The Scottish PL discussion thread

eirebhoy

Eirebear wrote:

i think that may be your downfall to be honest....when celtic use parkhead to their benefit it seems to be usually by giving the opposition a real fright when playing them at home first.

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't be entirely confident going over to Russia after beating them 3-0 at home in the first leg. That's why I'm happy we play away first. Lose by 2 goals or less over there and I'll be content.

PauloMN

And this f**kin' Boruc thing.... just what we could have done without!

Hope our midfield just take control of the games. Who do you all think Strachan will pair with JVoH? I'd be surprised if it was anyone other than Miller.

Eirebear

eirebhoy wrote:

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't be entirely confident going over to Russia after beating them 3-0 at home in the first leg. That's why I'm happy we play away first. Lose by 2 goals or less over there and I'll be content.

What happens if they trounce you over there though? They certainly wont capitulate like artmedia almost did.
You really REALLY need to score over there 1-2 would be a brilliant result over there.

Just heard the celtic guy talking about them on sky....artificial pitch! thats gonna make things even more awkward.

eirebhoy

Eirebear wrote:

What happens if they trounce you over there though?

They've more chance of trouncing us over there if we played them at home first and beat them though. The 2nd leg at home is a big advantage, no doubt about that imo.

Mr Alan

PauloMN wrote:

What do you care? You said on the other thread that Celtic and Rangers are ****.

ha ha ha, was only joking man, don't take everything i say so seriously.

I care cause two of my best mates are Celtic fans (proper Celtic fans, not usual irish muppets) and was hoping to meet them in the group stages at some point.

apologies for speaking

Eirebear

Sheesh i didnt think my little wind up would have such a fall out......

I'm off to get my troll licence

PauloMN

millersangel wrote:

ha ha ha, was only joking man, don't take everything i say so seriously.

I care cause two of my best mates are Celtic fans (proper Celtic fans, not usual irish muppets) and was hoping to meet them in the group stages at some point.

apologies for speaking

You Premiership types are all the same. :rolleyes:

Erin Go Brath

Tough draw

Spartak are half way through their season, and they're going to be sharper than us. They're also leading the Russian league.

However, i don't envisage a repeat of the Artmedia fiasco, for a few reasons. This time around we'll have a few competitive games under our belt, and there will be absolutely no complacency around this time.

I think playing away for the first leg is an advantage. A draw, or a narrow defeat especially with us scoring an away goal will put us in a good position. Spartak are strong at home, not good travellers though. We'll certainly take them in Parkhead.

Overall, I'm confident but its going to be a close one.

A Dub in Glasgo

Tough draw, I am an eternal pessimist when it comes to Celtic in Europe

PauloMN

Erin Go Brath wrote:

However, i don't envisage a repeat of the Artmedia fiasco, for a few reasons. This time around we'll have a few competitive games under our belt, and there will be absolutely no complacency around this time.

I think playing away for the first leg is an advantage. A draw, or a narrow defeat especially with us scoring an away goal will put us in a good position. Spartak are strong at home, not good travellers though. We'll certainly take them in Parkhead.

Hopefully so. Even after the Artmedia fiasco (will we EVER forget that one....), we nearly did do the job in the end - it was 5-4 over both legs. The away performance was just dire, but we had a new manager which was a huge part of it. I remember a 4-4 draw with Motherwell around that time as well which proves the point. :eek:

If we can get a draw in the first leg, that would be a great result but even a narrow defeat wouldn't be too bad. What we need to avoid is a 3 plus defeat in which case we are essentially stuffed unless a miracle happens. Personally I'd be delighted to see a boring 0-0 (or even better a 1-1) draw playing defensively, maybe a 4-5-1 formation of sorts and just try and keep them at bay for 90 mins.

I'll put my head on the block here and say I'd be very surprised if we don't beat them at home, very surprised - so if we can force a draw over there, or at worst come home just a goal down, I'd be confident we can go through.

Hope this post doesn't come back to haunt me....

eirebhoy

A FASCINATION for close encounters with animals in the wild, with a particular penchant for eyeballing lions and swimming with great white sharks, is probably as good a way as any of preparing for the next campaign in the jungle of Scottish football.

Gordon Strachan's mid-summer safari, the indulgence of a lifelong passion, clearly left the little Celtic manager with the enthusiasm for the coming fray that is appropriate to anyone seeking a third successive league championship and another charge on Europe.

