Drafty Recessed Lighting - Beware of the Cold

gibbers

After installing many recessed lights in my new home (40+), I am dismayed at the fact that on these cold windy evenings, each of the lights is letting in large amounts of cold air from the attic space above them. I am told that I cannot cover the lights in the attic because they could become a fire hazard if they come in contact with insulation ... so.... I am looking for help please.

The manufacturer has thus far chose to ignore my queries on this problem.

These are standard recessed light fittings bought from a local electrical supplier.

Has anyone had a similar experience and come up with a solution?

Qwerty?

I may have come up with a solution, but haven't got around to trying it out yet. What i am going to do is make a box out of xtratherm rigid insulation and place them over each light, I only have 8 to do. I'm thinking of 400mm square, should be enough to prevent it becoming a fire hazard, but will experiment first. I asume yours are swivel recessed lights too, they do let a fair amount of a draught down from the attic

Wertz

So is the draught coming in through the gap around the fitting or actually through the fitting itself?

If it's the former, you could try sealing that small gap with some masking tape, a tube of decorater's caulk, a damp rag and a lot of patience.
Mask up each downlighter, run a thin bead of caulk around the outside, sealing the gap, then wipe the excess clean with the damp rag...remove the tape directly afterward.
Doing 40 is going to be a pain in the arse, but it won't pose a fire hazard.
Alternatively you could have the attic space properly sealed, although I'd imagine that to be both costly and ill advised (ventilation purposes)

You should be able to get "fire hoods" that fit over the fittings in the attic and then lay the insulation on top, or buy some terracotta flower pots and use these instead.

When fitting it use some sealant to stop draughts.

As long as there is a sufficient gap between the bulbs and the insulation, then there should be no problem with overheating in the fitting.

Beach Head

Fire hoods are very expensive, last time I priced them about € 20 per fitting.

If the fittings are in the top floor ceiling, why not board over them? Take out necessary insulation around fitting to prevent overheating (I usually leave out at least 1ft diameter) and fit attic flooring on top of attic joists.

I'd say its cheaper than fire hoods.

Wertz

Re: my suggestion above.

Bear in mind that if you need to remove the recessed lighting to replace a blown bulb then my method won't make that easy.

bowsie casey

I remember hearing a suggestion that you can cover the fitting with a small flowerpot upside-down, and insulate above it as normal.

gibbers

Thanks All for the quick replies. I think I'll give the flower pot idea a go. At least that already has predrilled holes that'll let the heat out in very small amounts so as the fitting doesn't overheat. The fire hoods are a neat idea too but too much cash involved for the amount of lights I have.

The recessed lighting I have is a mix of straight downs, swivels and scoop and swivel (which are the worst). If you hold an incense stick near the light with the light on you can see from the smoke off the incense stick how much area is bellowing in from the outside. Unbelieveable! The air is actually coming in through the light fitting itself rather than around the edges where it touches the ceiling.

I thought I was the only one with the problem but I checked the recessed lighting in the inlaws house yesterday and low and behold the same problem. They did not notice it as much because they have an AGA going in a reatively small area.

I hope anyone reading this thread that is building a house does take notice. Recessed lighting is fine with enclosed overhead spaces but otherwise a disaster unless they are covered.

Still no reply from the manufacturer...surprise surprise.

Cheers!

CJhaughey

A time consuming but cheap method is to make a box from old plasterboard and put them over the light fittings.

Borzoi

CJhaughey wrote:

A time consuming but cheap method is to make a box from old plasterboard and put them over the light fittings.

Or an old biscuit tin, basicly anything that doesn't burn ,and will keep the attic insulation off the hot lamps

Head The Wall

In the states you can get recessed lighting that is rated for having insulation around it. Can you get those here?

If the fitting is for energy saving bulbs or LEDs, they don't get very hot

Cmar-Ireland

Interesting thread. I assume this is not a problem between floors, just in the ceiling next to the roof space?
Not applicable to your situation, but if anyone was thinking of fitting them I would be looking at using LED downlighters to eliminate the heat issue.

