More Houses to be Built.

Marcais

anniec wrote:

Could not believe planning was given roll on next June just confirmed I can vote so I now know who will not get my vote!

With all this new development would new schools etc George Jones would you mind advising me when we in Charlesland will get the basic necessities such as a decent bus service ie CIE and even a post box nearest one is in the village or should I say Greystones City cause thats what it will look like with all the new developments!

Does anyone know where we can access the plans yet? nothing on wicklow.ie but then again nothing surprises me!

He'll be more than glad to address these basic issues and change the subject, low-hanging fruit I believe is the phrase. The Residents Committees are looking after getting the basics i.e. transport, post box etc. that even third world countries would expect to be in place !

daveco23

Mr Jones, you have been very quiet of late.. Speak up man! Convince us after this fiasco why anyone in this thread should vote for you come june...:D

gomarinago

Wineman wrote:

Wouldnt you say it was a tad pretentious for you to speak on behalf of the 3000+ residents of the Charlesland estate, you most certainly do not speak for me. In fact your rants are becoming tiresome, arent you the same person who tried to sell the Greystones harbour on Ebay and was mentioned in the Wicklow Times as living in Charlesland?

Well said wineman well said he doesnot speak for Charlesland Wood residents group we have discussed the matter and we would be representative of of 290 units with a membership of 720.

Sparks

we have discussed the matter and we would be representative of of 290 units with a membership of 720.

Does that mean there was a meeting with 720 adults who discussed the matter and then voted to support one particular position; or is that the "Irish Representation" where about 40% of the 600 adults and none of the 120 kids voted to elect the committee a year ago and much later the committee had a chat about the situation and decided on a position?

loyatemu

Marcais wrote:

He'll be more than glad to address these basic issues and change the subject, low-hanging fruit I believe is the phrase. The Residents Committees are looking after getting the basics i.e. transport, post box etc. that even third world countries would expect to be in place !

whats the story with the post box btw - I emailed an post back in september and got this reply:

I can confirm that we requisitioned a Collection Box for Charlesland last May, we are due to receive this box late October and will have it installed as soon as possible (within 2 weeks) of receipt.

If you need any further information contact me at ...


Regards

Gerry Quinn
Customer & Change Mananger
Naas Area Office C&D

unless they've installed it in a very obscure place, I'm guessing its been delayed...

gomarinago

daveco23 wrote:

Mr Jones, you have been very quiet of late.. Speak up man! Convince us after this fiasco why anyone in this thread should vote for you come june...:D

Mr Jones daveco if you knew anything about politics is a councillor and the council or local elections are more than 3 years away.So nobody can vote for or against Mr Jones.I think you should take time to get to knoew Mr. Jones and some of the work and achievements and contributions he has made to the area over the years thats why he has been overwhelming re elected and Fiachra here was not.I do not like his party or their politics in fact its worse FG are getting but Mr. Jones as an individual is a hard working local politician who has always acted on behalf of the local community.How many in your so called residents group 10,20,30,that sellf appoint them as spokespersons of the Residents of charlesland are you registered as a residents association? Have you a n official officer of board registered accounts?Or are you just a loosely formed lobby group.

Sparks

Have you a n official officer of board registered accounts?Or are you just a loosely formed lobby group.

Yes, because as we all know, legitimacy comes from the barrel of a civil servant's fountain pen on a B10 form.

gomarinago

Marcais wrote:

I And, as you are also well aware, opposed by Charlesland Residents Committee who, as you also know, considered all of the so called benefits to Charlesland carefully and jointly before reaching agreement.

QUOTE]
How dare you Marcais claim to speak on behalf of the Charlesland Residents Committee you must have invented a parallel committee copying our name we are in existance for 2 years now and are registered.:mad:

gomarinago

Sparks wrote:

Does that mean there was a meeting with 720 adults who discussed the matter and then voted to support one particular position; or is that the "Irish Representation" where about 40% of the 600 adults and none of the 120 kids voted to elect the committee a year ago and much later the committee had a chat about the situation and decided on a position?

Sparks I haven't a clue what youre on about ----Irish representation?? #Clarify Please Ayear ago??????
Maybe owners who have the right to vote may clarify.Census figures including kids and owner occupiers is at 1020 in the wood Our management company have provided us with alist of 43 landlords who rent the remaining properties out.

