Pinochet is dead

Stargal

BBC News is reporting here that Pinochet has died.

He never fully apologised for everything that he'd done - in November he accepted 'political responsibility' for all that went on in Chile but there was no apology to the victims or even an attempt to explain it all.

The man was a tyrant, who managed to evade all attempts at being brought to justice. I doubt I'm the only one thinking good riddance, now that he's gone.

A Dub in Glasgo

He should have died in prison

SeanW

true, but good riddance nonetheless.

mike65

Yep, no flowers please. May Mugabe follow him shortly.

Mike.

nacho libre

I wonder will Margaret be attending his funeral?

Akrasia

i think pinochet died of a broken heart after he heard of the passing of his dear friend Milton Friedman

Rebeller

What I want to know is how come tyrants such as Pinochet tend to leave long relatively healthy lives and only die of old age in comfortable surroundings.

Unlike their victims many of whom are buried in unmarked graves.

Makes me question if there really is anything such as natural justice or karma.

If he is in fact dead may he suffer for eternity for the crimes he has committed (presuming there is an afterlife of course)

Akrasia

Rebeller wrote:

What I want to know is how come tyrants such as Pinochet tend to leave long relatively healthy lives and only die of old age in comfortable surroundings.

Unlike their victims many of whom are buried in unmarked graves.

Makes me question if there really is anything such as natural justice or karma.

If he is in fact dead may he suffer for eternity for the crimes he has committed (presuming there is an afterlife of course)

There would be such a thing as justice, but the gods of selfishness and cynicism have overpowered the human spirit because they could afford to pay for slick marketing campaigns, the cooption of political and education systems and almost monopolistic ownership of all forms of mass media.

I blame capitalism, the high priest of Pinochet and Friedman, and their god, Private ownership of capital.

The_Minister

Akrasia wrote:

i think pinochet died of a broken heart after he heard of the passing of his dear friend Milton Friedman

What do his economic views have to do with anything?
Most capitalist manage to get along just fine and dandy, with out mass murder.
Similarly, many communist regimes have committed mass murder.
Economics does not explain away his actions. Other capitalists in his position would have found a different solution.

Andrew 83

The_Minister wrote:

What do his economic views have to do with anything?
Most capitalist manage to get along just fine and dandy, with out mass murder.
Similarly, many communist regimes have committed mass murder.
Economics does not explain away his actions. Other capitalists in his position would have found a different solution.

Some right wing people like to portray Pinochet as Chile's greatest ever leader as he kept the economy going well (people in the 'Freedom Institute' for instance).


As has been said, it's a terrible pity that he got to live such a good life and not go to jail for his crimes.

A Dub in Glasgo

Maggie is 'greatly saddened' to hear of the death of her mate. Just about sums her up.

Akrasia

The_Minister wrote:

What do his economic views have to do with anything?
Most capitalist manage to get along just fine and dandy, with out mass murder.

i suppose that depends on how you define mass murder.

Similarly, many communist regimes have committed mass murder.

yep, totalitarian communists. but you can't justify the failings of capitalism by pointing towards the crimes of Stalinism. there are other options.

Economics does not explain away his actions. Other capitalists in his position would have found a different solution.

Other capitalists would not have been his position, nor would he have been, if it was not for the U.S. supported overthrow of the popular and democratic government of Allende. Pinochet's violence was as a result of his attempts to impose a violent and oppressive system on an unwilling population. It could not have been done in any other way.... and there are violent pro-capitalist military dictatorships scattered all around 20th century history to demonstrate that point

tallus

I remember seeing her (maggie) singing his praises and saying what a great man he was.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.

mike65

The main reason she thought well of Pinochet was due to the help Chile gave during the Falkland Conflict in '82. The Argies were pissed off when the UK was able to avail of Chilian intelligence and radar coverage. Argentina and Chile had thier own on-going squable regarding a vital waterway in Tierra del Fuego.

Mike.

Kojak

Good riddance to him - he should have had stood trial years ago. According to reports 1000's died while he was in charge of Chile during the period 1973 to 1990 and yet he never faced trial, even when he set foot in Englad a few years ago.

