Louis Saha give us a break

tomED

I think the title says it all.....

I really don't know how Fergie still plays him. I seriously think if Van Nistelrooy did what he did tonite, he'd be on the bench on Sunday. But do you think this will happen? Nah me neither.... There's no competition for a place up front anymore....

On another note, ITV commentary when interviewing Neil Lennon told him they had qualified. Am I going completely insane or am I missing something?

From my calculations, they need united to get a result from their game against Benfica to ensure Celtics passage to the next round? yes / no???

Tom

bucks73

No Celtic are thru. They have 9 points but above United on their head to head goal difference over the 2 games so United. So if United lose to Benfica, United come third no matter what happens in Celtic v Copenhagen game. United need a point to qualify. Benfica would then be third.

And on Saha...I am still pissed of Ruud was sold but Saha is playing well. Not his fault he has no competition for his place. Had Uniteds management played the usual formation tonight they would have won.

wheres me jumpa

tomED wrote:

seriously think if Van Nistelrooy did what he did tonite, he'd be on the bench on Sunday.

Tom

RVN did exactly what Saha did tonight for most of last season.

justfortherecor

Harsh on Saha IMO.

Rooney being placed in oblivion on the left wing gave him little quality support.
Penalty miss was poor enough but it was good judgement on Boruc's part.

And United's style in the premiership seems a lot more attacking with him there than RVN this season.

Saha's been one of the class performers so far this season.

thebaz

I believe Saha is totally overated -- great skill , but lacks the killer instinct of a true great !

cournioni

justfortherecor wrote:

Penalty miss was poor enough but it was good judgement on Boruc's part.

Arse! Boruc did what any goalkeeper does when conceeding a penalty to a player a couple of games before hand, he went the same way as Saha went at Old Trafford. Saha should have known better. He should have let Ronaldo take it.

justfortherecor

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Arse! Boruc did what any goalkeeper does when conceeding a penalty to a player a couple of games before hand, he went the same way as Saha went at Old Trafford.

Yes, which is what I said in my statement.

RasTa

Jesus christ what an over-reaction. Saha is the reason we are top of the league and playing so well. What exactly did RVN win for us all the time he was there.

I'm so anoyed im after buying tickets for the Everton and Benfica games*
*live close to Manchester

Chucky the tree

wheres me jumpa wrote:

RVN did exactly what Saha did tonight for most of last season.

RVN did excactly what saha did tonight. He missed a last minute peno against lyon, the muppet.

tvnutz

Saha is an overall better player than Ruud. He had a bad game tonight but has been playing well all season. Ruud could score goals from inside the box,but he couldn't run with the ball and beat players. Saha and Rooney make a good team,but with stupid tactics like playing rooney on the left,it doesn't help.

What I can't understand is how useless players like Carrick,Ferdinand and Ronaldo get their games.

justfortherecor

Carrick for 18m is looking like a cruel joke at the moment.

Made worse by the fact John O'Shea was brought on for him in the 85th min!
Impact subsitution!

cournioni

What has the Everton and Benfica matches got to do with anything RasTa? I'm going to the Benfica game too but that is totally irrelevant.

Saha needs to cop himself on a bit, there was a number of times in the game where he had Neville over lapping him and he chose to carry the ball into Celtic players (and then lose it). You don't even see Ronaldo doing that.

His "chip" was utterly stupid, and totally uncalled for at that stage in the game with United losing. He should have had a bit more cop on when taking that penalty too.

I like Saha as a player at times, but other times I find him almost as irritating as Ronaldo when he is on the ball. Funnily enough himself and Ronaldo are best buddies. Strange that, isn't it?! He should play for his jersey, not for his ego.

wheres me jumpa

Chucky the tree wrote:

RVN did excactly what saha did tonight. He missed a last minute peno against lyon, the muppet.

Yeah just saw it, seemingly thats two misses from the spot.

LundiMardi

I had no doubt in my mind that he was going to go to the left with that peno.

Rooney playing in that position works very well for united, he may not score many there for obvious reasons but he supplies so many through balls as we saw tonight, for the likes of Gigs, Neville, Saha etc...

