Somefink abaht SnM and Exams and Studying over the Summer

Sangre

Byrno wrote:

This situation wouldn't have occurred if there were Autumn repeats

The situation also wouldn't have occurred if you'd passed first time round.

If this lack of Autumn repeats is so truly awful maybe first time pass rates will go up.

Stabshauptmann

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

It's so simple, keep August exams. Why is it been changed? For lecturers, the college's bank account and NOT for the benefit of students. It makes me sick.

It makes life easier for a lot of us. For travelling and working.

If you choose to put off study till the last minute thats a choice, you cant blame the college for dividing your last minute studies.

Jeez I've hardly had time to study my 2 exams this Christmas and I've had no exams to carry over. If I did I'd be buggered to the max!

I have an active social life, including a girlfriend, am active in 3 societies (I run one), and am very very active in student representation. I somehow find time to study for my 5 final year exams, along with completing my continuous assesment (65% accross the board) and post regularly on boards.
How can you not find time to study for 2 exams?

but I know for a fact that 99.9% of students will not be studying for an exam 4 months before they take it.

They have the option, and it beggers belief when ppl say theres less time. The time is there, use it or dont, its a choice

Stepherunie

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

You lost me there, if your penultimate year counts as 30% of your degree, and lets say you have 12 exams, 6 each sitting, thats only 2.5% of your degree. Which you'll have to do alongside exams worth 35% of your degree.

And if you're capped at a pass then its only worth 1% of your degree.

I don't sit 12 exams - I sit 9 modules that count for my degree in third year.

Each subject is also weighted differently in my course.

You are capped at a pass which means you lose marks from your degree and can only obtain a pass in that subject for your degree. And excuse me if I'm of the opinion that every percentage of towards my degree no matter how small is worth it to be given the opportunity to do my repeats separately to my ordinary exams. I don't see why any time should be taken away from subjects that I don't automatically get a pass in to study for a subject that I could have had an autumn repeat in had I been allowed.

Sangre

You're talking as if someone is forcing you to do repeats.

panda100

Byrno wrote:

This has resulted in me and a fair few others in the class having to repeat these exams now at Christmas along with our normal Christmas exams.

Theres 36 of us in total repeating BMD.That is a fair fraction of the class.Everyones leaving aside other subjects to pass it.I can just see an accumulative effect happening here with students having a never ending cycle of repeat exams.

Byrno wrote:

It has led to a situation where I have to leave two of my exams aside to focus on passing my repeats.
.

Your leaving only two aside?I have left all four aside and I only repeating one subject!Many people are repeating 4 and its not cos they didnt study.

I studied in the summer anyway for my one repeat subject cos I knew I had to pass it in December. So now ive been stressing since June for an exam that I failed by a couple of percent (got 45%).Its been 7 monthe of worry all over the summer and all during term time. I wish I could have just got it out of the way on August.I didnt get a decent summer anyway cos I was studying for this exam.

The repeat situation is definaly a huge factor in why Ive only been out a handful of times this semester.

Im definatly brinign this up at the health science programe board meeting becuase from what I can see this doesnt benifit the lecturers or the students.

Stabshauptmann

Do you honestly expect me to believe you dont know what "lets say" means? You dont understand the use of hypothetics and simplification?

If you are of the opinion that 1% of your degree deserves the same time and effort as 5.8% (in the hypothetical scenario, hence the "lets say" qualifier) then any arguements Im making about time management arent going to be of any use.

gubbie

And one thing I'd really like an answer to that I've asked many people but have failed to be given an answer:

If you fail your exams at Summer and have to carry them forward to Xmas, what happens if you fail again? Do you go back into 2nd year after have being a 3rd year. It'll get very messy that way

Byrno

panda100 wrote:

Everyones leaving aside other subjects to pass it.I can just see an accumulative effect happening here with students having a never ending cycle of repeat exams.

That is my worry too. Though hopefully it can be broken at Summer when it shouldn't be as bad for exams.

panda100 wrote:

Your leaving only two aside?I have left all four aside and I only repeating one subject!