Margret Thatcher then to say she was "deeply saddened" is just plain wrong. It really says a lot about old Maggie :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Akrasia

mike65 wrote:

The main reason she thought well of Pinochet was due to the help Chile gave during the Falkland Conflict in '82. The Argies were pissed off when the UK was able to avail of Chilian intelligence and radar coverage. Argentina and Chile had thier own on-going squable regarding a vital waterway in Tierra del Fuego.

Mike.

mike, that's one virgin chicken you've got there... or an orphan egg....


Thatcher loved pinochet because they had the same political philosophy. There is no 'cause and effect' scenario here, it's a case of kindred spirits. The fact is, thatcher has never condemned pinochet, and has stood by him whenever any of the current charges were leveled against him.

The Corinthian

Rebeller wrote:

What I want to know is how come tyrants such as Pinochet tend to leave long relatively healthy lives and only die of old age in comfortable surroundings.

Like Castro?

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote:

Like Castro?

Spot on. Of course Pinochet should have been tried for his wrongs, as should other murderous despots like Fidel.

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote:

Spot on. Of course Pinochet should have been tried for his wrongs, as should other murderous despots like Fidel.

And Thatcher, Bush, Blair, Putin.......

The Corinthian

Is that on a basis of their being dictators or simply because you don't like their politics?

El Stuntman

Akrasia wrote:

And Thatcher, Bush, Blair, Putin.......

errr, my knowledge of history probably isn't as great as yours but weren't all 4 of these democratically elected (more than once)?

Pinochet and Castro seized power unlawfully

Akrasia

The Corinthian wrote:

Is that on a basis of their being dictators or simply because you don't like their politics?

they are all responsible for war crimes.

the_syco

WW2 should have taught us that winners don't goto jail, thus Bush and his ilk will be free, but "da axis of evil b*satrds" will all goto prison.

The Corinthian

Akrasia wrote:

they are all responsible for war crimes.

How come you left out guys like Ortega and Castro in your war criminals list? The former was associated with numerous atrocities in Nicaragua and the latter funded war in a number of other countries, most notably Angola.

Is there a reason you like to only damn right wing dictators and alleged war criminals?

The_Minister

What was Thatcher's warcrime?

Akrasia

The_Minister wrote:

What was Thatcher's warcrime?

Ok well thatcher probably doesn't belong in that list. tho the falklands war was a total waste of lives for imperialism and to save her political career

I didn't include Castro, but he was already mentioned.

Time Magazine

Akrasia wrote:

Ok well thatcher probably doesn't belong in that list. tho the falklands war was a total waste of lives for imperialism and to save her political career

And the take-over was achieved by everyone holding hands and making a human-chain to the island.

I didn't include Castro, but he was already mentioned.

What about Ortega? Fan of Mugabe much?

El Stuntman

Akrasia wrote:

Ok well thatcher probably doesn't belong in that list. tho the falklands war was a total waste of lives for imperialism and to save her political career

Thatcher didn't invade the Falklands, Argentina did....

and the upshot of that little escapade was the downfall of a nasty little military dictatorship in Argentina...a Good Thing surely?

oh, and also there was no electable opposition in Britain at the time (ask Tony Blair, he said it)

anyway we have gone far enough OT, I agree with the OP - good riddance to Pinochet

sovtek

The Corinthian wrote:

How come you left out guys like Ortega and Castro in your war criminals list? The former was associated with numerous atrocities in Nicaragua and the latter funded war in a number of other countries, most notably Angola.

Is there a reason you like to only damn right wing dictators and alleged war criminals?

Not so familiar with Ortega's association with war crimes...other than the ones that were committed against his countrymen by the Contras and their CIA buddies.
Castro did fund war in Angola...when he sent troops to fight for the democratically elected leaders of that country against the wishes of the US government and apartheid era South Africa.

sovtek

The_Minister wrote:

What was Thatcher's warcrime?

I'm not sure of all the specifics but I remember hearing about British military nastiness under her watch going on in the North.

The Corinthian

sovtek wrote:

Not so familiar with Ortega's association with war crimes...other than the ones that were committed against his countrymen by the Contras and their CIA buddies.

Try Googling for it, you shouldn't have to go far to find accounts of Sandinista atrocities. It's interesting though you're only educated to the atrocities of one side of that conflict.

Castro did fund war in Angola...when he sent troops to fight for the democratically elected leaders of that country against the wishes of the US government and apartheid era South Africa.

A dictator sent troops to defend democracy? Are you trying to be serious?