Bit of a dilema

bazz26

Hi folks, have bit of a dilema here.

A friend of my father's works as a mechanic in a main dealership and has spotted a nice mint 2003 Mazda 6 1.8 litre Sport Touring 4dr saloon with only 1 owner and 43k miles on the clock. I had a test drive in the car and it is spotless inside and out. It does have a few scufs on the bumpers but then again the car is almost 4 years old. It is silver in colour and very well speced with climate control, 16" alloy wheels, cruise control, electric tilt/slide sunroof, rear OEM boot spoiler and rear PDS.

Here is the dilema though, my own car is a Toyota Avensis 1.8 Luna with roughly the same spec minus the sunroof and spoiler and is the same year (2003) but I have clocked up just over 100k trouble free miles on it. The car is spotless, drives perfectly, serviced every 12k with a full Toyota service history and still has 5 months road tax left on it.

Anyway the dealer knows I'm a friend of mechanic and was looking for €1,900 with my car as a trade-in. I was hoping to get it for around €1,000 (optimystic?) but haggled him down to €1,600. My final offer will be €1,300, he gave me the usual story of having to speak to the boss and will ring me back on Monday.

As I am moving house soon and moving out to the stix I will be doing more mileage to and from work. Most of my money is tied up in the new house so my question to you folks is would I be better off keeping the car I have or trade it for the lower mileage Mazda even though it is the same age?

Any helpful advice is much appreciated.

maidhc

I'd keep the Toyota. Better the devil you know and all that.

unkel

You're doing ~30k miles per annum already and that's going to increase. Surely you'd be better of with a diesel?

Apart from that, the trade in looks like a good deal

colm_mcm

Avensis Luna is worth more than Mazda6 though.

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

I'd keep the Toyota. Better the devil you know and all that.

A very good point but with the mileage building up now and with all fairness to Toyota's reliability, etc major components still ware out from high use at some stage. Things like clutch, suspension, gearbox may not last as long as the engine which is well capable of over 200k miles.

unkel wrote:

You're doing ~30k miles per annum already and that's going to increase. Surely you'd be better of with a diesel?

Apart from that, the trade in looks like a good deal

Yes Unkel I should have a diesel really but the company I work for compensate me in other ways so that I don't get caught for BIK. And I will not being doing +30k miles anymore as I will not be on the road on their behalf anymore. More like 15 - 20k miles a year so come to think of it, it may make more sense to keep what I have.

It still probably makes more sense to go diesel but the intitial cost is just out of my reach with the new house where as fuel costs on the petrol are softened by work benefits.

colm_mcm wrote:

Avensis Luna is worth more than Mazda6 though.

But my Avensis has 119k miles on it now. The Mazda 6 is only broken in with 43k miles. Most dealers will not want to know about the Avensis with that mileage unless it is diesel. And a private sale will probably be even harder as most buyers are very reluctant to buy cars with 100k on the clock unless they are dirt cheap.

So my choice is either keep my car at the moment and run it into the ground or buy the Mazda. Either would probably involve keeping the car for at least 3 - 4 years anyway. I am begining to sway towards keeping what I have though. Will give it more thought over the weekend.

This is the car btw:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=527359

peasant

Assuming that the Mazda and Toyota are comparable in reliability and resale values, getting the Mazda would mean that you buy yourself 57.000 miles for 1300 Euro. At 20k miles per annum that's 3 years before your "new" Mazda reaches the sale barrier of 100 k

Drive it for two years, and at 80 k miles it should still represent some value.

Your Toyota with then 160 k miles won't.

Sounds like a sensible deal to me.

colm_mcm

didn't spot the mileage on the Avensis. I'd say do it. Sorry for not fully reading the post!

BrianD3

Are either teh Mazda or Toyota NCT'd. Remember that you can do your first NCT 6 months before the due date so if the cars were registered in May 03 or before they can do the NCT about now. If the NCT on the Toyota were to show that it needed something expensive like a new catalytic converter that might sway you towards the Mazda....

bazz26

BrianD3 wrote:

Are either teh Mazda or Toyota NCT'd. Remember that you can do your first NCT 6 months before the due date so if the cars were registered in May 03 or before they can do the NCT about now. If the NCT on the Toyota were to show that it needed something expensive like a new catalytic converter that might sway you towards the Mazda....