"It was fantastic, I have to say the most exciting, enthralling, scariest thing I've ever been on," said Strachan, in the course of a lengthy, wide-ranging and typically forthright conversation in his Celtic Park office this week.

"At the same time, it was also very funny. Just four of us on an open truck, out in the wild for three days and night, and I'm still laughing at the American lady who shared the trip with me and my wife, Lesley.

"We're discussing what the great predators, like lions, attack as their prey, and she asks the ranger what giraffes attack. 'Trees,' I said, 'they attack trees', and my wife batters me. But the serious bits were unbelievable. My interest in wild animals has always been there, since I was a kid. Geography and history were my thing at school.

"But it's getting close, that's the real bit. I've taken up photography in the last couple of years and I have some great pictures. I'm two metres away from a lion with no protection. That's when I realise that taking pictures is all very well, but you need to be brave to snap a lion two metres away and it's walking up to you and your leg's across the outside of the jeep.

"We went out to see the great white sharks and it was brilliant, three of them around the boat at the same time. You go down in a cage, right in among them, but it was a bit of a disappointment that, because my hip was still a problem after having my operation, I couldn't get in the cage. But just being close to them is amazing, they are pretty fearsome."

The suggestion that the adventure did not sound much different from being manager of Celtic brought a characteristically self-mocking retort: "Oh, listen, I felt much safer in the jungle, don't worry about that."

The joke was an allusion to frequent reports over the past two years of the coolness of a substantial number of the club's followers towards Strachan, a relationship that has been described as uneasy, suspicious and certainly lacking the deep and widespread affection which was directed at his predecessor, Martin O'Neill.

It is a view he considers exaggerated, although he would not attempt to deny that the Irishman's background as a committed Celtic supporter since childhood gave him a place in the fans' esteem which Strachan could not hope to achieve. For all that, he insists he is perfectly at ease with where he is.

"I'm comfortable," he said, "I'm comfortable with everything here, with how I'm perceived by Celtic people. I like it here. I like when I meet people in the street - and the only ones I can relate to and speak about are those I meet - and they're great. That's almost a tangible effect and it's been smashing.

"The other aspect that other people tend to dwell on, such as booing my decision to substitute Derek Riordan in a Scottish Cup tie, that to me is just booing a decision and I'm fine with that. I can't imagine a manager in history, including the great ones, who hasn't had decisions booed.

"The thing with Derek was that he hadn't played a lot of games and we needed to change things. I probably made a mistake when I said at one point that Derek was the best finisher at the club. I didn't qualify it properly and it gave a lot of people the chance to say, predictably, well, if he's the best at the club, why aren't you playing him?

"When I'm talking about finishing, I mean when the pitch is empty and he has the opportunity to show that he can hit them with two good feet. But there's more to the game than just staying up the park and finishing. Derek, like many other players, has more to learn and more to work on.

"But the overall relationship with the support, I don't have a problem with that. Actually, I quite like it like that. I'm a bit wary of blind adoration, I do think it's better if you earn respect. It certainly doesn't have to be love. And maybe my saying I wasn't a Celtic supporter previously didn't help.

"But that's just being honest. I wasn't a Celtic supporter, but I was an admirer. I was a great admirer of Jock Stein and all the players who were here. And, whether you're a Celtic supporter or not, it's harder to be an admirer than a fan. As a fan, it's an unqualified, emotional obligation you've had since an early age.

"Admiration is earned. And I can tell you with complete truth that I was also a bit envious that I never played here. I know the old line about being 'a Celtic man', but that doesn't have to have been the case all your life. Players and managers join clubs and become great supporters, whatever allegiances they may have had before. They become proud of the club, proud of the work they have done and what they have helped to achieve."

There is no absence of pride in Strachan over the successes he and his players have achieved in the past two seasons, but the unrelenting demand for maintenance of that level of performance necessitates constant monitoring, regular changes of personnel and a ceaseless striving for improvement.

Strachan has often enough reminded supporters of the difficulty of competing with the richest countries - most emphatically with the Premiership clubs in England - in the matter of acquiring players of the required standard, especially for the purpose of making a creditable challenge in the Champions League.

It is a view of reality that often fails to impact on supporters whose expectations tend to be founded on the rather unreliable basis of dreams. In declaring himself pleased with this summer's intake so far of new players - Scott Brown, Scott McDonald, Chris Killen and Massimo Donati - he also expanded with the most startling candour yet on the limits imposed at what is currently the wealthiest club in the country.

