Smokers getting a rough ride?

smemon

think about it..

people pay money to burn their own money

fools.

smoking should be banned, made illegal and anyone who takes ill due to smoke-related illness, should be forced to pay for any medical treatment they receive.

no excuses if you smoke imo. You should be made to feel uncomfortable and a social outcast.

smoking rooms should be banned, ashtrays on bins and tables destroyed and a hefty on the spot €100 fine for litter bugs or people who smoke in public.

nesf

smemon wrote:

smoking should be banned, made illegal and anyone who takes ill due to smoke-related illness, should be forced to pay for any medical treatment they receive.

Cool, and while we're at lets force people involved in drunk driving crashes, obese people and people with high cholesterol, people with any kind of sports injury, people getting cavaties filled, people involved in fights and in fact anyone whose illness or condition is in the slightest part their own fault to pay for their own treatment.

It'd save us a load in the budget each year and it might teach them not to do it too!

Fighting Irish

netwhizkid wrote:

This government in my opinion have made a complete hash of the way they are managing smoking. €6.55 for Cigarettes is a joke they should be at least €9, Banning ten packs is a good idea too, but their is so much more that could be done, for instance suspension/expulsion for teenagers smoking on school grounds etc.

Young people should be prevented from Smoking at all costs and I would go furthur by banning 20 packs and make it only available in packets of 200 @ €100 per pack representing €10 per 20 pack, I'd like to see teenagers get their hands on them then. Smokers would benefit from having the major incentive to quit and would never run out also. Smokers are second class citizens and are the same sort's you see feeding McDonalds to toddlers or who would happily run a key down the side of your car.

There should be no let-up in the taxation on them. If the Government do take the initiative and hike cigarette prices it will be only the 4th good thing they have done since coming to power in 1997. No. 1: Banning Smoking in Workplaces (should be public ban) No. 2: The Citizenship Referendum and the Drift Netting Ban this year. Smokers deserve nothing more than to get screwed and told tell me otherwise, the thing is if they are so worried why don't they go out and vote, they won't most will vote Fianna Fail so they deserve tax hikes.

When I see smokers, I think Darwinism at work, nothing to see here people, they will only live half of their life, bequating illness's to their offspring like Asthma etc. Frankly I think society is better off without smokers as such people are a drain to society and help hold it back.

Intelligence and Non-Smokers FTW.

:rolleyes:

Aerial

Hate free will much? :rolleyes:

High taxes on cigarettes won't stop people from buying them, especially not teenagers. Many teenagers have part-time jobs, shocking I know!

Adam

The amount of idiots, with ridiculously unfounded arguments, in this thread is astounding.

*glares at kizzyr, laslo, smemon, netwhizkid etc.*

Fighting Irish

Mirror wrote:

The amount of idiots, with ridiculously unfounded arguments, in this thread is astounding.

*glares at kizzyr, laslo, smemon, netwhizkid etc.*

Werd

Lets make packs of only 10 smokes and make them €50 a packet :rolleyes:
I hope the above people know that eventually if the prices keep increasing that most people will buy from the black market

Wibbs

WhiteWashMan wrote:

until you can come back with facts and figures to back up a statement like that, dont use it as fact.

OK lets look at the asthma assertion; http://www.data-yard.net/30/asthma.htm
As an aside, add to the above the fairly obvious observation that there are far more kids with asthma nowadays when compared to the past, even in my memory(20yrs ago). As a kid I only knew of one bloke in the whole year that was asthmatic. In an average sized class of today what do you find? Plus back then you could smoke pretty much everywhere and more people smoked. While asthma can certainly be exascerbated by tobacco smoke, there is little evidence for it being anything like a causative factor. Surely if there was a causative factor with asthma we would be seeing a reduction in cases not the massive increase.

In certain cases of artery occlusion; http://www.data-yard.net/34/circulation_2001_104_773.htm

Ulcerative colitis; http://www.data-yard.net/22/ncbi.htm

Gum disease; http://www.data-yard.net/10o/gums.htm

Attention deficit disorder is another one where researchers found that kids affected by it often dropped off the map as they got older. Reason? They had taken up smoking. Some researchers are now looking at nicotine patches as an alternative to Ritilin, Prozac etc.

Longevity is another one. Japan has the highest average age of death in the world today and far higher rates of smoking than in Ireland. Greeks have among the highest life expectancies among European nations and have among the highest smoking rates. BTW the oldest person who ever lived was a smoker; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment (she gave up on doctors orders at 96, but took it up again when her doctor died )

Finally Alzheimers and such; http://www.data-yard.net/10q1/neuro-nico.htm http://www.data-yard.net/10i1/nic_alz.htm BTW it's not because they die younger. A large Australian study found little evidence of early death. The WHO largest study on passive smoke found absolutely no correlation between disease and secondhand smoke. A 30 year Californian study tracking males in that time found that although the smoking rate had massively declined the lung cancer rate had stayed exactly the same. Not what you would expect if it was "the cause" as opposed to a causative factor. Compare with asbestiosis. When asbestos was banned, what did we see? A massive drop in asbestiosis, which you would expect. There's more to many of these illnesses than can be laid solely at the feet of smoking.