If united were to get rid of any player i'd have to nominate Ronaldo. Sure the guy has skill, but the majority of time there is no end product which was evident tonight, all style no substance as far as i'm concerned.

I'd love to see someone like Aaron Lennon on the right for united, obviously has to play for them first:D

MrJoeSoap

tvnutz wrote:

Saha is an overall better player than Ruud.

Hell no! Van Nistelrooy is the only reason Madrid got anything against Lyon tonight, and his European goalscoring record is unbelievable.

Chucky the tree

tvnutz wrote:

Saha is an overall better player than Ruud. He had a bad game tonight but has been playing well all season. Ruud could score goals from inside the box,but he couldn't run with the ball and beat players. Saha and Rooney make a good team,but with stupid tactics like playing rooney on the left,it doesn't help.

Whats the point in having a player who cant beat players with speed and then blast it wide? Ask any manager(well apart from fergie) who they would prefer to have saha or RVN? You wouldnt even need to stop and think about it.


Saha will get you goals against the average premiership team, but against the top teams he will struggle. He's the sort of player who needs a few chances to score, he wont get those against the best teams. the chance he had tonight when the ball was slipped through sums him up perfectly i think. Could you picture RVN stopping and waiting for the ref to blow the whistle for offside?

RasTa

PORNAPSTER wrote:

What has the Everton and Benfica matches got to do with anything RasTa? I'm going to the Benfica game too but that is totally irrelevant.
[/b]

Nothing at all, just found it funny that i ordered tickets because United lost when I had no intent on going.

cournioni

RasTa wrote:

Nothing at all, just found it funny that i ordered tickets because United lost when I had no intent on going.

True, it does make it a little interesting. I still would have prefered a win tonight, just so United could concentrate on the Premiership for a little bit. But you'd never know, it could give United a kick up the hole for the Chelsea game this Sunday.

Guy:Incognito

Is every Utd player going to get his own thread. Can everyone not just slag Utd collectivly in the Utd thread? Thats what happens with Liverpool.

tvnutz wrote:

Saha is an overall better player than Ruud. .

Overall nothing. They are both employed to score goals and theres no denying that RVN does that a lot better than Saha.

justfortherecor wrote:

John O'Shea was brought in the 85th min! Impact subsitution!

Proven goalscorer at this level dont you know. Sure didnt he score that one with his arse a while back.:)

cournioni

That name beginning with L that should be banned from all United threads apart from the relevant ones. That is what I think.

Anyway, back to Saha. He really needs to cop himself on or SAF will be getting a striker in, in the winter with intent on giving him a bit of stiff competition for the striker spot. He could find himself on the bench alot more next year if that will be the case.

Guy:Incognito

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Anyway, back to Saha. He really needs to cop himself on or SAF will be getting a striker in, in the winter with intent on giving him a bit of stiff competition for the striker spot. .

Why not do that either way? It can only either push him on to be better or else he'll vanish into the backround, and if that happened you'd be better off shot of him. Any player that doesnt up his game or else mantain an already high standard in the face of competition, isnt worth much to a top team.

Mad Dog

tvnutz wrote:

Saha is an overall better player than Ruud. .

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Hell no! Van Nistelrooy is the only reason Madrid got anything against Lyon tonight, and his European goalscoring record is unbelievable.

I have to agree with this last statement, how anyone can compare these two players is beyond me :eek:

county

didn`t see the game so can`t really comment but its not the end of the world,saha fcuked up, every player does from time to time but i think we will qualifiy.now forget tonights result and time to get geared up for the big one on sunday *which i will be at*:)

aidan24326

I can't believe the sh1te that's being written on this thread. Saha has one bad game and all of a sudden ye want rid of him?? He has been in very good form this season ffs! Give the lad a break. Personally I think he's a very good player. No use talking about RVN, he's gone now and that's it. Ferguson probably was wrong to sell him but unfortunately once you fall out with Ferguson even a little bit your days are numbered. That is something of a weakness in his management (though to be fair he has usually made the right calls, RVN not one of them though)

Green_Martian

Can't believe the stick he is getting after tonights match.....fair enough he was not in the game much, and i would have let Rooney take the Peno...but oh well...........

