Smokers getting a rough ride?

JC 2K3

smemon wrote:

i enjoy shooting people (in video games). So that makes it ok in real life also.

You're perfectly entitled to shoot yourself, just not others.

darkflower

smoking got corresponding consequences. So smokers be ready.:D

Black Swan

darkflower wrote:

corresponding consequences

Quotable quotes? Kinda rolls along...

kizzyr

JC 2K3 wrote:

Because they enjoy it?

Personally I don't smoke, I can think of many drugs, some of which I may intend on doing, that are less harmful than tobacco and have better effects, but I do know that I'm willing to damage my body to a certain extent for the fun of it(most of us all do this with alcohol).

Mussolini said it best, "Better to live one day as a lion than one hundred years as a sheep".

Because they enjoy it isn't a good enough argument for me I'm afraid. After the addiction has set in then yes maybe but that very first cigarette doesn't give the ultimate high, in fact many people feel sick after their first one. Many people I know who smoke began in their teens because it was seen to be cool and because their parents warned them not to so they felt obliged to smoke. Teenagers now know that smoking is bad for them yet they still start. That is idiotic.
RE: most of us doing it with alcohol, this isn't true to the same extent. Someone who enjoys a glass or two of wine with their dinner one or two evenings per week aren't causing the same or indeed any harm to themselves.
RE: Mussolini (a stand up chap indeed:rolleyes: ) and his statement, I'm all for living your life and enjoying it but smoking doesn't a lion make. Due to the lung failure the roar through the jungle would be a little on the weak side don't you think:)

cornbb

Your points are valid kizzyr but the problem faced by smokers is that they feel their personal freedom is being threatened. Its not a question of whether the argument is good enough for you. I've never met you, never smoked in your prescence, yet you've already judged me.

Its fair enough for a nonsmoker to complain about smoke being blown in their face or the smell, but thats all there is to it really isn't it? Apart from that, its very condescending to be judged over a personal habit. Live and let live, judge not lest ye be judged, etc.

JC 2K3

kizzyr wrote:

Because they enjoy it isn't a good enough argument for me I'm afraid. After the addiction has set in then yes maybe but that very first cigarette doesn't give the ultimate high, in fact many people feel sick after their first one. Many people I know who smoke began in their teens because it was seen to be cool and because their parents warned them not to so they felt obliged to smoke. Teenagers now know that smoking is bad for them yet they still start. That is idiotic.

Sure, so have campaigns against it etc. but highering the price and banning packs of 10 is stupid and will have no effect. It's slowly becoming not cool anyway, for example very few guys my age I know smoke, it's mainly girls, a lot of them idiotically use it as an appetite supressant, but of those who simply started because they were in a minority group of friends who thought it was "cool", most want to give it up and are trying.

kizzyr wrote:

RE: most of us doing it with alcohol, this isn't true to the same extent. Someone who enjoys a glass or two of wine with their dinner one or two evenings per week aren't causing the same or indeed any harm to themselves.

Same can be said for social smokers who only have the occasional smoke, but generally people drink alcohol to excess as much as smokers smoke to excess.

kizzyr wrote:

RE: Mussolini (a stand up chap indeed:rolleyes: ) and his statement, I'm all for living your life and enjoying it but smoking doesn't a lion make. Due to the lung failure the roar through the jungle would be a little on the weak side don't you think:)

:rolleyes:

Samba

Maybe they will introduce higher taxes on Fast Food when they are done with the smoking bandwagon.

I hope all you non-smokers die choking on a battered sausage.

Remember kids, smoking forum is open for business Just ask...

cornbb

Papa Smut wrote:

Remember kids, smoking forum is open for business Just ask...

I could go for some smoking forum membership...

Backtoblack

I smoked 20+ a day for over 10 years.. I'm 30 now..
I gave them up on the last day of June 2005 -
It was the best thing I have ever done.

I used to wake up in the middle of the night and reach for a cigarette, smoke it and go back to sleep. I really was a down and out addict.

I know you've heard it before, but If i can give them up - ANYONE CAN!

Today, I can''t stand the things - I hate hate hate the smell of them, and the very notion of them - but i'm sure if i light one tomorow, i could get just as hooked as I used to be.

