BMWs

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

it's only loud on tickover with the aircon running (very annoying) but it's very quiet on the move. at motorway speeds in 6th it's very Lexus-like (and light on fuel!)

I don't agree.

Seth Brundle

Ice_Box wrote:

Dont buy a BMW, nobody will let you in when you need to change lanes. And people will accelerate when you try to evertake them.

Thats rubbish. I get the same treatment whether Im in my 5 series or my wifes 106 and its nothing to do with my driving - its just that people don't like letting cars out!

RobAMerc

I have spent the last 6 months looking at changing my car. I have driven everything from Audi tt, A4 cabrio, Volvo C70, Saab 93, Merc clk and bought a bmw.
Admittedly I am a bit embarrased by the "w*nker" image, which is why I didnt consider one till recently.
But having done my usual research, when I did finally surcome to drive it, I realized why it took me so long to find what I was after.

Basically for smaller engine models the chassis is over engineered but the thing rides, handles, is build, and (6 cylinder) sounds as well as if not better than any of the rest of them in any of these areas.

I still do look at guys in 316 and 318's and think, if it wasnt for the image he'd never have bought it, but they truely are worth the extra if you know what it is your getting for your money.

Ps this is number 20ish of a list of varied classic and sports cars so I do feel I have a bit of an idea whats what at this stage.

maidhc wrote:

no more reliable or better built than much cheaper cars such as Ford or Toyota.

I respect this though, but in my eyes the BMW is better engineered than any Toyota (although newer Fords have narrowed the gap with the controll blade suspension etc), and thats what I am paying for, reliability while important is less of a factor for me. (unless it effects resale which unfortuneately has happened other brands)

cancan

People generally buy executive cars more in an attempt to impress their neighbours than themselves.

BMW make some fine cars - it's just a pity that most people buy their crappy ones.

40k for a 1.6 ltr 3 series.
God bless the boom - there's a old saying about fools and their money.

And the 1 series - probably BMW's most pathetic attempt in years....
I think I'd rather have an STD than have to have one of those yokes parked in my driveway.

Now throw a 3ltr into a 3 series, and they begin to make sence - although the money involved is verging on madness. But each to their own i suppose.

dahamsta

The 1 series is a lovely looking car, and I'm pretty sure I've seen reports that the pokier versions widdle all over several of their bigger brothers.

Can't stand the 3 series meself. Rubbish from start to finish, has been since the original M3. Hairdresser's cars.

adam

peasant

dahamsta wrote:

The 1 series is a lovely looking car

Does the term "optician" mean something to you ?

No?

"Specsavers", maybe ?

cancan

The colin montgomerie of cars........

JHMEG

There's something ZZ Top about the 1 alright, but not in a cool way...

dahamsta

peasant wrote:

Does the term "optician" mean something to you ?

Each to his or her own peasant, no need to be rude.

Gatster

I'd have a 130i if someone donated one, but wouldn't buy one even if I was in the market. My 323i Coupe was the best car I'ver ever owned (and the longest I've ever owned a car), and I'm going to get an M3 at some point next year. The first car I ever owned was an Alpina kitted E21 320i and I've never really looked back (I've owned other makes along the way), though I don't like the new 3 series saloon or any base spec 1,3,5,z4,x3...

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote:

I don't agree.

have you ever had one for any length of time, or even driven one?

peasant

dahamsta wrote:

Each to his or her own peasant, no need to be rude.

come on ...seriously now ...

That yoke looks like a gale swept through the drawing room in first year design school, blew all the different drawings of different cars around and somebody just picked up the pieces of paper and randomly created the one series.

Nothing on this car fits together. The bonnet is too long ...but not E-Type-sexy long, just wrong. The grill has no connection or relation with the headlamps ..it has a face like a drunken chinaman. The cabin looks squashed, the rear doors look like an afterthought (which they surely were) and the arse end of the thing looks like they simply ran out of space ...ooops we mustn't make it any langer than x mm, so we better stop here.


Feel free to like it as much as you want, but you can not seriously call that contraption a goodlooking car ...sorry ...

dahamsta

I'm being lectured on taste and style by someone with a camper?

peasant

and not just a camper ...a buck ugly camper on top of it !

dahamsta

A shed on wheels is a shed on wheels in my book!

(My old man had one of the small ones, I still don't get it. American style RV's, yes, because they're a home away from home and you can drive them into the Glastonbury festival; but the dinky ones defy logic.)

maidhc

dahamsta wrote:

A shed on wheels is a shed on wheels in my book!

(My old man had one of the small ones, I still don't get it. American style RV's, yes, because they're a home away from home and you can drive them into the Glastonbury festival; but the dinky ones defy logic.)

I don't own one, but have had the loan of one once or twice. They are very cleverly designed, and sure as hell beat a tent in our climate. Great way to tour. Anyway.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

Maybe not. With the 320D ES you will not have much change left from €51k once you tick the options list to bring the spec up to the standard on the entry IS220D

I guess it depends on what you want in a car. There's a lot to say for a small exec luxurious and (at long last) diesel ueberToyota with a great sound system and lots of toys. Still no automatic available though, big mistake!

But you're right. Plenty (perhaps even most) people that buy expensive cars brand new care a lot for image and status. A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers. He was a bit like people here a few years ago who bought the SC430 when it came out. Another Celtic nouveau riche fad to put it bluntly

maidhc

unkel wrote:

A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers.

That is more a self confidence issue though.

I know one "business man" who wouldn't drive anything other than a Camry for years so as not to appear too much like "the boss" to his employees.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

I guess it depends on what you want in a car. There's a lot to say for a small exec luxurious and (at long last) diesel ueberToyota with a great sound system and lots of toys. Still no automatic available though, big mistake!

