BER Assesor Training launched today!

ardara1

Spoke to a participant from the 1st Galway course - quote 'Bloody Disaster'
The course should have included two modules - the first was dispensed with because the participants were picked from a certain category that should have the required skills for module 1 - (Architects & Engineers?????)

The software didn't work and the guy that was brought in from the UK wasn't very happy with procedings either.

Results are due out today I hear - I expect every one will pass!

On the point of the correlation between plans and site - the builder signing off the specification that verifies air permeability robust detailing and fabric U-values etc ???? it's a new way of thinking about construction, they either need to have training the energy efficient building or be inspected by building control.

serotonin_sam

ardara1 wrote:

On the point of the correlation between plans and site - the builder signing off the specification that verifies air permeability robust detailing and fabric U-values etc ???? it's a new way of thinking about construction, they either need to have training the energy efficient building or be inspected by building control.

Well that point I was approaching from the viewpoint of the assessor. The assessor will be liable in the case of an 'inaccurate' rating. So its my opinion (and others I have spoken to are of a similar mind) that an assessor would have to have some form of signoff from the builder (or maybe advise the builder in writing that the assessment was based on particular plan supplied & other info eg. heating system used, etc. as advised by the builder.
Bottom line is the assessor has to cover his own backside.

inspected by building control.

lol
And that happens how often?

ardara1

serotonin_sam wrote:

The assessor will be liable in the case of an 'inaccurate' rating. So its my opinion (and others I have spoken to are of a similar mind) that an assessor would have to have some form of signoff from the builder (or maybe advise the builder in writing that the assessment was based on particular plan supplied & other info eg. heating system used, etc. as advised by the builder.
Bottom line is the assessor has to cover his own backside.

Is this not exactly what happens at present when the architects signs off a project - to be 'substantially in compliance with etc etc' - and how many of the current new house build complies with Part L?
there'll be that many assessors in the country that will not have they're results regularly checked that the certs will become meaningless. the assessors RESULTS were originally to be accredited by a team who would then send the certs out from a central bank - bet it doesn't happen.

pjbrady1

Is there anybody who completed the course (no results yet we know) who feels that they know how to now proceed and give a BER cert for the plans for a new building. As of Januray 1st (7 working days time), we need several of such people. In my opinion the minister will have to delay the implementation of this scheme until the software is completely signed off and bug free. Especially if the software was tested in house by the SEI (in my opinion). Software would have had to been tested by an independent company, who would have needed to have been provided with the "full" and final specification of what the software needed to do, what data it should handle, results it should produce, admininstration side of things, scalability, stress tested for number of users reporting to database. The scheme may start as a paper exercise but how are they going to switch over to making it a software based exercise. The potential for error in a paper based exercise will undermine assesors credibility.

A further question comes to mind, who would be confident to start a career as an assesor when the software is not even ready. You might have the scenario of being qualified in something that is impossible to practice is (in my opinion)
All in my opinion
P.J.

serotonin_sam

ardara1 wrote:

the assessors RESULTS were originally to be accredited by a team who would then send the certs out from a central bank - bet it doesn't happen.

This is still the plan according to SEI (unless they change direction..). I believe they will stick with this system. They also claim that they will audit assessors - just a hunch but I really doubt that this will take place as regularly as would be expected.

ardara1 wrote:

Is this not exactly what happens at present when the architects signs off a project - to be 'substantially in compliance with etc etc' - and how many of the current new house build complies with Part L?

Yes, your right of course. But again we dont have very little in terms of building regs that actually mean something legally. From an assessors point of view, If it was me - I would be putting down on paper confirmation that its the builders responsibility to ensure that he satisfys himself that his building is in compliance with the building regs.

pjbrady1 wrote:

A further question comes to mind, who would be confident to start a career as an assesor when the software is not even ready. You might have the scenario of being qualified in something that is impossible to practice is (in my opinion)

I really dont think theres a 'career' to be had in this pj. A spot of part time work for newcomers. Its could be an extension of services rendered for architects or engineers (although they may very well lose interest if the going rate of the fee drops below what it should be - which I think it will).
SEI mentioned 2000 assessors - thats a joke.
1000 assessors - is still laughable..

pjbrady1 wrote:

As of Januray 1st (7 working days time), we need several of such people.

Ah, but do we though

pjbrady1

So is the only thing we are all in agreement about, is that things are going to get messy, several different parties will point the finger at each other and there is a strong possibility the implementation of EPBD in Ireland could turn into a farce. If 2007 gets messy, and it carries on until late 2007, well then new commercial buildings are coming onstream in July 2008. Can't see their being too many people available to audit these far more complex buildings.

ardara1

Has any of the guys that trained to be Energy Assessors started advertising their services anywhere yet?