Would put money on him to score the winner on sunday...or have a hand in it........Hopefully..........:D

The Rooster

United did a good impression of the "L Word" last night. Owning the ball but creating feck all.

Just before the penalty, Gary Neville told Neil Lennon:

"He's lost his bottle, he's going to miss"

You'd think if the captain foresaw that he might have done something about it?

I'm usually a defender of Ronaldo, but him shooting with that long range free kick right at the death, rather than lobbing it into the box, was a disgrace.

cournioni

aidan24326 wrote:

I can't believe the sh1te that's being written on this thread. Saha has one bad game and all of a sudden ye want rid of him?? He has been in very good form this season ffs! Give the lad a break. Personally I think he's a very good player.

I think he's a good player too, but when is he going to grow up and start playing for the team as opposed to his own ego? As I have pointed out, there were a number of occasions where he carried the ball into three or four Celtic defenders (and lost it), when he had Neville over lapping him and completely free. He only passes the ball when he gets himself to trouble and at that stage it is too late to make a decent pass. He passed one back to Neville that nearly had Neville's leg broke!

That attempt at goal was just as bad as anything we have seen from Ronaldo over the past few years. He should have buried it as opposed to the cocky chip.

tomED

Stekelly wrote:

Why not do that either way? It can only either push him on to be better or else he'll vanish into the backround, and if that happened you'd be better off shot of him. Any player that doesnt up his game or else mantain an already high standard in the face of competition, isnt worth much to a top team.

Yeah I agree - with no competition for his place it lets him rest on his laurels.

On RVN vs Louis - there is no competition, Ruud wins hands down. Last season Ruud was still top scorer for united - even though he was in a poor vein of form in the latter stages of the season. It's not hard to be top scorer when you are a striker and playing with a team like United at the moment.

We need a decent striker, one that can great goals from nothing or at least put half chances away!! Louis Saha doesn't have the clinical touch that Ruud does.

Bucks! Thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn't know that's how it would be decided. United have a better goal difference, so I automatically assumed we should be on top. But looking at the UEFA site, Celtic are on top at the minute, which makes sense! Thanks a million!!

kippy

Right,
Ruud is gone and isnt coming back-get over it and move on-it has been discussed to death. His relationship with Fergie had gone so bad that he was moved on-from what we have seen from his antics with Holland he obviously went throught a phase where his attitude was a real problem and Fergie got rid of him. He could have been affecting team morale, who knows. The new challange at Madrid has obviously seen a change in attitude from him and for that I am happy as is is a quality player. United have played better as a team since he went-their away form in all cup competitions thus far is lamentable however.

Its all good in hindsight saying that Saha shouldnt have taken the penalty-but he has done well thus far wil penalties-his confidence could have been low when he took it but in fairness it wasnt too bad a penalty. All credit to the keeper for stopping it-he did his job well.

United overall last night were very indecisive. An okay first half but they didnt create much, best chance of the first half went to Celtic. Ronaldo, yet again, too fancy, not enough of the basic stuff done well. He is a frustrating player to watch and I had hoped that the coaching staff would have coached him into being a more intelligent footballer. I still have hope for him and we cant forget his start of season form has been excellent but even then he could do better.
Saha is a quality player. Quality players have off days. Thats football. Its also why we lost to Southend United and Copenhagen. The alarming amount of off days in cup away games is worrying.
I feel Celtic were written off too easily. They have a fantastic home record against some of the best teams in Europe and have, in my opinion a decent team. Strachan made the two changes at half time that made the difference in my opinion. He didnt need "alleged" world class players on the bench to do it either.
United have a number of attacking players that could play in a number of different positions well-so the players on the pitch should have been able to get the result. Last night they just werent good enough. Strachan, last night, made the better decisions and had that small rub of the green to get the result that Celtic needed.
The Chelsea match in my opinion is far far more important than the Celtic match was. Lets hope they can get something out of it.
Kippy

tomED

kippy wrote:

but in fairness it wasnt too bad a penalty. All credit to the keeper for stopping it-he did his job well.

Ah Cmon, it was a terrible penalty. Boruc is a great keeper, but Saha gifted it to him.

kippy wrote:

Saha is a quality player. Quality players have off days.

I don't agree. I think he is one of the worst strikers we've had since Brian McClair in his latter days.

