Q re: bus only green light

breadmonkey

There is only one place I know of where this happens but I'm sure there are others. Some of you probably know this place but I will do my best to describe it for those who don't.

If you are driving on the N11 coming out of town, there is a set of traffic lights after the Stillorgan Park hotel. Several buses travel down this stretch in the bus lane but must make their way across two lanes to the inside lane in order to turn right into Stillorgan shopping centre. To facilitate this, there is a green light that says 'BUS' that goes for about 5-10 seconds before all cars get a green light so that the bus can get a headstart and move easily into the inside lane.

My question is this: When the bus lane is open to all traffic (after 7pm Mon-Sat and all day Sunday), am I allowed to proceed on this 'BUS' green light from any lane? I would have thought so since the sequencing is such that the way should be clear for the bus so it isn't dangerous. Seems like a bit of a grey area though.

Anan1

I've wondered that myself. My guess would be no, on the grounds that being allowed to use the bus lane does not make you a bus.

jimmycrackcorm

I wonder if this light is legal for busses only. Was there an ammendment to a traffic act to allow for these as otherwise a green light is a green light. I don't know the juction but I'd imagine that to be correct the light would have to be dedicated to the bus lane and hence the bus indication is only a guide tp prevent confusion.

For example on the Liffey Valley eastboound N4 underpass, there is a dedicated bus lane and associated traffic lights. These go green as soon as a bus approaches but this is a dedicated lane light.

madpanfan

How many seats in your vehicle?
If you have 'a lot' of seats you will be probably be ok, but otherwise you are breaking your Red light.
Sorry.
"Failure to obey traffic lights" = 2 points.

breadmonkey

It is definitely safe for cars in all lanes to proceed since theis filter light (if you could call it that) is in place so the bus can swing acroos the entire road in front of the cars waiting at the lights.

Anan1

breadmonkey wrote:

It is definitely safe for cars in all lanes to proceed since theis filter light (if you could call it that) is in place so the bus can swing acroos the entire road in front of the cars waiting at the lights.

Sure, but is it legal?

mikedragon32

I use this junction occasionally myself and would see no reason for cars in the bus lane not to avail of the green light, as I would imagine any bus driver behind you in that lane would be peed off if you didn't go.

Anan1

mikedragon32 wrote:

I use this junction occasionally myself and would see no reason for cars in the bus lane not to avail of the green light, as I would imagine any bus driver behind you in that lane would be peed off if you didn't go.

Of course, but that's not what the OP is asking.

breadmonkey

Well, this light is pretty much obsolete any time the bus lane is open to all traffic (i.e. non-peak hours) since the bus can easily make it's way into the inside lane. A taxi driver once told me you could do it, lol:)

Our man in Havana

I can imagine a coversation with a Garda along the lines of "Are you a BUS?" and "What part of BUS don't you understand?"

breadmonkey

Snore. The point is that there is no need for this light out of hours of operation, the lane is open to all traffic and it is safe to proceed. So what's the problem?

crosstownk

I can't help wondering if threads like this should be in Commuting/Transport.

But anyway, I don't know the exact lights you mention, but a similar set up exixts on Templeogue Road near Bushy Park heading towards Terenure Village. But when its "BUS" green it shows a red light to the regular car traffic - which makes things quite clear.

$Leon$

Are you sure that isn't a 24/7 bus lane there? It is at some other points in the N11. If it was 24/7 then there is no need to answer your question.

Esel

breadmonkey wrote:

There is only one place I know of where this happens but I'm sure there are others. Some of you probably know this place but I will do my best to describe it for those who don't.

If you are driving on the N11 coming out of town, there is a set of traffic lights after the Stillorgan Park hotel. Several buses travel down this stretch in the bus lane but must make their way across two lanes to the inside lane in order to turn right into Stillorgan shopping centre. To facilitate this, there is a green light that says 'BUS' that goes for about 5-10 seconds before all cars get a green light so that the bus can get a headstart and move easily into the inside lane.

My question is this: When the bus lane is open to all traffic (after 7pm Mon-Sat and all day Sunday), am I allowed to proceed on this 'BUS' green light from any lane? I would have thought so since the sequencing is such that the way should be clear for the bus so it isn't dangerous. Seems like a bit of a grey area though.

That's the outside lane.

If the light said 'Bus lane' and you were in that lane, you might get away with it, bit in any other lane - no.

Nevyn

Bond-007 wrote:

I can imagine a coversation with a Garda along the lines of "Are you a BUS?" and "What part of BUS don't you understand?"

The fun part of that argument is when the driver says " yes, this is a mini bus, please show where it states dublin bus only in the bye laws and rules of the road "

mikedragon32

$Leon$ wrote:

Are you sure that isn't a 24/7 bus lane there? It is at some other points in the N11. If it was 24/7 then there is no need to answer your question.

The portion of road the OP refers to is a 7am to 7pm bus lane, as the entire stretch from Foxrock Church to town is. The 24 bus lane is only from Foxrock church out to Loughlinstown.

