Paul Jewell on Diving

Nalz

Let Players Dive


Whatcha thinka?

redspider

No, I dont agree with Jewell at all. Diving should be completely banned, as should ever other trick being used to con referee's and linesmen. eg: Intentional hand ball.

The big leagues should use post match video evidence to come down hard on clubs, eg: 5 dives = 1 pt deducted, the diver gets a post-match red-card. If there is a deterrent, it will stop it, I am sure. At the moment there is NO deterrent, it is rewarded if a player/team gets away with it. Thats why players are asked by Chairmen and Managers to go down, 'play for the penalty', etc. Its terrible. I dont like it at all.

And it is spreading like wildfire. Go to any u-7 match these days and you will see young lads rolling around if they get tapped on the shin, as they are copying what they see on TV. Its just got worse and worse over the decades and its one aspect of the sport which I have a particular gripe over and makes me cringe. Are we watching actors or footballers.

I would line them up and shoot them at dawn ... okay, I wouldnt, but you get my drift.

Deter, properly, and it will go away .... pronto. And that will spread throughout the game. Divers have a bad name but that doesnt stop them, and its been endemic pre-Klinsmann days, thats for sure. It may take years to earadicate it, but lets start.

Redspider

Villain

I agree Redspider, use Video evidence, ban the player and if a club can't stop its players from doing punish them.

This used to be a mans game once upon a time you know!

Paul Tergat

redspider wrote:

No, I dont agree with Jewell at all. Diving should be completely banned, as should ever other trick being used to con referee's and linesmen. eg: Intentional hand ball.

Totally agree with you here

redspider wrote:

The big leagues should use post match video evidence to come down hard on clubs, eg: 5 dives = 1 pt deducted, the diver gets a post-match red-card.

This type of system is nearly impossible to implement.

ok, sometimes its very obvious when a player has dived and i believe there should be a punishment, not as harsh as point deductions (i think tapping up is a bigger issue and chelsea weren't deducted over the Cole incident!).

However, a lot of the time its far too difficult to prove a dive...you can sometimes watch a replay from 4 different angles and its still hard to see if there has been any contact. sometimes a slight knick can cause someone, who is running at full speed, to fall over. one replay angle can almost suggest no contact and another show contact

i agree something has to be done but im not sure that video is the way forward!

MrJoeSoap

I agree with most of the things said so far, but I would use post-match video evidence. If it's conclusive, use it. If not, give the player the benefit of the doubt. Easy as that.

sundula

Stupid on Jewells part - diving should carry a tough punishment. If one or two of the principal offenders got sent off it might help.

Diving = cheating

NotWormBoy

I like Jewell, think he's alright on most things, but here he's wrong.

Allowing it would simply let it flourish since there's no reason to stop diving then.

PHB

Diving should be completely banned, as should ever other trick being used to con referee's and linesmen. eg: Intentional hand ball.

What about fouling a player to stop a break developing?
Take Ronaldo for example, he dived to win a free kick around the 38th minute against Boro, but he must have been fouled about 5/6 times, not because of a late tackle, but just because it was there only way of stopping him. Is that not just as bad as diving?

It has become part of the game, but the way Makelele plays annoys me just as much, if not more. Foul them if they are going to get past ya. I think that also should be stamped out of the game, but I'm not sure how.

p.s. I think the solution to diving is 5 match bans being implemented after the match, using video evidence.

Guy:Incognito

p_larkin99 wrote:

Totally agree with you here



This type of system is nearly impossible to implement.

ok, sometimes its very obvious when a player has dived and i believe there should be a punishment, not as harsh as point deductions (i think tapping up is a bigger issue and chelsea weren't deducted over the Cole incident!).

However, a lot of the time its far too difficult to prove a dive...you can sometimes watch a replay from 4 different angles and its still hard to see if there has been any contact. sometimes a slight knick can cause someone, who is running at full speed, to fall over. one replay angle can almost suggest no contact and another show contact

i agree something has to be done but im not sure that video is the way forward!

Dives can be fairly easily shown by the way the person falls. Next time someone runs by you on the street, trip them * and watch how they fall, it's completely different to the superman style sprawl players do where they arch their back and pull their legs up under their arse.

With the amount of cameras in use at the minute, more often than not a dive can be shown after a couple of viewings.


My other pet hates are obstruction being allowed when its a defender sheparding the ball out of play I ****ing HATE that and taking the ball into the corner to run the clock down. Their should be a line around the corner in a 5 yard radius where a free for all exists to stop players doing that.


*don NOT do this.

Paul Tergat

Stekelly wrote:

Dives can be fairly easily shown by the way the person falls. Next time someone runs by you on the street, trip them * and watch how they fall, it's completely different to the superman style sprawl players do where they arch their back and pull their legs up under their arse.