Last night they just werent good enough.

In fairness United played very well, it was the final third that was letting us down.

dubmick

we have now lost 1-0 in three out of the last four Wednesdays!

kippy

I don't agree. I think he is one of the worst strikers we've had since Brian McClair in his latter days.

Have you been watching him in the majority of games this season?
His career with united thus far has seen 31 goals in 80 games.
He has been returning for some form of injury in many of those games.

Ah Cmon, it was a terrible penalty. Boruc is a great keeper, but Saha gifted it to him.

It was a terrible penalty simply for the fact it was missed. It was well taken. Any player can miss a penalty. Doesnt make him crap.
The final third also includes giggs, ronaldo and rooney.
Giggs gets off without any harassment in this thread but was equally as culpable in the first half.

Kippy

Nalz

tomED wrote:

I don't agree. I think he is one of the worst strikers we've had since Brian McClair in his latter days.

Im sorry but thats a stupid statement. Brian McClair was a very good player, and its unfair to compare him in his "latter years" as you put it. I can think of far worse strikers we placed up front then Brian McClair in the last 20 years.

Saha is terrible at placing the ball which he seems to be at lately. When he scored his first 10 goals in his first season they were either blasted into the net or tap ins...He seems to miss alot of one-on-ones IMO.He's not a bad striker, infact he's a good one. But there is at least 7 better strikers than him in the premiership and thats not good enough to be Manchester Uniteds leading man.

Oh and it was a terrible penalty. No conviction in the shot, and hip height. Plus keeper came off his line.

eirebhoy

Trilla wrote:

Oh and it was a terrible penalty. No conviction in the shot, and hip height. Plus keeper came off his line.

He came off the line after the ball was kicked, nothing wrong with that.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7643/sahapenodu3.jpg

haha, I just noticed Celtic players in the box.

Carcharodon

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Arse! Boruc did what any goalkeeper does when conceeding a penalty to a player a couple of games before hand, he went the same way as Saha went at Old Trafford. Saha should have known better. He should have let Ronaldo take it.

Ah come on, and if Ronaldo missed there would of probably been a new thread about that. Its very easy to pass judgement from our high horses after the game, was not easy to take penalty with thousands of screaming Celtic fans in front of you, bad miss - maybe, but give the guy a break, he has been pretty consistent with penalties up to that one.
And for people slaging him off, every time i see him play he works extremely hard and never gives up, its not his fault that his soccer ability is not as high as people here want.

TheMonster

Were the UTD fans behind Borucs goal or was it Celtic fans? He went to go there after the goals but was prevented by the Police?

CountryWise

SAHA has been very consistent for us all season and its not really fair to slate him after one poor performance......he has done it in the premiership so far this season!

As for RVN, most United fans and myself includued thought he was great scored a great amount of goals etc etc and was sorry to see him go but the fact is and i think this is something that us united fans overlook( because we dont like to admit it) Ruud asked to leave on 3 seperate occasions, now i know relations with Ferguson were strained near the end of his time their but the other 2 times were when he was a regular in the team,simple as!
anyway his heart wasnt in it anymore.....that was evident last season there was a reason he was on the bench,once he got some criticism he wanted a move......best of luck to him, it will be interesting to see what happens at R Madrid when he hits a goal drought, those fans and manager are less forgiving than United and somebody else will be drafted in instead of him

thebaz

Why does Rooney not take the pens ?
Particularly after Saha's earlier miss , i like Neville fealt he would miss !

CountryWise

I think everyone felt he would miss, he has missed 2 now so i think its fair for Rooney to take them now

county

dubmick wrote:

we have now lost 1-0 in three out of the last four Wednesdays!

we should refuse to play on wednesdays from now on,lets petition the FA:rolleyes:

Nalz

CountryWise wrote:

I think everyone felt he would miss, he has missed 2 now so i think its fair for Rooney to take them now

he's missed twice for United before hasnt he?


Give them to Ronaldo or Giggs I say, let them have a pop.

LostinBlanch

dubmick wrote:

we have now lost 1-0 in three out of the last four Wednesdays!

WHat has that got to do with the match last night (Tuesday)?

