Time to ban culchies from building in Dublin?

HelterSkelter

Yes, sounds crazy doesn't it? But I was just reading the article below in the Independent and the new development plan for Wexford has restrictions where a person from outside Wexford cannot apply for planning permission in that county. Is this discrimination or what? And how can they get away with it?

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1731573&issue_id=14937

County plan to restrict 'blow-ins'

ONLY locals living in one of the country's fastest growing counties will be able to apply for planning permission to live there.

A new County Development Plan for Wexford is to be on public display in the coming weeks. But restrictions being imposed in Wexford town mean that while someone living there could apply for planning permission for a house in, for example, Rosslare, another person looking to move there from Dublin will be unable to do so.

In Gorey, the restrictions involve a large area of land, including Courtown.

The restrictions will affect Gorey, New Ross, Wexford, Enniscorthy, Ferns and Bunclody.

Wexford has a population growth of 13 per cent, one of the highest in the country.

The plan, approved last week, will go on display for 10 weeks.

Sarah Murphy

upthere

Time for some culchie logic I guess:

*No it's not discrimination if you call Dubliners referring to us as culchies as not discrimination.

*County Kilkenny already has restrictions on non locals building houses there too.

*Wexford and most of the south east counties are quite scenic yet this is ruined by the amount of houses going up for Dubs who only think of the places as a bog anyway.

*Dublin people are quick to criticise culchies as being alcoholics and troublemaking boggers, when in fact they come from Scanger Central.

*Dubliners flood our national primary roads in Wexford going down for the weekend, yet most money funded by the government they take from Europeans is being invested in Dublin roads!

*I would never want to move to Dublin anyway, it's a kip of a city and the people there think they are better than everyone else in Ireland.

*Scangers just want more living space to rule the rest of Ireland in the domination of culchies, yet we don't want that.

*Dubs complain about decentralisation. They say they don't want to move to rural towns etc because there's nothing there. Why are you quick to destroy our scenery and take space from our locals then by building your ugly looking holiday homes? And then renting them like greedy scabs.

*It's not just south east you are doing it too, it's other COUNTRIES too.

Stop with this social divide of culchies and scangers. It's stupid. Dubs are not smarter,better looking or any way better morals than us, you are just Dubs. Get over yourself, Ireland is a country. What do tourists want to do? Visit Irish countryside all day or go around O'Connell Street all day?

Ps. I have nothing against Dubs. Some are very nice people, in fact of THE nicest people I know are from Dublin; but this is dedicated to those who constantly think us "culchies" are below them.

Ice_Box

But Dubs are too lazy to work therefore us culchies have to run the place for ye.

HelterSkelter

upthere wrote:

Time for some culchie logic I guess:

*No it's not discrimination if you call Dubliners referring to us as culchies as not discrimination.

*County Kilkenny already has restrictions on non locals building houses there too.

*Wexford and most of the south east counties are quite scenic yet this is ruined by the amount of houses going up for Dubs who only think of the places as a bog anyway.

*Dublin people are quick to criticise culchies as being alcoholics and troublemaking boggers, when in fact they come from Scanger Central.

*Dubliners flood our national primary roads in Wexford going down for the weekend, yet most money funded by the government they take from Europeans is being invested in Dublin roads!

*I would never want to move to Dublin anyway, it's a kip of a city and the people there think they are better than everyone else in Ireland.

*Scangers just want more living space to rule the rest of Ireland in the domination of culchies, yet we don't want that.

*Dubs complain about decentralisation. They say they don't want to move to rural towns etc because there's nothing there. Why are you quick to destroy our scenery and take space from our locals then by building your ugly looking holiday homes? And then renting them like greedy scabs.

*It's not just south east you are doing it too, it's other COUNTRIES too.

Stop with this social divide of culchies and scangers. It's stupid. Dubs are not smarter,better looking or any way better morals than us, you are just Dubs. Get over yourself, Ireland is a country. What do tourists want to do? Visit Irish countryside all day or go around O'Connell Street all day?

Ps. I have nothing against Dubs. Some are very nice people, in fact of THE nicest people I know are from Dublin; but this is dedicated to those who constantly think us "culchies" are below them.

Some rant upthere!