Hotblack Desiato

crosstownk wrote:

I can't help wondering if threads like this should be in Commuting/Transport.

I'm thinking there should be a "Motoring Law" or similar forum for those of us who read Motors but aren't interested in the endless 'Are [insert marque here] crap' and 'where can I get a starter motor for a [whatever]' threads
Or else create a "Motors/Cars" forum like the "Motors/Motorbikes" forum, and leave "Motors" to the motoring law / licensing / etc. threads

Our man in Havana

Yes great idea, but you would have to keep the moral police and penalty point apologists out. No more "You should bend over and take the points" bull.

el tel

crosstownk wrote:

I can't help wondering if threads like this should be in Commuting/Transport.

But anyway, I don't know the exact lights you mention, but a similar set up exixts on Templeogue Road near Bushy Park heading towards Terenure Village. But when its "BUS" green it shows a red light to the regular car traffic - which makes things quite clear.

There's one of these on Leeson Street, at the junction with Burlington Road. It allows cars to turn left into Burlington Road and buses to continue down Leeson Street while the remaining traffic is stopped.

There are loads of green lights for Buses only around Dorset Street/North Fredrick Street/O'Connell Street. I drive throught them every night...In my car. I'm from the North and I'm lost you see...:D

Wishbone Ash

el tel wrote:

There are loads of green lights for Buses only around Dorset Street/North Fredrick Street/O'Connell Street.

These are 'No Left/Right Turn' junctions (except for buses, taxis, motorcycles, bicycles etc.) which are different from the situation in the OPs query.

John R

Thaedydal wrote:

The fun part of that argument is when the driver says " yes, this is a mini bus, please show where it states dublin bus only in the bye laws and rules of the road "

Quoth the rules of the road:

http://www.lireland.com/theory/bus.htm

"BUS LANES
Bus lanes are sections of roadway reserved for buses providing a scheduled service (e.g. Bus Atha Cliath and Bus Eireann buses).
There are two types of bus lane:
With flow bus lanes

WITH-FLOW BUS LANES (which may also be used by taxis and cyclists); run in the same direction as the traffic using the same carriageway. These bus lanes are normally reserved during peak traffic periods and such other periods as are indicated on information signs provided at the entrance to the lanes. These lanes are signposted as illustrated.
Contra flow bus lanes

CONTRA-FLOW BUS LANES; run in the opposite direction to traffic using the same carriageway. They are generally Bus Lane provided in one-way streets. These lanes are reserved on a full-time basis for Bus Eireann or Bus Atha Cliath buses and no other traffic may use them. They will be signposted as illustrated.

BUS-ONLY STREETS
"Bus only streets" are streets which are Contra-flow bus lane reserved for the use of buses only. They may be entered by other traffic for the purpose of access only."


In the new draft rules that has been changed to include all Buses which I can only assume means anything that is classed as D or D1 so anything with more than 8 passenger seats and a driver holding an appropriate licence would be legal.

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote:

In the new draft rules that has been changed to include all Buses which I can only assume means anything that is classed as D or D1 so anything with more than 8 passenger seats and a driver holding an appropriate licence would be legal.

The ROTR is really only a guide and it even states that it is not an 'interpretation of the law'. The Statutory Instruments will give more definitive regulations.

el tel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

These are 'No Left/Right Turn' junctions (except for buses, taxis, motorcycles, bicycles etc.) which are different from the situation in the OPs query.

Not exclusively - they also include 'No Entry' (except for buses, taxis, motorcycles, bicycles etc.) streets. And I do know they are different from the OP's query; I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

NeMiSiS

"I can't help wondering if threads like this should be in Commuting/Transport.

But anyway, I don't know the exact lights you mention, but a similar set up exixts on Templeogue Road near Bushy Park heading towards Terenure Village. But when its "BUS" green it shows a red light to the regular car traffic - which makes things quite clear."

These lights are totally idotic, an have no beneift whatsoever to the flow of traffic 99% of the time.

Dades

Always wondered about that set of lights on the N11 myself.

TBH if you're first in line in the bus lane the 5 secs doesn't matter too much. You can still take off first if you're 'keen'. I'd imagine its a grey area in the law but I wouldn't bet on winning an argument with a traffic cop.

breadmonkey

The Atheist wrote:

I wouldn't bet on winning an argument with a traffic cop.

Worse chance than against a bouncer!

blorg

What if you are another "legal" bus lane user during times the lane is actually in operation, e.g. a taxi or cyclist. I have never seen a taxi fail to "go" on these bus lights. As was mentioned, thinking of the purpose behind such lights, you would imagine that there would be no sense in impeding a bus behind you.

John R wrote:

BUS LANES
Bus lanes are sections of roadway reserved for buses providing a scheduled service (e.g. Bus Atha Cliath and Bus Eireann buses).

Interesting. So all those empty minibuses on the N11 indeed _shouldn't_ be in the bus lane.