I used to be like the smokers on this thread now "they're company" "I want to smoke", I like smoking, i want to smoke etc! Yeah whatever!!!!!
I mean please -- you want to spend 50 quid a week on a pathetic addiction that makes your clothes smell, your breath stink and your chances of cancer double or some such horrible statistic, its your choice!
I hope they do put the price of them up and up and up - In an ideal world, they would not exist!
Whatever about drink - at least one or two drinks can relax a person or have some positive effect (I don't drink so don't bother saying it's one rule for cigs and another rule for alchohol - clearly alchohol can have grave results too - but back to the start of the sentencee), cigarettes do not have any positive effects - what is the f**king point??
Smokers getting a rough ride? Oh stop feeling so sorry for yourselves and get a bit of sense!

Oh my gosh, rant over - have to get some food, i'm starving!!

:rolleyes:

OliviaM

that's good news. might help cut the smoking population in half.;)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

heaven forbid any one of your vices would be villified by public opinion some day.

my smoking is doing far less damage to the planet than your car(s). death to motorists!

Wibbs

Backtoblack wrote:

I smoked 20+ a day for over 10 years.. I'm 30 now..
I gave them up on the last day of June 2005 -
It was the best thing I have ever done.

I used to wake up in the middle of the night and reach for a cigarette, smoke it and go back to sleep. I really was a down and out addict.

Fair play to you.

Today, I can''t stand the things - I hate hate hate the smell of them, and the very notion of them - but i'm sure if i light one tomorow, i could get just as hooked as I used to be.

Ever heard of willpower?

I used to be like the smokers on this thread now "they're company" "I want to smoke", I like smoking, i want to smoke etc! Yeah whatever!!!!!

The beginnings of wisdom start with the notion that not everybody shares your perceptions. As for company? What? My best friends a cigar? There's no greater moral guardian than an ex whore

I mean please -- you want to spend 50 quid a week on a pathetic addiction that makes your clothes smell, your breath stink and your chances of cancer double or some such horrible statistic,

You could say the exact same thing for someone with a Happy meal addiction. Tax the golden arches I say....

its your choice!

Yes it is.

(I don't drink so don't bother saying it's one rule for cigs and another rule for alchohol - clearly alchohol can have grave results too - but back to the start of the sentencee),

No drink or ciggies? Have you any vices?

cigarettes do not have any positive effects - what is the f**king point??

Actually nicotine may have some positive effects. Generally non inhaling pipe smokers tend to live longer than non smokers in many stats collected on the topic.

Smokers getting a rough ride? Oh stop feeling so sorry for yourselves and get a bit of sense!

I feel fine myself. It's some who appear to feel sorry for me.

Oh my gosh, rant over - have to get some food, i'm starving!!

Hope you're chompin down on some organic, leafy greens now, followed by a brisk walk. No sense shortening your life or being a fat git. Those people should be banned/taxed you know. Shortening their lives like that. Disgraceful altogether. Harrumph.

arseagon

Papa Smut wrote:

Remember kids, smoking forum is open for business Just ask...

And how does one get access to this wonderful sounding place?

A gentle pm in my direction

senordingdong

smemon wrote:

well in my experience with smokers, a lot of them don't enjoy it and are doing it for comfort reasons, to lose weight or just don't have the mental strength to give them up.

In that case they are idiots. They started for the wrong reasons and have no-one but themselves to blame.
Secondly, they should be taking repsonsibility for their own actions and desires by stopping themselves, not sitting around with their thumbs up their holes waiting for the government to take some 'life changing' action to protect them from themselves.

Long live the idiot.

Dar

Starting to smoke is a complete act of stupidity, but you don't need to be an idiot to do something stupid.

Not stopping smoking in not an act of stupidity, it's a sympton of addiction. Us smokers, like other addicts, become masters of doublethink. We know smoking is slowly killing us, we know it's a waste of money, and we know we hate it. We also know we could get knocked down by a bus, we know it's a source of enjoyment worth the money we spend on it, and we know we love it. Bit of a paradox no?

Addiction can do wonderful things to a person's ability to reason logically. Non-smokers look on in bemusement and wonder why in the name of god people would actually spend 6.50 a day to slowly poison themselves. It doesn't make any sense, so they come to a fairly obvious conclusion: smokers are stupid. It's a very obvious answer, and it's also completely wrong.

As far as this increase goes, anyway who actually thinks it is actually intended to persuade smokers to stop is living with their head in the clouds. You see us smokers are addicts. We'll bitch to high heaven about discrimination, start talking about boycotts or protests and then we'll shut up and pay the extra anyway. We won't stop.

