasn't, he'd already scored ffs.

I wasn't sure about Walcott coming on but he really changed the game. Great to see him performing. He did offer something different in effective traditional wingplay. Hleb was brilliant but he's never going to get to the byline and deliver the ball in, he is really a centre mid after all... as is Rosicky.

yop

Well done Celtic, played like an Eircom league team for the 1st when United should have put them to the sword, but when you don't scored you cannot expect to get much out of the game!

Always make things hard for ourselves but still expect to get at least the required point.

_blank_

yop wrote:

Well done Celtic, played like an Eircom league team for the 1st

:rolleyes:

Not just any other SPL team then, no?

gustavo

yop wrote:

Well done Celtic, played like an Eircom league team for the 1st when United should have put them to the sword, .

haha
well now I know they didnt play like Derry City or Shelbourne anyway. Perhaps you were referring to Longford Town , but surely it wasnt just another ignorant and lazy turn of phrase:eek:

loyatemu

the shallowness of utd's squad was really shown last night. needing to chase the game, who did they bring on? O'Shea and Evra! The only attacking player they had on the bench was Richardson - he's sh*te but still would've been better than O'Shea.

Gonna have to get the chequebook out in january, fergie.

patmac

As a supporter of both I was delighted with the win as it means both teams should get through, I thought Strachan's tactics were spot on don't give an early goal away and try and nick one near the end. United are a long way from the finished article(1999 team for instance) lots of possession but can't remember Celtic's goal being in any danger up till the penalty,lose at home to the 5th placed Portuguese side and United don't deserve to win the CL. Also Utd don't seem to have a lot in reserve if the two subs they bring on when chasing the game are Evra and O'Shea.
Am I right in thinking that if Arsenal and Porto draw they both qualify no matter what CSKA do the three sides records against eachother would be 1 win 2 draws 1 defeat with Arsenal GD. being 1, Porto 0 and CSKA -1? Look out for an exciting 0-0 in two weeks time.

redspider

Congratulations to Celtic on winning last night and getting through to the final-16. Man Utd were the better team overall, creating more chances but at the same time meeting stubborn and well organised Celtic resistance. Strachan's plan worked well, defending the first half, and creating more in the 2nd half.

A superb free-kick from Nakamura. Hard to blame vd Sar. It wasnt really a foul it has to be said. Having said that, the free-kick that led to the penalty for Man Utd was also harshly given as was the penalty itself. Was it not a case of the player being too close to the ball (less than 10 yards) and ball to hand rather than hand ball. He wasnt even looking at the ball when it hit him. Justice was done on that with a brilliant save from Boruc.

Overall, I thought a draw would have been a fair result. S, Celtic definietly gained.

In terms of some of the issues, Man Utd have problems. Ronaldo's not good at passing, great at running but the 'fina product' lets him down. Rooney at times was in the wrong areas, and Saha fires a lot of blanks. Having said all that, they are still a very good team, and these players can work well against many teams, if not all teams, in the english league.

I think Ferguson in his heart of hearts realises that after these two defeats that a CL win is not likely, not unless something changes and the players.

Very good performances again from the 'old men' on the team. Giggs and Scholes. The back-line did well enough. However, the subs lacked imagination from Ferguson and perhaps shows that Man Utd does not have a deep squad. How they would cope with 5 or 6 injuries to their top players is anyone's guess.

For Celtic, Balde looked rusty at the start. Such a physical player can backfire in terms of giving away free-kicks, etc. McGeady didnt get a run out but Maloney was effective. Both Lennon and Gravesen were busy and useful in the centre of the park.

Celtic have achieved what I would have put down as a top target for them at the begining of the season, the final-16. What with the league wrapped up in all but name, its party time.

As for Arsenal, the game could have ended 1-1. Hamburg raised their game, and only for an unlikely 2nd goal and the goalie mistake, things could have been different. Both teams had chances. But overall, 3-1 is a nice win for them and much needed.

Lyon also showed their mettle last night.

Redspider

yop

seansouth wrote:

:rolleyes:

Not just any other SPL team then, no?

What ?

gustavo wrote:

:
haha
well now I know they didnt play like Derry City or Shelbourne anyway. Perhaps you were referring to Longford Town , but surely it wasnt just another ignorant and lazy turn of phrase

Enlighten me as to what I said was ignorant?

gustavo

yop wrote:

What ?