"No manager will ever say he's satisfied with what he's got, but I'm fine with things at the moment," he said. "I've liked what I've seen so far, but we have to admit that we are not in a position to pursue what would be regarded as first-tier players in an international sense.

"Put it this way, if we were to dwell on the negative aspect of a player's capabilities, we would never sign anybody. Because there are always flaws. What we have to do is maximise the potential of those we have. It's part of the financial level at which we have to operate.

"Let's say the truly great player has five prime assets. We are probably looking at players here who have three, perhaps even two. We have to try to improve them into a three or a four. Five out of five, you're looking at Henrik Larsson and that class. So we have to settle, as things are, for second or even third-tier players.

"If we had top-level players, the biggest clubs in Europe would simply come and take them away, no question of that and there would be nothing we could do about it. The five-asset players and even many of the fours go to Manchester United, Chelsea, Milan, that level of club.

"The next tier go to the clubs just below the big four in England and their equivalents in the other powerful nations, like Italy and Spain.

"It's just a fact of life that, often, we have to work with players even below that level. It's certainly not a criticism of our lads, who have been and are terrific for us, but it's the truth.

"It's the difference in wage structures and it's perfectly understandable. We take £2million annually from domestic television and Fulham take upwards of £30million - and they're spending it. But we have what many others don't have. We have 60,000 crowds, we have passion, excitement, the Champions League and we're going for championships.

"And those players we have do a very good job. The new lads are settling in well, although we have a wee problem with Scott McDonald at the moment because he is suspended for the opening two matches. Scott Brown is just a class act, Massimo Donati is settling in well and will be an asset and I like what I've seen of Chris Killen, even though he is still feeling his Achilles problem a little.

"Of course, the challenge is going to be tough this season, but that's no different from any other. Even if we seemed to run away from the others last time, that doesn't mean it's easy."

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odonnell

was a fairly scrappy game, though a fantastic result. Glad fergie bagged two goals - hes looking sharp and fit so he is. He said smith has told him he'll play in that advanced position sometimes this season, and after that showing - i truly hope he does.

now... i know i shouldnt say this about our 'star' striker... but im hoping beyond hope boyd ankle is done for maybe a month or so. Maybe McCulloch and novo would be the starters up front after that shwing today also. McCulloch looks like a brilliant buy and already the nay-sayers have all but back tracked on all their previous booing and hissing at smith spending such money on him, before theyd even seen the guy in a rangers jersey.


happy with that win today.

PauloMN

One game down and we're down to this ****e again:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/6931472.stm

I hope it's not going to be another season of this.

Eirebear

First up, Cracking result for us today, its not easy going up there and getting a win like that. My only worry today was Boyd, the boy looks like he is severely lacking confidence, and people getting on his back (not you o'donnell, the stick hes taking over on the gersforum is ridiculous imo) isnt helping in the slightest.

Sectarian chanting......here we go again eh?
The SFA know how hard both Rangers and Celtic are working in order to eradicate the problems at Ibrox and Parkhead, as do the media, do you see either of them applauding the clubs for that?
Both clubs recieved an award last year from some EU commision for the work done in the community through their respective academies... did anyone of you see that on the front...or back pages?
I do feel that their has been a media witchhunt against Rangers fans over the last 2-3 years (are you reading mr spiers?) and that may sound paranoid, but answer me this....who alerted the authorities to the youtube videos and what not?
And when a bus full of photographers and reporters got smashed outside the san siro last season....how come no one noticed!?

Anyway im not trying to turn this into a rangers v celtic thing because i feel that the new "rules" about chants and songs in the terracing will only affect our two clubs....maybe the SFA should head on up gorgie rd. when they are facing hibs to see whats going on....inside AND outside of the stadium.
Oh yeah..... and welcome to the SPL Gretna..enjoy it while it lasts!

eirebhoy

I wouldn't really know the Rangers songs but the lads on KDS were commenting a lot on the songs that were being sung today. The thing is, very rarely would you be able to hear a sectarian chant at a Celtic match from the TV. Most of the chants are add ons to the likes of Willie Maley and a small minority sing them these days. Even the Wolfetones song, Celtic Symphony, has a distinctive verse. The odd time that song gets sung they won't even get as far as that verse.