Increasing the tax on cigarettes is nothing more than a cynical move to exploit addicts. If you want to stop people smoking then ban it. It won't stop everyone but it'll be more effective than raising prices or banning 10 boxes. But of course the government would then have to deal with a loss of over €1b in annual excise income.

cornbb

Well said Dar

kizzyr

JC 2K3 wrote:

Sure, so have campaigns against it etc. but highering the price and banning packs of 10 is stupid and will have no effect. It's slowly becoming not cool anyway, for example very few guys my age I know smoke, it's mainly girls, a lot of them idiotically use it as an appetite supressant, but of those who simply started because they were in a minority group of friends who thought it was "cool", most want to give it up and are trying.


Same can be said for social smokers who only have the occasional smoke, but generally people drink alcohol to excess as much as smokers smoke to excess.


:rolleyes:

Smoking is addictive drinking alcohol needent be.
Re: the wonderful roll eyes gesture, thats exactly what I was getting at when you use Mussolini as an example of someone people should aspire to be like. :rolleyes:
Whatever way you look at it I think smoking is not only an idiotic thing to persue but also a habit that makes the individual doing it stink, extremely unattractive with their yellowed teeth, grey complexions, prematurely aged skin, stained fingertips, a disgusting manner of coughing and spewing up phlegm while gasping for air and to top it all a huge hole in their bank balance.........and all because they "enjoy" it. This "enjoyment" and living "like a lion" supposedly makes it all worthwhile, maybe by not smoking me and my sheep like life are really missing out.
This is an argument that will never be won, those who don't smoke will never really and truly see the point of those who do and vice versa

cornbb

kizzyr wrote:

a habit that makes the individual doing it stink, extremely unattractive with their yellowed teeth, grey complexions, prematurely aged skin, stained fingertips, a disgusting manner of coughing and spewing up phlegm while gasping for air

...

those who don't smoke will never really and truly see the point of those who do and vice versa

Exactly - so why don't all the militant anti smokers here shut the **** up, mind your own business and stop spewing out the same "filthy", "stinky" rhetoric? I happen to have beautiful white teeth, exemplary oral hygiene and a fit pair of lungs from attending the gym 3-4 times a week, yet you lot still love to come back here and insult me. I'm ****ing sick of it. I don't know what vices or "disgusting habits" you lot have but if I did I'd keep my opinions of them to myself :mad:

Samba

Oh my gosh, rant over - have to get some food, i'm starving!!

Try a battered sausage

JC 2K3

kizzyr wrote:

Smoking is addictive drinking alcohol needent be.

I know quite a few people who aren't addicted to smoking, but they will occasionally light up when out at a party.

kizzyr wrote:

Re: the wonderful roll eyes gesture, thats exactly what I was getting at when you use Mussolini as an example of someone people should aspire to be like. :rolleyes:

I never said people should aspire to be like Mussolini, I simply used a famous quote of his that fitted in the context of my point, that it's better to die younger, but have an enjoyable life, than to live older, but not have such an enjoyable life.

Adolf Hitler banned smoking in public places, do you think people should aspire to be like him?

kizzyr wrote:

Whatever way you look at it I think smoking is not only an idiotic thing to persue but also a habit that makes the individual doing it stink, extremely unattractive with their yellowed teeth, grey complexions, prematurely aged skin, stained fingertips, a disgusting manner of coughing and spewing up phlegm while gasping for air and to top it all a huge hole in their bank balance.........and all because they "enjoy" it. This "enjoyment" and living "like a lion" supposedly makes it all worthwhile, maybe by not smoking me and my sheep like life are really missing out.

Your opinion of it is fine, I share similar sentiments towards the act of smoking, but not to those who do it. It's their choice, why should non-smokers make life harder for them?

kizzyr wrote:

This is an argument that will never be won, those who don't smoke will never really and truly see the point of those who do and vice versa

Exactly, so why should one side get to impose their ignorant agenda on the other? Nothing wrong with discouraging it verbally, but price hikes etc. are unfair. They already pay more tax than any of us as it is.

Adam

*pats cornbb and JC 2K3 on back*

*resigns to the fact that kizzyr clearly can't put an argument together, but is too stubborn to accept the overwhelminging evidence proving such, and decides to stop wasting time trying to enlighten her*

Backtoblack

Wibbs wrote:

Fair play to you.

Ever heard of willpower?

The beginnings of wisdom start with the notion that not everybody shares your perceptions. As for company? What? My best friends a cigar? There's no greater moral guardian than an ex whore
You could say the exact same thing for someone with a Happy meal addiction. Tax the golden arches I say....Yes it is.

