December to Dismember Thread

Fozzy

I thought I'd tune in to the ppv tonight just to see how it goes, first WWE event I've specifically tuned in for since Summerslam, and the first match was excellent. The Hardys and MNM had a brilliant brilliant match. About 25 minutes long, I enjoyed it a lot. First time I've seen Jeff since he was in TNA, and he seems to have improved somehow

If only Raw had matches like that every week, I'd still be watchin. So to limit any crap that WWE might try to throw at me, I'm stayin away from the tv til Punk comes on. Unless Stevie Richards happens to show up!

Deadly match though, I've missed Mercury!

Devon

Agreed. The first match was absolutely rock solid. Better than any of the SS matches last week IMHO. Just goes to show what Jeff can do when he puts his mind to it.

Jerichoholic

The tag match was ok but oh my God the rest of the show was terrible. One of the worst ppv's ever also it was the shortest. Punk who is the most over guy in ECW is eliminated first and Lashley wins the belt. The crowd chanted "Boring", "Where's our refunds", "This is bull****" and "TNA, TNA" during the main event.

Awful, awful show. The midcard matches were laughable. Surely that's the final nail in ECW's coffin. I have no more interest in seeing it again.

Fozzy

I went out for literally 30 seconds to get some food, and Punk and Holly had disappeared when I got back. Ridiculous. It was so pointless. Looks like Sabu could be gone soon too. I was giving WWE a chance to try to entertain me again, it just didn't work out

But the tag match was cool

Mr.Nice Guy

First match was good but the rest was abysmal. Worst PPV of the year quite possibly.

This was the time to make Punk look like a star after Survivor Series and he goes out first? The most over guy goes first? Idiots.

Lashley as the champion is a joke too. The guy can't cut a promo to save his life. If Show is gone now who will he feud with? Test? Dear oh dear.

The TNA chants were noticeable alright. Compared to TNA's PPV offerings, this show stunk. BAD.

I feel sorry for Paul Heyman and the other ECW originals. The Stamford airheads obviously don't give a damn about giving ECW a chance.

I mean was anyone else as amazed as I was at the lack of violence on what was meant to be an ECW PPV? Hell, the weapons in the main event were barely used and the table was used only as a way of geting out of the bloody "pod".

I think someone should shove Vince McMahon and his cartoonish ass into a "pod" and zap him the hell out of here. The guy's lost the plot me thinks.

RIP ECW.

b0bsquish

that ppv was an joke, to start it with prob the best tag team match we've seen for a year, to that just go downhill from there what was the point of taking sabu out? Is there an injury or something I dont know about? TNA have been giving me my wrestling fix for the last year or so now (its far from perfect, but hell it beats this cr*p)
I think this quote describes vinnie mac quite well at the mo....
"[SIZE=-1]Here is your pulse, and here is your finger. Far from the pulse...... jammed straight up your ass"[/SIZE]

MikeHoncho

Goodbye WWE / ECW. I no longer have any intereset in any of your programming. Lashley as ECW champion is a joke. We have guys working week in and week out busting their ass on ECW (Punk, RVD, Sabu) and you go hand the belt to a no talent bigman. Even Test is more deserving of that belt than Lashley. Lashley is over with the kids who watch Smackdown not ECW's audience. As I said I wont be watching ever again.

Vince135792003

I don't think there isn't much of the original ECW audience left, especially after last night. The weakest ppv in a long time.

WWE basically put 2 fingers up to the original ECW fans for 2 hours and a half and made them pay $40 for it.

ECW was pretty much dead having no house shows any more and falling ratings. But this really put the stamp on everything.

fatal

RIP ECW!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol at those that said that it would last just as long as the original one

Dickmcsavage

Well we all know now why they didn't advertise any other matches...because nobody would have bought it! Every match bar the main event had full rules enforced! An absolute joke!

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I mean was anyone else as amazed as I was at the lack of violence on what was meant to be an ECW PPV?

To be honest, I didn't think of that at all. I was just viewing it as another WWE ppv, from what I've read ECW is just another WWE show now, nothin else

Like I said, I'd say Sabu will be gone very soon. He was definitely scheduled to be in the main event, as there were t-shirts being sold at the ppv with him listed as being in the main event, aswell as Sandman vs Bob Holly and Elijah Burke vs Al Snow (which I would have loved to have seen). There's been reports that Sabu's been acting so unprofessional that it's as if he's trying to get fired. Only reason for him to stay is the money really

Mossy Monk

wow, i sure am looking forward to this when i get home :eek:

fatal

Mossy Monk wrote:

wow, i sure am looking forward to this when i get home :eek:

it worth watching just because it is possibly one of the worst PPVs that I have seen in a long time.The tagteam match was by far the best match of the night