LostinBlanch

dubmick wrote:

we have now lost 1-0 in three out of the last four Wednesdays!

What has that got to do with the match last night (Tuesday)?

RasTa

Some really fickle united fans in here, shame. You'll see Saha will score the winner against Chelsea.

dubmick

I am a day ahead of myself this week!

tomED

RasTa wrote:

Some really fickle united fans in here, shame. You'll see Saha will score the winner against Chelsea.

Well hopefully we'll win (I'm heading over for it!)

Of course he'll score for us. It's not hard for a striker to score with United the way they are playing at the minute. You could put my granny up front for United and she'd be scoring as many

aidan24326

CountryWise wrote:

As for RVN, most United fans and myself includued thought he was great scored a great amount of goals etc etc and was sorry to see him go but the fact is and i think this is something that us united fans overlook( because we dont like to admit it) Ruud asked to leave on 3 seperate occasions, now i know relations with Ferguson were strained near the end of his time their but the other 2 times were when he was a regular in the team,simple as!
anyway his heart wasnt in it anymore.....that was evident last season there was a reason he was on the bench,once he got some criticism he wanted a move......best of luck to him, it will be interesting to see what happens at R Madrid when he hits a goal drought, those fans and manager are less forgiving than United and somebody else will be drafted in instead of him

True. He said only recently that he had wanted out of Old Trafford for a while, that he was no longer happy there. He said things are 'way better' at Real Madrid, or something to that effect, which was obviously a bit of a dig at United and probably Ferguson even moreso. One thing about Ferguson though, he has always been clear about this much. Hissy fits, stroppiness and general prima-donna behaviour will not be tolerated. So RVN only made life difficult for himself with his drama-queen attitude last season.

But Saha's good form this season has been one of the reasons why Utd haven't missed RVN too much (not yet anyway). So I'm surprised he's getting stick now. The lad deserves his chance and is doing ok so far from what I can see. There's always OGS to come off the bench and bag an odd goal too, legend that he is

On the subject of penalties, I am surprised that Ronaldo doesn't take them. The few times I've seen him take penalties they've been very good. He was coolness personified in the shootout against England. Never a doubt that he was going to score. His type of cocky confidence is actually a help in the pressure situation of taking a penalty.

county

tomED wrote:

Well hopefully we'll win (I'm heading over for it!)

Of course he'll score for us. It's not hard for a striker to score with United the way they are playing at the minute. You could put my granny up front for United and she'd be scoring as many

don`t tempt fate:rolleyes:

tomED

county wrote:

don`t tempt fate:rolleyes:

Oh jesus sorry, I didn't mean that he'd score against Chelsea... hell no I don't want to tempt fate on that at all. I meant he'd score in a differnet context. Sorry for confusion!!!

It's gonna be a tough game for United on Sunday! It's only really our third test this season (Arsenal & Celtic were the other two!)

aidan24326

tomED wrote:

Of course he'll score for us. It's not hard for a striker to score with United the way they are playing at the minute. You could put my granny up front for United and she'd be scoring as many

It's not fair to say that, even if you are only joking. Some strikers won't score no matter how many chances you give them. Look at Rooney when he was on a bad run, couldn't find the goalposts. Saha is doing ok. Obviously the big tests are yet to come, like can he grab crucial goals when the team might not be playing so well. Time will tell on that one. For now his mid-term report would read: doing well, keep it up.

tomED

aidan24326 wrote:

It's not fair to say that, even if you are only joking. Some strikers won't score no matter how many chances you give them. Look at Rooney when he was on a bad run, couldn't find the goalposts. Saha is doing ok. Obviously the big tests are yet to come, like can he grab crucial goals when the team might not be playing so well. Time will tell on that one. For now his mid-term report would read: doing well, keep it up.

Ah cmon you can't compare the two. Saha is playing as an out and out striker for United, Rooney hasn't been - so different situation.

I agree though, time will tell for sure and that is exactly where my concern is.
I don't think he has what it takes to grab crucial goals or turn a game around when its needed.

But worse still - Saha has always been quite injury prone, I surprised he's been playing for so long without an injury to be honest. So what happens when he does get injured? Who will we play in his position then? Anyway, I guess thats another days work!!!