Pilot training in Ireland.

Plug

Ok here goes, im in my last year of school and strongly thinking about doing a pilot training course, has anyone here have any experience or know anyone doing it? It costs €75000 or there abouts to do it in Waterford which is a lot of money but I think AIB has teamed up and are now offering loans to trainee pilots. Could someone give me a bit more information for a push start.
Thanks in adavance.

Darren:)


P.S. Mod's feel free to move this as i didn't know a suitable place for this topic.

Dave!

woah that's alot...

Do you need any particular qualifications to do that, do ya know? A degree or anything?

KdjaCL

Go to Italy....


only costs €5000 there


EDIT/ i was told that a while ago and put it in the most useless hings i need to know bin.... there ayh go not so useless..

kdjac

Plug

Thats wrong! The cheapest in €65000 in south africa as far as i know, are you sure its not €50000?

Dave!

KdjaCL wrote:

Go to Italy....


only costs €5000 there


EDIT/ i was told that a while ago and put it in the most useless hings i need to know bin.... there ayh go not so useless..

kdjac

Sold.

1 pilot's licence please.

TempestSabre

Do the medicals first. If you pass them then look at it. Also check out http://www.pprune.org forums. Tons of info over there.

Pherekydes

Join the Air Corps as a cadet and get trained for free.

Plug

I don't have 9 years!

Ruu_Old

Have a look at these forums and see if you can find anything useful to help you along.

wba88

KdjaCL wrote:

Go to Italy....


only costs €5000 there


EDIT/ i was told that a while ago and put it in the most useless hings i need to know bin.... there ayh go not so useless..

kdjac

if true that would be the perfect example of rip-off ireland.
i didnt think that a pilot course cost that much money:eek:

Plug

wba88 wrote:

if true that would be the perfect example of rip-off ireland.
i didnt think that a pilot course cost that much money:eek:

€75000 more like!

mloc

It is an extremely expensive form of education. A friend of mine has his license and is now trying to get commerical training. The amount of money he has invested in learning to fly is enormous.

TempestSabre

Slow coach wrote:

Join the Air Corps as a cadet and get trained for free.

You'd have a better chance of doing the lotto.

Plug

mloc wrote:

It is an extremely expensive form of education. A friend of mine has his license and is now trying to get commerical training. The amount of money he has invested in learning to fly is enormous.

I think €75000 and 12-14 months you should have a full pilots liesence for commerial airlines.

TempestSabre

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207270

sdanseo

Just be aware that a Class One medical is rather...invasive

Pherekydes

TempestSabre wrote:

You'd have a better chance of doing the lotto.

Hardly a fair comparison. Anybody can walk into a shop and buy a ticket.

Plug

sdonn_1 wrote:

Just be aware that a Class One medical is rather...invasive

whats this you speak of?

Pherekydes

http://flightphysical.com/Exam-Guide/Hx/Med-HX-18.htm

TimTim

I thought aer lingus had some sort of trainee school but google says thats a distant memory. But it did turn up this http://www.skoool.ie/skoool/parents.asp?id=3719

Should answer some questions!

Although personally before you leap into something like that I think you should start off smaller and get your private pilots license first! I already have one hour of flight time although winter is currently hindering further progress. :mad:

TempestSabre

Slow coach wrote:

Hardly a fair comparison. Anybody can walk into a shop and buy a ticket.

True LOL.

StickyMcGinty

thats a joke isnt it? on of the forums said it would cost the guts of 100g no matter what your qualifications are!

Terry

€10,000 for a private pilots licence.
http://www.nfc.ie/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=29

MojoMaker

Whene you add all incidental expenses up, including an aircraft type rating, it costs about €100-120,000 for a frozen ATPL via the integrated method. You then have to be, borrow, or steal line time on your rated aircraft while earning a measly €20k as a junior FO (if you can even find a job - more piilots than jobs in Europe right now). You could elect to do your ATPL on a modular basis whiich at least allows you to work while paying for part time training.

Whole thing could be done in 24-30 months part time, and probably for about €40,000 if you chose the right FTO.

Owen

MojoMaker wrote:

Whole thing could be done in 24-30 months part time, and probably for about €40,000 if you chose the right FTO.

As a Pilot (PPL) I can tell you right now all 40k will get you is a Multi engine, IR and Night Ratings. You will have to spend approx 100k to be a commercial Pilot.

dead air

South Africa and Florida (to the best of my knowledge) are the places where you'll get best value for money to learn to fly for your commercial licence. My advice would be to book yourself an introductory flying lesson for after christmas and take the opportunity to talk to the instructor about how they went about learning to fly. It's good to talk to someone in the business to get an idea as to what ratings and licences you will need to fly commercially in this country (presuming you want to make a career out of it). They'll have a better idea as to how much it should cost and where are the best (or worst) places to go.