Well there are two that I am forgetting about completely, the other two I'll give a stab at. But I'm not too worried about passing them.

Stabshauptmann

In the old commerce system, you can repeat again, with certain limitations like changes in course or the amount of subjects you are carying. But I did know one russian who had passed 3rd year and was repeating a first year exam.

Stepherunie

I am well aware of what you said Redeye.

And excuse me for thinking that every part of my degree is worth being allowed to complete it without the pressure of having to repeat.

Oh and Sangre: No noone is forcing me to take repeats but if I were to fall ill *touch wood* and was unable to sit my exams I would have to sit the exam without prejudice at the next exam session at which it was offered which would be next Christmas.

Autumn exams were never there for those who simply didn't pass exams as I had previously pointed out.

Byrno

Sangre wrote:

The situation also wouldn't have occurred if you'd passed first time round.

I was going to reply about what you could do with that comment and where you could stick it but I think I'll just quote panda instead:

panda100 wrote:

Many people are repeating 4 and its not cos they didnt study.

Medicine is a tough enough course to pass without throwing in society/club/SU work/a life. So please don't be as condescending are you are being without knowing the various situations that other posters are in.

Chakar

Zane said that he was having trouble studying for TWO exams.What are you doing with your time? Working or something?

I've six exams and I have to say I'm not sure how they will go either.Hopefully they will be grand.

dajaffa

Here, the whole no autumn repeat thing is in place so the academics have time for research.

Though it can work out alright for some courses, it is a huge issue for some courses such as the health sciences and vet. I'm not going to bore people with the details but some modules have to be passed before placement, so it can easily result in someone losing a year, even if the only reason they have to repeat is say illness.

Also, the system is much tougher if you fail at summer rather than Christmas. If say you were sick, had 3 incomplete modules at summer you lose a year.

One good thing is that even if you are sick, if you've performed well in the in-course assessment, you could have passed a module already, but again, us health sci folk kinda loose out as we have 50% pass marks + pass by compensation is usually 45%, so you would have to got 90% (assuming the end exam is 50%) to pass, rather than 60/70% as is the case with other courses.

I'm a class rep, + I'll be making sure to tell ppl not to fail the summer stuff cause basically it can cause a whole lot of bother.

Stepherunie

*Nods head*

That's not even the case in my year where continuous assessment is only 30% in every course bar one which actually has no final exam though credit where credit is due to Dr. Anthony Staines who was more than willing to accommodate students who were on placement and had difficulties handing projects in on time.

Nothing seems anymore to be geared towards the benefit of students - it's all about league tables most of which rank research output far more highly than how a college treats it's students.

Chakar

Third level education is going that way anyway its all about the post-industrial society in which there has been a rise in 'theoretical knowledge' among people in a post-industrial societies such as Ireland in which specialised knowledge and skills are rewarded quite highly.

I would say the labour movement as in the early days of the industrial society is now redundant and the student movement is in many ways like the labour movement back then.Many theorists agree on that such as Bell and Kuman.

When you think about it the university is the factory of knowledge and as such its importance will increase.

cast_iron

gubbie wrote:

Heres a stastic-70% of people fail 3rd year elec exams first time round.

That's incorrect.

It may well have being correct 5 years ago, but not today. They do aprox 15 courses in 13 subjects.

Blush_01

Chakar wrote:

Zane said that he was having trouble studying for TWO exams.What are you doing with your time? Working or something?

I've six exams and I have to say I'm not sure how they will go either.Hopefully they will be grand.

Conor, it's none of your business what he's doing with his time. As for the "working or something" comment, some of us do have to work in order to finance being in college. That's none of your business either.

Kap, read your initial post. You lauded the lack of Autumn repeats as a way of letting people work and enjoy their summer, then you later backtracked and complained that people should be using their summer to study even though they won't be doing the exams until Christmas, which is 6 months later. Now, I don't know about you, but I find that if I'm to have the information fresh and clear in my head there's no point in revising in the summer for the exams, because I'll have forgotten most of it. I'll know the basic outline, but the finer details all have to be refreshed within the few weeks coming up to the exams. I could spend the 6 months going over and over the information, but at the end of the day I'll still have to spend the same amount of time studying in the lead up to that exam for said exam, and I'll have wasted almost 6 months. Add this extra study at the worst possible time, when you're tackling half your annual quota of exams and you're asking for trouble.