Sparks

Seriously, this is unbelievably irritating to read. I've lived in Greystones since '86 or so, and it takes until now on this site before I see any details of the planning process, when an assinine plan that lines some developer's pockets at the cost of the quality of life in the place that I live is announced as being representative of my best interests.

That that state of affairs can come about is inexcusable. No truly representative system should be that incompetent at communications, and when that's how bad the problem is, to see people taking swipes at other people because they haven't gotten all their forms filled in to be an Offical Member of the Secret Squirrel Representation Association, well it makes me want to go down to the local offices and make my representation somewhat more directly and in a far less civil and constructive tone.

Cop on and do the job already, and if you want to take swipes, go find a boxing club and get it out of your system through that means.

Sparks

gomarinago wrote:

Sparks I haven't a clue what youre on about ----Irish representation?

As in, it's not actually representative by any logical measure, but it's called that because if you squint and sodomise the english language enough, you can call it that.

Maybe owners who have the right to vote may clarify.

Hold on there a moment. Only owners have a vote? Then what's this "290 units and 720 members" malarky? Do 720 people have a vote or 290? Or is it just the 43 landlords?

You see what I mean about representation? You can't even make it clear how many people you're claiming to represent!

gomarinago

Sparks wrote:

As in, it's not actually representative by any logical measure, but it's called that because if you squint and sodomise the english language enough, you can call it that.


Hold on there a moment. Only owners have a vote? Then what's this "290 units and 720 members" malarky? Do 720 people have a vote or 290? Or is it just the 43 landlords?

You see what I mean about representation? You can't even make it clear how many people you're claiming to represent!

Twist and turn Sparks and play with language all you like

Any Residents association represents people who Own Properties thats why they are there .Hence we represent everybody who has a name on a deed.To spell it out for you as you dont be too clear on how the world works we represent husbands and wives.People and their partners who own properties jointly and in some instances best friends and brothers and sisters who have bought houses in Charlesland Wood.You cannot represent the rental sector as it is transient.In one instance we have 3 people who jointly own a duplex and live there.Maybe you cannot get your head around it.You certainly dont have a phD in stats

Sparks

Any Residents association represents people who Own Properties thats why they are there .

And that's fine (though it's an abuse of words to call yourself a Residents association when you're actually a Landowners association). It's when you say that you represent 720 or 1020 people, but there are only 290 units - and it's not clear how many of those are owned by the 43 landlords - that you're taking the mickey.

Look, clear question, give me three numbers: How many people in your association are eligible to vote; How many voted on the question of backing this plan; and how many voted for backing the plan.

You certainly dont have a phD in stats

And you clearly shouldn't be speaking on behalf of yourself, let alone anyone else if that's your idea of how to argue your case.

Sparks115

gomarinago wrote:

Mr Jones daveco if you knew anything about politics is a councillor and the council or local elections are more than 3 years away.So nobody can vote for or against Mr Jones.I think you should take time to get to knoew Mr. Jones and some of the work and achievements and contributions he has made to the area over the years thats why he has been overwhelming re elected and Fiachra here was not.I do not like his party or their politics in fact its worse FG are getting but Mr. Jones as an individual is a hard working local politician who has always acted on behalf of the local community.How many in your so called residents group 10,20,30,that sellf appoint them as spokespersons of the Residents of charlesland are you registered as a residents association? Have you a n official officer of board registered accounts?Or are you just a loosely formed lobby group.

What has that anything to do with the matter at hand....!!!! Stop changing the subject...We have a right as voters to ask questions to our elected politicians who should answer honestly or has Greystones suddenly come under a dictatorship and communist rule!!

I would also like to say that GOMARINAGO should quit while ahead and stop your bully boy tactics to other people on this thread or I will request from the moderaters that u are removed or temp struck off this thread. Shame on you on your last few comments you are a bully and a coward and I am sure the Residents association of Charlesland Grove would love to meet you and discuss your comments.

Marcais

gomarinago, I don't claim to represent anyone. Jonege, mentioned that when he met with the committee, he outlined the benefits of rezoning to Charlesland Residents Committee and I reminded him that the same committee made a submission objecting to the rezonings. I didn't make any claims otherwise.