Very good point Brian, never even considered that the cat may need replacing and they are an expensive job. My Avensis is not due it's first NCT until next April. The Mazda afaik was registered in June 2003.

More food for thought.

peasant wrote:

Assuming that the Mazda and Toyota are comparable in reliability and resale values, getting the Mazda would mean that you buy yourself 57.000 miles for 1300 Euro. At 20k miles per annum that's 3 years before your "new" Mazda reaches the sale barrier of 100 k

Drive it for two years, and at 80 k miles it should still represent some value.

Your Toyota with then 160 k miles won't.

Sounds like a sensible deal to me.

Thats what I am thinking along the lines of too. At the end of the day I would plan on keeping either car for another 3 - 4 years. I think resale value of both cars is going to be pretty low at that stage but I can get 3 to 4 years of driving a less mileage car for €1,300. I would imagine maintenance on my higher mileage Avensis would also become more regular on worn parts.

peasant

Your new house will find plenty opportunity to zap you with unplanned "surprise expenditure"

Get the car that holds the least surprises, buy the Mazda.

I would

maidhc

peasant wrote:

Get the car that holds the least surprises, buy the Mazda.

That is assuming the Mazda has been cared for as well as the Toyota and doesn't suffer from any latent defects no one knows about. While the Toyota does have 55k more miles up you do know its history. Can you be sure the Mazda's miles are genuine?

Getting 200k from a car without investing any massive money is not particularly unusual, espcially not with a car owned by one careful owner from new.

Having said that, I see the attraction in getting a car with low milage for a fairly reasonable sum.

bazz26

peasant wrote:

Your new house will find plenty opportunity to zap you with unplanned "surprise expenditure"

Tell me about it, already had lots of hassel with the builder, etc.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I'm going to think about it over the weekend (will not be making any hasty decisions over a few pints tonight though )

BrianD3

maidhc wrote:

That is assuming the Mazda has been cared for as well as the Toyota and doesn't suffer from any latent defects no one knows about. While the Toyota does have 55k more miles up you do know its history. Can you be sure the Mazda's miles are genuine?

True, and it sounds like Bazz is a sympathetic driver as he has gotten over 100K from his original front brake pads. This means that the discs and the rest of the braking system will also have very little wear considering the miles covered. With sympathetic driving it's likely that the clutch has little wear for the mileage and a gearbox should last the life of the car if well treated. I'd imagine that work wil be needed on suspension in the next 50k though and maybe wheel bearings and water pump too. Then there's possible "unexpected" failures like catalytic converters. But unexpected failures could happen on the Mazda too.

I am going through a relatively similar thought process to Bazz in terms of thinking about how long my car should last and how much I'll need to spend on it. I won't be trading in now though as the car (a 03 petrol Renault with 130k) is already worth nothing as a trade in.

bazz26

The Mazda comes highly recommended by a mechanic friend of my father's who works at the dealership. So while not 100% waterproof it is very unlikely he would recommend a lemon to us. That and the fact the garage are giving a 12 month used car warranty with the Mazda.

But it is a valid point though and one that will be noted.

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

Having said that, I see the attraction in getting a car with low milage for a fairly reasonable sum.

You hit the nail on the head there. But the risk is the same whenever you buy any used car. You can be at the mercy of the last owner and how they looked after the car.

Still kind of in a split mind on the idea though.

gyppo

Hi Bazz,

I'd be looking at this deal the same way as Peasant does, ie. you are buying 57k miles for 1300E.
I've driven the Mazda 6, and its a fine car. I've owned 2 earlier 626's which were faultless, the only items needed from the main dealers were a set of plug leads, and some drop link arms.
However, the sting in the tail used to be when you needed main dealer parts - these were crazily expensive.
However, I'm not sure if this is still the case - I heard that Mazda had revised their pricing policy on spare parts. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

I'd still say you are getting a good deal, and if you do decide to go for it, the best of luck with it.

damo605

There is 76k difference in the miles that the two cars have travelled - Mazda's reliability and longetiviety is pretty much up there with Toyota and no matter what way you look at it, 76k miles is a very big chunk of a car's useable life! I know the Avensis is an easy seller but with the mileage you have up its value is only gonna drop further and heavier with each extra mile you put on it - I'd say if you like the Mazda and can confirm its mileage and condition you would be mad not to go for it.
The Mazda's a 03 though (Not exactly an aul banger) so if there's scuffs on the bumpers that they didn't bother getting repaired make sure they weren't careless owners and neglect other issues such as servicing intervals, etc.

unkel

Pretty sound advice all round, especially what peasant said. If you don't trade in the Avensis, in two years time only a taxi man would be interested in it*. And he'll only give you a couple of grand. So you will be stuck with it.