I do believe Rangers have a bigger problem than Celtic when it comes to sectarian chanting. Actually, the loudest IRA chant I heard at a Celtic match in a long time was the games over in the USA this summer which says it all. And I'm not joking when I say this, it's probably even worse at a Cork game for the add ons to the fields of athenry. Celtic really don't have that big a problem with the songs.

Eirebear

eirebhoy wrote:

I wouldn't really know the Rangers songs but the lads on KDS were commenting a lot on the songs that were being sung today. The thing is, very rarely would you be able to hear a sectarian chant at a Celtic match from the TV. Most of the chants are add ons to the likes of Willie Maley and a small minority sing them these days. Even the Wolfetones song, Celtic Symphony, has a distinctive verse. The odd time that song gets sung they won't even get as far as that verse.

I do believe Rangers have a bigger problem than Celtic when it comes to sectarian chanting. Actually, the loudest IRA chant I heard at a Celtic match in a long time was the games over in the USA this summer which says it all. And I'm not joking when I say this, it's probably even worse at a Cork game for the add ons to the fields of athenry. Celtic really don't have that big a problem with the songs.

I cant completely agree with you there Eirebhoy, but thats a barrell of monkeys i dont really want to open right now.
I did here songs on the TV today reffering to King Billy and i heard "derrys walls also" i didnt here any of the FTP's that we'll supposedly get into trouble for, but hey watcha gonna dooo?

PauloMN

Rangers have a worse problem with their songs and chants than Celtic do IMO (would I think any different? ). There are some idiots within the Celtic away support that always seem to add the IRA chants in some of the songs, but aside from those fools, it's pretty much been sorted. Hopefully the club will continue to ban those idiots that persist with the IRA stuff as they are an embarrassment to the club and every decent supporter.

Some of the Rangers fans last year away in Europe and at some of the SPL matches were a disgrace though. FTP, fenian blood, no surrender, Nazi salutes (always makes me laugh that one - guys draped in Union Jacks doing Nazi salutes - do they not see the irony?) and the crowd trouble in Europe put Scottish football in general in a very bad light. And the YouTube videos only demonstrated that the problem was not confined to a small minority.

Mind you, reading some of the stuff posted by Rangers fans when Le Guen was appointed kind of underlines the problem. While RFC might no longer deem a person's religion to be a valid reason not to employ them, it would appear that at least some of the fans still do.

Anyway, hopefully it's not a sign of things for the coming season. We could all do without that daft stuff.

As regards today's result, that's a good win away there. ICT have been a thorn in the side of both Rangers and Celtic over recent years. It was one of the fixtures I least looked forward to last season and the season before, even moreso than Ibrox. I think that may change this season though!

Gretna - yeah I think they might be in for a rough season TBH. They've been promoted what 3 times? in the past few seasons - it's been too quick a progression to the SPL and they'll be found out. Good news for St Mirren, Motherwell and maybe one or two others as they'll probably now not have any relegation worries this season. I would have liked to have seen St. Johnstone up again though.

Eirebear

PauloMN wrote:

Rangers have a worse problem with their songs and chants than Celtic do IMO (would I think any different? ). There are some idiots within the Celtic away support that always seem to add the IRA chants in some of the songs, but aside from those fools, it's pretty much been sorted. Hopefully the club will continue to ban those idiots that persist with the IRA stuff as they are an embarrassment to the club and every decent supporter.

Some of the Rangers fans last year away in Europe and at some of the SPL matches were a disgrace though. FTP, fenian blood, no surrender, Nazi salutes (always makes me laugh that one - guys draped in Union Jacks doing Nazi salutes - do they not see the irony?) and the crowd trouble in Europe put Scottish football in general in a very bad light. And the YouTube videos only demonstrated that the problem was not confined to a small minority.

Mind you, reading some of the stuff posted by Rangers fans when Le Guen was appointed kind of underlines the problem. While RFC might no longer deem a person's religion to be a valid reason not to employ them, it would appear that at least some of the fans still do.

Anyway, hopefully it's not a sign of things for the coming season. We could all do without that daft stuff.

As regards today's result, that's a good win away there. ICT have been a thorn in the side of both Rangers and Celtic over recent years. It was one of the fixtures I least looked forward to last season and the season before, even moreso than Ibrox. I think that may change this season though!

