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Clocked car

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  • 02-12-2006 1:40pm
    #1
    Dazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭


    I bought a UK import car from a south Dublin car dealer last may with 45k miles on the clock with what was said to be a full service history. Car was and still is in excellent condition .I had the key chip read and also the ECU checked and it showed up no milage discrepency. A few weeks back I tried to trade it into a main dealer who checked the service records in the UK and informed me the car had at least 80k miles when it was last serviced in the UK. When I went back to where I bought it I told them the type of car I was looking for and they could get it for me and take back the clocked car as a trade in.
    - Presumably to sell it on to some other sap.
    I dont want the hassle of a court case and now feel they are dragging their heels as I have had to chase them a few times to see if they had any suitable car for me.
    Am I entitled to a full refund after having the car for a few months and is any one able to advise what my next move should be.

    PS . lesson - check the service records through the main dealer using the chassis number on any imports before buying.


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    #2
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Under the sale of goods act, you were sold something different to what they told you they were selling, you're covered. They need to refund you in full.


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    #3
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    It's even easier than that, it's called Fraud.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #4
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    And out of curiosity why did you get the Key Chip and the ECU read/checked ?

    Who provided that service, purley so nobody else uses them since clearly they are crap !

    Have you seen proof yourself that the car was/is clocked or are you taking a salesmans word !! :eek:


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    #5
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Wasn't a grey volvo estate by any chance was it ? :D


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    #6
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    MercMad wrote:
    And out of curiosity why did you get the Key Chip and the ECU read/checked ? Who provided that service, purley so nobody else uses them since clearly they are crap ! Have you seen proof yourself that the car was/is clocked or are you taking a salesmans word !! :eek:

    I work for a certain brand's Main Dealership, and we regularly check keys for extra mileage when we see a trade in we don't recognise, or what's clearly an import vehicle. Unfortunately, while most clockers only change the speedo and forget the key, a few are able to re-code the key's internal eeprom too.

    The way around this is exactly as the OP stated, we can check the service campaigns on the car through our own internal Internet and see what the mileage was when it was serviced.

    So, contrary to what MercMad says, it is possible for a main Dealer to be fooled too if the Salesperson doesn't go to the trouble of checking the history.


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    #7
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    No actually I wasn't implying that the salesman didn't go to the trouble of checking, but merely that he may be suggesting the car was clocked without having any proof, and therefore justifying a poor trade in allowance !

    Scare tactics if you will !

    I am aware that dealers can check UK history through the dealer network with the chassis numbers but is this possible for a "foreign" vehicle or for a vehicle that you do not represent ??


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    #8
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    Apologies for mis-interpreting your post MercMad. We can do it for vehicles in the same franchise no matter what the country of origin. But non-franchise stuff is impossible.


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    #9
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Dazcon wrote:
    I bought a UK import car from a south Dublin car dealer

    It wasn't from Santa in his Grotto in Lucan, was it?
    mloc123 wrote:
    Wasn't a grey volvo estate by any chance was it ? :D

    :D


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    #10
    Dazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dazcon


    Car is a BMW and shows how well cars can be clocked these days. A main dealer was able to show me the service records from a uk garage who had serviced it. I dont really blame the guy who checked the milage on it when I bought it as he was correct in that the key Eprom and speedo matched. i have been told since that it is possible to check to see how many times the service light has been reset. I'm still trying to get some agreement with the place I bought it and will let you konw what happens next.


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    #11
    Mr.Diagnostic
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Mr.Diagnostic


    As regards the service resets, it holds the last 5. Most clockers know this and so will reset it 5 times. The real mileage is stored in another module as well that the clockers do not seem to have found. This mileage is not read by the dealer tool.


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    #12
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    You could simply say the only place the mileage is stored that clockers definitely can't get at is in the Main Dealers computer system!


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    #13
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    sounds like the guys you bought from did nothing wrong.
    they bought a clocked car unwawres,
    did their checks and nothing came back.
    after that they sold it on unawares.

    the only person that cant sell it on now is you, as you know the real mileage :/


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    #14
    Mc-BigE
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Mc-BigE


    Dazcon wrote:
    I bought a UK import car from a south Dublin car dealer last may with 45k miles on the clock with what was said to be a full service history. Car was and still is in excellent condition .I had the key chip read and also the ECU checked and it showed up no milage discrepency. A few weeks back I tried to trade it into a main dealer who checked the service records in the UK and informed me the car had at least 80k miles when it was last serviced in the UK. When I went back to where I bought it I told them the type of car I was looking for and they could get it for me and take back the clocked car as a trade in.
    - Presumably to sell it on to some other sap.
    I dont want the hassle of a court case and now feel they are dragging their heels as I have had to chase them a few times to see if they had any suitable car for me.
    Am I entitled to a full refund after having the car for a few months and is any one able to advise what my next move should be.

    PS . lesson - check the service records through the main dealer using the chassis number on any imports before buying.

    did you know the UK reg before you bought it?, if so you could have got a hpi check done over the internet (for a cost) to check history of the car.

    I wish you luck getting a refund out of the dealer without going to court.

    Im sure the first words out of his mouth will be "I bought the car in the UK with 45K on the clock, i didn't know it was clocked"


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    #15
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    exaclty,
    you wont have to prove the car was clocked,
    youll have to prove the dealer knew about it.


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    #16
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    And if the dealer DIDN'T know.................where does that leave one ?


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    #17
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    MercMad wrote:
    And if the dealer DIDN'T know.................where does that leave one ?
    with an unsaleable car i'd guess.


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    #18
    Mc-BigE
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Mc-BigE


    OP: you said the car had FSH, so that means it had a false service book ,did you see any receipts to led you to believe it had 45K?

    On the plus side 80K for a BMW isn't that bad depending on age of car and type of engine i.e petrol or diesel. at least the correct mileage wasn't 180K:eek:


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    #19
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    subway wrote:
    exaclty,
    you wont have to prove the car was clocked,
    youll have to prove the dealer knew about it.

    No you don't have to prove he knew about it (so in effect proving he lied). It's a dealer, not a private person. Caveat emptor does not apply
    MercMad wrote:
    And if the dealer DIDN'T know.................where does that leave one ?

    Even after using the car for 7 months, the OP is entitled to a full refund imho. Probably requires taking them to court. And that could get messy and expensive

    A more pragmatic solution is as the dealer already has offered: get another car from them and p/ex the clocked car at the price it was purchased originally

    @OP:

    1. Why did go to a main dealer to change your car after only owning the clocked car for a few months?

    2. The car was sold to you with "full service history" and 45k miles. Did you just take the dealers word for that or did you ease your mind by doing a key/ECU check?


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