Jerichoholic

It's worth seeing for research purposes, and see if it's actually worse than King of the ring 95'. Which it possibly is. I'm definetly not touching ECW ever again, what an absolute joke of a roster they have. I feel dirty for wasting 2 hours and 15 minutes of my life.

fatal

Jerichoholic wrote:

It's worth seeing for research purposes, and see if it's actually worse than King of the ring 95'. Which it possibly is. I'm definetly not touching ECW ever again, what an absolute joke of a roster they have. I feel dirty for wasting 2 hours and 15 minutes of my life.

what was wrong with kotr 95?i watched it only a few days ago and thought it was ok...

d1sc0g1rl

Don't really watch ECW much but i tuned into it last night. It was worth watching just for the Hardy's match best tag team match i've seen in a long time.Lashley as champ what a complete joke.

Vince135792003

Michaels v Bulldog at KOTR '95 was miles ahead of everything on this show.

I thought the Hardys MnM was decent but looked like a masterpiece compared to the rest . They gave them 23 minutes which was probably 5 minutes or so too much. 3 hot tags in the 1 match is a bit much for me. But they had plenty of time to waste so I can see why they did it. I'd have no problem watching them feud until 'Mania though.

The rest was just one bad match after another,

I'm not really angry with Lashley being champ. It was pretty obvious it was gonna happen given the way they have used him over the last few weeks and I think in due course he'll be given a mouth piece and turn heel. There are far worse options than him and its not like the ECW belt means a whole lot anyway. The champ of the third brand that doesn't even run independant house shows anymore.

I think what annoyed me was just how badly the other babyfaces in the match were treated ie. Sabu, Punk and RVD.

Furious-Red

what a piece of s**t. Hardys vs MNM is what the tag division use to be. When Elijah hit the stroke and when turkay hit the muscle buster there were a good few TNA chants going around also when Sabu was taking out there were a lot of Bullsh**t chants going around. thank god i recorded i think i condenced the ppv down to about an hour and a half. I would'nt be suprised to see this time next year Sabu and RVD in TNA.

RIP ECW hello WWECW

RVD420

Jaysus, I was furious to discover I recorded the wrong channel (I thought all ppvs are on 1am sky sports 1?), cos the only thing I got was cricket. And by the sounds of things that might be better to watch! ECW - RIP :mad:

Ph3n0m

Vince135792003 wrote:

Michaels v Bulldog at KOTR '95 was miles ahead of everything on this show.

er Michaels didnt fight Bulldog at KOTR 95 - he fought Kama to a time limit draw

Furious-Red

RVD420 wrote:

Jaysus, I was furious to discover I recorded the wrong channel (I thought all ppvs are on 1am sky sports 1?), cos the only thing I got was cricket. And by the sounds of things that might be better to watch! ECW - RIP :mad:

yup you were probably better off

Mossy Monk

good god. it was hideous

Dickmcsavage

Vince135792003 wrote:

I'm not really angry with Lashley being champ. It was pretty obvious it was gonna happen given the way they have used him over the last few weeks and I think in due course he'll be given a mouth piece and turn heel. There are far worse options than him and its not like the ECW belt means a whole lot anyway. The champ of the third brand that doesn't even run independant house shows anymore.

Your right, giving the title to Black Lesnar isn't the worst thing in the world. His skills in the ring show great potential IMO. Also his mic skills are improving. Maybe at a snails pace but they're improving none the less. I mean could you imagine Test as the champ? *shudders*

nacho libre

Dickmcsavage wrote:

Your right, giving the title to Black Lesnar isn't the worst thing in the world. His skills in the ring show great potential IMO. Also his mic skills are improving. Maybe at a snails pace but they're improving none the less. I mean could you imagine Test as the champ? *shudders*

I could imagine RVD or CM punk as the champion.

Gizzle

Fozzy wrote:

I went out for literally 30 seconds to get some food, and Punk and Holly had disappeared when I got back. Ridiculous. It was so pointless. Looks like Sabu could be gone soon too. I was giving WWE a chance to try to entertain me again, it just didn't work out

But the tag match was cool

You internet nerd stuck on your computer all day, you must just not WANT to be entertained by the high quality matches, intellectually stimulating consistent angles and all round entertaining wrestling of the Magnanimous WWE! Go back to your computers with the internet on them and cry to your loser friends on your...posting...thingies...webnet

Gizzle

The PPV was total muck

Ph3n0m

Gizzle wrote:

You internet nerd stuck on your computer all day, you must just not WANT to be entertained by the high quality matches, intellectually stimulating consistent angles and all round entertaining wrestling of the Magnanimous WWE! Go back to your computers with the internet on them and cry to your loser friends on your...posting...thingies...webnet

so says the guy using a computer and the internet to voice his opinion of WWE.


pot....meet....kettle

Mossy Monk

Gizzle wrote:

You internet nerd stuck on your computer all day, you must just not WANT to be entertained by the high quality matches, intellectually stimulating consistent angles and all round entertaining wrestling of the Magnanimous WWE! Go back to your computers with the internet on them and cry to your loser friends on your...posting...thingies...webnet

personal insults are a neddy no no here

Gizzle

Mossy Monk wrote:

and you're a retard

The End

All I have to say is Oh my fu*king God.