No drink or ciggies? Have you any vices? Actually nicotine may have some positive effects. Generally non inhaling pipe smokers tend to live longer than non smokers in many stats collected on the topic.
I feel fine myself. It's some who appear to feel sorry for me.
Hope you're chompin down on some organic, leafy greens now, followed by a brisk walk. No sense shortening your life or being a fat git. Those people should be banned/taxed you know. Shortening their lives like that. Disgraceful altogether. Harrumph.

harty har! Don't you worry about me, I went for an 8k run after my pescetarian dinner.
Non-inhaling pipe smokers living longer than non-smokers? What sort of a stat or point is that? a NON-Inhaling Pipe smokers? Oh Rolls eyes!!! :rolleyes:
You do have a good point on the Golden Arches - Tax them to f**k I say - McMurders and that evil, redhaired clown should be f**ked into jail with a number of other corporate psychos!

Backtoblack

Samba wrote:

Try a battered sausage

May you choke on one of your homegrown cigars. :rolleyes:

Wibbs

Backtoblack wrote:

Non-inhaling pipe smokers living longer than non-smokers? What sort of a stat or point is that? a NON-Inhaling Pipe smokers? Oh Rolls eyes!!! :rolleyes:

FYI Pipe smokers(and most cigar smokers) generally don't inhale.

Backtoblack

Wibbs wrote:

FYI Pipe smokers(and most cigar smokers) generally don't inhale.

fYi, I do know that. My point was that exactly though - its the inhaling that does the harm naturally enough.. so comparing that non-inhaling smokers to non-smokers really isn't much of a comparison as such..
Non-inhaling smokers aren't very representative of inhaling smokers, think you not?

kizzyr

Mirror wrote:

*pats cornbb and JC 2K3 on back*

*resigns to the fact that kizzyr clearly can't put an argument together, but is too stubborn to accept the overwhelminging evidence proving such, and decides to stop wasting time trying to enlighten her*

I have put my argument together many times. There is no overwhelming evidence to prove that I haven't, and I don't think convincing me that smoking isn't bad will in any way enlighten my life.
I have said over and over how and why I find smoking disgusting. I had expressed amazement that with the knowledge as to the harm smoking can cause still people as foolish enough to start. I have also said that yes it is your chocie as an individual if you chose to start down that road but given that it does cause an greater strain on the health service (not it alone which I have also acknowledged) and for anyone who has lost a relative to a cancer induced by smoking will tell you it causes huge amounts of hurt and pain to their family. As for the arguments being given "its my choice" and " I enjoy it" well I just hope its worth it in the long run, although I doubt it will be.
I haven't been rude or personally offensive to anyone here who smokes or has defended smoking so I would thank you for extending the same courtesy to me.

rubadub

dermo88 wrote:

Remember when they have finished with the fags, booze is next.

No I reckon the next drug they will actually go to the bother of banning will be salvia divinorum. They got rid of st. johns wort, then mushrooms. But mammy, daddy & bertie dont use mushrooms or salvia so thats fine. They might have used st johns wort but now they are forced to pay a doctor to get a prescription to pay for overpriced pharmaceuticals.

How do people figure high taxation is not a deterrent is beyond me, do they fines also do not deter ANY people at all? from doing things like speeding or not paying a tv licence?

"I have the right to destroy my body any way I want, but heroin & crack should still be illegal, cos mammy n de man on de telly sez they are used by bold boys"

cornbb

kizzyr wrote:

I have put my argument together many times. There is no overwhelming evidence to prove that I haven't, and I don't think convincing me that smoking isn't bad will in any way enlighten my life.

There's a difference between an argument and a stubborn declaration of hatred for smoking.

I haven't been rude or personally offensive to anyone here who smokes or has defended smoking

No, you've just made insulting assumptions about us en masse.

kizzyr

cornbb wrote:

There's a difference between an argument and a stubborn declaration of hatred for smoking.



No, you've just made insulting assumptions about us en masse.

You're being unfair. I haven't just stated "I hate Smoking" hundreds and hundreds of times and left it at that. I've given my reasons why I dislike it and think it a bad thing. That to me is an argument rather than stubborn decleration only.
Re: the insulting assumptions........they aren't assumptions, smokers do smell badly, they do age early, their skin does look greyer than that of a non smoker and as for the teeth not being yellow.....well a good dentist can work wonders. So they aren't assumptions that are facts, unpleasent maybe but if you don't like them you know what you can do.......stop smoking and then they'll go away.

Adam

No, in light of the debating style of this thread, you have no real argument, as was my point earlier. When non-smokers get on to the topic of smoking they rarely have anything to say other than "i dont like it and you all smell bad..."