Do-more

ardara1 wrote:

Has any of the guys that trained to be Energy Assessors started advertising their services anywhere yet?

I thought that SEI were supposed to put a list of approved assessors on their website! No sign of anything yet, typical SEI efficency!

serotonin_sam

ardara1 wrote:

Has any of the guys that trained to be Energy Assessors started advertising their services anywhere yet?

Have been mulling it over but is there really any point just yet. Theres no work out there. It only applies to dwellings that have planning applied for after 1 Jan 07. Its going to take a good few months for the first of these to filter through to a stage where the builders looking at getting a BER done dont you think?

Do-more wrote:

I thought that SEI were supposed to put a list of approved assessors on their website! No sign of anything yet, typical SEI efficency!
Today 08:08

They have promised to do so. However, the first 60 assessors - whilst trained - have not been registered with SEI as assessors. This will not take place until next week.

If either of you have an idea of where to get a good deal on indemnity insurance can you pm me please.:p

ardara1

Thought it might not happen

See Irish Times Article

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/0102/1167401997581.html

Do-more

Liam Reid - Irish Times wrote:

Privately, officials in the Department blamed the delay on the fact that the system of independent inspectors who will provide the ratings was not in place.

The above statement when decoded reads: SEI are a complete shower of tossers who couldn't organise a pi$$ up in St Jame's Gate!

ardara1

Found the press release from Minister Roche - well hidden - on SEI web site - can't link it but go to SEI.ie - then EPBD - then LATEST NEWS - then FOR FURTHER INFO PLEASE DOWNLOAD THE FOLLOWING PRESS RELEASE.

And apparently we know how much they're going to cost!

An initial batch of over 60 BER Assessors have already been trained and passed as competent by Galway- Mayo IT; and are now eligible for registration with Sustainable Energy Ireland. A significant roll out of BER assessors is expected in the first half of 2006.

Cost of BER Certificate

The BER certificate for new dwelling is expected to cost around €300- which will be payable by builder (including a self-builder) /developer or vendor/landlord. Reduced fees are expected to apply to identical new houses in housing estates; and identical new flats in apartment blocks. It is hoped that a competitive market will develop in the setting of BER fees but, if it doesn’t, the Minister will reserve the right to set maximum BER fees by Regulation,”

ecoeye

I have been trying to get on one of these courses for the past few months and have failed up until yesterday. The DIT are running online courses but I was told by a number of people that the course is too intensive to study online. I contacted a number of other providers and was told that they were all booked up until October !!

Just yesterday I went searching on google and I came across a company called Energy Experts, they are the largest BER training company in Ireland. They offer training courses in every city and have over 30 qualified trainers. They are running a number of courses in Dublin weekly and I signed up on their website which was very informative. They also guarantee exam results within 2 weeks which is brilliant as this will help me get started in carry out assessments for builders as most of the local authorities are now looking for BERS prior to granting planning permission.

eoghan.geraghty

ecoeye wrote:

I have been trying to get on one of these courses for the past few months and have failed up until yesterday. The DIT are running online courses but I was told by a number of people that the course is too intensive to study online. I contacted a number of other providers and was told that they were all booked up until October !!

Just yesterday I went searching on google and I came across a company called Energy Experts, they are the largest BER training company in Ireland. They offer training courses in every city and have over 30 qualified trainers. They are running a number of courses in Dublin weekly and I signed up on their website which was very informative. They also guarantee exam results within 2 weeks which is brilliant as this will help me get started in carry out assessments for builders as most of the local authorities are now looking for BERS prior to granting planning permission.

Now if that ain't pimpin', you should write ads for miracle hair growth/weight loss/add your own weak marketing campaign here:D

ardara1

Did a search and couldn't find them! - Where in Gods name did they get 30 QUALIFIED TEACHERS? In Ireland! - ENgland has been at accredited SAP education for over 10 years - They can't get qualified staff!

Any contact details please post.

mullanimal

I was searching up on this and found http://www.ber-training.ie

They are in Wexford I think, part of the Daralinn Health and Safety Training company.

Might be worth a look for people interested...

