800 years

vesp

Hagar wrote:

I think the poster is saying that there are people here who hate the English so much ....

There are people in Ireland who do hate the English / British. You do not have to listen to a crowd of drunk Celtic supporters to know that. Thankfully they are a minority of the population. Given the republican propoganda machine ( I remember one teacher who used the phrase " burn everything British except their coal " etc ) what would you expect. Remember what the PIRA gunman said when he shot a pregnant UDR woman ; two for the price of one ( bullet ).

brianthebard

vesp wrote:

There are people in Ireland who do hate the English / British. You do not have to listen to a crowd of drunk Celtic supporters to know that. Thankfully they are a minority of the population. Given the republican propoganda machine ( I remember one teacher who used the phrase " burn everything British except their coal " etc ) what would you expect. Remember what the PIRA gunman said when he shot a pregnant UDR woman ; two for the price of one ( bullet ).

I hope you mean he was quoting a well worn phrase used in the economic war....otherwise you may be tarring him with a republican brush which may be undeserved....

walrusgumble

i swore it was someone like johnatan swift or daniel o'connell (doubt ti was him) that came up with the phrase burn everything british, except for the coal.

Fratton Fred

A bloke was beaten to death near Liffy Valley shopping centre for being English only last year, Although thankfully the anti English feeling is generally not that violently shown. Yes there are those that cheer when England lose, but to be honest, most people I know just look at them as the pathetic people they are. I guess it is something to expect living in a foreign country.

The English haters that really annoy me, are the ones that live in their council flat in Surrey, living off welfare and claiming that they despise the queen and everything English, except our money obviously:rolleyes:

Dyr

Steyr wrote:

:rolleyes:


Funny how many Anti British people there are around saying "British Scum f**k the Brits etc" yet i suppose they love an aul cuppa tea and sit down to watch "corrie" or "enders" or watch an aul soccer match and support the "pool" or whatever:rolleyes: These people dont know their arse from their elbow.

Im a proud Irish man and love my Country and everything we stand for and have no hatred whatsoever for the British, leave History where it belongs in the past, Forgive but never Forget.

thats a ridiculous supposition though, it would be a bit like someone saying that anyone in the Defence forces was an oul' free stater who had very good reason to want history left where it was, or something equally silly

A Dub in Glasgo

InFront wrote:

I think you're missing his point, it doesn't make a difference to that pedestrian whether she was killed in the name of the IRA or by a drunken driver.

Would her death be validated if the IRA carried it out? No. Not now, not ever. The murder of civilians is always unquestionably wrong. Not just civilians now, but a hundred years ago as well. That woman is no more responsible for the plantations, for example, than your average British unionist or policeman.
If somebody argues in favour of militant republicanism, they might as well be arguining in favour of what happened to this woman. The two arguments are equally stupid

Are you for real? I fear you think you are :rolleyes:

The other post was the height of stupidity, but your post wins hands down.

A Dub in Glasgo

Brian Capture wrote:

Dontico and you other England-haters will probably be jumping for joy when you read this.

One less English person on this earth.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

:rolleyes:

See the post above

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote:

A bloke was beaten to death near Liffy Valley shopping centre for being English only last year, Although thankfully the anti English feeling is generally not that violently shown. Yes there are those that cheer when England lose, but to be honest, most people I know just look at them as the pathetic people they are. I guess it is something to expect living in a foreign country.

The English haters that really annoy me, are the ones that live in their council flat in Surrey, living off welfare and claiming that they despise the queen and everything English, except our money obviously:rolleyes:

our money??

I despise the queen, not for Englishness but as a monarchy

vesp

brianthebard wrote:

I hope you mean he was quoting a well worn phrase used in the economic war....otherwise you may be tarring him with a republican brush which may be undeserved....

I was not tarring him with a republican brush. I just wrote to point out " There are people in Ireland who do hate the English / British. You do not have to listen to a crowd of drunk Celtic supporters to know that. Thankfully they are a minority of the population. Given the republican propoganda machine ( I remember one teacher who used the phrase " burn everything British except their coal " etc ) what would you expect."

The phrase has nothing to do with any " economic war" with our neighbouring island. I remember it being used by a teacher when both countries were members of the EEC / EC, and when we were getting billions of pounds worth of handouts from Britain, and when thousands of our people were going to England to get work every month.

vesp

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

our money??

I despise the queen, not for Englishness but as a monarchy

Do you despise the other European monarchies as much - say the Catholic monarchies for example ?

brianthebard

vesp wrote:

I was not tarring him with a republican brush. I just wrote to point out " There are people in Ireland who do hate the English / British. You do not have to listen to a crowd of drunk Celtic supporters to know that. Thankfully they are a minority of the population. Given the republican propoganda machine ( I remember one teacher who used the phrase " burn everything British except their coal " etc ) what would you expect."