Gretna - yeah I think they might be in for a rough season TBH. They've been promoted what 3 times? in the past few seasons - it's been too quick a progression to the SPL and they'll be found out. Good news for St Mirren, Motherwell and maybe one or two others as they'll probably now not have any relegation worries this season. I would have liked to have seen St. Johnstone up again though.

I think tbh the le guen comments were more bourne out of frustration than anything else really.
The "Nazi" salute thing, whilst i would love to see it eradicated...these guys actually believe that its not a nazi salute rather its a "red hand salute"...yes yes i know its stupid, but thats scottish football/politics/culture.
"fenian blood" isnt sung at ibrox or away games....never mind the fact supporters clubs and groups have all came up with their own versions of it, the authorities wont have it.
The chelsea fans sang it, in Ibrox during pre season...yet rangers fans would have recieved bans from Ibrox for singing their own song.

Add that to the fact that esteemed members of the press...McNee this ones for you...have called for Follow Folow to be banned because "it mentions dublin!"
And the Bouncy is also sectarian because it refers to "Northern irish terrorist groups bouncing on the heads of catholic victims"....we cant really win can we?!;)

Anyway my rants are over for tonight, all the best when unfurling the flag tomorrow.....it'll be the last you see for a while!;)

Eirebear

Just turned on the cleitc killie game......you know what huys, i think your right about not hearing any "sectarian" chants at parkhead........ i can only hear the killie fans

odonnell

Eirebear wrote:

Just turned on the cleitc killie game......you know what huys, i think your right about not hearing any "sectarian" chants at parkhead........ i can only hear the killie fans

0-0

:rolleyes:

about the singing of songs - killie singing billy boys..or....'killie boys?'

what about the greatest fans in the world singing "whos the mason in the black"?

they gonna get a deduction of UEFA probe for that? Cos if we can face a probe and a paper write-up from 90% of journos in Scotland and the SFA over follow follow - surely its celtics turn?

Eirebear

odonnell wrote:

0-0

:rolleyes:

about the singing of songs - killie singing billy boys..or....'killie boys?'

what about the greatest fans in the world singing "whos the mason in the black"?

they gonna get a deduction of UEFA probe for that? Cos if we can face a probe and a paper write-up from 90% of journos in Scotland and the SFA over follow follow - surely its celtics turn?

'Twas "killie boys" mate, doesnt matter though considering its the TUNE thats banned for Rangers fans.
The greatest fans in the World were at their loudest today at two points...singing "whos the mason in the black" :eek:
And booing their team off the pitch....

Let the good times roll, this seasons gonna be a belter!

odonnell

now now....we dont want to incur the wrath of our new found friends here



do we?

Eirebear

odonnell wrote:

now now....we dont want to incur the wrath of our new found friends here



do we?

Nah 'course not mate

Just been a while since ive felt so good about rangers to be honest, and a wee sneaky peeky over parkhead way this afternoon confirmed my suspicions that they may not be as good as i expected them to be this year.

odonnell

you know the bit in lord of the rings when one of the hobbits is looking into the big glas ball.... and then Sauron sees him?

thats how i feel here the now...

im just waiting to be noticed, and then burnt.

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote:

'Twas "killie boys" mate, doesnt matter though considering its the TUNE thats banned for Rangers fans.
The greatest fans in the World were at their loudest today at two points...singing "whos the mason in the black" :eek:
And booing their team off the pitch....

Let the good times roll, this seasons gonna be a belter!

Not sure what the problem with singing "who's the mason in the black" - nothing sectarian about that, hence no headlines about it after the game unlike yesterday.

As for the game - just one of those days really. I thought we played well in the first half overall, but fluffed a couple of good chances which would have put the game to bed early on. Second half was poor, we let Kilmarnock control a lot of the game. Pity we dropped two points though in a home game.

Strachan has some work to do, but I expect normal service will be resumed soon.

odonnell

thats our point Paul. Theres nothing offensive about singing "if they go to dublin we will follow on" .... but we're under scrutiny for that too. So to shout Whos the Mason in the Black - cmon..thats just a tad more inflammatory than "if they go to dublin......"

applehunter

What was the game like today? I know it was a 0-0.

My friend went over to see his first match. Do you think he'll be back for more?

Eirebear

Paul, you know as well as i do that in scotland the masons are inextricably linked to the orange order and especially in scotland that means protestant.
By inferring that the ref is a mason, you are in turn inferring that he is protestant and corrupt no? thats pretty much along the lines of sectarianism for me.