EcoSupply

I found these guys very good. Check them out www.cgtraining.ie

secman

Eco .. Any affiliation with co you are recommending in your very first post ?

secman

DaveR321

Not sure how active this post still is but here's my 2 cents worth..I did the SEI Assessor course with a crowd called chevron about 4 months ago, it was involved and I think it was fairly standard compared to feeback from other training centers. Anyway, I came out with an expecation of a lot of work as I am an self employed plumber in the area for a number of years and have done training on solar, geothermal etc. The thing is that there is not too much work out there on the BER side and I'm not sure if its about to change - despite what the trainer said to us.

The builders that I work with reckon they are training up themselves and, even then, that the architects on the job are most likely to care of BER assesment side of things. So much for my network. Are others seeing the same thing out there? Recently I have had a few private jobs through Onlinetradesmen.com from self builders and a few local referrals but that's about the size of it. I rang Onlinetradesmen.com to ask them if they are seeing a lot of work and they reckoned that the demand for private contractors is relatively small at the moment but said it is likely to pick up as second hand homes fall into it. I'm now not sure if getting into this area was a waste of money or not - any thoughts out there?

baguio

@Dave: Nobody has made any significant money at this. The second phase might be a little more interesting. However, factor in the downturn and all the people looking for ways of making a living and the supply/demand ratio isn't going to be a healthy one.
At best, this is a part time gig. Alternatively, a service to be offered by those where it fits in as an additional service complementing existing services.

The real money is being made by the training providers. Thats why its quite likely the whole BER deal was talked up when you did the course. Some training providers are marketing quite aggressively and theres a reason for that.

trevdahead

ive been considering doing this course for awhile,but have recently been speaking to a few estate agents that i know who have told me that most of the auctioneering companys are sending there guys to do the course.
what they then are intending to do is either offer the BER cert built into their final commision on sale of a property or offer it at discounted rate at the beginning,this is all dependant on the market.
When you consider they are the first port of call when someone is selling a property i fear they will sow the market up and all those who have done the course will find themselves unable to compete.

taxi123

I have been researching this topic for quite some time now, but to be honest had no interest in becoming an assessor for new houses due to the downturn in the construction sector, having previously worked as an electrician we were the first to be affected by the slowdurn.

The course for existing dwellings is commencing in September 2008, Chevron Training are now taking pre bookings for this and from their website www.chevrontraining.ie/existing I notice that most of their courses are already booked out. When the BER courses started first I was concerned about the market being flooded very quickly, however that didnt transpire.

SEI have stated that there will be a requirment for 2000 assessors and there are currently 610 assessors listed on the SEI website http://193.178.2.42/SearchAssessors.aspx

I am considering getting back into the industry now that the legislation is coming in from January 2009 as all houses being rented or sold will require a Building Energy Rating cert.

baguio

taxi123 wrote: »

I have been researching this topic for quite some time now, but to be honest had no interest in becoming an assessor for new houses due to the downturn in the construction sector, having previously worked as an electrician we were the first to be affected by the slowdurn.

The course for existing dwellings is commencing in September 2008, Chevron Training are now taking pre bookings for this and from their website www.chevrontraining.ie/existing I notice that most of their courses are already booked out. When the BER courses started first I was concerned about the market being flooded very quickly, however that didnt transpire.

SEI have stated that there will be a requirment for 2000 assessors and there are currently 610 assessors listed on the SEI website http://193.178.2.42/SearchAssessors.aspx

I am considering getting back into the industry now that the legislation is coming in from January 2009 as all houses being rented or sold will require a Building Energy Rating cert.

I suppose your going to tell us you have no affiliation to Chevron - and no vested interest? yeah right....:rolleyes:

As I mentioned before, if your going to get into this, be aware that this will be a part time gig only (unless you have an existing business with other services that it fits in with). 2000 assessors was mentioned by SEI a couple of years ago - but this is just fluff. I would imagine that their concerns at the time in setting up the scheme were that they would get flack if the cost of a cert was seen to be exorbitant. There is no need for so many assessors - as we can see right now - and will see again next year with existing build.

ismynametoolong

Cant see it been too good a job in the present economic climate !!

Hands up who voted for the Greens !!

shamrock_man

Wel, was thinking of doing the ber course just wondering if anyone who did the course is finding much work out there assessing at the minute? Is there any change in opinions in the last few months?

absinth

Soooooo...

Has the work picked up in the first 2 months of the year now that landlords need a BER cert to rent their properties?

KEN.G

absinth wrote: »

Soooooo...

Has the work picked up in the first 2 months of the year now that landlords need a BER cert to rent their properties?

bUMP

Alfasud

The only people gaining are the SEI and the trainers. Every TOM DICK and HARRY has it now contrary to the qualifications that were required in the beginning.