The phrase has nothing to do with any " economic war" with our neighbouring island. I remember it being used by a teacher when both countries were members of the EEC / EC, and when we were getting billions of pounds worth of handouts from Britain, and when thousands of our people were going to England to get work every month.

What's with the quote tags? Do you not believe that there was an economic war now? ffs. the point isn't when he used the phrase, its what it refers to, which is something you seem to not understand.

vesp

brianthebard wrote:

the point isn't when he used the phrase, its what it refers to, which is something you seem to not understand.

I understand only too well. The point is the context in which the phrase was used. The person was anti-British to the core. He used the phrase because he believed in it. He reminds me of another racist I knew once who refused and returned a present given to him once because it was made in Britain.

A Dub in Glasgo

vesp wrote:

Do you despise the other European monarchies as much - say the Catholic monarchies for example ?

I despise all monarchies... do you?

Erin Go Brath

Just the idea that your tax goes towards paying for some family to sit on their asses and do nothing, while leading a life of privelege puts me off monarchies. They are a throwback to the old days of tribal chiefs. I don't think they are at all suitable for a modern country.

walrusgumble

there are a waste of tax payer's money, but hey thats their choice to retain their tradtions and its their business.ie spin, britain and all

surely the idea that the english monarchy draws in the tourist is no longer valid. i mean there are so many tourist things in england, eg great buildings, the people (yes some are fine people) and their fantastic sporting traditions

vesp

walrusgumble wrote:

there are a waste of tax payer's money, but hey thats their choice to retain their tradtions and its their business.ie spin, britain and all

Thats their choice all right, the British people. They want to retain their monarchy all right.

walrusgumble wrote:

surely the idea that the english monarchy draws in the tourist is no longer valid.

You are only wanting to believe what you want to believe. The Royal family actually do bring in a lot of tourists, do a lot of charity openings and p.r. work, and employ a lot of people. I remember reading a survey somewhere once where it said overall they more than paid their way.

If you want to compare the cost of maintaining the Royal family ( spread over 60 or 70 million or whatever the pop. of the UK is ), to the cost per head of us maintaining our Mary and her family in Aras an Uctarain, fell free to do so.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

our money??

I despise the queen, not for Englishness but as a monarchy

I've no problem with that, although I presume you despise the position of monarch rather than the individual.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote:

I've no problem with that, although I presume you despise the position of monarch rather than the individual.

Of course

LordSutch

Getting back to the Genesis of theis 800 years of 'English' oppression rubbish. I would honestly like to know the detail (on a century by century basis) about this 800 years of torture & oppression by the so called 'English'.

Personally speaking, I find it hard to accept that its true, and no doubt the truth is very complicated & very complex, I also suspect the possibility that those nasty 'English' are in reality the Norse, the Normans (French), the Vikings, & the Scots? Irish Landlords possibly? and many other combinations of all of the above including the English.

I hope somebody knows the 'True' answer to this 800 year thing seeing as it is bandied around so much these days by Republicans & I would really like to proove them wrong, next time I get into an argument while sipping a pint of the black stuff in Temple bar

By the way, I dont for one moment believe that the 'English' oppressed us over an 800 period ........ it is a catchy sound bite though!

Finally; all this talk about the 'English' reminds me of the 'Amish people' in that film (Witness) with Harrison Ford, where all outsiders were known as 'The English' because they were different, from the outside, and with different & Alien ways ....................

Maybe thats what is meant by 'The English'?

Brian Capture

Hagar wrote:

A crass generalization at best, a disgraceful comment at worst.

Aren't you the person who revels in every English sporting defeat?

If so, you're hardly in a position to criticise.

Hagar

Brian Capture wrote:

Aren't you the person who revels in every English sporting defeat?

If so, you're hardly in a position to criticise.

Err, No. I do enjoy Irish victories when they arise as I'm sure an Englishman would enjoy an English victory. Is there anything wrong with that?

Oh yeah before we get the Premiership Supporter line being trotted out, I do support Man U.:p

csk

Arthur F wrote:

I would honestly like to know the detail (on a century by century basis) about this 800 years of torture & oppression by the so called 'English'.

Well one example of "oppression" would be Poynings Law. This law applied to the Irish Parlaiment from 1490 to maybe the Act of Union or thereabouts(iirc). Poynings Law made the Irish Parlaiment a subordinate parlaiment to Westminster.

The funny thing about Poynings Law was that "meer Irish" were restricted from attending Parlaiment so the ones who were most often "oppressed" by this Act were the Forebears of what today are know in Ireland as Unionists.