Does nobody on this thread remember HHH's anti-internet rant of two years ago?!
My post is pretty much it verbatim. Slight edits for parody's sake.

And I'm 100% aware of the irony of posting on an internet forum. To quoth Rainier Wolfcastle ".......that's the joke"

personal insults are a neddy no no here

Fozzy

Haha, I got it. I'm not goin to risk giving them another chance for a long while!

Actually..I gave Raw a chance last night. I saw Shelton and Super Crazy in the ring and thought that it could be an excellent match. It didn't even last 3 minutes. I was left wondering why I even bothered

Jerichoholic

Raw was shockingly bad last night too. WWE is in a very bad way these days, but they only have themselves to blame.

By the way, Carlito has absolutley NO TALENT whatsoever, why is he on television?

Vince135792003

Jerichoholic wrote:

By the way, Carlito has absolutley NO TALENT whatsoever, why is he on television?

He has interesting hair.

seanironmaiden

Extremely Crappy PPV. gobsmackingly bad. Punk and RVD gone before the final 3?? I spit on the person who came up with that.

Hardy's match was indeed class. The lack of extreme rules for the whole ppv was a joke. So was most things. I think though, that the crowd played a large part in the matches being boring. fair enough, they weren't that good but I thought that maybe they were a dull crowd at best. at least, I would have expected louder boring or this match sucks chants.. lol. Tazz and Styles though, I felt weren't doin a great job at making things seem interesting (as tought as it may have been )

ah, I duno.... the fact too that the entire card, bar 2 matches was left blank maybe gave people false hope of some surprise returns or somethin... so much for that.

to summarise......

BAH!

Fozzy

Jerichoholic wrote:

By the way, Carlito has absolutley NO TALENT whatsoever, why is he on television?

He also looked a lot more fat than he was the last time I saw him. I think he's got talent, not the best in the world by any means, but even the way he was booked last night was terrible, there was no reason to get behind him

seanironmaiden wrote:

I think though, that the crowd played a large part in the matches being boring

A lot of sites have been reporting that WWE muted a lot of the crowd on the broadcast. Not surprising at all

Vince135792003

Figure Four newsletter is reporting that it was Heymans idea to only book 2 matches.

Also the order of eliminations in the main event were exclusively his idea too.


Basically according to the newsletter "He wrote the entire show".

Brow

I read something completely different. I heard Vince changed a lot on the final day ie taking out Sabu, having Punk and RVd eliminated early so the crowd would have to get behind Lashley etc. Plus its said Vince is toying with the idea of only building two/three matches for every ppv and then suprising the viewers with what happens on the night. D2D was the guinea pig.

Valid points that make sense but how reliable the information is is up in the air.

Ph3n0m

Brow wrote:

I read something completely different. I heard Vince changed a lot on the final day ie taking out Sabu, having Punk and RVd eliminated early so the crowd would have to get behind Lashley etc. Plus its said Vince is toying with the idea of only building two/three matches for every ppv and then suprising the viewers with what happens on the night. D2D was the guinea pig.

Valid points that make sense but how reliable the information is is up in the air.

thats exactly what I heard. It was a dual collaboration but Vince (as usual) heavily edited Heymen, and in fact it is said that he changed the elimination order, so people would "have" to cheer for Lashley

nacho libre

I find it hard to believe Heyman wrote the entire show. There is no way he would have written Sabu out of a match that was his forte and scripted that crap finish. RVD being eliminated so early was rubbish too. He along with the Matt and Jeff Hardy were the only positives of an otherwise awful PPV. I hope RVD goes to TNA where i think he'll be appreciated as a performer.

Ph3n0m

Credit - PWTorch.com Newsletter

As previously reported on ECW.com, Paul Heyman was sent packing by Vince McMahon on Monday afternoon, the day after ECW’s generally poorly received December To Dismember hit the airwaves.

The long-time creative force and face of ECW was technically the head writer of ECW, but like all of his peers he answered to and was edited by Vince McMahon. McMahon was always either somewhat or heavily editing Heyman’s scripts for ECW TV. The PPV on Sunday was said to be a collaborative effort, however it was heavily edited by McMahon even more than usual.