"Facts" enough for you?

i am honest enough with myself to know that i dont like the taste of them, they make me smell awful, they are an expensive habit, they really screw my breathing and my lungs, and i often used them to hide behind during awkward situations, or as some sort of placebic stress reliever.

TBH I'm not that keen on ciggies. I prefer a good cigar or pipe. Generally not inhaled and I do enjoy the taste and the smell. Comparing a ciggie with a good Cuban is like comparing Dutch Gold with fine Champagne.

i feel that people who tend to defend their decision to smoke to such a degree, often feel the way i do about smoking.
as hamlet said, 'me feel the lady doth protest too much'.

Ooh ducky get her goin round feelin ladies. You can get arrested for that you know.

Anyway not really. I get irritated by the messianic ramblings of some that blame everything on smoking. Although hard to prove I strongly suspect that if smoking was banned tomorrow the benefits would be nowhere near as strong as many would like to think. They'd just start wittering on about something else. "Oooh I can smell the transfats from your burger. You're oppressing me". It's not the "evidence" on both sides it's the excessive self flagellating moaning that irritates. I'm sorry if walking past a bunch of smokers offends you then you have bigger issues.

J.R.HARTLEY

A chemical derived from nicotine may protect against dementia

its a bit of a stretch

Wibbs

Not really if the benefits of nicotine itself are statistically strong in dementia. In any case a patch would do it. You wouldn't need to spark up a mally light.

kizzyr

Mirror wrote:

The amount of idiots, with ridiculously unfounded arguments, in this thread is astounding.

*glares at kizzyr, laslo, smemon, netwhizkid etc.*

Glare away, I think smokers stink, I think its a disgusting habit but if glaring at me because I think that makes you feel better than work away:)

Just because yours was the first post that I came across spouting this búllshít point of view. Any person over the age of 18 is LEGALLY ENTITLED TO THEIR RIGHT TO SMOKE!

Its not a bullsh1t point of view, I'm amused at how overly defensive smokers are of their habit. Why do you need acceptance by non smokers so badly that you have to be this OTT in your defence

Why?

I personally have no religious beliefs, ultimately I don't believe humans or indeed myself to be significantly important.

Why should I bother keeping healthy?

Now I don't smoke, but I drink and sometimes do other drugs, possibly damaging my body, but I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to/should have a responsibility not to.

Why should you care for the only body you have as much as you can? because as soon as something goes wrong with it you'll be off down to your GP/ hospital/ consultant of whatever and be asking them to fix you and be pi$$ed off if they can't. I work in a hospital and see this every day. Obese people come in wondering why on earth they have cardiac problems, diabetes, joint problems etc etc and moaning that doctors can't fix them:rolleyes: Answer is in their own hands most of the time, stop putting food into your mouth every waking minute of the day and get some exercise:rolleyes: They was a guy in last week, must have been 30 - 35 max, was hugely overweight, had had diabetes for a year or so, obviously had done SFA about his food intake given a) his size and b) the fact that he was munching down on a Mars bar with a bottle of Coke by his side. He'd cut his foot, hadn't cared for the wound properly and the end result was that he was going to lose the bottom half of his leg and was wondering why and moaning about the (as he termed it) so called medical "experts":rolleyes: So whether religous or not it doesn't matter but I do think you have a body and its up to you to care for it as best you can.

nesf

kizzyr wrote:

Why should you care for the only body you have as much as you can? because as soon as something goes wrong with it you'll be off down to your GP/ hospital/ consultant of whatever and be asking them to fix you and be pi$$ed off if they can't. I work in a hospital and see this every day. Obese people come in wondering why on earth they have cardiac problems, diabetes, joint problems etc etc and moaning that doctors can't fix them:rolleyes: Answer is in their own hands most of the time, stop putting food into your mouth every waking minute of the day and get some exercise:rolleyes: They was a guy in last week, must have been 30 - 35 max, was hugely overweight, had had diabetes for a year or so, obviously had done SFA about his food intake given a) his size and b) the fact that he was munching down on a Mars bar with a bottle of Coke by his side. He'd cut his foot, hadn't cared for the wound properly and the end result was that he was going to lose the bottom half of his leg and was wondering why and moaning about the (as he termed it) so called medical "experts":rolleyes: So whether religous or not it doesn't matter but I do think you have a body and its up to you to care for it as best you can.

Sure, that is all fine but it still doesn't justify your belief that we have a duty/requirement to look after our own health. It justifies it for you, and you are more than entitled to believe it, it's a good belief to hold imho, but you simply cannot expect others to hold it also.

kizzyr

nesf wrote:

Sure, that is all fine but it still doesn't justify your belief that we have a duty/requirement to look after our own health. It justifies it for you, and you are more than entitled to believe it, it's a good belief to hold imho, but you simply cannot expect others to hold it also.

