Change to VRT system annouced in Budget.

kluivert

It was annouced that VRT will change to CO2 basis rather than engine size to encourage the registration of Diesel operated cars.

Hopefully. When further details are annouced that it wil mean that VRT is cheaper over all.

MercMad

Mmm I cant help but be suspicious that this will end up being an increase rather than a decrease !

dubstub

Looks like motor tax will be changed to also favour lower emission cars. No details yet.

mike65

The text

In the case of Vehicle Registration Tax, I intend to change the current rating system to relate it more closely to environmental policy objectives, in this case reducing carbon dioxide emissions. I intend that there should be some reward in the VRT system for choosing lower-emission vehicles, and that those choosing higher-emission vehicles should pay more.

For that reason, I am setting out a range of options in the Budget booklet for making such a move. My Department will carry out a public consultation process on these proposals before coming back to Government. Any changes will have effect from a target date of 1 January 2008.

At the same time, my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will consult on his proposals for a complementary rebalancing of annual motor tax. This would provide a further incentive through the motor tax system for the motoring public to drive cleaner cars and would impose some additional cost in respect of cars with higher carbon dioxide emission levels. This would apply to vehicles registered on or after 1 January 2008. Underpinning both of these initiatives will be a new mandatory labelling system for cars based on CO2 emission levels.

Linking consumption taxes to environmental goals requires us to discuss the details of such moves thoroughly with stakeholders if we want to get it right.

All to play for yet.

Mike.

kluivert

Thanks Mike for that.

I didnt the deadline for 2008 though :rolleyes:

connundrum

MercMad wrote:

Mmm I cant help but be suspicious that this will end up being an increase rather than a decrease !

Car dealers are clapping themselves on the back. I bet that whatever decrease will be allowed for in VRT will be levelled out with dealer's profits.

Bah

kluivert

connundrum wrote:

Car dealers are clapping themselves on the back. I bet that whatever decrease will be allowed for in VRT will be levelled out with dealer's profits.

Bah

I knew there was a catch somewhere along the line.

They are saying the the doubling of interest relief for first time buyers will lead to house price increases.

Do you ever get the feeling that we are on the wrong side of the counter.

MercMad

Linking consumption taxes to environmental goals requires us to discuss the details of such moves thoroughly with stakeholders if we want to get it right.

........stakeholders ??

Eitherway I expect the changes to be minimal !

mike65

We're all customers, clients or stakeholders now!

Mike.

mike65

Regarding consultation over road tax, I wonder with whom such talks will take place? Sounds like us motorists need to get organised and decide what we think would be best and start making representations.

Mike.

mickoneill30

connundrum wrote:

Car dealers are clapping themselves on the back. I bet that whatever decrease will be allowed for in VRT will be levelled out with dealer's profits.

Bah

What the...? Why do you think that? Is there no competition amongst dealers or do you suppose every dealer is going to increase the price of their cars by whatever reduction in price we get from the budget? Sounds a bit daft to me.

All you need is for one dealer not to increase prices and he gets the business that the other dealers would miss out on.

Anyway we don't know if the change is going to put the price of VRT up or down yet?

unkel

:eek:

ireland.com wrote:

Cowen to consult on VRT rates


Budget 2007:The Government may consider introducing an increased rate of vehicle registration tax (VRT) of 35 per cent on large vehicles over 2400cc or else charging taxes on the basis of a vehicle's CO2 emissions.

In a consultation document published with today's Budget, Minister for Finance Brian Cowen outlined a number of options for a more environmentally friendly vehicle taxation system, which he said should be broadly "revenue neutral".

Mr Cowen said he wanted to change the current rating system to "relate it more closely to environmental policy objectives, in this case reducing carbon dioxide emissions".

"I intend that there should be some reward in the VRT system for choosing lower-emission vehicles, and that those choosing higher-emission vehicles should pay more," Mr Cowen said.

Among the options outlined are adjusting the existing bands and VRT rates to encourage the purchase of smaller cars, with a rate of 15 per cent VRT applying to cars up to 1200cc, a reduction in the current A1 rate of 22.5 per cent to 20 per cent for cars between 1201cc and 1400cc and a new band for larger engine vehicles at a 35 per cent rate.

Alternative options include a retention of the current engine size bands and VRT rates but with the application of a discount of, say, 5 percentage points, for cars with lower CO2 emissions and a levy for cars with higher emissions.

The Department of Finance will also examine next year the case for disallowing capital allowances and leasing expenses for high-emission vehicles.