Regarding your previous post, I am 20, I don't smell, my fingers are not yellow, my skin is not grey, and I don't think I look like I'm aging (in fact if i was to walk in to a pub or two in Dublin I'd probably still get asked for ID) despite smoking for the last 6 years. I also lost my grandmother partially due to her smoking.

Also, we are not trying to convince you that smoking isn't bad, and never have, it is you who is trying to convince us that it is, which we already know.

Lastly, there was no personal insult intended in any of my posts, and I apologise if I caused offence, it was not my intention.

rubadub

Mirror wrote:

When non-smokers get on to the topic of smoking they rarely have anything to say other than "i dont like it and you all smell bad...".

And the smokers rarely have much to say other than "I like it, and don't give a fuk if you don't,"
The OP was moaning about the price going up (the price of most products rises) and that packs of 10 were being banned. A lot of people were saying price has no impact so the fact they have to buy 20 should not bother anybody, infact the increase shouldnt bother most.

I still find it amazing that they are still legal, amazing that it was ever tolerated to burn plant matter in enclosed spaces to the point that it made people cough. I am also amazed at the lack of campaigining for the legalisation of other highly addicitive drugs when some consider it their god given right to burn plant matter and inhale the most addicitive drug known in the presence of others who object to it.

Glue sniffing is still prefectly legal, if somebody went into the local of some of these self righteous smokers I doubt they would tolerate the stink and say "sure its legal, and its his choice, if we don't like the smell we should have stayed home" as they leave with their clothes stinking and eyes red from glue fumes.

Dar

rubadub wrote:

I still find it amazing that they are still legal

I think you'll find theres about 1 billion reasons that cigarettes are still legal.

Adam

rubadub wrote:

And the smokers rarely have much to say other than "I like it, and don't give a fuk if you don't,"
The OP was moaning about the price going up (the price of most products rises) and that packs of 10 were being banned. A lot of people were saying price has no impact so the fact they have to buy 20 should not bother anybody, infact the increase shouldnt bother most.

I still find it amazing that they are still legal, amazing that it was ever tolerated to burn plant matter in enclosed spaces to the point that it made people cough. I am also amazed at the lack of campaigining for the legalisation of other highly addicitive drugs when some consider it their god given right to burn plant matter and inhale the most addicitive drug known in the presence of others who object to it.

Glue sniffing is still prefectly legal, if somebody went into the local of some of these self righteous smokers I doubt they would tolerate the stink and say "sure its legal, and its his choice, if we don't like the smell we should have stayed home" as they leave with their clothes stinking and eyes red from glue fumes.

I fail to see the point of your post. This thread was originally about the price of cigarettes, that's true, but at what point did it become ok for the people that don't buy them to turn the thread into a "you all smell and should be oppressed in such a way that you can no longer smoke ANYWHERE!" debate?

And most of your argument falls apart seeing as how we can no longer smoke in public places, what rock have you been hiding under? Or did you choose to ignore that for the sake of your argument?

Dutchology

Mirror wrote:

No, in light of the debating style of this thread, you have no real argument, as was my point earlier. When non-smokers get on to the topic of smoking they rarely have anything to say other than "i dont like it and you all smell bad..."

- petty quibbles...

Regarding your previous post, I am 20, I don't smell, my fingers are not yellow, my skin is not grey, and I don't think I look like I'm aging (in fact if i was to walk in to a pub or two in Dublin I'd probably still get asked for ID) despite smoking for the last 6 years.

*agrees wholeheartedly* - you smell good... and you're as youthful as you were when I first met you!

Also, we are not trying to convince you that smoking isn't bad, and never have, it is you who is trying to convince us that it is, which we already know.

-*the smoking asthmatic speaks*...We all know that smoking is bad for us, we have all seen the effects it can have, we are not ignorant to the dangers.... I am of reasonable intelligence, and I know I should not be smoking, however I enjoy it, and until such time that I wish to quit, I won't.

Lastly, there was no personal insult intended in any of my posts, and I apologise if I caused offence, it was not my intention.

*goes outside for a cigarette*

cornbb

kizzyr wrote:

You're being unfair. I haven't just stated "I hate Smoking" hundreds and hundreds of times and left it at that. I've given my reasons why I dislike it and think it a bad thing. That to me is an argument rather than stubborn decleration only.
Re: the insulting assumptions........they aren't assumptions, smokers do smell badly, they do age early, their skin does look greyer than that of a non smoker and as for the teeth not being yellow.....well a good dentist can work wonders. So they aren't assumptions that are facts, unpleasent maybe but if you don't like them you know what you can do.......stop smoking and then they'll go away.