There is admittedly a lot of confusion regarding Res. Association/ committees etc. and we are trying to address the confusion. Could we continue the discussion re. your committee by Private Message as I am not aware of your Res. Association, nor are any of my neighbours or Committee Members from the different sections of Charlesland. If you PM me a number to call you on, I would certainly like to discuss this. The committee I refer to is certainly not an invention!

gomarinago wrote:

Marcais wrote:

I And, as you are also well aware, opposed by Charlesland Residents Committee who, as you also know, considered all of the so called benefits to Charlesland carefully and jointly before reaching agreement.

QUOTE]
How dare you Marcais claim to speak on behalf of the Charlesland Residents Committee you must have invented a parallel committee copying our name we are in existance for 2 years now and are registered.:mad:

Fiachra2

gomarinago wrote:

I think you should take time to get to knoew Mr. Jones and some of the work and achievements and contributions he has made to the area over the years thats why he has been overwhelming re elected and Fiachra here was not.I do not like his party or their politics in fact its worse FG are getting but Mr. Jones as an individual is a hard working local politician who has always acted on behalf of the local community..

Actually Gomarina I was elected in 1999 at my first attempt almost entirely on the basis of my opposition to the marina. I resigned for personal reasons in 2002 and did not stand for relection at the next election. It is therfore incorrectto imply that I failed to be relected.

George is indeed hardworking and I have the greatest respect for him. However he is quite honest on the matter of representing people views. He has frequently stated the he will do whatever HE THINKS is best for Greystones and when people dont like that then they will stop electing him.

When confronted with overwhelming oposition -such as in the case of the marina- he ignores it. He is perfectly entitled to do this and the fault lies with the huge numbers of Greystones people who fail to vote in local elections.
That does not however overcome the problem that what he is doing in some instances does not have the support of the community.

gomarinago

Inch I am entitled to my views as you are yours in fact you are threatening and bullying me.The below is a clear indication of this.

INCH wrote:

I would also like to say that GOMARINAGO should quit while ahead and stop your bully boy tactics to other people on this thread or I will request from the moderaters that u are removed or temp struck off this thread. Shame on you on your last few comments you are a bully and a coward and I am sure the Residents association of Charlesland Grove would love to meet you and discuss your comments.

What last remarks? I stand by my side of the argument just you do yours you are the one that cant accept the other side another poster here has been accused of bullying and cowardice just because he too represents the same view as me you also accused another on another thread of the same its you should put up or--- shut up.I'm not afraid to argue my side.

To explain about the Situation in the Wood

Marcais I too think there is huge confusion about residents groups with one estate in particular having two.
There are six separate entities or Management Companies in Charlesland with one umbrella management company for all these this one manages the buses and the spine road area as well as formerly the S.A.R. from the mill road to the Kilcoole Roundabout it still manages the landscaping of this and all management companies pay in to it.
Each Management Company in turn has Residents committee of 10 to 12 in some cases.This comittee will in the case of the Wood take over the Management company and appoint 2 directors in March through April this is well advanced with Ballymore preparing the legal documents and snagging the estate at present.Homeowners will have 1 vote per house total 277 votes in this incidence and it will function similar the present Management Company. This is so as it is they who own the propety and pay the management fee.They will employ an agent to carry out its functions.
They will also under the planning Act 2002 be able to mandate W.C.C. to take over the roads lights and sewers as well as green areas of the estate and their running.This will save residents of the wood a huge proportion of their fee.
This done by a simple majority of residents Registered to Vote as in Local General and Presidential elections etc casting a ballot They must be registered to vote in Charlesland or Delgany N.S.2.Then by law the council must move in.This applies to the wood only. All other estate will have to get the developers to hand back individually and in their turn do the same.
Where the confusion arises is that others have set up other Residents Committes as they call them this is a 2rd committee.Which in fact should be called a Residents association which is a loosely bound organisation representative of some of the residents views with no legal standing however still quite useful as a counterbalance.This is the cause of some of the confusion here.
The residents committee Chairman in Charlesland Wood stated at their last meeting 85 in attendance that they have no affiliation to other residents groups and associations in Charlesland nor do they take any responsibility for any thing on Boards.ieYes he stated this clearly as the prime aime at present is the hand back of the wood to residents to empower them with the control of what happens in their own estate.The other committee I debated with Sparks is in fact an Association representing all owners and owner occuoiers and lobbies the management committe.The third is another group of residents who set up their own committee as they had a falling out with the second.Which begs the question Marcais and Sparks how many groups associations official and unofficial are we going to have.
The Charlesland group that met Cllr Jones did not include The'Official and legally established Wood residents committe the composition of which I explain in detail above so their views were never represented.
Sorry for going on and on but I hope I clarified a few things

Sparks

Where the confusion arises is that others have set up other Residents Committes as they call them this is a 2rd committee.Which in fact should be called a Residents association which is a loosely bound organisation representative of some of the residents views with no legal standing however still quite useful as a counterbalance.This is the cause of some of the confusion here.