The public consultation process will continue until March 1 st, with a view to implementing any tax changes from January 1 st, 2008.

At the same time, Minister for the Environment Dick Roche will consult on his proposals for a "complementary rebalancing of annual motor tax", Mr Cowen said.

"This would provide a further incentive through the motor tax system for the motoring public to drive cleaner cars and would impose some additional cost in respect of cars with higher carbon dioxide emission levels.

"This would apply to vehicles registered on or after 1 January 2008. Underpinning both of these initiatives will be a new mandatory labelling system for cars based on CO2 emission levels.

"Linking consumption taxes to environmental goals requires us to discuss the details of such moves thoroughly with stakeholders if we want to get it right."

Biro

Typical... "Oh - we're great, we're taxing cars based on emissions.... so we're introducing rates based on engine cc's..."
Silly idiots. When will they learn?

mike65

We have to educate the minister then.

Department of Finance,
Government Buildings,
Upper Merrion Street,
Dublin 2,
Ireland.

VRT Consultation PDF

Mike.

wyndham

It was only a matter of time. Look at the Mayor of London's proposals for the increase in congestion charge for large 4x4 vehicles/bigger engines. Drivers of these vehicles are going to be hit harder and harder in years to come.

peasant

Anybody noticed that these changes will take effect well AFTER half the population had ample time to grab the celtic tiger by the tail and buy themselves a swanky, bigger car?

I mean it isn't like emmission based taxation was an entirely new idea, now is it?

Or dou you really think we would have been swamped with SUV's the way we are, had this tax already existed 5-7 years ago?

Honni soit qui mal y pense

mike65

There's only one n in Honi!

Mike.

ninty9er

Well I'm broadly in favour of seachange in taxation on cars, but do not agree with any of the three proposals, which is why I'll be submitting my own.

I think the tax at point of sale should be CC based because of the amounts of fuel they pump through, regardless of emissions, but the usage tax (annual) should become emissions based. It would be quite simple for a new S-Class to use more fuel and emit less than a 15 yr old Micra

peasant

See... that's why I moved to an English speaking country and not to France ...waaay to complimacated lingo, them there Frenchies

Lex Luthor

Can anyone tell me what are the current rates of VRT and at what engine size they apply to?

Lex Luthor

its ok just found them

The following VRT rates, subject to a minimum VRT of €315, apply to Category A vehicles:

up to 1400cc 22.5% of OMSP
1401cc - 1900cc 25% of OMSP
>over 1900cc 30% of OMSP

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote:

Well I'm broadly in favour of seachange in taxation on cars, but do not agree with any of the three proposals, which is why I'll be submitting my own.

I think the tax at point of sale should be CC based because of the amounts of fuel they pump through, regardless of emissions, but the usage tax (annual) should become emissions based. It would be quite simple for a new S-Class to use more fuel and emit less than a 15 yr old Micra

None of these taxes are just, environmentally friendly or voter inspiring.
The simplist method of increasing taxes in a fair and green way is to bump up the price of petrol. That way it is the polluter who pays based on their consumption.
using an emissions based system punished cars with a high emission level regardless of whether they do 100 or 100k kilometres per year.
As for VRT - this should just not be!

Ice_Box

They still would like to hold on to engine size VRT. This is just nuts.

example...

Honda Accord 2.2 L Diesel Co2 level (g/km): 143
Current Charges: VRT (30%)

Mercedes Benz E200 1.8 petrol co2 level (g/km): 195
Current Charges: VRT (25%)

They're afraid that a reduction in car prices will cause people to buy more cars. Thats nuts too. I could probably trade in my 03 Audi for a dozen 10 year old Fiat Unos but why would I do that?

ninty9er

Ice_Box wrote:

They're afraid that a reduction in car prices will cause people to buy more cars. Thats nuts too. I could probably trade in my 03 Audi for a dozen 10 year old Fiat Unos but why would I do that?

It's not people buying multiple cars, but more people buying new cars, while this would increase tax revenue, it would also fu<k the whole battle with inflation.

I have considered the dropping of cc for emissions and can see the advantages, but it is entirely possible for that Micra I mentioned earlier to pollute more with less petrol which is why it's also not without it's faults.