You haven't made a single argument!! You've come along here on a high, high horse and done the following:

1) Patronised smokers about the health dangers. We know!
2) Made insulting and presumptuous statements about our appearance and personal hygiene. You don't know me, I could make cheap shots about your grammar and/or intelligence but I won't
3) Generally added nothing to the discussion except repeat the same tired old opinionated rhetoric.

I've posted pretty much the same points about your posts in this thread before. I'm tired of listening to you repeat yourself now.

Fraggle Rocks

kizzyr wrote:

I have put my argument together many times. There is no overwhelming evidence to prove that I haven't, and I don't think convincing me that smoking isn't bad will in any way enlighten my life.
I have said over and over how and why I find smoking disgusting. I had expressed amazement that with the knowledge as to the harm smoking can cause still people as foolish enough to start. I have also said that yes it is your chocie as an individual if you chose to start down that road but given that it does cause an greater strain on the health service (not it alone which I have also acknowledged) and for anyone who has lost a relative to a cancer induced by smoking will tell you it causes huge amounts of hurt and pain to their family. As for the arguments being given "its my choice" and " I enjoy it" well I just hope its worth it in the long run, although I doubt it will be.
I haven't been rude or personally offensive to anyone here who smokes or has defended smoking so I would thank you for extending the same courtesy to me.

Well i reckon with amount of tax put on a box of fags, most smokers are well paid up by the time they need medical help. Hell, they'll probably be paying for your treatment when you're old and infirm and dying with as little dignity as the smokers!

rubadub

Mirror wrote:

I fail to see the point of your post. This thread was originally about the price of cigarettes, that's true, but at what point did it become ok for the people that don't buy them to turn the thread into a "you all smell and should be oppressed in such a way that you can no longer smoke ANYWHERE!" debate?

The point of my post is to make the self righteous smokers step back and realise how lucky they have it, that they are allowed to smoke their choice of drug at all, yet many would object to others enjoying their drug EVEN if it did not harm them (the smoker not the other drug user).

Mirror wrote:

And most of your argument falls apart seeing as how we can no longer smoke in public places, what rock have you been hiding under? Or did you choose to ignore that for the sake of your argument?

What? where did I say you could still smoke in public places? (though many do still smoke illegally in so called "beer gardens")

Or did you just imagine up this for the sake of your argument?

It IS still legal to sniff glue in a pub but I expect many of the smokers who moan on about civil liberties would not like people sniffing glue in their local.

Adam

rubadub wrote:

1. The point of my post is to make the self righteous smokers step back and realise how lucky they have it, that they are allowed to smoke their choice of drug at all, yet many would object to others enjoying their drug EVEN if it did not harm them (the smoker not the other drug user).

2. It IS still legal to sniff glue in a pub but I expect many of the smokers who moan on about civil liberties would not like people sniffing glue in their local.

1. It has nothing to do with luck. It is a legal drug, as are many. Are people who receive morphine for pain lucky?

2. You're probably right, we would kick up a fuss. My point was, you can't use that as an argument because you non-smokers kicked up a fuss and as such we are not allowed smoke in the pubs! Jeez.

Dutchology

Fraggle Rocks wrote:

Well i reckon with amount of tax put on a box of fags, most smokers are well paid up by the time they need medical help. Hell, they'll probably be paying for your treatment when you're old and infirm and dying with as little dignity as the smokers!

excellent - round of applause Fraggle Rocks!

rubadub

Mirror wrote:

1. It has nothing to do with luck. It is a legal drug, as are many.

The majority of recreationally used drugs are illegal. Most in the medical profession would regard tobacco smoking to be one of the most harmful recreational drugs out there. So yeah I do think it is luck, and strange, the fact that it is still legal. A single person got drunk and took a threshold amount of magic mushrooms, killed himself and they were banned overnight! by the same logic it is extremely lucky it has not been banned after causing millions of deaths over the years.

Mirror wrote:

1. Are people who receive morphine for pain lucky?

Yes, a lot of doctors are reluctant to prescribe morphine so I do think people are lucky to get prescribed it, my own father was denied it and was in extreme pain after an operation recently, having to make do with alternatives which he considers to have worse side effects (he works in the pharmaceutical industry). They are lucky it is still legal after all the bad press its analogue drug, diamorphine, gets.