I would like to say here that it doesnt actually bother me all that much (especially since im neither a mason or protestant ) but it cant be one rule for us, and one for everyone else.

Applehunter: if your mate was going over for the famous parkhead atmosphere i think he may come home dissapointed, all you could hear was killie fans...

applehunter

Ill give you his verdict tomorrow.

Hes a French Marseille supporter

Eirebear

applehunter wrote:

Ill give you his verdict tomorrow.

Hes a French Marseille supporter

Marseille eh? now theres a club i will not comment on for fear of being banned.....:mad:

applehunter

I dont know the history.

Whats the problem

Eirebear

applehunter wrote:

I dont know the history.

Whats the problem

1992...marseille cheat their way to the European cup, Rangers go unbeaten in the group stages but lose out on goal difference to them. (back then the group stage consisted of 2 groups, the two winners going to the final).
Bribing referees...opposition players coming down with food poisoning, lots of wierd **** going on.

applehunter

Well its the year 2007 now.

PauloMN

odonnell wrote:

thats our point Paul. Theres nothing offensive about singing "if they go to dublin we will follow on" .... but we're under scrutiny for that too. So to shout Whos the Mason in the Black - cmon..thats just a tad more inflammatory than "if they go to dublin......"

Who has Rangers under scrutiny for "Follow Follow" and why? What's offensive in it?

@ Eirebear: Without wishing to drag the thread down a discussion about offensive chants and songs, I would make the point that if that's the worst you could pick out from today, we are in a lot healthier of a position than Rangers are. "Who's the Mason in the black" is banter in my book, and is in no way comparable to the "F**k the Pope" and "Fenian blood" stuff I've constantly heard out of a sizeable portion of the Rangers fans. That's why there were headlines about yesterday, and ditto why nothing will be said about the pretty mild Mason stuff today.

They showed a clip of yesterdays singing on Setanta, did you see/hear it? In no way was that a minority singing.

I always view it like this. I have a 5 year old who went to his first Celtic game a few months back (vs. Aberdeen, Lenny's last home game). Like you, I'm not especially bothered about any of the nonsense (although the sense of pure hatred I get from some of the Rangers stuff gets to me a bit) - but I always think what would I really not like my boy to hear at a game. "FTP" and "fenian blood" are a couple of things that are well beyond the realms of banter, and are things I just do not want him to hear. On the other hand, stuff like the Mason thing is pretty mild, and while I personally wouldn't sing it, I honestly wouldn't mind him hearing it. And it's not just Celtic banter - if Rangers fans were to sing "Who's the Taig in the black" or "Tattie Munchers" for example, it wouldn't bother me for him to hear that sort of banter. It's easy enough to explain to a young lad what the banter stuff it, but try explaining "FTP", "Fenian blood" or Nazi salutes to a 5 year old - you get the picture.

It's a shame in a way, but I'm glad it's being addressed. I won't bring him to a Rangers game because of it - just not worth the risk of him seeing/hearing that stuff at such a young age.

Eirebear

Paul, sorry if you think im being aggressive about it, im not meaning to.... believe me i would dearly love to see the FTP brigade erradicated from our support i really would.
The nazi salute thing is NOT a nazi salute....its not something i like seeing our fans do, but they believe they are doing what they call a "red hand salute", it has nothing to do with nazi's....not that this makes it ok mind.

As for follow follow, at least 2 journalists in scotland have brought this to the attention of the "public" calling for it to be banned from the Ibrox tannoys due to the fact that dublin is mentioned in it.
Mr. Spiers and Mr McNee have also acused the "sectarian bile" (that one was spiers) of glorifying murders in northern ireland by doing "the Bouncy"!!!!!
Seriously...is it any wonder there is a certain amount of defiance in the Rangers support at the minute?

@Applehunter..... Marseille were the perpetrators of some disgusting crimes against football, and Rangers were one of the major victims of that, I for one would be happy to see them tumble horribly out of existence...
So im afraid that your point of reminding me what year we are living in makes no difference.

odonnell

PauloMN wrote:

Who has Rangers under scrutiny for "Follow Follow" and why? What's offensive in it?

@ Eirebear: Without wishing to drag the thread down a discussion about offensive chants and songs, I would make the point that if that's the worst you could pick out from today, we are in a lot healthier of a position than Rangers are. "Who's the Mason in the black" is banter in my book, and is in no way comparable to the "F**k the Pope" and "Fenian blood" stuff I've constantly heard out of a sizeable portion of the Rangers fans. That's why there were headlines about yesterday, and ditto why nothing will be said about the pretty mild Mason stuff today.