All the best

MojoMaker

ned78 wrote:

As a Pilot (PPL) I can tell you right now all 40k will get you is a Multi engine, IR and Night Ratings. You will have to spend approx 100k to be a commercial Pilot.

You've got to shop around. I did hour building in France for €70ph. Worked out pretty cost effective. The individual courses themselves can be taken in Oxford, Jerez, or BGS for fairly little money once you have the hours behind you (compared to going integrated where you pay top whack for everything).

damo

I'm training with PTC waterford starting from January and i gotta say a couple of things about the 75k price tag:

1/ It includes flights and accommodation to Florida where for the first 10 weeks of the course you spend training at the Flight Safety Academy (FSA) in Vero Beach. FSA is considered the finest FTO in America.

2/ It includes your accommodation for your entire time spent (over a year) in Waterford.

3/ It includes your headset(expensive) and training manuals

Taking all these into consideration plus PTCs reputation for a high standard of flight instruction it is a competitive price.

damo

P.S

The notion that you could get a JAA CPL for 5k anywhere in the world today is complete BS

il gatto

I know two people who have become commercial pilots in the past few years. One guy financed his own training (expensive) and then spent a couple of years searching for a job. He eventually got in with some short haul carrier flying 50 seater TurboProps.
The other guy trained with Aer Lingus, but after September 11, they told the trainees that, although they felt obliged to complete their training, that no jobs would be available on qualification. He ended up flying short haul BA 146's and the like around the far east, with a Vietnamese airline.
Even though the guy who paid for his own training eventually found a job, the guy who went to Aer Lingus was told that during the application and interview process, it was best not to mention the dozen or so hours he spent in Cessnas and Pipers. Apparently, alot of airlines prefer a candidate fresh to flying, with no preconceptions, bad habits or big notions.
Try it out, but if you go the airline route, keep quiet about it.

cianr

I just finished training recently with Flight Training Europe in Spain. Ive just been offered a job in the UK. Its a lot of money but its a good investment in the long term - check out the Pilots Job Network for an indication.

damo

cianr wrote:

I just finished training recently with Flight Training Europe in Spain. Ive just been offered a job in the UK. Its a lot of money but its a good investment in the long term - check out the Pilots Job Network for an indication.

Congrats on the job Cian, I hope i find one that quick after training!

jimi_t

Friend of mine is over in North Bay, Canada at the moment training for a commercial licence. He did a lot of research and he said it was the cheapest and the easiest to transfer the licence over to Europe (or something along those lines). It's costing him something like 40k for the year (euro)

MojoMaker

Where can you / who said you could get a CPL for 5k? Sign me up (again), lol

The beauty about the integrated path is that it's all spoonfed to you, easier for the ones with poor study discipline - you also complete it in a faster time. However you carry a much larger debt and you don't get the chance to hour build in interesting locations, which is all part of the experience.

Treating PTC (or anywhere else) as a shortcut to the airlines would be a mistake. If you're not into the actual flying you're wasting your time signing up. Two mates of mine spent the money in Jerez and found out a couple of years later that airline work was unbelievably mind-numbingly regimented and boring. Airline pilots these days are treated like little more than operators and are at the absolute mercy of their employer. I'd recommend you spend at least a week reading as many threads as you can on pprune - you might find it a real eye opener.

However, the good news is that outside of airlines there are satisfying careers in the flying game, but you've got to love the flying. If you don't then don't even consider becoming a pilot. If you only think you do then don't consider becoming a pilot. If you don't have a backup career (not just a random degree) then don't consider becoming a pilot. It ain't the 60s anymore.

TempestSabre

I don't really go with the "..its not worth doing unless you love it..." or the "..you're only a drone..."

You could say that about majority of the jobs people have. They don't get paid pilots wages though. Yes its tough starting out, but most jobs are. The main difference is that since direct entry cadet ships have all but gone, its very expensive to get qualified. I know quite a few pilots and the rewards are definitely there.

Sam_irl

You should try and get apprenticeship with an airline for pilot. Most small airlines like private jets with hiring options of cessenas and learjets are best to start with. Call private companies in Shannon, Dublin and smaller airports around Ireland too.

ArphaRima

Oxford and Jerez are good places to start. I think if you seriously want to work for an airline(where you will make good money), then avoid unknowns. Train where airlines send their cadets(Aer Lingus, British Airways, British Midland, SAS, Finnair, etc.). It helps to train the way they train too, ie ab-initio, not distant learning or modular. It is a job involving a lot of snobbery to begin with, especially for the flag carriers.

Also, stay away from small jobs like crop-spraying, parachute jumping etc, even if you are broke. It will work against you if you apply to any of the non-low fares or national airlines. They see it as experience in what not to do in an airliner.

Above all train in a recognised school, pass your exams, and do it in a timely fashion. Rich kids who pass on their 10th attempt get no decent jobs.