Trade in for the Mazda and at least you have the realistic option to sell it later. Tell the dealer to take off that silly spoiler though

I think it's a very good deal to trade it in, unless you are happy to stick with the Avensis and drive it into the ground

* And Santa Claus in Lucan who would sell it on with 150,000 less miles on it

old boy

get them to have a full nct on it, get a panel beater to look at it, mechanics only know about engines, panel beaters have to know about everything

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Pretty sound advice all round, especially what peasant said. If you don't trade in the Avensis, in two years time only a taxi man would be interested in it*. And he'll only give you a couple of grand. So you will be stuck with it.

Trade in for the Mazda and at least you have the realistic option to sell it later. Tell the dealer to take off that silly spoiler though

I think it's a very good deal to trade it in, unless you are happy to stick with the Avensis and drive it into the ground

* And Santa Claus in Lucan who would sell it on with 150,000 less miles on it

The spoiler was a factory fit optional extra and I actually like it (depends on your preference I suppose). I don't want any one butchering the boot because it is never filled properly and before long it will leak. Alot of 6 Sport Touring models have it and the car looks well with it imo. It isn't really a "in your face max power" type spoiler and it is very subtle and doesn't intrude on rear visability.

bazz26

Thats guys for all the sound advice.

I drove the car yesterday and liked it, incidently the car would not start when I got into it. The dealer had to jump it from one of those protable jump starters. Had me a bit concerned but once he connected the jump starter it started straight away. Gave me some bull story about the radio being left on, more like the car has not been moved for a few weeks and the battery was weak.

There is nice feed back from the steering, the car is solid on the road and I through it around one or two corners really well to make there were no surprises and to get the feel of it. Of course hard really to judge with traction control and I wasn't going to push it too hard. The 1.8 litre engine is not as responsive as the Avensis in the lower gears and needs a bit more reving but in 4th and 5th gear it moves just as good as the Avensis. Not sure what kind of mpg can be achieved but I have read that it is slightly more thirsty than my Avensise. Anyone on here got some real world figures? I am averaging about 33mpg mixed in the Avensis.

Anyway as the saying goes "watch this space". I am going to wait for the dealer to ring me back (most of them don't in my experience). But I am sticking to my guns on this one and will not budge on €1300.

If the deal falls through then so be it, I'm under no pressure as I may still hold what I have and also there is another similar model for sale not too far away to take alook at too:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=470037

ninty9er

I can appreciate that your car has 67k on the 6 but in 3 years time You'd likely still get as much for an Avensis with 190k as a 6 with 110k, since Mazdas depreciate like lead baloons. (e.g. 99 Yaris Sol €5k not a chance of a discount. 01 Mazda 121 Glx €4.5 k get it for €4.2k)

I've dealt with Hinchy's but didn't buy because of the car's spec. Otherwise I found the service great...but then again my dad knows the sales director and he let us off with 3 or 4 cars to have a test drive.

Especially with the spec of the Avensis being so rare I doubt you'd have trouble getting rid of it, where as the Mazda 6 Touring isn't exactly a rare car in any part of the country. I reckon you'd have more fun with the Mazda, but I prefer the other one in Gunmetal Grey;)

bazz26

ninty9er wrote:

I can appreciate that your car has 67k on the 6 but in 3 years time You'd likely still get as much for an Avensis with 190k as a 6 with 110k, since Mazdas depreciate like lead baloons. (e.g. 99 Yaris Sol €5k not a chance of a discount. 01 Mazda 121 Glx €4.5 k get it for €4.2k)

I've dealt with Hinchy's but didn't buy because of the car's spec. Otherwise I found the service great...but then again my dad knows the sales director and he let us off with 3 or 4 cars to have a test drive.