They showed a clip of yesterdays singing on Setanta, did you see/hear it? In no way was that a minority singing.

I always view it like this. I have a 5 year old who went to his first Celtic game a few months back (vs. Aberdeen, Lenny's last home game). Like you, I'm not especially bothered about any of the nonsense (although the sense of pure hatred I get from some of the Rangers stuff gets to me a bit) - but I always think what would I really not like my boy to hear at a game. "FTP" and "fenian blood" are a couple of things that are well beyond the realms of banter, and are things I just do not want him to hear. On the other hand, stuff like the Mason thing is pretty mild, and while I personally wouldn't sing it, I honestly wouldn't mind him hearing it. And it's not just Celtic banter - if Rangers fans were to sing "Who's the Taig in the black" or "Tattie Munchers" for example, it wouldn't bother me for him to hear that sort of banter. It's easy enough to explain to a young lad what the banter stuff it, but try explaining "FTP", "Fenian blood" or Nazi salutes to a 5 year old - you get the picture.

It's a shame in a way, but I'm glad it's being addressed. I won't bring him to a Rangers game because of it - just not worth the risk of him seeing/hearing that stuff at such a young age.

I get the pitcure entirely mate, please dont think both EB and myself are A) on the side of the idiots who sing that stuff, and ignorant to it, C) offended by the celtic stuff, and D) opposed to the ousting of bigotry and sectarianism..... we are all for this stuff being rooted out.

But you have to understand, we are in the minority here, amongst our own, s to speak. We regularly get called tim-lovers all because we can see this thing clearly and can separate football from race and religion. So we arent here to argue for it you know? but what you do have to see from where youre standing....you guys - celtic fans... maybe not glaswegian therefor slightly removed from whats going on and being said in a childhood in glasgow, but celtic fans nonetheless.... you have to understand that even WE (EB and myself) feel that Rangers have been witch hunted this past decade.

Maybe its success driven, maybe not - but in modern times it has almost become fashionable among the media and politicians to slate Rangers and try to find something to put them down for. People like Gerry McNee, Graham Spiers, and various other unamed tabloid journalists, the EX scottish first minister im led to believe, and ...well...nameless faceless others in uefa, sfa, scottish media....etc - have all joined the bandwagon to find something to film, something to record, SOMETHING to present to uefa. Im disgusted to see microphones pointed into the Rangers fans now at all games. Why? take the microphones and shove them - cos many a worse thing will have been spouted from people like jim traynors mouth than your average gers fan..

Ok....the fans arent helping, but if you go to any football ground in England, youll find many seething hate filled fans there too...shouting dogs-abuse at the opposing fans. Go to Aberdeen, they sing about the Ibrox disaster. I wonder what would be said if a Boca Juniors v River Plate crowd were filmed during THAT derby. I know for a fact some savoury things are said at Ajax v Feyenoord....and what about the turkish derby????? An interesting point was made the other day informing us of how many times rangers fans have been involved in violence abroad (not that many times) and how the foreign police were piling into the fans....but if we are so bad - why is it that at Ibrox....when a foreign team goes there - theres never any trouble in glasgow? Could it be we arent actually that feckin bad!?? shock horror what WILL the media write about???? Then consider this...if all these people in turkey, england, holland, etc - go out laying into one another after matches...whats wrong with rangers fans singing SONGS? at least theyre not shooting folk or trashing HIGH STREETS IN DUBLIN CITY CENTRE.

Point is - yes our fans are based in a largely protestant world, they have grown up in loyalist families, and those families have always related one to the other when it comes to football...UEFA must realise its a scottish social issue, not a footballing one - and theres no WAY the club can erradicate this, try as they might. Yet for all their efforts, we have people like McNee saying that we possibly shouldnt even sing the song follow follow for the line "if they go to dublin we shall follow on"......as this is in reference to dublin being the seat of catholocism, and Celtic presumably. Its inflammatory...APPARENTLY.

So - as thin and flimsy as that particular chestnut from McNee is - im asking you mate, dont you think calling someone a Mason - as flimsy and tongue in cheek as it is.... could be classed in the same bracket asthe follow follow line?