If people were allowed go into a newsagent, buy morphine, then head to a pub and smoke it in a crack pipe under a nice heater out the back, then yes I would think they are lucky. Others take their drug of choice in their own home in fear of the law.

Mirror wrote:

2. You're probably right, we would kick up a fuss. My point was, you can't use that as an argument because you non-smokers kicked up a fuss and as such we are not allowed smoke in the pubs! Jeez.

At the time most polls showed the majority of smokers were in support of the ban. Most appear to be considerate of others wishes and do not inflict their habit on others, just like most drunks are considerate enough not to spill, puke or piss their drug all over peoples clothes.

Dutchology

most drunks are considerate enough not to spill, puke or piss their drug all over peoples clothes

I cannot help but say - oh no they are not - hands up those of you who have been unfortunate enough to have one drunk or another "spill, puke or piss their drug" all over your clothes *puts hand in the air*

Anyway, this thread is not about glue sniffers, alcoholics or morphine. It is about cigarettes. The ones that WE smoke. Not in "your" space, but outside in the cold. I probably wouldn't end up in hospital with chest infections if I didn't have to stand in the rain to enjoy my cigarettes! We stay out of the way, "shunned" by society, so leave us be. Allow us to kill ourselves in peace, and eventually rest in peace..... *sighs audibly and puts on the winter woollies to have another smoke*

Adam

rubadub wrote:

The majority of recreationally used drugs are illegal. Most in the medical profession would regard tobacco smoking to be one of the most harmful recreational drugs out there. So yeah I do think it is luck, and strange, the fact that it is still legal. A single person got drunk and took a threshold amount of magic mushrooms, killed himself and they were banned overnight! by the same logic it is extremely lucky it has not been banned after causing millions of deaths over the years.


Yes, a lot of doctors are reluctant to prescribe morphine so I do think people are lucky to get prescribed it, my own father was denied it and was in extreme pain after an operation recently, having to make do with alternatives which he considers to have worse side effects (he works in the pharmaceutical industry). They are lucky it is still legal after all the bad press its analogue drug, diamorphine, gets.

If people were allowed go into a newsagent, buy morphine, then head to a pub and smoke it in a crack pipe under a nice heater out the back, then yes I would think they are lucky. Others take their drug of choice in their own home in fear of the law.



At the time most polls showed the majority of smokers were in support of the ban. Most appear to be considerate of others wishes and do not inflict their habit on others, just like most drunks are considerate enough not to spill, puke or piss their drug all over peoples clothes.

Smoking does not have and side effects associated with hallucinogenic drugs such as magic mushrooms, does not impair your judgement as alcohol does etc. etc. etc.

Other drugs are banned not for the harm they cause to the user, but for the potential harm which can be caused to others around the user, or harm caused to the user due to an unclear thought pattern, doing things that he/she would not do under normal circumstances.

On top of which, cigarettes are still around and always will be I believe because of the amount of revenue generated from the taxes placed upon them. I can't find any figures but I'm sure they are more than notably large!

I too am in support of the ban, I like to enjoy a cigarette when I want one, rather than breathing in the smoke every minute I'm in the pub. But I don't agree with the last part of the statement, since when are drunks known for their consideration? If anything, that point supports my earlier argument, that drinking impairs your judgement and you are likely to get pissed/puked on by a drunk!

Adam

Dutchology wrote:

I cannot help but say - oh no they are not - hands up those of you who have been unfortunate enough to have one drunk or another "spill, puke or piss their drug" all over your clothes *puts hand in the air*

Anyway, this thread is not about glue sniffers, alcoholics or morphine. It is about cigarettes. The ones that WE smoke. Not in "your" space, but outside in the cold. I probably wouldn't end up in hospital with chest infections if I didn't have to stand in the rain to enjoy my cigarettes! We stay out of the way, "shunned" by society, so leave us be. Allow us to kill ourselves in peace, and eventually rest in peace..... *sighs audibly and puts on the winter woollies to have another smoke*

In light of the debate, I have to argue that. You would be less likely again to end up in hospital if you didn't smoke, as smoking lowers your immune systems defenses considerably. In other words, "put up and shut up", or just quit! It's only fair that we are out of the building, and it's up to us whether we want to stand outside to continue the habit.

Dutchology

Mirror wrote:

In light of the debate, I have to argue that. You would be less likely again to end up in hospital if you didn't smoke, as smoking lowers your immune systems defenses considerably. In other words, "put up and shut up", or just quit! It's only fair that we are out of the building, and it's up to us whether we want to stand outside to continue the habit.