LordSutch

Poynings Law hardly accounts for 800 years of oppression, and anyway, just because Ireland was subordonate to London from 1490-1782 does not mean that the 'Irish' were oppressed for 800 years by the 'English' in the hard done by fashion currently portrayed by Irish (Republicans).
Re writing History just aint going to work.

Dontico

Brian Capture wrote:

Dontico:

Were you happy when London was bombed on 7 July 2005?

If you say no, you're a hypocrite.

no. i wasnt. no need to explain why. i equally dislike terrorism, however the differnce between waring nations and terrorists, is that, terrorist dont necessarily represent the country they come from.

Dontico

Brian Capture wrote:

Dontico and you other England-haters will probably be jumping for joy when you read this.

One less English person on this earth.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

i dont promote the death of most people. nor do i hold every english person responsible for thier gov. nor did i run over that person.

csk

ArthurF wrote:

Poynings Law hardly accounts for 800 years of oppression, and anyway, just because Ireland was subordonate to London from 1490-1782 does not mean that the 'Irish' were oppressed for 800 years by the 'English' in the hard done by fashion currently portrayed by Irish (Republicans).
Re writing History just aint going to work.

I would have thought that Poynings Law is a perfect example of the kind of "oppression" that is largely forgotten about due to the (sometimes) "hard done by fashion" as you call it, of Irish History.

Of course there will always be a tendancy to highlight the more despicable acts of "oppression" such as, say, the Penal Laws because they make for a better story but I think we should not forget the milder forms of "opppression" visited on this island such as Poynings Law.

Of course Poynings Law was deemed suffieciently "oppressive" by those at the mercy of it. Indeed, they thought it necessary to use their own para-military(terrorist perhaps?) organisation in order to rid themselves of it.

Erin Go Brath

English Oppression has been rife for many years:

The statute of Kilkenny 1367
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/statutes.htm

The statute of Galway 1527 also banned the game of hurling.
(Could find any great links on this one)

Just two examples of Oppression which give rise to whole 800 years of oppresion argument which spring to mind. These statutes were designed to pretty much eradicate our language, culture, sporting traditions etc.

LordSutch

Still waiting for the definitive guide to the 800 years of 'English' oppression thingy!
The question also has to be asked "Were Irish people treated any differently from other people living in the british isles" for example (were people in Manchester any better off)? were people in Liverpool better off? were people in Glasgow better off? was every body oppressed by penal laws? or was Ireland singled-out and given extra hard treatment? I dunno ~ I am asking, and as regards eradicating the Irish language, all I can say is look at the Welsh language :-) which seems to have done pretty well considering that they still remain next door to those nasty English people.

brianthebard

ArthurF wrote:

Still waiting for the definitive guide to the 800 years of 'English' oppression thingy!
The question also has to be asked "Were Irish people treated any differently from other people living in the british isles" for example (were people in Manchester any better off)? were people in Liverpool better off? were people in Glasgow better off? was every body oppressed by penal laws? or was Ireland singled-out and given extra hard treatment? I dunno ~ I am asking, and as regards eradicating the Irish language, all I can say is look at the Welsh language :-) which seems to have done pretty well considering that they still remain next door to those nasty English people.

Regarding the Welsh question-Wales as a country/people became interested in the notion of Britishness at a far earlier period than people in Ireland and Scotland. Henry VII had many many welshmen in his court and around that time(can't think of exact dates) Wales united with England. There was a mutual acceptance on both sides, leading to a better union, little or no dissent, and interestingly, a blind eye was turned to a lot of Welsh Catholicism during the reformation.

@ Brath: The statutes of Kilkenny were an attempt to stop the Old English Norman people fraternising with the Irish and becoming "native" no? In essence it was an attempt to keep London's own people to themselves. Plus it failed. If the worst thing the statutes' of Galway did was ban hurley then perhaps it wasn't the most oppressive of statutes. Plus the game still went on, so again, not very well enforced?

Erin Go Brath

I was just giving two minor (in the scheme of things) examples of oppression;
re. the previous argument that not all forms of oppression were biggies like the penal laws, plantation of Ulster, oath of allegiance and suchforth.

Of course I could be here all night; ArthurF if I was to give a "definitive guide to the 800 years of 'English' oppression". (Go to a library, I've stuff to do ) Also the Irish language may have faded into obscurity in terms of it being spoken as a first language, compared to Welsh for example, the reason it did though is still measures that England brought in that lead to its demise.

I'm not here to dump all over England and it history. People (English and West Brits in particular) just have to realise that the Empire wasn't such a benign influence that some would have you think.
If some people here, are of the opinion that we weren't oppressed by the British, they are seriously misinformed about Irish history. The evidence is there for all too see!!