A careful reading of your post indicates that you're saying that in the context of making representations of all those living in an estate, a currently existing residents association is not as legitimate as a landowners commercial body which doesn't exist yet.

Do you really think that's a valid position?

Which begs the question Marcais and Sparks how many groups associations official and unofficial are we going to have.

Logically, you're talking about two different functions. There's the commercial committee to decide how funds will be used in the up keepof the estate (which is restricted to those paying the bills - which seems fair). And there's the political body to lobby the council on behalf of the residents (which needs to include everyone in the area, be they landowners, landlords, renters or whatever). So I'd say two. I'd also say that the second group lobbying the management committee is farsical as the management committee membership will be a subset of the membership of the residents association anyway - and that the management committee lobbying anybody is unacceptable as that's simply buying influence. Which might be pragmatic, but is also technically bribery.

mikedragon32

GMG, as a resident of the Wood, I would like to say that you don't represent me. Nor does Marcais. In this matter neither of you can say you speak for me. Should I choose to object to any new developments in the area, that is my right and the right of every individual resident of the area.

Now, with my Moderator cap on... There are a couple of people here who've gone WAY off topic and you are all being warned now that if any thread can't be kept on topic, there will be week-long bannings, irrespective of how many warnings anyone has (or hasn't received) and threads will be locked.

This forum is supposed to be an informal and friendly place to discuss issues affecting those of us who live in the area. Please keep that in mind when posting. If you can't be civil find another forum.

Charlie-Bravo

Fair play Mike....I've seen too much slagging off in this thread and it has been immensely inappropriate.

As for the proposed changes to the lands as previously discussed...we have elected councillors to make decisions on our behalf. If there is a public consultation or hearing, then the public shall use their voice if they don't agree with the decisions being made. If we don't have that option and when local elections (and not general elections) come around we'll see whose going to make it back in. It's not the ideal way to do things I know!

I thank all here for making things clearer as we move forward to the future but unfortunately this thread has got bogged down in intense details. As a layman to the development/re-zoning process and all that goes with it, I would prefer lshort details and perhaps more bullet points rather than the long winded paragraphs that I have to search to find the opinion points of the individuals.

Looking back on the information, we're not that bad off with any form of development this end of town compared to the marina proposals.

B.Rubble

Agreed on last few posts.

There are a few punters here who are proporting to represent a fair portion of Charlesland. I have no idea where they think they get their mandate from, but, talking from a census of one, they certainly don't speak for me and I've never in my 2 years in C. Wood been approached by any of the above in relation to anything.

The residents can decide their opinon on the development for themsleves (individually) and don't need any self proclaimed representives for anything in this regard.

mikedragon32

okay all... Time to bring this back to the discussion... The new development.

We can all agree that nobody represents us, but ourselves and those we elected (well, those of us here long enough to have voted in the last local elections anyway). So keep to the topic, and if you can't but find that you can't access the forum, you know why. You have been warned.

Sparks

Okay, has there been any statement from the DoE or DoJ about whether or not they will take up the offer of the lands for the new school and the new garda station? Have they even been approached yet about the offer?

Marcais

Sparks wrote:

Okay, has there been any statement from the DoE or DoJ about whether or not they will take up the offer of the lands for the new school and the new garda station? Have they even been approached yet about the offer?

Not to my knowledge, and, as said below, the only certain outcome of this rezoning is that houses will be built (councillor Jones advised that it will be 168 houses).

I don't put much weight in rumours, but there's talk about a school possibly being buit on the IDA lands. Don't know much more but there is no certainty about any "facilities" being built behind us. I'd imagine that the recycling centre wil go ahead, which I am all in favour of, but to push this and other necessities upon us as "community gains is very sad in a booming economy. Proper integrated planning would insist on facilities being provided before housing and not 10-15 years later. WCC are following the mistakes made all over Dublin, houses, houses and more houses.