True, true. I retract that particular part of the statement, as I do agree that we are entitled to pollute our own lungs, but not those of the non-smokers *slaps self on wrist for writing without thinking*, I was on a rant... still standing by the R.I.P...

rubadub

Dutchology wrote:

I cannot help but say - oh no they are not - hands up those of you who have been unfortunate enough to have one drunk or another "spill, puke or piss their drug" all over your clothes *puts hand in the air*

So you are saying "no", as in no, most drunk people DO actually piss, spill or puke their booze on you? please let me know your local so I can avoid it.

Mirror wrote:

that drinking impairs your judgement and you are likely to get pissed/puked on by a drunk!

more likely than 50/50, i.e. most? jesus lads, you have it rough, I have never been pissed or puked on, I have had drinks spilled that needed my clothes changed once or twice in my life, but almost every time I went to a smoky pub I needed to do that.

I think the majority (i.e. most) of the people who do get pissed or smoke are consideriate and do not spill drink on others or blow smoke in their face thinking it is their god given right to do so.

Dutchology wrote:

Anyway, this thread is not about glue sniffers, alcoholics or morphine. It is about cigarettes.

hmmm I'll take that to mean you wouldnt like the glue sniffer in your local,

Dutchology wrote:

Allow us to kill ourselves in peace, and eventually rest in peace..... *sighs audibly and puts on the winter woollies to have another smoke*

Exactly, I would love to be able to kill myself by smoking drugs without fear of arrest. I certainly wouldnt be going around sighing when they increase the price of them (like they do with pretty much everything, simple inflation), and I wouldnt be moaning about not being let burn my plant of choice in an enclosed public place either.

Mirror wrote:

Smoking does not have and side effects associated with hallucinogenic drugs such as magic mushrooms, does not impair your judgement as alcohol does etc. etc. etc.

Tobacco can in fact be hallucinogenic, I have seen people falling over and puking from smoking tobacco, native americans took it to excess. But most people using it don't, makes me wonder why they bother with such an apparently useless drug if you are not even getting high off it? oh yeah, the "enjoyment" i.e. staving off the withdrawl symptoms. Fair enough...

Mirror wrote:

Other drugs are banned not for the harm they cause to the user,

potential for harm to oneself is the main reason most drugs are not allowed into public use, why do you think there are so many drug trials carried out on all pharmaceuticals?

Mirror wrote:

but for the potential harm which can be caused to others around the user,

e.g. passive smoking... I wouldnt have as much of a problem with tobacco if people used it in another way, i.e. chewing it. I would still be upset at the hypocritical laws in place.

Mirror wrote:

harm caused to the user due to an unclear thought pattern, doing things that he/she would not do under normal circumstances.

Many drugs have the potential for this, people can get hallucinations from OTC cough medicine and hayfever tablets, at least these do have sound medical uses too, what is the excuse for tobacco? (on which you can also get into an intoxicated state)

FranknFurter

rubadub wrote:

..... at least these do have sound medical uses too, what is the excuse for tobacco? (on which you can also get into an intoxicated state)

Maintaining whats left of my sanity, counters some of the side-effects of my meds, and helps me to relax, thats the medical use it has for me.
Somones bound to say "but its a stimulant not a relaxant" .... well for me it relaxes me, I enjoy it and have for 19 years.

And on the drink spillage thing, as a wheelchair user, when I used to go to pubs and clubs I was regularly having drinks spilled on me as drunks would be making their way back from the bar, not because I was in anyones way, purely because they were drunk. :mad:
I have yet to have somone use my head as an ashtray, although somone *almost* did once, and guess what, she was DRUNK.

B

senordingdong

Backtoblack wrote:

You do have a good point on the Golden Arches - Tax them to f**k I say - McMurders and that evil, redhaired clown should be f**ked into jail with a number of other corporate psychos!

No they shouldn't.
When are people going to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions?

Mirror

Mirror wrote:

In light of the debate, I have to argue that. You would be less likely again to end up in hospital if you didn't smoke, as smoking lowers your immune systems defenses considerably. In other words, "put up and shut up", or just quit! It's only fair that we are out of the building, and it's up to us whether we want to stand outside to continue the habit.

Perfect sense.
Smokers are deluded when it comes to the real cost to their health, their wellbeing and their wallet. And I know this to be true because I was deluded too when I smoked.
You could whack 20 quid on to the price of a packet of fags and smokers will still buy ’em. I would've smoked old rope when I was addicted.