Enlighten me as to what I said was ignorant?

you said they were playing like an Eircom League club , from what i saw of the match they were playing with a very defensive style , very few of the Eircom League clubs play with a defensive style.

yop

gustavo wrote:

you said they were playing like an Eircom League club , from what i saw of the match they were playing with a very defensive style , very few of the Eircom League clubs play with a defensive style.

Well actually what I said was probably harsh on some of the EL teams as they can pass the ball 10 yards and would have more exciting to watch than Celtic last night in the 1st half.

What I should have said was that the level of football, passing, creativity was like what I have seen in the EL this season.

Of course they changed their style of play completly in the 2nd half and got their reward.

eirebhoy

yop wrote:

What I should have said was that the level of football, passing, creativity was like what I have seen in the EL this season.

If this was a team like Blackburn playing like Celtic did last night I've absolutely no doubt you wouldn't even think of comparing them to an EL team. If Celtic were that poor United would have created more than 1 clear chance in the whole match. Balde was terrible and Sno-Lennon didn't work yet again, that's what made it such a poor first half performance. Drop the bloody "level of football" thing. It's annoying enough having to listen to every pundit go on about it.

cruiserweight

Liverpool team for tonight is

Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Riise, Pennant, Alonso, Gerrard, Gonzalez, Kuyt, Crouch

Xavi6

Chelsea one down. Barca in trouble now....

KdjaCL

Barca 1-0 after 4


kdjac

el rabitos

ugh....gonzalez & alonso off after 30 mins ffs

kaimera

Xabi injured?

off after 21 I'm reading on SS.

el rabitos

looks like he had a dead leg, went in for a tackle with a psv player and the other players knee crashed into his thigh

kaimera

Gerrard

1-0

bohsman

Fantastic performance from Bremen so far, well deserve their lead.

el rabitos

2 - 0

crouch

mike65

Good result, did'nt see any of the first half so missed the first two injuries.
Alonso, Gonzo and Pennant all off, Alonso should be fine in a week if not sooner, the other two might be out for a couple or three weeks. Proberly end up with Garcia on the left and Bellamy on the right.

Reina looked much like the old model tonight, Kuyt/Crouch worked well the former setting up Gerrard superbly, then nodding on for Crouch (I think!).

Mike.

super_furry

Lovely stuff. The Reds win 2-0, I switch over and not only are Chelsea losing but the Bremen fans are singing YNWA.

redspider

First off, I have to say I am DELIGHTED to see Gerrard scoring a goal and playing in the centre midfield for the whole match. If Rafa needed any proof that he was capable of playing there he need look no further than last night's match. More on that shortly.

It was a good result for Liverpool and fully deserved. Reina was barely troubled in the match as PSV came looking for a 0-0 and hoping to sneak something on the break. Alonso went off on 20 mins with a dead leg, Zenden the replacement did reasonably well. Fairly solid at the back with the Carra/Agger combo, much better pace to combat the likes of Kone. Finnan had a good game. Riise was reasonable but himself and Gonzalez have yet to work out good combinations and create good chances. And Crouch and Kuyt are a complementary combination. Pennant, like Gonzalez, was also light.

Liverpool guaranteed top in the group now so a job very well done. Lets hope the draw is kindly on us as putting our mercenary hats on, progression means money.

In terms of the Gerrard and CM role debate, there have been lots of stats bandied about that when he plays 'wide' right, that Liverpool's results are better. I'm all for using stats as many of you will know, but also for picking holes in them. I think these stats could lead to a mis-leading conclusion. As the team is not the exact same when he is in the centre, typically they would have had a weaker player on the right, such as Kromkamp (last season) and indeed Benitez played Finnan there as well, its not a like-for-like comparison! It was true that when Liverpool played Gerrard at CM, the results were worse, but this was more to do with lack of having someone as good as him on the right. We know that with the emergence of Sissoko in CM and Alonso, that they make a formidable pairing, and this:

somebody - Sissoko - Alonso - Gerrard

is stronger than both:

somebody - Sissoko - Gerrard - somebody

somebody - Gerrard - Alonso - somebody

So, overall, I think the CM dilemma remains once all 3 players are fit. Rafa has 3 good CM players, but which one is the best to play out right or indeed left. Gerrard clearly is good enough to play right as well, and better than Alonso and Sissoko would be. It is a dilemma for him. If Gerrard wasnt so good the choice for Benitez would be easier.