As for the Russian repeating one first year exam in third year, can you not see something inherently wrong with this? If not, you need to reevaluate things.

Also, please spare us your bs about time management. You've won yourself no favours with this move Podge. You're really going to have to start thinking more like a politician.

Stepherunie

Actually something I just remembered:

Some courses are prerequisite courses for getting through to the following year - I know there's one in Physio as I remember Dajaffa telling me about it.

Thus some students basically have one shot at passing the exam or else have to repeat the year - even if the course is 10 credits or less. Now how is that fair?? Especially if one was sick - why should you be made to repeat the year and pay fees for the priviledge if you were sick.

That is the problem with no Autumn repeats it does not allow for the flexibility that is needed to allow students with genuine reasons for missing an exam to not be disadvantaged - one of the few things that was always the great pinnacle of why the college exam system was so much better than the leaving certificate.

Chakar

Blush_01 wrote:

Conor, it's none of your business what he's doing with his time. As for the "working or something" comment, some of us do have to work in order to finance being in college. That's none of your business either.

I was merely curious Una he can speak for himself you know.

dajaffa

Stepherunie wrote:

Actually something I just remembered:

Some courses are prerequisite courses for getting through to the following year - I know there's one in Physio as I remember Dajaffa telling me about it.

Yep, the clinical module in 1st year. Technically, not a "must-pass" to get into 2nd year, just a pre-req for every core module in 2nd year! Luckily in this case most of the marks are for a one-week placement and work handed in relating to it. Granted, if you were sick for that wee you'd be absolutely screwed as the placement would have to be repeated + there is huge demand for placement places cause in Ireland today there has been a huge increase in course places, but a decrease in physios employed by the public sector which provide the vast majority of placement places. Don't get me started on that one, I get all angry, followed by depression as there's no jobs for me

gubbie

Stepherunie wrote:

Actually something I just remembered:

Some courses are prerequisite courses for getting through to the following year - I know there's one in Physio as I remember Dajaffa telling me about it.

Thus some students basically have one shot at passing the exam or else have to repeat the year - even if the course is 10 credits or less. Now how is that fair?? Especially if one was sick - why should you be made to repeat the year and pay fees for the priviledge if you were sick.

I just remembered myself something-there will still be Autumn repeats for certain cases. I'd say something like this would fall under it. If you're gonna have it for some, why not for all

I'm still against the demolishing of Autumn repeats though! At least give us the option.

Edit in response to Dajaffa:

dajaffa wrote:

I get all angry, followed by depression as there's no jobs for me

I'll go Tai Chi some peoples asses and hurt them so as to give you a job

Chakar

dajaffa about the jobs thing is the physio degree recognised in the UK and America?

I know it would be good to get a job here in Ireland maybe in the future.

Jonny Arson

I really shouldn't have to answer this petty question but yeah, having only 2 exams sounds great on paper but if you look deeper that means I've already completed 4 of my semester modules. I underestimated just how much coursework I had to complete during the past 3 weeks to complete these 4 modules. (this is my first proper semester under S&M) It's my problem at the end of the day but too much was piled on us towards the end of the semester instead of been more spread out over the semester and as a result I had to ignore studying for my 2 exams until this Tuesday, and now there's no textbooks in the library! If I had a vital repeat exam on top of everything I had already I'd struggle. At the end of the day we all have different life circumstances, we all have different levels of priorities be it your degree, work, family, social life or generally drinking every night! No one should raise any eyebrow to what some people can or can't do.