The other guy trained with Aer Lingus, but after September 11, they told the trainees that, although they felt obliged to complete their training, that no jobs would be available on qualification. He ended up flying short haul BA 146's and the like around the far east, with a Vietnamese airline.

I have a feeling that you have quite a few different people and stories badly mixed up there. I know people who fly in Vietnam, fly/flew BAE 146's and were let go from Aer Lingus temporarily (they are being re-hired right now), but nobody who had it all happen.


If you've any questions you can PM me.

hunnymonster

OP, why do waterford send you to Florida for ground school? Surely it would be more important to be there when you are actually flying and need dependable weather?


I assume the 5k in Italy was for a private license?

Be careful if you choose the Africa or USA route. To fly in europe you'll need a JAA license.

A couple of posters have promoted the modular route. If you choose this, you hould be aware that all other things being equal, the airlines will not choose you.

damo

hunnymonster: PTC send you to Florida where you receive your JAA PPL & 150 structured flying hours + lots of groundschool.

cianr

Congrats on the job Cian, I hope i find one that quick after training!

Thanks Damo! Send me a pm when you finish training and Ill let you know if I know of anything going - half these jobs dont seem to be widely advertised!

Plug

damo wrote:

I'm training with PTC waterford starting from January and i gotta say a couple of things about the 75k price tag:

1/ It includes flights and accommodation to Florida where for the first 10 weeks of the course you spend training at the Flight Safety Academy (FSA) in Vero Beach. FSA is considered the finest FTO in America.

2/ It includes your accommodation for your entire time spent (over a year) in Waterford.

3/ It includes your headset(expensive) and training manuals

Taking all these into consideration plus PTCs reputation for a high standard of flight instruction it is a competitive price.

How many hours will I have to fly before I actually become a fully quailified commerical pilot? Is that included in the 13 months in Waterford, thats were I was thinking of doing it. Also what are these lot? PPL & 150 structured flying hours.
Thanks in advance;)

goldwing

sdonn_1 wrote:

Just be aware that a Class One medical is rather...invasive

why do u say dat?

pclancy

I dont know personally how many hours you'll need but the way they say structured house building probably means during the course you complete the required number of hours needed for each licence. PPL is private pilots licence and I do know you need 40+ for that, CPL and ATPL must be way more but it looks like thats part of the course according to their site.

Why not just give em a buz if you're serious about it and need to know more.

CyberGhost

Hey what about the Army? if you join the army to become an army pilot, do you still have to pay that insane amount of money?

Plus flying military jets/helis beats the hell out of flying passenger crap.

TempestSabre

The army doesn't have multi engined aircraft does it?

il gatto

The Air Corps have Kingair which are twin engined turboprops, as well as the goverment jets.
fluffer, I may be mistaken on the aircraft in question, but I was using it as an example of the class he started flying, as opposed to the other guy, who flew ATR 42's and Fokker F50's. The friend who works in Vietnam told me the story as I recounted it, when he was home last summer. I have no reason to doubt him as I've known him for fifteen years, but he may not have gone into all the details, and he may still be in contact with Aer Lingus. Having said that, he qualified five years ago, and never spent a single hour in the cockpit of an Aer Lingus aircraft. As Meatloaf said, two outta three ain't bad.

TempestSabre

The Air Corps Support the Army. The Army doesn't have aircraft of its own does it? I don't know I'm only asking.

il gatto

The Air Corps are the army. They are just a Corps, like other armies have armoured corps or medical corps etc.

pclancy

From their website....

THE AIR CORPS MISSION

To contribute to the security of the State by providing for the Military Air Defence of its territorial integrity and to fulfill all roles assigned by Government through the deployment of a well motivated and effective Air Corps.

INTRODUCTION

The Air Corps is the Air Component of the Defence Forces and it has its legal basis in Para 18 of the Defence acts 1954 to 1987. Since its was formed in 1922 is has undergone many changes structurally and technologically. It is partly due to the requirement to stay abreast of the new technologies in aircraft, but also due to the increasing range and diversity of missions which the Air Corps is tasked.

PRIMARY ROLES OF THE AIR CORPS

In Support of the Army

In Support of the Naval Service

In Aid to the Civil Power

SECONDARY ROLES OF THE AIR CORPS

Aid to the Civil Community


To sum up- they support and they aid Not really much of a threat to anyone when we dont have any combat jets or properly armed aircraft but then again why bother with that seeing as we dont exactly have anyone threatening us and have defence agreements with NATO and the RAF Let them waste billions on warplanes...

cianr

If you are thinking of going down the military route (it used to be 9 years full time, followed by 3 part time) then you should check out this forum.

Plug

cianr wrote:

If you are thinking of going down the military route (it used to be 9 years full time, followed by 3 part time) then you should check out this forum.

No I was hoping to do the PTC, much shorter. Any info on that?