Several wrestlers were aware of Heyman’s original plans for the Elimination Chamber match, but by match time, they were given different plans from McMahon. McMahon made several changes late in the game, including Sabu being removed from the match, as well as CM Punk and RVD being eliminated so early. The reasoning behind this was so that people would be forced to cheer for Lashley.

While McMahon appeared to be satisfied with the results of the event at the end of the night, by the next day he was said to have realized how bad it was and that’s when the blame game begun. After a backstage meeting lead by Vince and Stephanie Mcmahon, Heyman left the arena without saying goodbye or announcing what happened to anyone. He immediately went to the airport and flew home.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't think the issue of whether Heyman wrote the show or not really matters. The sad reality is he must conform to this new vision of ECW which Vince has and that's the real problem. Sunday's show clearly was not a typical Heyman show. Even compared to the One Night Stand events the difference was striking. There was little to no violence, the fans got screwed by the main eventer being taken out and a big bulky meathead got to play the hero. Typical sports entertainment guff.

Also, it's widely known how highly Heyman thinks of Punk so I find it hard to believe he would have had him lose from the off.

Vince135792003

Meltzer is the most reliable of all the newsletters and he should have a more clearer picture of whats going on when he publishes next week.

I wouldn't consider the torch or anything that is written by Wade Keller as a reliable source.

But whatever, the damage is done.

Fozzy

PWInsider is reporting basically the same thing too, and that McMahon is thinking of only announcing 2 or 3 matches before a ppv

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

PWInsider is reporting basically the same thing too, and that McMahon is thinking of only announcing 2 or 3 matches before a ppv

Dave Scherer. Enough said.

But seriously, I'm not saying the torch or even pwinsider is wrong. They could be totally right. I'm just pointing out an alternative and usually reliable source out there which is giving a different view.

fatal

I was reading an article on PW insider and the following extract from the article is certainly something to think about

not that long ago, a PPV main event was changed from a singles match to a four-way because it was felt that Lashley wasn't ready to be in a singles main event position. Now, he's the champion of a brand. Not sure what that says about the brand.

Mr.Nice Guy

Yeah I noticed that quote myself.^ Think it was Buck Woodward who wrote that. He makes a very good point.

Vince135792003

He's champion of the third brand in WWE's list of importance that what it says. Bob Saap of MMA fame was supposed to get the spot in ECW but when he turned it down, they gave it to Lashley.

Belts mean very little these days with perhaps only Cena's having some importance and even he defended his belt in a stupid way on Raw this week.

Reganio 2

Why was Sabu taken out of the main event? I watched the Hardyz V MNM and then went too bed seemed like a bad idea at the time.

Mr.Nice Guy

Reganio 2 wrote:

Why was Sabu taken out of the main event? I watched the Hardyz V MNM and then went too bed seemed like a bad idea at the time.

Apparently Sabu has been acting like a prick backstage and is meant to be real close to being fired. Unless your name is Randy or you possess the initials JBL then you're not going to be allowed get away with that.

Prufrock

Just saw the elimination chamber. Gotta say I'm disappointed. Switching Hardcore Holly for Sabu in an EXTREME elimination chamber doesn't seem very extreme. No inventive use of weapons. Kinda dull. Bad crowd reaction for Lashley. Kinda failed all round.

Why can't people see that Lashley won't work as champion in ECW. It just won't work. (Of course if it does work I'll feel fairly stupid about this post but I think I'm safe)

Brow

I read that as soon as Wrestlemania rolls round and Sabu inducts his uncle the Sheikh into the Hall Of Fame, he'll be walking a tight rope. Until then vince will put up with him.

I was watching the ONS2 last night and saw stark differences. You knew Heyman wrote it top to bottom (maybe the exception of JBL rant and such but still!). Anyway after hearing the opening speech where he said he'll be the 'leader of the new breed' and all I couldnt help but feel sorry for the guy.

ECW was happening with or without him basically. He stuck around to see what control he could have, he wasnt on a long term deal, he only signed a 12 month deal or something a while ago. I cant help but feel Stephanie had a hand in his dismissal somehow as theyve never got on. I hate how petty feuds get in the way of something that could really benefit the business and how the big wigs have too much of an ego to see a great opportunity lost.

So is Heyman fired? Or is he gonna rot for the remainder of his contract to keep him from ROH and TNA? anyone have any info?

Vince135792003

Brow wrote:

So is Heyman fired? Or is he gonna rot for the remainder of his contract to keep him from ROH and TNA? anyone have any info?

According to the figure four newsletter he has not been fired. He apparently has duel contracts with one for being an on air character (which he re-signed in September) and the second for being part of creative.