I think it is, and its PC gone absolutely bananas. It only goes to show how vindictive a lot of the media and politicians are towards Rangers....and how deep rooted this problem is in Scottish society. Nothing against yous.... and our fans arent helping by not shutting their traps... but you need to try to understand it from our perspective and believe us when we tell you whats going on. Its unacceptable bud.

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote:

Paul, sorry if you think im being aggressive about it, im not meaning to.... believe me i would dearly love to see the FTP brigade erradicated from our support i really would.

Not at all mate, it's a good natured discussion (I think), we're mature enough to agree to disagree!

Forget journos... the people to be concerned about are UEFA and the SFA. They need to work with the clubs to determine what is and isn't allowed, and the clubs must enforce those decisions, simple as that. If the clubs cannot control it, they should be fined and/or docked points, and that goes for Celtic as well as Rangers. Like I say, the IRA stuff I hear sometimes from the away support is the only objectionable thing from my point of view with the Celtic fans, I absolutely hate when I hear it as the IRA should it no way be associated with our club and fans. I remember being a young lad myself and hearing that from the Celtic support and asking my dad what it was all about.

Eirebear

O'Donnell, youve pretty much hit the nail on the head their, just a little more long winded than i was willing to be!

Paul....maturity? but were old firm fans....surely not?!?!:D

Blackjack

G'wan the Hibees!.

Good win this evening although it was a scrappy enough game. New Keeper looks the business alright.

Craig Gordon looking to leave Castle Greyskull for the England. That's 9million that will service the massive debt in Gorgie. Might cover some of the interest they've racked up since Romanov took over. Can't see the Jambos challenging anything like they did 2 years ago.:rolleyes:

1 - 0 to hibs for those that did not hear, Kerr scoring on his Debut. O'Brien looked handy on the wing too. We're definetly a bit loose in midfield without brown but Lewis Stevenson looks like he might fill that gap pretty well, a bit more experience and he'll be up there.

Eirebear

Good result blackjack....im not a massive fan of either edinburgh team, but its always good to see romanov's mob get gubbed after their fans suddenly thought they were a big team after 2 years ago.

Blackjack

Eirebear wrote:

Good result blackjack....im not a massive fan of either edinburgh team, but its always good to see romanov's mob get gubbed after their fans suddenly thought they were a big team after 2 years ago.

You have to like the way the Hibees play football. I'm not biased in saying they do play the most attractive football in the SPL - I've heard this from a number of other fans including many Old Firm (both sides) and even some Jambos.

Eirebear

Blackjack wrote:

You have to like the way the Hibees play football. I'm not biased in saying they do play the most attractive football in the SPL - I've heard this from a number of other fans including many Old Firm (both sides) and even some Jambos.

They played some marvellous football last year, ill certainly give them that.
Whats the squad like though? Youve lost a fair few key players during the off season?

astrofool

Is it worth starting an SPL discussion thread and put everything celtic into there?

Blackjack

Eirebear wrote:

They played some marvellous football last year, ill certainly give them that.
Whats the squad like though? Youve lost a fair few key players during the off season?

There's still a few about to give some stability. Murphy stayed over the summer, and I was worried about him leaving because I reckon he's one of the most under-rated player on the team. Jones is still about as are Hogg, Benji, Zemmama, Fletcher, Dean Shiels and Glass to name a few. The batch of youngsters coming through are shining and with the new training facility due to be up and running sometime soon, things are looking good. Apparently there is planning permission to develop the east stand as well, but it expires in 2009, so they need to utilise that soon if they intend to develop Easter road more.

Never pose a big challenge to the old firm, but Hibs are a club that are staying within their means and playing decent football, and I expect that we'll finish higher this year, perhaps even getting a European spot with any luck.

Eirebear

astrofool wrote:

Is it worth starting an SPL discussion thread and put everything celtic into there?

I dunno, i'll leave that up to the guys who started it as a celtic thread.
it seems to be working ok i suppose but it might be a better way to attract more interest if it was turned into an SPl thread

its certainly been mentioned before usually in the form of "get your own thread ya dirty hun bassa's"

Blackjack

We could ask the OP if he can change the title, but I think the Mods have to do that TBH.

PauloMN

astrofool wrote:

Is it worth starting an SPL discussion thread and put everything celtic into there?

<BANTER>
What about leaving the Celtic thread where it is, and starting a new "other SPL diddy teams thread".
</BANTER>

DucksForCover CSC.

odonnell

....and another entitled 51 and counting....