Thats as may be and I think its pretty sad that people have such little respect for themselves and their health/ bodies when they abuse it. By that I mean on a regular basis. I'm not a health nazi that says everyone must have X amount of fruit and veg portions every single day coupled with X amount of exercise etc. We all like to indulge in things that aren't necessarily good for us and in moderation this isn't a problem. However would people suddenly change their outlook (and belief that they don't owe anything to themselves to care for their health) if health care professionals suddenly were given the right to either refuse or withdraw treatment if they felt their patients weren't pulling their weight with regard to their recovery? Or if the charges for the treatment were increased according to the lack of respect you showed for your body?

smemon

oh yes, us non-smokers are idiots :rolleyes:

we're the ones who literally burn our money, knowingly do damage to our bodies and ultimately reduce our life span and of those around us :cool:

smoking is becoming like drink driving now, it's not cool, it's not accepted and eventually, it will be completely stamped out and frowned upon. And rightly so.

WhiteWashMan

Wibbs wrote:

"Facts" enough for you?.

actually, i was talking about the 'drain on the medical resources' argument v the drain on medical resources as caused by 'smoking related' illnesses.
but interesting reading none the less.

Wibbs wrote:

I'm sorry if walking past a bunch of smokers offends you then you have bigger issues.

its a good thing i dont then. but then again, i have more important things in my life to be worried about than what other people do, but i tend to have a live and let live attitude. as far as im concerned, if it doesnt effect me , you can run around naked with lobsters hanging from your testicals for all i give a monkeys.
nor am i worried if people dont agree with my opinions, especially on the issue of smoking. it is and probably always will be a very emotive subject, but all i can say is that i enjoy going to the pub in scotland and ireland. i live in the UK, and the last 4 times i have been to the pub here, ive had to leave after an hour becuase my eyes have become irritated to the point that i find it hard to not continually scratch at them.

i can only comment on my own experiences, but i think smoking is stupid. i think people that smoke are stupid. i know. i was a smoker for an awful long time, and i was stupid. i know people that hate smoking and yet still persist in doing it. and yet, you threaten them with a smoking ban, and they get all, well, they get all boardsie on it.
its all about 'their rights as smokers', and 'its my life' etc etc etc. but every time they have a cigarette, they tell you they want to quit and they wish they didnt smoe. i fail to see the point in that kind of crap.

but hey, if poeple want to smoke, go ahead and smoke! but please allow me feel pity for you. and if i start smoking again. i will feel sorry for myself. and i will feel stupid. but at least i will be honest and acknowledge it to myself

nesf

kizzyr wrote:

Thats as may be and I think its pretty sad that people have such little respect for themselves and their health/ bodies when they abuse it. By that I mean on a regular basis. I'm not a health nazi that says everyone must have X amount of fruit and veg portions every single day coupled with X amount of exercise etc. We all like to indulge in things that aren't necessarily good for us and in moderation this isn't a problem. However would people suddenly change their outlook (and belief that they don't owe anything to themselves to care for their health) if health care professionals suddenly were given the right to either refuse or withdraw treatment if they felt their patients weren't pulling their weight with regard to their recovery? Or if the charges for the treatment were increased according to the lack of respect you showed for your body?

You mean remove the hippocratic oath? Eh, look, you're entitled to your opinion and all but if you hold the belief that medical professionals shouldn't treat people who "didn't pull their weight" then you really should change profession imho.

kizzyr

nesf wrote:

You mean remove the hippocratic oath? Eh, look, you're entitled to your opinion and all but if you hold the belief that medical professionals shouldn't treat people who "didn't pull their weight" then you really should change profession imho.

I'm not saying that member of the medical profession should do that I was only putting an idea out there. Many doctors are however immensely frustrated at their patients total assumption that by merely presenting for treatment that they have done their bit and the onus for everything else is on the doctor they are seeing.
RE: hippocratic oath.........most doctors no longer take that oath nor are they obliged to anymore. They do have a code of ethics and mode of behaviour that is expected of them but it is no longer the hippocratic oath. If you want to look at the oath in detail is also states that no doctor should administer a destructive pessary to any woman. Doctors all over the world administer such a pessary to women who present for abortion yet its part of the Oath that they shouldn't do that.:)

JC 2K3

klizzyr, your issue is with unthankful, moaning people who try to blame others for what was their fault, not with smoking. Would you mind treating an apologetic smoker who accepted responsibility for their actions and acknowledged that they were at fault?

tbh smoking is stupid and an unpleasant habit. It's not a very interesting drug and does damage to your health. However, I'm not going to say people can't smoke, it's their choice.

nesf

kizzyr wrote:

I'm not saying that member of the medical profession should do that I was only putting an idea out there. Many doctors are however immensely frustrated at their patients total assumption that by merely presenting for treatment that they have done their bit and the onus for everything else is on the doctor they are seeing.

I can appreciate that, it's just that it comes with the territory imho. If you work with the public you get to put up with a lot of idiots. It really doesn't matter what your profession is tbh. We all suffer.

Plus at least doctors are well paid for the frustration. Think of the poor 24 hour service station cashiers...

Wibbs

WhiteWashMan wrote:

its a good thing i dont then.

Sorry should have been more clear I wasn't talking about you. You have an opinion but you're not an overreactive whiner, unlike some.

but then again, i have more important things in my life to be worried about than what other people do, but i tend to have a live and let live attitude..

Pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet there.

as far as im concerned, if it doesnt effect me , you can run around naked with lobsters hanging from your testicals for all i give a monkeys

Jesus there's an image to grapple with. Tone it down ffs....

i live in the UK, and the last 4 times i have been to the pub here, ive had to leave after an hour becuase my eyes have become irritated to the point that i find it hard to not continually scratch at them.