Especially with the spec of the Avensis being so rare I doubt you'd have trouble getting rid of it, where as the Mazda 6 Touring isn't exactly a rare car in any part of the country. I reckon you'd have more fun with the Mazda, but I prefer the other one in Gunmetal Grey;)

The Mazda 121 was just a clone of the Ford Fiesta at the time but was never loved in Ireland when new not to mind second hand. Agree though that generally Mazdas depreciate alot faster than Toyotas. My Avensis is pretty common in 1.8 Luna but obviously not as popular as the 1.6 litre version. Anyway I'm not really concerned with resale value as by the time I part with either car they will be about 7 or 8 years old so will not be worth much anyway. But the one will less mileage will be easier to shift.

Actually the 6 that I am looking at in Hinchy's is the Sport Touring model not the Touring as advertised but don't let them know. The Sport Touring has velour seats, electric sunroof and unique 16" alloy wheels.

I had a look at the grey one this afternoon and the thing that bothers me is that it is has a rusty tow bar on it, there are also alot of scrapes on the back bumper from whatever it was pulling and there was a nasty deep scrape about 3" long on the bonnet. I could not live with that scrape everyday and getting it repaired would mean having the bonnet resprayed which would be a non starter. I think I will give that one a miss as my Avensis is in better condition than that despite the high mileage.

Oilrig

I'd stick with the Avensis, the Mazda looks inviting but:

Why is he willing to take a trade in that has "high" mileage for so little money?, sounds like he's trying to shift it in a hurry.

The Mazda will depreciate like a brick.

If the Mazda gives you grief it will be expensive.

You'll never have any problem offloading the Toyota, not so with a leggy Mazda.

Just my opinion...

unkel

Oilrig wrote:

Why is he willing to take a trade in that has "high" mileage for so little money?

That crossed my mind too. Seemed too good a deal. But then, maybe he has a keen buyer lined up for the Avensis

bazz26

The guy rang me back yesterday evening and after "talking to his boss":rolleyes: I managed to get him down to €1,300 with my car. I am going to have another drive of the car this Saturday before making a final decision.
Also realised that unlike my own car with has a timing chain the Mazda has a timing belt. There is 43k on the clock so it is due a change. I think he may be taking this into account in the price in that I will have to get it done myself, but I will put it to him anyway.

Regarding Mazda not being as good as Toyota, well a neighbour of mine had a 6 turbo diesel and he put 130k miles on the clock without any bother. Plus most of the reviews, reliability and customer satisfaction reports put Mazda up near the top also.

Also I have been watching the car for a while and it has been on his forecourt for a number of weeks. And it is true that Avensis resale values are very much stronger than those of the Mazda 6. But as I said by the time I part with either car they will be 7-8 years old with high mileage so resale value will not be much anyway.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

That crossed my mind too. Seemed too good a deal. But then, maybe he has a keen buyer lined up for the Avensis

You could be right.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

unlike my own car with has a timing chain the Mazda has a timing belt

Didn't know the Avensis had a chain. Mind they don't last forever either, just a lot less to worry about as you can hear problems coming well before it is too late!

bazz26 wrote:

You could be right.

Something you ain't telling us?

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Didn't know the Avensis had a chain. Mind they don't last forever either, just a lot less to worry about as you can hear problems coming well before it is too late!

Yes Toyota moved from t-belts to t-chains when they moved to VVTi technology.

unkel wrote:

Something you ain't telling us?

Nope, just get that feeling too. Come to think of it I'm getting a bit paranoid about the deal now? Maybe it is too good to be true?

Andy_R

Mazda 6 petrol has a timing chain too according to the main dealer that services my mother's 1.8. She had an Avensis before and can't believe how much cheaper Mazda service is (€108 last time at 37.5k miles; oil, oil filter, air filter and tyre rotation). The 6 is a bit thirsy though, changing for a diesel version in the new year. She's getting the Executive 143bhp, not bad for a 2.0 diesel!

bazz26

Andy_R wrote:

Mazda 6 petrol has a timing chain too according to the main dealer that services my mother's 1.8. She had an Avensis before and can't believe how much cheaper Mazda service is (€108 last time at 37.5k miles; oil, oil filter, air filter and tyre rotation). The 6 is a bit thirsy though, changing for a diesel version in the new year. She's getting the Executive 143bhp, not bad for a 2.0 diesel!

Interesting, I rang my local Mazda dealer yesterday and they said the timing belt needs to be changed at 60k miles. They quoted me €350 for the job which doesn't include changing the water pump.

I might ring a different dealer tomorrow to verify wether it is a timing belt or chain.