A lot of Dublin people can't afford to buy in their own city anymore, that's why they have to move to the country. If us Dubs were to take the same action as taken in the Wexford Development plan then we would ban people not born in Dublin from buying property in Dublin. Problem solved for us. Do you think that is fair?

upthere

No wait Dubs are too elegant and sophiticated that when they come down they complain about us being unsophiticated and not posh. Yet they don't have much to do themselves. You won't hear of a middle class breaking a nail working, they get all the easy jobs.
Celtic tiger should have been called Scanger money. it's getting invested in Dublin the whole time. I don't think Dubs worked for that money though! It was the rest of Ireland.
Oh I'll probably get accused now of being a bogger and alcoholic from some middle class Dublin snob who thinks Wexford is a stupid thick place where people will let themselves get walked over by Dubs wanting to ruin our scenery, landscape and sense of regional identity. Should Ireland become outer Dublin where the City centre is literally county Dublin? Now I'm thinking abstractly on the issue and I'll say no more in fear of bogger related insults.

@Helter Skelter, yeah that would be a great idea. What about if I had a Dublin born son to rural parents though? Family history dominated place of birth anyway that's a separate issue. I would neve move to Dublin and anyone I know from here who lived there moved back and said it was a kip and they'd never stay there. Your house prices are like that because of economics that it's a city. It's a perk you have to accept, not scab off our advantages. You kids would be boggers and I don't think daddy or mammy would like that. Theyd have them sent to private schools and make them think they were a cut above the rest. Can't see you fitting in down here if you take that attitude!

HelterSkelter

Oh upthere, tut tut, what a chip on the shoulder you have!! What Dub píssed in your corn flakes this morning?!!!

kmick

If we keep buying up all the houses in Dublin with the money we stole from the Dubs selling them potatoes and butter then they will be forced to move to the BUFFALO counties where we will use them at the weekends to mind our childer and plant potato seeds which we will then sell back to them for the carveries we force them to eat after they have travelled half the day to get to their crummy day jobs. The plan is working well lads.

Drummerboy2

For many, many years country people have come to work in Dublin. Many have settled and brought up their families here. They integrated with the work colleagues and joined in sports clubs ect. Their has never been a ban on country people coming to live and work in Dublin, can you imagine the uproar if such a thing did happen. What county councils like Wickow and Wexford are doing is undemocratic. There are literally thousands of rented houses in Dublin owned by people from these counties. Should Dublin City Council force people from these counties to sell their Dublin properties in retaliation for these discriminating laws?

onedmc

upthere wrote:

..... it's getting invested in Dublin the whole time. I don't think Dubs worked for that money though! It was the rest of Ireland.
!

85% of the Tax collected in this country is collected in dublin so what are you on about.

upthere

kmick wrote:

If we keep buying up all the houses in Dublin with the money we stole from the Dubs selling them potatoes and butter then they will be forced to move to the BUFFALO counties where we will use them at the weekends to mind our childer and plant potato seeds which we will then sell back to them for the carveries we force them to eat after they have travelled half the day to get to their crummy day jobs. The plan is working well lads.

Yes this is attitude I'm talking about. Go on prove I'm right:)
This country relied on potatoes years ago for food and the famine is reference to that subject yet you are ignorant enough to mock it. You are quick to mock potatoes, are you English descent? You don't sound patriotic for Ireland but Dublin. By the way, Dublin is no where near city compared to London, Paris, Berlin etc etc most cities but it's easy to brag over culchies you are a city.
What would happen if you called the polish workers a name similar to culchie? Different scenarios you gotta look at.
How many cities have you been to that are even twinned with Dublin? In Chicago, you are in the airport it's twinned with loads of European cities but not Dublin. Since it has a high population of eastern european descendents, German, Swedish, Irish you would expect Dublin to be considered but no they even had Vilinius, Lithuania as a twinned city and not your crummy opionated snobby city. Where wants to be associated with Dublin.
They never forget their Irish identity but they never brag abou Dublin anywhere Irish related, it's not typical representation of a city or Ireland.
Noone pissed in my cornflakes, I'm sick of people from Dublin thinking they are natives of Pale and the rest boggers. Dublin is nothing to boast about! Seriously get over it.

upthere

onedmc wrote:

85% of the Tax collected in this country is collected in dublin so what are you on about.

Oh my God, that's really upsetting. We don't work then obviously down here. Is it right 75% appx live in Dublin and most business's are in Dublin?
I;ll think about what you said, but you think about what I said:)

The_Conductor

I was thinking to myself- if this thread was in Accommodation & Property I'd have locked it ages ago..... then the penny dropped.