Agree with you there. The lack of ventilation is/was crazy in these islands. Maybe it's me but I found in Spanish and Italian bars(not nightclubs though), even though there were people smoking the atmosphere isn't half as noxious. The Spanish smoking ban was a far less OTT one than our own and seems to work.

i know people that hate smoking and yet still persist in doing it. and yet, you threaten them with a smoking ban, and they get all, well, they get all boardsie on it.

I personally could never understand that mindset myself. If you hate it, give up. End of. I mean people can give up. As Mr. Carr(RIP) pointed out nicotine is not as addictive as most think. I actually like a smoke. Weird but true and I'm not kidding myself. I know the symptoms of what kidding myself is every time I look in a mirror. I love the taste and smell of a fine tobacco. You will get people ranting on about how can this be true and he's just deluding himself, but if some people can hand on heart claim that a maccy dees burger actually tastes good then I think I can be allowed my indulgence.:)

its all about 'their rights as smokers', and 'its my life' etc etc etc. but every time they have a cigarette, they tell you they want to quit and they wish they didnt smoe. i fail to see the point in that kind of crap.

Agreed again.

but hey, if poeple want to smoke, go ahead and smoke! but please allow me feel pity for you. and if i start smoking again. i will feel sorry for myself. and i will feel stupid. but at least i will be honest and acknowledge it to myself

Jaysus you're so well balanced. A shining example to us all.:)

The other thing about this whole smoking is evil M'kay that makes no sense is the lack of consideration of the dose-effect ratio.

Every substance or substances are poisonous depending on dose. Even water. Yet when tobacco is brought up the hard science seems to go out the window. The 100 a day full strength roll-up smoker is lumped in with the bloke that has a cigar with his mates once a month. This is plainly a nonsense. If the latter gets a lung disease it will surely be blamed on the cigar, yet the former could happily totter on to old age and the naysayers will say he's just lucky.

Obviously different people have different tolerances, as we see and acknowledge with alcohol. Indeed the benefits of small doses of red wine and other alcoholic drinks are trotted out regularly, yet we know the horrendous damage alcohol does to every level of society. Of the the two drugs there are far more in casualty from alcohol than from nicotine. Why can we not see that nicotine can't have the same benefits as outlined before in small doses? No one is suggesting that draggin on 60 roll-ups a day benefits anyone, but the idea that walking by a smoker in the open air is soooo dangerous to a non smoker is clearly idiocy and I would suggest to those who think this that slapping a nicotine patch on your arm to help the neurons may be of some benefit.

kizzyr

JC 2K3 wrote:

klizzyr, your issue is with unthankful, moaning people who try to blame others for what was their fault, not with smoking. Would you mind treating an apologetic smoker who accepted responsibility for their actions and acknowledged that they were at fault?

tbh smoking is stupid and an unpleasant habit. It's not a very interesting drug and does damage to your health. However, I'm not going to say people can't smoke, it's their choice.

It would at lest be a little better than someone who sits there hacking up a lung, wondering at their misfortune and what they did to deserve the cross they had to bear in life while rooting around in their pocket for their Bensons. :rolleyes: I'm not telling people that they can't smoke, I'm saying that I'm anti smoking in that it is (as you also feel) a horrible habit with no benefits to anyone and the enjoyment people get from having a cigarette doesn't outweigh the consequences.

I can appreciate that, it's just that it comes with the territory imho. If you work with the public you get to put up with a lot of idiots. It really doesn't matter what your profession is tbh. We all suffer.

Plus at least doctors are well paid for the frustration. Think of the poor 24 hour service station cashiers...

They do have a nasty job, not only from smokers but from so many people Nesf. Yes it goes with the territory and yes doctors are earning good money but the nurses and care attendents who also have to work with them aren't and still get the grief.
To be honest banning smoking outright won't make people stop or make any significant number of people stop smoking. Expense and strong social stigma being associated with will be the only thing that will make any inroads IMHO.
anyway I'm off to bed now as I have college tomorrow morning:( damn those postgrads:)

Adam

kizzyr wrote:

Glare away, I think smokers stink, I think its a disgusting habit but if glaring at me because I think that makes you feel better than work away:)


Its not a bullsh1t point of view, I'm amused at how overly defensive smokers are of their habit. Why do you need acceptance by non smokers so badly that you have to be this OTT in your defence


Why should you care for the only body you have as much as you can? because as soon as something goes wrong with it you'll be off down to your GP/ hospital/ consultant of whatever and be asking them to fix you and be pi$$ed off if they can't. I work in a hospital and see this every day. Obese people come in wondering why on earth they have cardiac problems, diabetes, joint problems etc etc and moaning that doctors can't fix them:rolleyes: Answer is in their own hands most of the time, stop putting food into your mouth every waking minute of the day and get some exercise:rolleyes: They was a guy in last week, must have been 30 - 35 max, was hugely overweight, had had diabetes for a year or so, obviously had done SFA about his food intake given a) his size and b) the fact that he was munching down on a Mars bar with a bottle of Coke by his side. He'd cut his foot, hadn't cared for the wound properly and the end result was that he was going to lose the bottom half of his leg and was wondering why and moaning about the (as he termed it) so called medical "experts":rolleyes: So whether religous or not it doesn't matter but I do think you have a body and its up to you to care for it as best you can.