Chakar

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

I really shouldn't have to answer this petty question but yeah, having only 2 exams sounds great on paper but if you look deeper that means I've already completed 4 of my semester modules. I underestimated just how much coursework I had to complete during the past 3 weeks to complete these 4 modules. (this is my first proper semester under S&M) It's my problem at the end of the day but too much was piled on us towards the end of the semester instead of been more spread out over the semester and as a result I had to ignore studying for my 2 exams until this Tuesday, and now there's no textbooks in the library! If I had a vital repeat exam on top of everything I had already I'd struggle. At the end of the day we all have different life circumstances, we all have different levels of priorities be it your degree, work, family, social life or generally drinking every night! No one should raise any eyebrow to what some people can or can't do.

Yeah that explains it.But unfortunately people do raise their eyebrows about what some people do I guess its because people have different experiences anyway.

AngelofFire

Im so dissapointed, when i read the title of this thread i thought they were referring to the good Kind of S n M and not the bradyisation of our university, i think that the sabbatical officers have been very poor in adressing the issues, dan hayden opposed a motion before Union council which condemned the abolition of august repeats, brian doyle claims that persuading the college to go back on their plans is not acheievable, that just shows laziness if not reluctance on their behalf.

Villaricos

Stepherunie wrote:

Actually something I just remembered:

Especially if one was sick - why should you be made to repeat the year and pay fees for the priviledge if you were sick.

do mean just sick(eg Flu) or out for a few weeks serious kinda sick? because if your out officially you dont have to pay fees. I didnt.

I like the Sand M system. I never had to do repeats (by the skin of my teeth!) but I dunno I think there was a "ah sure its grand, theres repeats" atititude about college and phasing that out cant be all that bad. At the end of the day the exam system can never really be fair because anything can thorw you off on the day its just we're all so used to having the fallback of repeats. theyre less of an option now but sure no one ever complained there wasnt a repeat Leaving Cert and Im sure people get sick during that too.

Im not that stressed about finals at mo because I worked from the start of term. I studied rather than crammed so now Im just revising.
the reason we're all complaining is because its change and no one likes change.

dajaffa

Chakar wrote:

dajaffa about the jobs thing is the physio degree recognised in the UK and America?

UK yes (but job situation's not great, pay not good over there either), the US don't have physios, a few different occupations cover different areas of our work, it's actually meant to be quite difficult working over there, Oz is the place to go, but you need experience to get a proper visa at the mo...

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

just how much coursework I had to complete during the past 3 weeks

The amount of in-course assessments in the last few weeks across the board was disgraceful. I had some form of assessment in EVERY core module in the last 2 weeks of term (worth: 25%, 25%, 40%, 50% and 60%) and my course is quite theory based. Btw I've 6 exams in the formal exam period too, so the amount of pressure I've been under is ridiculous, before you even consider all my extra-curricular commitments.

Personally I'll be raising it at the programme board in relation to physio, but I think we should push for some sort of university policy in relation to it. It really does pile on way too much pressure with formal exams around the corner as it is.

AngelofFire wrote:

claims that persuading the college to go back on their plans is not acheievable, that just shows laziness if not reluctance on their behalf.

While I do believe that SnM is here to stay, we should absolutley be pushing for say autumn repeats for the summer exams for modules that are pre-reqs for the next term or something. I know there are going to be some exceptions, but I have a feeling that these will be few and far between, and do little to alleviate the many concerns I have.

Sangre

Byrno wrote:

Medicine is a tough enough course to pass without throwing in society/club/SU work/a life. So please don't be as condescending are you are being without knowing the various situations that other posters are in.

Its called prioritising, if you don't have enough time to juggle it on top of work and college, then don't do it. But if you do, don't complain about repeating.

Oh and Sangre: No noone is forcing me to take repeats but if I were to fall ill *touch wood* and was unable to sit my exams I would have to sit the exam without prejudice at the next exam session at which it was offered which would be next Christmas.

I don't think a college of 22,000 students should structure itself on the premise that a few student may unfortunately be unable to pass the first time because of external circumstances.

Stepherunie

A college should structure itself to help students rather than work against them.

This system doesn't.

Without students there wouldn't be a college. Wouldn't good idea if UCD every once in a while actually gave a damn about students and tried to do things for them rather than just make decrees without even giving a damn about students.

Sangre

Well I completely disagree that this is a bad thing and so would a lot of people. A college the size of UCD can't please everyone.