With the amount of cameras in use at the minute, more often than not a dive can be shown after a couple of viewings.


My other pet hates are obstruction being allowed when its a defender sheparding the ball out of play I ****ing HATE that and taking the ball into the corner to run the clock down. Their should be a line around the corner in a 5 yard radius where a free for all exists to stop players doing that.


*don NOT do this.

Clearly some dives are very obvious but often players who are legitimately fouled still roll around on the floor (this is just their reaction to being fouled, not a dive!) I'm not saying its acceptable but whether ronaldo dives or is fouled (which by the way happens a ridiculous amount of times during a game) he rolls around!


the point i was making was that not all dives are so obvious...do you consider a slight shirt pull a foul? its definitely enough to stop the player in full flow but if they dive to the ground then do you also penalise the "diver"?

and how much contact is needed for it to be considered a dive?

its a very grey area IMO and using video evidence will prove too difficult and too controversial!

KdjaCL

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I agree with most of the things said so far, but I would use post-match video evidence. If it's conclusive, use it. If not, give the player the benefit of the doubt. Easy as that.

What if he didnt dive and video proves it and other team wins due to fact that HE should have got a peno?




kdjac

PHB

What if he didnt dive and video proves it and other team wins due to fact that HE should have got a peno?

There's a big difference between punishing a player and changing a result

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

There's a big difference between punishing a player and changing a result

A dive changes the result if a peno is given, so if after the match the player gets a yellow card his team still won due to the dive.


kdjac

PHB

Yeh, but if he dives in the game and gets away with it, there is absolutely nothing you can ever do to change the result of the game.
The only thing you can do is punish the player.

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

Yeh, but if he dives in the game and gets away with it, there is absolutely nothing you can ever do to change the result of the game.
The only thing you can do is punish the player.

I dont see how a card after the game( that a player won by cheating) is going to do anything to stop him doing it again.


kdjac

Villain

Well I reckon the threat of a 1 match ban for first offence and 2 match ban for 2nd offence etc might put them off especially after they get a 5 match ban for their 5th offence of the season.

wheres me jumpa

Dont agree with Jewell at all.

IMO referees need to toughen up. If a referee sees a dive, book the player. So many times I have seen a referee tell a player to get up off the ground and not give a free kick....and not book him. If referees actually start dishing out cards and shaming players they will think twice about it again.

There are exceptions to this rule, such as Ronaldo last week where the ref was genuinely fooled. And I dont blame the ref, hes an expert at it now. In situations like this why cant the FA intervene? A player has broken a rule and has gone unpunished and should be punished.

There is nothing you can do about the result but compare it to a professional foul in the last minute, i.e. bring down a player through on goal, red card but danger of conceeding is removed. If a player sacrifices himself in this manner its accepted.

I think if players are punished either in the game or after both themselves and their managers will attempt to cut it out of their game.

TheMonster

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Dont agree with Jewell at all.

IMO referees need to toughen up. If a referee sees a dive, book the player. So many times I have seen a referee tell a player to get up off the ground and not give a free kick....and not book him. If referees actually start dishing out cards and shaming players they will think twice about it again.

There are exceptions to this rule, such as Ronaldo last week where the ref was genuinely fooled. And I dont blame the ref, hes an expert at it now. In situations like this why cant the FA intervene? A player has broken a rule and has gone unpunished and should be punished.

There is nothing you can do about the result but compare it to a professional foul in the last minute, i.e. bring down a player through on goal, red card but danger of conceeding is removed. If a player sacrifices himself in this manner its accepted.

I think if players are punished either in the game or after both themselves and their managers will attempt to cut it out of their game.

Still don't think the Ronaldo incident was a dive, neither was it a penalty. He stumbled at speed. What do you do in this instance? There was no contact but neither was it a dive?

Mossy Monk

Paul Jewell is an arsehole. do Wigan practice diving at training every day

Fratton Fred

I hate diving, when I was a kid we had a couple of pros from Pompey come and take a few training sessions for the team I played for. I remember them saying “If someone kicks you, you never show them it hurt, because they will just kick you again. If they kick you and you laugh at them, they will think you are a nutter and avoid you all game.

Anyway, my solution is this, in these situations (such as the incident this season when Zakora clearly dived to win a penalty for spurs) if the ref has awarded a penalty he should approach the player and ask “Did you dive or were you caught”. If the player says yes and is later proven to have lied, then they should receive an automatic ban and a fine from the club.

Saturdays incident at Arsenal would go down as “No ref, I didn’t dive, but I don’t know if he caught me or the ball first” that then puts the onus on the ref to make a decision and clears the player of any wrong doing.

Players such as Ronaldo missing for two or three games a season due to bans (Especially a champions league match) will soon make managers take action.