Don't big up your own ego there, I certainly do not need your acceptance. I merely ask that you(the general you) please shag off while I smoke a butt.

Non - smokers really have no basis for argument what so ever. What exactly is your complaint? Do we get in your way? Does you actually seeing a smoker bother you in some way? And sure, you can say we litter, but I don't condone nor defend smokers that dont bin the remains so that's irrelevant.

Nor do I condone your example of the obese man and similar stories that may exist relating to smokers. They too are idiots. I know I'm damaging my body. I don't need you to preach to me that I need to look after it, again, it's my choice, and always will be.

So to conclude, can you clearly and concisely state your personal issues with smokers? Not smoking, smokers.

Adam

smemon wrote:

oh yes, us non-smokers are idiots :rolleyes:

we're the ones who literally burn our money, knowingly do damage to our bodies and ultimately reduce our life span and of those around us :cool:

smoking is becoming like drink driving now, it's not cool, it's not accepted and eventually, it will be completely stamped out and frowned upon. And rightly so.

At least kizzyr is making some effort to make a decent debate of the subject. This post is pure dross imo.

I did not say you were idiots for not smoking, quite the opposite, fair play to you. It's the healthy decision, all the best.

The idiotic part is your unfounded arguments. I know I'm damaging my body, spending money doing it etc. but as I and any smoker will say, it is OUR decision, and we make it knowingly.

As for your last paragraph, wtf?? That makes absolutely no sense. Says who? You? A survey? And you can see into your crystal ball there and tell me some day nobody will smoke?

As I asked kizzyr, what are your issues and basis for argument with smokers?

dr.bollocko

Pathetic interference and pouring judgements on others are merely an indication of the level of pompous self-loving attitudes of these anti-smokers. Its not the message, its the way you deliver it, so pompously, with the weight of rhetoric and ambition to prove yourself as superior to others that delights me.
I often wonder how small your lives must be that this is how you get your kicks.
I view these extreme posts bashing smokers as the posters sitting there, hugging themselves and tapping themselves on the back that they have never succumbed to such a great evil, which clearly makes them cleverer, stronger people than smokers. To feel superior to someone who smokes is a pretty ****ing sad way of getting your kicks lads.
I am all for an informed debate on smoking, with facts expressed on both sides, and each side willing to make concessions and see the other's point. But it looks like that isnt ever going to happen as long as the free range crazies are roaming boards. Thank you so much for your input.
"I am unapologetically anti-smoking, and I think everyone who smokes should have acid poured over their whole family because they are clearly some sub-human species for me to look at and feel better about myself."

Get the hell off of your soapbox, because in the end, you just don't know what you are talking about. You cant see anything from the point of view of a smoker.
Thanks to listening to non-smokers, many smokers have changed the routine of their habit to ensure that nobody who doesnt want smoke around ends up breathing in 2nd hand smoke. We will smoke outside, in our own room, in a separate room. We will gladly move our smoking some place else when it is bothering others. So please move your pants wettingly sad whining and moaning someplace else because your heavily massaged ego is starting to block out the sun over here.
Non-smokers with an agenda have managed to push through a smoking ban, get warnings on every box, (and soon graphics). The anti-tobacco lobby has ads telling us to not smoke absolutely everywhere in every form of media. We cannot smoke in public places or places of work. Guys, your mission is over. We get it. Me, the people you know who smoke, Joe Camel, the Marlboro Man, winston Churchill, the 15 year olds who light up outside school every day. We mother****ing goddamned cocksucking get it. Smoking... bad... Yes. Wrote it down, emailed myself, sent two carrier pigeons, texted my sister, engraved it on my wall, tattooed it on my left nut... Smoking... bad.
I got that message. So please stop sending it.
Thank God for this inciteful piece of info, and thanks also for all non-smokers who care enough to stop and tell you that its bad, because its so ****ing hard to forget.
:rolleyes:
We have accepted this and moved on.

However, I find that Its obvious that the nicest atmosphere in most pubs these days is wherever the smoking section is. I find this anyway. I reckon its where more new acquaintances start than in a non-smoking area because there is no reason for you to mingle with others you dont know.
Look it breaks down to this.
Smokers have a habit they enjoy.
Most people have similar habits. Others, for example, seem to enjoy having their ego boosted by bashing smokers and feeling good about themselves and their fat arses because, hey, they define their life by the things that they dont do, and rewarding themselves for being better than others who decide to do these things that they dont do.

Why dont you give yourself a big hug for not eating fatty food, not drinking, not sleeping with anyone, not staying out past ten, eating right, working out everyday, and liking the smell of your own farts... Or you could remove head from rectum and start living your life.

Getting all hot and bothered about other people smoking. On the internet.
**** sake. What do you think we are gonna infect your room with second hand smoke through your heatsink and CPU fans?

I ****ing wish that I could.

dermo88

I know smoking is bad for me. But I can get them in from Malaysia. I can get them off airline stewards and make savings. I'l screw the Irish Exchequer. I will cheat and lie. I am being forced to break the law by these draconian increases.