Borzoi

Deleted User wrote:

If the fitting is for energy saving bulbs or LEDs, they don't get very hot

Thee sister company where I work are lighting specialists. So one day I borrowed a lux meter (used to measure lighting levels) and six LED GU10s. So replacing 50W Halogens with 2W LED

My spots are about 1.2mtr apart in a squarish grid, standard ceiling height, I measured on a plane about 1.2 off the floor - basicly countertop height

Results: Dreadfull, appalling, crap. Typical 600lx Halogen dropping to 200lx LED. 400lx is about a minimum for an office IIRC, test was in the kitchen, so good light levels needed for cooking etc. Furthermore the light is very very cold white

Does anybody want some spare LED GU10s? Might suit dim corridor;)

KAGY

Borzoi wrote:

Or an old biscuit tin, basicly anything that doesn't burn ,and will keep the attic insulation off the hot lamps

I'd be very wary of putting metal over the electric wires.

I have the same problem my self and am now seriously considering the ceramic pot. It would only be the bulb heat that you would have to dissapate, and I assume a large enogh diameter pot would allow the built up heat to pass back through the plasterboard to heat the house.

CJhaughey

Borzoi
I can understand where you are coming from with regard to LED GU10s but I also know that they are not all equal.
I have some that have 42 leds in and they are a warm white 3500Lux the cold blue are brighter but as you say don't look very welcoming.
I know that there are new LED GU10's on the market that use Luxeon star emitters and they are supposed to be superbright.
Alternatively there are cold cathode GU10 bulbs which are brighter again and also run cooler than halogens.
I think that you will always need halogens in the kitchen for good bright light but the LEDs as you say are good for hallways and places where bright expensive and shortlived halogens don't need to be on for long periods.

Gwynston

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

Interesting thread. I assume this is not a problem between floors, just in the ceiling next to the roof space?

It is a problem for us between floors!

We have swivel-recessed lighting in our lounge which also has a bay window. The hollow ceiling must not be completely sealed from the roof of the bay because we get drafts from the light fittings.

I'm assuming that the tiled roof over the bay has similar soffit and ventilation as a regular roof and that this air is going straight into the hollow ceiling and out the light fitting.

Anything that can be done to fix this?

Cmar-Ireland

Gwynston wrote:

It is a problem for us between floors!

We have swivel-recessed lighting in our lounge which also has a bay window. The hollow ceiling must not be completely sealed from the roof of the bay because we get drafts from the light fittings.

I'm assuming that the tiled roof over the bay has similar soffit and ventilation as a regular roof and that this air is going straight into the hollow ceiling and out the light fitting.

Anything that can be done to fix this?

What about removing the light fixture and spraying some expanding foam between the joists as far away from the fixture as you can reach? So you would effectly close off the airflow from the bay window to the ceiling hole. You could do this between joists for each affected fixture.
Obviously you would want the foam well away from the light and heat!

Gwynston

Thanks CMar - that's a nifty idea!

We have 6 lights in two rows of 3 running away from the window, so I guess I would only need to do this on first two closest to the window and the rest should all be blocked off too!

Borzoi

CJhaughey wrote:

I have some that have 42 leds in and they are a warm white 3500Lux the cold blue are brighter but as you say don't look very welcoming.
I know that there are new LED GU10's on the market that use Luxeon star emitters and they are supposed to be superbright.
Alternatively there are cold cathode GU10 bulbs which are brighter again and also run cooler than halogens.

Are these the exact same size as a standard GU10? I was using the 2W LED because that was a standard size bulb. I know there are 7-9W LED or Florescents available that have a GU10 base, but are 10-20mm longer, so would just look rubbish in my recessed light fittings

Qwerty?

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

Obviously you would want the foam well away from the light and heat!

Theres fireproof foam available afaik.

CJhaughey

Borzoi wrote:

Are these the exact same size as a standard GU10? I was using the 2W LED because that was a standard size bulb. I know there are 7-9W LED or Florescents available that have a GU10 base, but are 10-20mm longer, so would just look rubbish in my recessed light fittings

The Luxeon star are the exact same size as the normal bulbs, the Cold cathode are longer.

irelandjoe

I am just planning on getting spots, and looked at Fire/Acoustic rated spots. They look the job. These are coming in at about €13 including the bulb.

johninho

Gwynston wrote: »

Thanks CMar - that's a nifty idea!

We have 6 lights in two rows of 3 running away from the window, so I guess I would only need to do this on first two closest to the window and the rest should all be blocked off too!

I know that this thread was from over 6 years ago, but Gwynston, did you do this in the end and how did you get on?

I'm planning to do the same in between the joists at the end closest to the outside wall.

Thanks.

Gwynston

Oh dear - 6 years and I still haven't done anything about it!
Doesn't say much for my DIY.... :rolleyes:

johninho

Ha!

No worries, I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for getting back.