But you're right. Plenty (perhaps even most) people that buy expensive cars brand new care a lot for image and status. A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers. He was a bit like people here a few years ago who bought the SC430 when it came out. Another Celtic nouveau riche fad to put it bluntly

Agree with you on the diesel Lexus, the ommission of an auto box from the range in this market could be damaging.

A bit O/T but I think Lexus were in two minds, they are going full steam ahead with hybrid technology yet I think they decided that a hybrid compact executive saloon may not be a viable solution or at least it needs more market research. So as there was already a mid range capacity diesel available for the parent company, they may just done it as a temperary solution. Lexus may not be the sharpest handling cars or best in class to drive but their level of refinement, smooth petrol engines and comfort are still very good, generally alot of thought goes into their cars.

peasant

unkel wrote:

But you're right. Plenty (perhaps even most) people that buy expensive cars brand new care a lot for image and status. A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers. He was a bit like people here a few years ago who bought the SC430 when it came out. Another Celtic nouveau riche fad to put it bluntly

But that's the bit I don't get ...how does the perceived image and glory of the bigger Beemers consistently manange to trickle down to even the most basic, underpowered and underspecced entry model 3 series?

Surely everybody that spent huge bucks on one must notice pretty quickly that it is a million miles away from "the ultimate driving machine" and that even the wifes Micra has better spec?

But yet they don't feel cheated but continue to bask in make-believe glory with a proud grin on their face ...look what I can afford ...

I just don't get it ...

spockety

From reading this thread, it doesn't look to me like BMW owners are the ones with the snobby attitude..

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

have you ever had one for any length of time, or even driven one?

I was a passenger in one on a long journey last week actually. The engine is coarse and unrefined by comparison to it's rivals. The unit is not up to Lexus usual high standards of quitness and smoothness. It's lively certainly, but a big dissapointment nonetheless. The owner dislikes it as a result.

The rear seat accomodation is pretty poor also. Tighter than the outgoing model.

p.s. Any diesel off thottle or at crusing speeds is relatively quiet. Wind and tyre noise lessen the effect of the engine note.

RobAMerc

peasant wrote:

Surely everybody that spent huge bucks on one must notice pretty quickly that it is a million miles away from "the ultimate driving machine" and that even the wifes Micra has better spec?

I just don't get it ...

Is a car measured by its spec ?
If thats what you measure cars by, buy a Ssyanyong Zongerong and go trawl other boards, you clearly have to interest/understanding of what makes good cars good !

bazz26

You could equally argue the point, should a car be measured by it's badge, reputation or perceived image?

maidhc

RobAMerc wrote:

Is a car measured by its spec ?

It is an an important element.

Since no manufacturer over engineer cars like the way MB once did, and since most cars, including Ssangyongs, and pretty competent all rounders it becomes an important element of differentiating one car from another.

If you are buying a mid sized exec saloon I think you are entitled to expect to get more toys than on a Focus LX. A Focus LX and BMW 3 series are after all roughly the same size, are both extremely well engineered, both are enjoyable to drive, and probably are on a par reliability wise. However you can buy a Focus LX for a fraction of the price.

JHMEG

RobAMerc wrote:

Is a car measured by its spec ?
If thats what you measure cars by, buy a Ssyanyong Zongerong and go trawl other boards, you clearly have to interest/understanding of what makes good cars good !

A cassette player and windey windows doesn't necessarily make for a good car either...

peasant

maidhc wrote:

It is an an important element.

Since no manufacturer over engineer cars like the way MB once did, and since most cars, including Ssangyongs, and pretty competent all rounders it becomes an important element of differentiating one car from another.

If you are buying a mid sized exec saloon I think you are entitled to expect to get more toys than on a Focus LX. A Focus LX and BMW 3 series are after all roughly the same size, are both extremely well engineered, both are enjoyable to drive, and probably are on a par reliability wise. However you can buy a Focus LX for a fraction of the price.

Excellent point !

One might also call it value for money.

BMW entry models (especially 1 and 3 series -16) simply don't give that, whereas certain mid-range 5 series models definetly do.

milltown

maidhc wrote:

If you are buying a mid sized exec saloon I think you are entitled to expect to get more toys than on a Focus LX. A Focus LX and BMW 3 series are after all roughly the same size, are both extremely well engineered, both are enjoyable to drive, and probably are on a par reliability wise. However you can buy a Focus LX for a fraction of the price.

You almost made me spray my coffee over my monitor!
Valid points about price aside. My wife has a Focus and the only area it scores over my car is the size of the boot. Beyond that it is, frankly, ridiculous to draw any comparisons. The Ford is as coarse a car as I have driven (and I have had some dogs) and the wall of black and silver airfix grade plastic that is the dash is woeful looking, feeling and sounding.
It may very well last as long as my car or even outlast it but an enjoyable drive it ain't. To such an extent that, although her's is an expensed company car, we choose to notch up the miles on mine for any family trips.

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote:

I was a passenger in one on a long journey last week actually. The engine is coarse and unrefined by comparison to it's rivals. The unit is not up to Lexus usual high standards of quitness and smoothness. It's lively certainly, but a big dissapointment nonetheless. The owner dislikes it as a result.

The rear seat accomodation is pretty poor also. Tighter than the outgoing model.

p.s. Any diesel off thottle or at crusing speeds is relatively quiet. Wind and tyre noise lessen the effect of the engine note.

I quite like it. the only time I hear the engine is during hard driving. It's very quiet on the motorway (base spec tyres and suspension help)

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

I quite like it. the only time I hear the engine is during hard driving. It's very quiet on the motorway (base spec tyres and suspension help)

You are obviously easily pleased