There is a nasty puritanical streak in Irish society that condemns drinking, smoking, and any kind of fun. These are the mental decendents of those gombeens that wanted people in the church day after day, the same gombeens that looked, pointed, made rumours, gossipped, and bitched from behind the curtains. Because they were sterile, bitter, dried up, Single Desperate and Ugly. They had nothing better to do with their lives. Remember when they have finished with the fags, booze is next. Watch out, the Health Loons are out in force. Then it will be Petrol, Airline Tickets, VAT on train tickets, VAT on VAT, Service Tax, Breathing Tax, and you'll have 5,000 Euro notes in regular everyday circulation, 100 Euro coins, and you'l wonder where that all came from. It will be down to the avarice, greed and stupidity of big Government and rules, regulations, and ideas, and pure utter waste.

To the Customs and Excise. You know my name. Look it up. I dare you, come and get me. Because I am angry. This is why I left Ireland. I got sick of all these silly poxy laws, and the tut tutting. I'll light up when I want, and I'l give decent strong Malaysian cigarettes that would cut the lungs out of you to all my Irish mates. Its not worth the trouble I will cause you. So do not go near me, or the 1,200 cigarettes I bring from Malaysia on December 22nd, you will be a marked man. Remember, its only tobacco, its not Heroin, its not Crack Cocaine, its just tobacco. So relax.....I've paid for it.

To the Government. Get stuffed. If you want a free market, you better have it for all products.

To the anti smoking lobby. You got your poxy smoking ban. Have some bareback sex with Thai prostitutes and enjoy yourself for once. You have to die sometime, and half of us smokers won't be getting a state pension. Just you look at how much we pay in this country and say "Thanks", and ask for no more than what you have now. Have some appreciation, and remember OUR money supports YOUR health as much as our own. The smoking ban was draconian, and I agree with it. You have enough, and you should get no more for now. You are like fundamentalist Islamic wasters trying to ban Alcohol, and you saw how good that was. Brian Cowen decided to leave well alone, and for once he was being fair.

If you really want to beat smoking, then restrict their sale, the times of sale, the places they can be sold, and leave the price well alone, since you'l onky be putting money into the hands of gangsters and terrorists through price hikes. Price Hikes will only cause a Black Market to flourish. Mind, every "socialist" paradise takes advantage of its location by pricing booze and fags out of existence. Look at Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland. People there don't have the option of hopping across borders to get them cheap. Ireland and the UK cannot do that either. So, you end up with the high tax, high greed Government. And .....its always a myriad of pathetic excuses.

"We have a Budget deficit of 10,5 Million, and a 12% increase in the price of cigarettes will....."
"We have an economic boom, and a surplus of 250 Milion, so we need to restrict demand with a 10% increase in the price of tobacco and alcohol"
"We have to pay for a 10% increase in the Health Service Budget, which will be paid for by a.,..."

Oh get stuffed. I heard all the lies. The air got cleaner, and I am glad of it. My clothes are fresher. My hangovers are nowhere near as bad, and I only smoke 4 on a night out instead of 20. So its good, and I agree with it. But I don't agree with this constant demonisation of smokers. I know it kills, but I'll be quite happy to snuff it around 75, and I'll have had a good life. At least I won'ty be constantly harping on and moaning about other people, because I'l be aware of my own faults, failings and shortcomings. And I wil continue to light up, killing myself, because I really don't want a sterile future with robots working 9am to 6pm, and extra overtime to pay for their 3 Million Euro shoeboxes in deepest dampest dublin. Its becoming Singapore without Sunshine......with higher prices and worse service.

I'l stick to Malaysia, at least I can bribe the cops, and shoot the scum if they burgle me. Theres no skangers either. And I can smoke, drink, gamble, and get laid. I can have gay sex, take e tablets, ketamine, weed, and if I get caught, I can give a cop 20 Euro and send him on his merry way. If we had Patrick Nally situation in Malaysia, he would be given a title, and respect. John Frog Ward would have croaked it properly, and his head pickled and served with Garlic, Ginger and extra Spring Onions the way it should be.

Sell them from pharmacies only. Not Newagents, Petrol Stations.

Ireland is expensive enough as it is.......and people want to increase prices more. Wow. Brian Cowen has a surplus, let him pay down more of the National Debt with it, and prepare for the hard times that are around the corner. Lets figure out how to make things CHEAPER in Ireland. Lets figure out how to reduce the cost of living for once, so the country can stay competitive. Noone has ever tried that before, why not now.

Bloody political correctness, self rightous socialism.....give me a break. I want a machine gun for you guys, but hopefully I'l start coughing my lungs up first. And I know....."I told you so", and when I am in that Hospital Ward, I'll create laughter, till the very end. And I know it wil be my fault. I won't sue the tobacco firms. I will admit that I was a stupid smoker. No more and no less.

Hmmm.....Dunhill....yummy.

Dooom

smemon wrote:

we're the ones who literally burn our money, knowingly do damage to our bodies and ultimately reduce our life span and of those around us :cool:

Y'know if you drink, all that (bar the last bit) applies to you too? And christ on a bike, a breath of two of someone else's smoke isn't going to knock a year off your life.

smemon wrote:

smoking is becoming like drink driving now, it's not cool, it's not accepted and eventually, it will be completely stamped out and frowned upon. And rightly so.