Another point I'd like to make is couldnt Bellamy play a wide role rather than a striker role. He got a chance to do that last night and its something I've thought about before. He is right footed I understand but can play either side. I think he is better than either Gonzalez or Pennant, so would a Liverpool 1st 11 without Sissoko be:

---

Reina / Dudek

---

Finnan - Carra - Agger - Riise
Garcia - Alonso - Gerrard - Bellamy
---- Kuyt --- Crouch ----

True, Garcia will continue to lose the ball, but with Finnan, Carra, Alonso and Kuyt on his side of the pitch, that could be covered for. Having the pace of Riise, Gerrard, Bellamy on the same side would for me be a good combination, with Crouch as the target man and Kuyt in over the back, far side, for crosses, and Garcia sneaking in too.

thoughts ?

Of course the problem starts once Sissoko becomes fit again. Choices, choices .....

Redspider

Vokes

redspider wrote:

Another point I'd like to make is couldnt Bellamy play a wide role rather than a striker role. He got a chance to do that last night and its something I've thought about before. He is right footed I understand but can play either side.

But I think part of the reason he fell out with Souness (was it?) at Newcastle was because he was asking to play ron the right-wing and refused.

Nalz

dont mean to sound anyway like an asshole, but to the people that give these score updates...

do you sit there by your pc / laptop watching the game then when a goal goes in you log on to boards to just post the score? anyone ever hear of score updates on the web, or teletext even? Just curious. I think its a bit funny thats all!

iregk

Trilla wrote:

dont mean to sound anyway like an asshole, but to the people that give these score updates...

I've always wondered that, would you be arsed? the milan fans site that I log onto there are guys on that giving a text commentary on the game for every chance/goal that happens. How sad is that? I'd prefer my way of watching footie, feet up, sprawled on the couch and a bottle of beer in the hand!

redspider

SofaKing wrote:

But I think part of the reason he fell out with Souness (was it?) at Newcastle was because he was asking to play ron the right-wing and refused.

Possibly, but I think his falling out there had more background than that, as both characters can be stubborn as mules at times.

I think Bellamy would be (should be) happy enough to get his game and get a chance to run at defences, which is what he likes. True, he likes being a front man and running on to through balls, but when Liverpool play at the level that they do they get few chances to do that against reasonably good opposition. Bellamy's pace would be useful down the wing and cutting inside diagonally ala Henry, Robben (when played in Chelsea's old 4-3-3) etc, and he should relish that. He did it well at Newcastle who played Shearer as the sole striker.

The catch is that he will be tasked to do more defensive duties, and he wont relish that. He wont relish a Carra laying into him if he is not doing a good enough job. Up front, he only has to blame other players when moves breakdown, its an easy position to 'hide' in.

I think Benitez is doing a good job of managing him. He's given him his chance to play up-front as a striker, and tried all the combinations with Kuyt and Crouch. Now, perhaps its time to test him on the wing. With Gonzalez and Pennant recovering, its an ideal opportunity to do so v Man City on the weekend.

Lets see ....

redspider

Nalz

iregk wrote:

I've always wondered that, would you be arsed? the milan fans site that I log onto there are guys on that giving a text commentary on the game for every chance/goal that happens. How sad is that? I'd prefer my way of watching footie, feet up, sprawled on the couch and a bottle of beer in the hand!

Jaysus I was expectin a load of remarks & comments from the mac-internet lovers...not for someone to agree with me! yeah I prefer the bottles of beer/couch thing myself. Even bought a mini fridge for the enslaught of games coming up!

_blank_

Well, I can comment on the 'update' thing.

If there is a game on in which I don't have an interest in either team I uaually post on here.

Also, if I'm in work I'll follow games online, and might post score updates here, along with a brief comment.

On the other hand, I help to run an online update thing with the Shelbourne Website, which means I'll sit at games with a laptop and post minute-by-minute updates.

Example, not done by me btw, I was watching that game as a fan.

mike65

Re updates, who logs on!? I'm always on!

If I'm listening on fivelive I'll update but if its on the telly then no, except for a half-time review.