2 choices guys- have a reasoned discussion based on facts and mutual respect for fellow posters- or this thread gets recycled- and bannings may be in the offing.

Shane

Wishbone Ash

I don't understand HelterSkelters amazement with the situation in Wexford. In my area of Dublin, for Zone B, it has been virtually impossible for someone who is not from the area to get planning permission. To be "from the area", they mean literally within a few hundred yards of the proposed dwelling. A Dublin person from another townland/village won't have a chance, nevermind someone from outside Dublin. AFAIK one can only apply after living there for 15 years or if they are full time employed in agriculture.

mikemac

I don’t see your point OP
This has been the case in my own area, Tipperary North for years and in many other counties as other posters have pointed out.

I think it’s a excellent idea.
It’s difficult for even locals to get permission to build on their own land around here.

The area has way too many holiday homes and small villages have Section 23 estates that largely remain vacant and are a blot on the landscape.

paulocon

This is becoming more and more the norm around the country, especially in 'pressure-areas', i.e. areas where there is a spill over from higher-populated areas..

However, reading it that someone from Dublin can't build in Wexford is putting a bit of a twist on the restriction. Most county-councils have implemented some sort of Local Needs policy whereby only people who live in an area and have definite ties to an area can apply to build a home in that area.

What this means is that someone from one area in Wexford would not be successful in applying for planning in another area of the county. Like I said, this particularly applies to 'pressure-areas' and by looking at the population-growth in Wexford, it looks like quite a large part of the county could be deemed a pressure area. There are a number of reasons for this and it is part of the National Rural Development Plan (I have a link somewhere and will dig up a copy).

Note that this doesn't mean that people from other areas cannot live in Wexford - indeed, you'll find that a large percentage of the population of New Developments in villages/towns around the county are not local.

Like I said, this is pretty standard in many counties and I have seen cases where people have brought old school yearbooks showing aunts/uncles etc. along to planning meetings to prove their links to the local area.

godtabh

You can ban people from out side the Dublin getting planning permission but that wont stop houses being built and being owned/rented by people out side of Dublin.

If you ban people form out side Dublin owning/renting in Dublin then your looking for trouble.

There is very few one off houses being built in Dublin so I dont think the OP has much of a leg to stand on with his argument

shoegirl

upthere wrote:

*County Kilkenny already has restrictions on non locals building houses there too.

*Wexford and most of the south east counties are quite scenic yet this is ruined by the amount of houses going up for Dubs who only think of the places as a bog anyway.

*It's not just south east you are doing it too, it's other COUNTRIES too.

Well I have to say that generally if you look around the country most of the worst eyesores of one-off houses, inappropriate developments etc, are designed, paid for and built by local people. Its a bit rich to blame "outsiders."

Counties bringing in "no outsider" policies are only worsening the overall situation which rightly should be dealt with by giving the appropriate powers to board pleanala to stop bad developments (and bad development policies).

In fairness as a Dub whose lived outside Dublin for 6 of the last 10 years and will probably remain outside, I do see a lot of benefits for people relocating outside of the capital - its already heaving under the population growth - much of it from country migrants, and the families of several previous generations of country migrants. Rural Ireland needs its people back - the people who left it from the 30s to the 80s. And its good to see "dublin" people (many of whom in any case are the families of country migrants of previus generations) repopulating places that were dying.

Dublin is to a large extent now revisiting back on rural ireland what rural Ireland visited on Dublin in previous generations.

Having said that most of the nastiest holiday homers I've come accross down here in cork are native cork people. Arrogance spewing out of every pore, and as bad if not worse than the worst kind of D4 holiday home building parasites. Its all to easy to blame a stereotype that you probably don't know of for real, except in the pages of "Ross O'Carroll-Kelly" books. There is a real need to focus development outside of Dublin, and its in the interest of everybody if this does encourage Dubs to move outside of Dublin. I think its healthy migration patterns. Not wanting "Dubs" outside of dublin does smack of "**** go home" to me.

Still can't see, by the way, why anybody would want to buy a house in Delvin.

Nermal

upthere wrote:

How many cities have you been to that are even twinned with Dublin?