So er...drink driving will eventually be frowned upon? And I suppose, by your logic, drinking alcohol, walking in traffic, eating fast food etc. etc. will all not be cool, not accepted and eventually stamped out and frowned upon?

Cop on tbh.

WhiteWashMan

Wibbs wrote:

Jaysus you're so well balanced. A shining example to us all.:)

dont knock it.

its taken me years to become this well adjusted!


oh, and in the middle of dermo88's rant there, he did pick up on one thing.

since i gave up smoking, my hangovers are nowhere near as bed. god i used to get shockers, but not any more.

WhiteWashMan

nesf wrote:

I can appreciate that, it's just that it comes with the territory imho. If you work with the public you get to put up with a lot of idiots. It really doesn't matter what your profession is tbh. We all suffer.

Plus at least doctors are well paid for the frustration. Think of the poor 24 hour service station cashiers...

get out of my hospital bed ya fúckin sponger!

nesf

WhiteWashMan wrote:

get out of my hospital bed ya fúckin sponger!

Pfft, as if I'd use a public hospital.

Wertz

WhiteWashMan wrote:

since i gave up smoking, my hangovers are nowhere near as bed. god i used to get shockers, but not any more.

QFE

I do tend to smoke a bit when I have a good lot to drink, but hangovers are definitely less severe than when you'd eat 40 fags alongside a feed of pints/shorts...

Wibbs

Nails being hit on the head all over the gaff here. dr.bollocko and others are carrying the hammer.

dermo88 wrote:

There is a nasty puritanical streak in Irish society that condemns drinking, smoking, and any kind of fun. These are the mental decendents of those gombeens that wanted people in the church day after day, the same gombeens that looked, pointed, made rumours, gossipped, and bitched from behind the curtains. Because they were sterile, bitter, dried up, Single Desperate and Ugly. They had nothing better to do with their lives.

That deserves repeating as it has more than a grain of truth to it. You can't blame the church entirely as other catholic countries are not nearly as maudlin, repressive and colourless as ours was(and is). Look at the south Americans or the latins closer to home. Compare an Italian or Spanish religious festival to the homegrown ones where grey people stood in the rain listening to a black clad joker thumpin on about sin while fiddling with their kids. Class altogether. Even today this whiney ironically puritanical vale of tears guff seems to be part of the psyche of too many Irish peeeple, even in the absence of the god botherers.

kizzyr

Mirror wrote:

At least kizzyr is making some effort to make a decent debate of the subject. This post is pure dross imo.

I did not say you were idiots for not smoking, quite the opposite, fair play to you. It's the healthy decision, all the best.

The idiotic part is your unfounded arguments. I know I'm damaging my body, spending money doing it etc. but as I and any smoker will say, it is OUR decision, and we make it knowingly.

As for your last paragraph, wtf?? That makes absolutely no sense. Says who? You? A survey? And you can see into your crystal ball there and tell me some day nobody will smoke?

As I asked kizzyr, what are your issues and basis for argument with smokers?

I suppose that part of my issue with smokers is that I cannot understand why people who have a lot of information available to them that tells them that smoking is deathly bad habit still a) start to smoke and b) carry on smoking. There was a time when it was put out that smoking was not only good for you but increased your life expectancy:eek: so with older smokers I can see how they started in ignorance but thats not the case any more.
Re: the crystal ball gazing, there was a time when people said that a ban on smoking in public places in Ireland would never happen but it did. So if that can happen and more and more people view smoking as a bad thing and so the stigma attached to it grows why is it impossible to see that the more and more people will a) never start to smoke and b) give up.

JC 2K3

kizzyr wrote:

I suppose that part of my issue with smokers is that I cannot understand why people who have a lot of information available to them that tells them that smoking is deathly bad habit still a) start to smoke and b) carry on smoking.

Because they enjoy it?

Personally I don't smoke, I can think of many drugs, some of which I may intend on doing, that are less harmful than tobacco and have better effects, but I do know that I'm willing to damage my body to a certain extent for the fun of it(most of us all do this with alcohol).

Mussolini said it best, "Better to live one day as a lion than one hundred years as a sheep".

Laslo

Mirror wrote:

The amount of idiots, with ridiculously unfounded arguments, in this thread is astounding.

*glares at kizzyr, laslo, smemon, netwhizkid etc.*

Why not pick apart the parts of the arguments that you disagree with and give us a considered response? Instead of behaving like a big-mouthed onanist?

Karoma

Less personal attacks. kthxbye.
-Herr K.

Fighting Irish

smemon wrote:

oh yes, us non-smokers are idiots :rolleyes:

we're the ones who literally burn our money, knowingly do damage to our bodies and ultimately reduce our life span and of those around us :cool:

smoking is becoming like drink driving now, it's not cool, it's not accepted and eventually, it will be completely stamped out and frowned upon. And rightly so.