Fiachara asks why these proposals with all this “gain” were not included in the original draft plan...would anybody like to speculate?

You will all have received your glossy pamphlets tonight circulated by Zapi at the request of the Council with the "history" of their conscientious decision to develop their remaining lands for our benefit. The condescension is unreal. You should note that the map of Charlesland Business Park as presented by Zapi proves again that we were mislead as to 10m high warehousing backing right up to our gardens (not that this was ever going to happen)

Now I have no problem whatsoever with entrepreneurship, but I would hope that planning officials regulate in such a way as to allow for sustainable development. They cannot of course do this if overruled by Councillors.

Zapi Properties Ltd. submission on the Greystones/Delgany Local Area Plan 2006 requested:

- Rezoning from R2 to higher density (35 dwellings per hectare). This would have allowed 326 units above what the 1999 Plan allowed.

- Addition of the following "higher buildings may be permitted where presented as part of a Masterplan proposal".
- Noise standards are too onerous & should be reduced.

- That the following uses be made open for consideration: General Industry (i.e. heavy industry to be allowed)

These are the same guys telling us that they sought rezoning because it was prefreable to industry etc. etc. Have they taken gullible out of the dictionary and replaced it with c-h-a-r-l-e-s-l-a-n-d?

anniec

Did anyone else get the brochure from Zapi through the letterbox last night? Im no architect but the plans behind the park and grove look like apartment blocks with parking spaces. However they did state that they were building houses 3, 4 & 5 bedrooms.

any thoughts? If the houses are going to be built Im concerned how close they will be to the back walls as the ground level of site behind us is half way up the wall!

Any suggestions how I can get a more detailed plan and how I can object if they are too close?

A

mikedragon32

We got that. Hard to make too much out from the "plans", but unless the houses are quite small, I don't know how they'd fit them all in, as there was talk of about 260+ units.

It may be a technicality (also I didn't read it properly, just looked at the pretty pictures), but did they say houses or homes?

Marcais

anniec wrote:

Did anyone else get the brochure from Zapi through the letterbox last night? Im no architect but the plans behind the park and grove look like apartment blocks with parking spaces. However they did state that they were building houses 3, 4 & 5 bedrooms.

any thoughts? If the houses are going to be built Im concerned how close they will be to the back walls as the ground level of site behind us is half way up the wall!

Any suggestions how I can get a more detailed plan and how I can object if they are too close?

A

It is too late for your your concerns now! and, any concerns raised to the FF and FG councilors "in time" were not addressed, basically, this is to our benefit because they say it is.

The draft plans have houses backing right up to ours, doesn't matter to the councillors what you thought when you purchased your house. Fortunately, we have some decent fellow residents from in the Wood, Court, and Crescent who supported those most directly affected by the rezonings (i.e. with houses backing on to the site, and in Seabourne View).

The plans shown are of what was originally "supposed" to be there i.e Charlesland Business Park which the councillors referred to in their misleading correspondence as "The Industrial site with 10m high warehousing" backing right up to our gardens. Obviously this was never going to be the case.

ps. did anybody ever hear that Zapi were trying to attract business to this site as they say, and for FIVE years!?...call me crazy, but if I had a site available and I wanted tenants. I'd certainly consider PUTTING A SIGN UP !!! Money talks.

gstonesmx5

All and any oppinions stated to be in relation to Charlesland Wood Committee are in fact not permisable. Woods Committee will not and does not take part in online debates and is not affilated with any website. This was stated at the last AGM.

Please feel free to censor/moderate any persons claiming representation.

mikedragon32

gstonesmx5 wrote:

All and any oppinions stated to be in relation to Charlesland Wood Committee are in fact not permisable. Woods Committee will not and does not take part in online debates and is not affilated with any website. This was stated at the last AGM.

Please feel free to censor/moderate any persons claiming representation.

gstonesmx5, well done on dragging the subject off topic again.

Keep to the topic and let the moderators do their work.

anniec

ok so I rang Greystones Co Council and they confirmed that the land (behind grive and park) has been rezoned to residential and that detailed planning application has not been made for the specifics ie housing plans, but I would think it should be shortly as they are clearing the land!

A