Liverpool, Barcelona, San Jose

muffler

Cant see what all, the fuss is about. Those rules have been in force in Donegal for the last 6 years and I think the same applies to almost all counties in Ireland.

fly_agaric

upthere wrote:

What would happen if you called the polish workers a name similar to culchie?

It's Oppression I tells ya!
Jackeen, scumbag, scanger, or especially for the nasty and unwanted Dublin refugees priced out to Louth and beyond who are the targets of such restrictions....BLOW-IN:)...any of these terms ring the old bell with you?

Of course, "culchies" are probably "only havin'a laff at the auld Jackeens" if they throw such terms around eh?;)
Especially the Blow-in one! Coming to a county near you - The Invasion of the Santry People!:)

Victor

I take it that anyone can still build in the towns and that this only applies to the countryside?

muffler

Victor wrote:

I take it that anyone can still build in the towns and that this only applies to the countryside?

Yes - thats the case in Donegal and I would assume it applies all over the country.

The only restriction here in relation to the smaller towns and villages is that the number of housing units cannot be increased by any more than 60% over the lifetime of the development. That rule hits the developers of multiple housing rather than people building individual houses.

hmmm

We live in one country and anyone should be entitled to own a property in any part of the country they want. If county councils don't want to provide services to certain areas they should ban all development and not slap artificial restrictions in place based on your county passport - it's the countryside equivalent of the gated estates in cities. The minister for environment (or local govt) should have stepped in a long time ago to put a stop to it.

OTK

hmmm wrote:

We live in one country and anyone should be entitled to own a property in any part of the country they want.

Anyone can live in any part of the country they wish by buying a house there. This restriction applies only to new builds and is designed to create an opportunity for locals to build houses and sell them on to outsiders at a markup. Property transactions seem to be the principal industry in the country after drawing huge sums of cash from the civil service and semistates for doing sod-all.

I think upthere is having you all on and doing a parody of a 'culchie'.

Kipperhell

OTK wrote:

Anyone can live in any part of the country they wish by buying a house there. This restriction applies only to new builds and is designed to create an opportunity for locals to build houses and sell them on to outsiders at a markup. Property transactions seem to be the principal industry in the country after drawing huge sums of cash from the civil service and semistates for doing sod-all.

I think upthere is having you all on and doing a parody of a 'culchie'.

Not quite they are preventing property being sold to individuals based on where they come from. Conditions of developments are stating that they must be sold to "locals". So it is not that you can't get planning if you are from outside the area you are also unable to buy certain housing .

Up there is obviously trolling.

What people should be doing is insisting that the Dublin area councils put similar restrictions on large developments in Dublin on top of affordable housing. The only problem is it is to do with residency also which means people working in Dublin would qualify too no matter where they are from. Either way methods to insure community integrity are not fundementally wrong but baddly applied concempt such as this are being challanged in EU courts and won't last. It can be definitley argued such policies are racist or at least exclusionary for citizens that are meant to have equal rights.

upthere

I'm not trolling, that is such a lazy label to use for someone you disagree with and you find them speaking strongly on something.
I am speaking for what I believe in.
The word racist and discrimination is a word used too often now it's becoming a problem.
Dubliners discriminate me and yet they totally ignore our issues. Look at Carlow, it's totally blocked during rush hour almost, yet if it was somewhere in Dublin, it would become almost priority.
The sooner the old battleaxes in this goverment from someone upper class part of Dublin think about the rural areas, the less anger it will evoke from the outside Dublin areas.
And Dublin is not that great at all. In fact I feel depressed having to drive there. The only thing worth it in Dublin is the airport and even that's a joke! One door with 200 people or more queing before getting to the metal detectors. Talk about a joke? They call it an international airport? Wake up to the reality of this urbanised stuck up non patriotic, anti rural, country.

mountainyman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T54TU8bsj8

HelterSkelter

upthere wrote:

Dubliners discriminate me and yet they totally ignore our issues. Look at Carlow, it's totally blocked during rush hour almost, yet if it was somewhere in Dublin, it would become almost priority.
The sooner the old battleaxes in this goverment from someone upper class part of Dublin think about the rural areas, the less anger it will evoke from the outside Dublin areas.

upthere, you can't blame Dubliners if you think your part of the country is low-priority. That is down to your elected representitives. If you take a poll of the TD's in the Dáil I bet the vast majority of them are not from Dublin. They are the ones who make all the decisions. So why blame Dubliners?

upthere wrote:

And Dublin is not that great at all. In fact I feel depressed having to drive there. The only thing worth it in Dublin is the airport and even that's a joke! One door with 200 people or more queing before getting to the metal detectors. Talk about a joke? They call it an international airport? Wake up to the reality of this urbanised stuck up non patriotic, anti rural, country.