So basically if you want to pay €3 a litre for diesel or add 2% to the lower rate of PAYE you could drop VRT, but it's more politically edible to have an extra tax on the "product" (being the registration) than the use of it....same principle as stamp duty I suppose. a lot more popular than water sq footage annual rates

Funxy

Lex Luthor wrote:

its ok just found them

The following VRT rates, subject to a minimum VRT of €315, apply to Category A vehicles:

up to 1400cc 22.5% of OMSP
1401cc - 1900cc 25% of OMSP
>over 1900cc 30% of OMSP

And even those figures are the biggest load of trash i've ever seen. 30% my ass. I would be happy if we were charged 'only' 30% of the price but don't forget the revenue can do anything they want. If they are allowed bring in an even higher vrt quote for bigger engines it just means they'll be able to rip us off even more.

MercMad

I dont think taxing fuel is the way to go, what about some elderly couple who are never going to buy a new car, they will pay more for fuel just to reduce the VRT for folk who don't want to pay it on new cars !!



I object strongly to any capacity based system, if you buy one of those Lexus 400h Hybrids, or an Hydrogen powered 7 series ( :eek: ) you'll pay a higher rate !!

I suppose they could redesign it in a uniformed way but an emmision based system would be best............it has to be one or the other and not a mixture of any of the three suggestions...........thats ridiculous !

MercMad

Mike is right, thanks for the link, we need to start lobbying and we need to decide what the best set up is !

WE are the motorists, the road users, the buyers and we have a few months to make a point ! I reckon we should post detailed suggestions here, and when we have it refined and agreed, then we all send in the same suggestion !

Mike...........how about a sticky !!

BTW how do they know what our total emmissions are year to year ? Is this detected and recieved from the NCT reports and is this the sole way to compile the information ?

One last point, I recall that the majority of Jap import cars did not reach the same emmission standard that we had in this Country yet I didn't see the Revenue objecting, or taking even more cash from this source. They saw the idea of recieving HUGE sums of money on USED cars so appealing that emmissions never entered their decision then !! Now the levels have risen and they are in trouble over the Kyoto thing for which IMO they should not have signed up for !

Check this out ..........

"The average emissions of new cars entering the State’s national fleet in 2005 were 167g CO2
per km, with CO2 emissions from new petrol cars at 166g CO2 per km or approximately 3%
3
(five grams) less than for diesel vehicles at 171g CO2 per km. It must be noted that there is
significant variation in the emissions of similar engine sized cars. While, for a given engine
size, diesel cars tend to produce less CO2 than petrol cars, nevertheless, diesel cars tend in
general to be larger than petrol cars. Although diesel cars may produce less CO2 than similar
sized petrol cars, they produce higher emissions in other areas."

Mc-BigE

want to find out the Co2 emissions of your car?

http://www.smmtco2.co.uk/co2search2.asp

E@gle.

Lex Luthor wrote:

its ok just found them

The following VRT rates, subject to a minimum VRT of €315, apply to Category A vehicles:

up to 1400cc 22.5% of OMSP
1401cc - 1900cc 25% of OMSP
>over 1900cc 30% of OMSP

i just paid my VRT the day before the budget. E315 for a 1.3

kluivert

Can we start a lobby here please and post ideas, then the best ideas will be forward as invited to the minister with our proposals.

You must read there invitation in order to understand what they are looking for.

I have read it and there is too many restrictions in my opinion.

Ie They dont want to get rid of the tax bands.

I compared my cars CO2 emmissions

1.4 1999 Opel Astra petrol 188 g/km
2.0 1999 VW Golf Diesel 143 g/km

Yet you will be a larger VRT bill on the diesel because of the size of the engine. Minister what incentive are you talking about.????

There other point noted was that they cant introduce a new system as this will be complicated. Excuse me minister the information is already widely available.

So my idea, the minister wants to keep tax bands but introduce it on the basis of co2 emissions.

You dont need to be a rocket engineer to work this one out.

Change size engines to CO2 levels. regards of engine size, car size. This will encourage people to buy cleaner cars.

100 - 120 g/km VRT @ 12.5%
121 - 130 g/km VRT @ 15%
131 - 140 g/km VRT @ 17.5%
141 - 150 g/km VRT @ 20%
151 - 160 g/km VRT @ 22.5%
161 - 170 g/km VRT @ 25%

Ok the rates and bands would need to be examined, but you get the point.

In relation to recycling of old cars. All cars should be recycled as outlined in Europe.

Biro

How about a Subaru Impreza WR1.... 265 g/kg... 2 litre!!
Exact same as a 4 litre tdi A8....
Going by engine cc is just stupid.