Smokers enjoy smoking, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow

Plug

My oppinion on smoking is, if you smoke you smoke, if you don't you don't. some people like to spend €1000's of euro on these little things that will kill you after a while, look at it like it's there little hobby:) I'm not a smoker but i don't think they should be banned altogether, next it will be drink:)

Rnger

i think really, really fat people should be banned. they are useless. Lets all us non-fat people get together and sort this out

projectmayhem

Plug wrote:

next it will be drink:)

no it wont, because drink doesn't invite itself into the body of those standing around, whether they're willing or otherwise in the reception of said substance.

senordingdong

projectmayhem wrote:

no it wont, because drink doesn't invite itself into the body of those standing around, whether they're willing or otherwise in the reception of said substance.

Yeah...because alcohol has never cost an innocent person his or her life(!)

Plug

senordingdong wrote:

Yeah...because alcohol has never cost an innocent person his or her like(!)

Well said;)

Fighting Irish

projectmayhem wrote:

no it wont, because drink doesn't invite itself into the body of those standing around, whether they're willing or otherwise in the reception of said substance.

:rolleyes: sure buddy

projectmayhem

senordingdong wrote:

Yeah...because alcohol has never cost an innocent person his or her life(!)

not saying alcohol is fantastic here. just saying it's not quite on a par with smoking. if i'm out and about there's nothing worse then having someone light up next to you. if they were having a drink i wouldn't notice

Fighting Irish wrote:

:rolleyes: sure buddy

have you been in a pub and had some alcohol find its way into your body by no choice of your own? :eek:

senordingdong

And of the person next to you happnes to have had one too many and knocks your block off?
If someone beside you lights up in a place where it is not illeagal to do so, then just have the sense to move on, instead of holding a grudge.

Fighting Irish

projectmayhem wrote:

not saying alcohol is fantastic here. just saying it's not quite on a par with smoking. if i'm out and about there's nothing worse then having someone light up next to you. if they were having a drink i wouldn't notice



have you been in a pub and had some alcohol find its way into your body by no choice of your own? :eek:

No but people who drink alcohol can affect other peoples lives i.e. drunk driving, fighting

nesf

projectmayhem wrote:

not saying alcohol is fantastic here. just saying it's not quite on a par with smoking. if i'm out and about there's nothing worse then having someone light up next to you. if they were having a drink i wouldn't notice

Alcohol puts a much heavier burden on our society than smoking tbh.

DaBreno

Speaking as an ardent non-smoker, Im happy with the current legislation. It was a great day when I could go to the pub and/or nightclub without waking up with the smell of smoke in my clothes and hair. Currently, tis banned from enclosed public spaces and that suits me fine.
Its enough.

Thankfully, we do not live in a "nanny state" where the powers that be decide whats good for us and whats not. Ive seen a packet of ciggies where the warning stated "Smokers can die a slow and agonising death". I think its safe to say that in this day and age, smokers understand the risks of their habit.

IMHO, Its at best puzzling and at worst tragic that they continue but as long as its kept away from me, I aint saying anything. This is from a hardened consumer of pints and kebabs so I wont/cant preach perfect health. As long as nicotine and associated tar is kept out of the lungs and hair of the public, whats the problem? People can still do whatever they desire in their own time and space. Long may it continue. (And consider giving them up )

Dev 17

I'm a smoker and I'm delighted with them banning 10 packs, also increase the price of the 20 packs. It will give me more reason to give up.:D

rogue-entity

Ireland doesnt have Free Will, we certainly dont have unbridled free speech. We have this nanny government telling us what to do and what not to do. First, they ban "soft" drugs like cannibis, dispite the fact that cannibis is less harmful then tobacco or alcohol. They ban harder drugs like opiates and cocaine. They ban hallucinogenics like magic mushrooms. And now they are banning ciggarettes. Slowly and slowly our freedom to do what we want with our own bodies is being taken away from us. Next they will ban all non-healthy foods too :rolleyes:

I am all for banning smoking in public workplaces, after all, passive smoking is a serious health risk. I dont like smoking myself and I generally have a low opinion of smokers too, but they have the right to do what they want with their bodies as long as they are not harming others. I think parents who smoke in front of their children are irresponsible. I still strongly dislike teenagers smoking as well and I feel that the age limit for the sale of ciggerettes should be put up to 21, it would not stop adults from smoking and killing themselves slowly but it should make it a little harder for teenage scumbags to get them from shops. Raising the age for the sale of tobacco products would do more then raising the price IMO.

smemon

Mirror wrote:

I know I'm damaging my body, spending money doing it etc. but as I and any smoker will say, it is OUR decision, and we make it knowingly.

enough said, that statement speaks for itself. Sums up where i'm coming from.

Mirror wrote:

As I asked kizzyr, what are your issues and basis for argument with smokers?

i think it's stupid, only done by young people as they're insecure, lonely or depressed. That or they can't handle peer pressure, aren't educated or just like to have something in their hand which makes them look cool, rather than have nothing and not know what do do with their hands.

they're my issues. Smoking kills, gives you cancer - ffs the dangers are on the packets in black and white. You can't defend smoking or smokers.

Smokers enjoy smoking

well in my experience with smokers, a lot of them don't enjoy it and are doing it for comfort reasons, to lose weight or just don't have the mental strength to give them up.

i enjoy shooting people (in video games). So that makes it ok in real life also.

JC 2K3

DaBreno wrote:

Thankfully, we do not live in a "nanny state" where the powers that be decide whats good for us and whats not.

We do live in a nanny state, what are you talking about?