Mike.

kinaldo

Trilla wrote:

dont mean to sound anyway like an asshole, but to the people that give these score updates...

do you sit there by your pc / laptop watching the game then when a goal goes in you log on to boards to just post the score? anyone ever hear of score updates on the web, or teletext even? Just curious. I think its a bit funny thats all!

It's quite easy if you're watching games online. I have both Newcastle and Spurs games streaming at the moment. If there's a game on telly I want to watch then I usually relax on the couch and turn my laptop off.

Mossy Monk

iregk wrote:

I've always wondered that, would you be arsed? the milan fans site that I log onto there are guys on that giving a text commentary on the game for every chance/goal that happens. How sad is that? I'd prefer my way of watching footie, feet up, sprawled on the couch and a bottle of beer in the hand!

oh look at you all high and mighty

eirebhoy

I was looking for this freekick:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6854760765601285066&q=celtic

If United's scouts did a better job they would have saved 2 goals from being conceded. Every freekick he takes in that position is only going one place.

iregk

Mossy Monk wrote:

oh look at you all high and mighty

never said anything about being all high and mighty, just said i wouldn't be arsed!

redspider

eirebhoy wrote:

I was looking for this (Nakamura) freekick:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6854760765601285066&q=celtic
If United's scouts did a better job they would have saved 2 goals from being conceded. Every freekick he takes in that position is only going one place.

Free-kick takers of note usually have the capability to aim for either top corner of the goal, the one at the 'wall' side, which is usually the short side, and the one at the goalie's side. If the keeper is suspected to go to the short side, then the taker can whip it over instead to the far side.

I think to be fair to Man U and van der Sar, even though you know where he's aiming for you still have to set your wall up in a similar way, unless you decide to go for different tactics completely. More about that in a second. But Nakamure struck both frees nearly perfectly, the right pace, getting it up over and down and then right in the corner. Van Der Sar could have saved it perhaps if he would have ran an extra step or two before diving.

An alternative way to defend free's is to drop off and put two players back on the line, one on each post and perhaps split the wall and leave a gap in the middle and the goalie in the middle of the goals. This non-standard position when facing an executioner the likes of Henry, Nakamura or indeed dare I say a David Beckham, can throw the kicker off his concentration and makes the choice of corner much different.

by the way, a great win for Celtic ... and qualification. You must be chuffed.

Redspider

eirebhoy

I think maybe VDS could have stood right in the centre of the goal considering the ball had to travel 30 yards. Then again, maybe the wall would be blocking his view.

In saying that. Only a few weeks ago Naka, for the first time I can remember, didn't aim for the top right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fo6hiNlVWw

I'd say the keeper thought he had Naka sussed as Naka has scored 4 or 5 free's against Killie in the top right. Off topic, but look at how many views that goal against Killie has and it was only scored 3 weeks ago. The Japanese adore him.

redspider

eirebhoy wrote:

I think maybe VDS could have stood right in the centre of the goal considering the ball had to travel 30 yards. Then again, maybe the wall would be blocking his view.

In saying that. Only a few weeks ago Naka, for the first time I can remember, didn't aim for the top right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fo6hiNlVWw

I'd say the keeper thought he had Naka sussed as Naka has scored 4 or 5 free's against Killie in the top right. Off topic, but look at how many views that goal against Killie has and it was only scored 3 weeks ago. The Japanese adore him.

I think van der Sar could have stood more to the right. I compared both Nakamura free-kick goals v Man U on youtube and for both he stood more or less in the exact same place. In terms of his view, Celtic players man the wall precisely to block his view. So the keeper is unsighted when there is a packed wall like this.

I think in situations like that its better if the defenders either put gaps in their part of the wall so the keeper can see through or else break it up, put some players back on the line, etc. Walls are fine and dandy when you face a run-of-the-mill free taker, or a blaster, ala Riise, but when you face a curler who can hit them with pace ala Nakamura, and Henry, the wall is not serving any function, even if the players do jump.

Yes, the goal against Killy was on the long left hand side from a similar position and shows that he can pin them either side. I think if I was a kpper and manager facing the same situation, I would try the two defenders on the line.

Yes, the Japanese are mad into him, which is good news for Celtic in terms of marketing and revenue, shirt sales, merchandise and no doubt a summer pre-season tour of Japan would be a money spinner.

redspider