Nobody is claiming Dublin is great. If you hate it so much why do you drive to Dublin?

Kipperhell

upthere wrote:

I'm not trolling, that is such a lazy label to use for someone you disagree with and you find them speaking strongly on something.
I am speaking for what I believe in.

Well if you truely believe that then you might try to give an educated view instead of silly catch phrase and rant like points. All your points have been lazy at best when coherant as they are just how you feel and bear little connection to reality .

upthere wrote:

Dubliners discriminate me and yet they totally ignore our issues. Look at Carlow, it's totally blocked during rush hour almost, yet if it was somewhere in Dublin, it would become almost priority.

A completely incoherant point or points. What discriination are Dubliners doing? Whatever you are trying to say it is neither clear or likely given what little I can make out of what you are saying.

upthere wrote:

The sooner the old battleaxes in this goverment from someone upper class part of Dublin think about the rural areas, the less anger it will evoke from the outside Dublin areas.

Again what are you trying to say. As pointed out the majority of the government aren't from Dublin let alone upper class Dubliners. Maybe you could give it as a percentage of the overall government to explain how the "Dublin" government are dictating and restricting people outside of Dublin.

upthere wrote:

And Dublin is not that great at all. In fact I feel depressed having to drive there. The only thing worth it in Dublin is the airport and even that's a joke! One door with 200 people or more queing before getting to the metal detectors. Talk about a joke? They call it an international airport? Wake up to the reality of this urbanised stuck up non patriotic, anti rural, country.

I have traveled a lot and Dublin Airport is pretty standard for a international airport with ques and waiting times. You also don't know that there is more than one door into the gates. Dublin is not great but I'd rather live here than most other places. My experience of rural Ireland is that it is full of small minded people with little or no life experience. They are quite hostile as you are to people from Dublin.

I have heard the rural rants before and most are selective understandings of reality or just pure ignorance.
The government is economically focused not Dublin focused. Things like preservation of fishing stocks to insure a viable future are seen as anti rural things when it is the preservation. Policies to reduce farm emissions and waste are similar.
Most of Dublin problems are becasue they deal with the majority of the population and the goverenment has failed to plan for it properly as the government is mostly made up with people who are clueless when it comes to a true urban environment.
One final point discrimination is over used but I used it correctly in reference to court cases where as your point of discimination is you dislike traffic. If you dislike the over use maybe you should use it correctly or not at all if you don't understand the word.

upthere

Before you go into a small minded rant about rural people, I lived in a city 7 times larger than Dublin until I was 9 so I don't consider myself against you because I am totally rural.
You're city is poorly managed and makes class distinction against the rest of this nation which is the backbone of Ireland.
And politics in general take more priority in Dublin.
And the reason I drove to Dublin is partly because(not related to me individually) the radiotherapy service is located in Dublin only; we have asked for the service to be extended to the south east but they never acted on it.
It's horrible to have cancer and travel that much especially when the m11 is blocked because of pipes breaking where they are too lazy to advance plan for.
I waited 3 hours in a car on a one lane motorway. And Dublin airport is not up to the standards inside it. The runway is pretty good and the size, but organisation and planning is unrealistic there. And I know there's more gates than one.
I was quite open minded up until recently when I noticed the attitude from Dublin people that we all live in huts down here. I have to drive to Dublin for reasons and I have wrote that they extend the services to other parts of the country.
The health care is not Dublins fault, but the goverments for neglecting everywhere in this nation too. I'm just saying that Dublin does get more priority in a lot of issues. The rest can just wait.

It should be a law. People from the country should stop trying to bring culture and decency to Dublin, and in return maybe the Jackeens could stop invading scenic counties like Kerry on the booze cruises, all down for the cheap weekends to see Brendan Grace and June Rogers, leaving us clear up all the broken glass and syringes. It should be done on an international basis, maybe all the Doob taxi drivers who invested their 50k to buy some kip of an apartment in Alicante should be cleared out of there too and back to Ballyfermah and Tallah...