Graham Geraghty gets nomination...

ballooba

The_Minister wrote:

Ffs Its Christmas, I have friends and family, and have been busy over the last while. Sometimes people with lives are away from the internet for a day or two. I was busy, and didn't have time to research what you were saying (I still haven't but I've made a half-assed effort:p ) In future, give people time before you start to gloat.

I was referring to the fact that I posted that 4 minutes after your post. I also checked if you had been back online before 'gloating' and you had. If you want to claim you have a life then I won't try and argue that.

The_Minister wrote:

Before I go onto the candidate issue, I want to get one thing out of the way, because it's bugging me. You seem to think that the whole idea of "all politics is local" has something to do with FF. It doesn't. I've heard people of all parties say it, because it is true. It isn't something shameful at all.

I'm not saying it's shameful. I was just pointing out that the man's high profile locally is just as important as Graham Geraghty's in his consituency. I think your trying the usual FF tactic of fudging the issue, in this case by focussing on semantics.

The_Minister wrote:

Your example is Packie Bonner, and tbh I haven't heard of him since I was a lot smaller. This is the first time he's come across my radar in years. But, you are correct, Bonner would count as a parachute candidate, as I asked my brother (better at sport than me:) ) who says that Bonner hasn't done much, but makes the occasional public appearence.

You can't get much higher profile than Packie Bonner in Irish sporting terms. He was on the 1990 World Cup team, the first Irish team to qualify for that competition. I don't even watch football and I know who he is.

My other example, which you seem to have chose to ignore was Shane Byrne AKA Mullet Man who had a very high profile on the Irish team for years.

The_Minister wrote:

I still disagree with you when you said that "Fianna Fail pulls crack like this the whole time". The two sides seem about even when it comes to this, but I would still regard Geraghty's recruitment as worse, because tbh, I heard that he wasn't the brightest. It's one thing to put someone in the Dail due to fame, but to put an incompetant in is a disgrace..

Again, your fudging the issue. The original point was that this was a desperate move by FG. I have shown that FF are just as bad if not worse for this kind of behaviour.

The_Minister wrote:

I can see how you made this mistake, but a little bit of thought and you'll realise that the facts are lying to you.
Who mainly runs for election? Middle class people from private schools.
What do private schools tend to pride themselves on? Sporting achievement.
So who gets to be the best at sport in the school? The bold, the resourceful, the ambitious and the determined.
What kind of person runs for election? Someone who is bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined.
There is no conspiracy, its just that those with the right qualities for politics, also have the right qualities for sports.

Again, fudging the issue.

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

I was referring to the fact that I posted that 4 minutes after your post. I also checked if you had been back online before 'gloating' and you had. If you want to claim you have a life then I won't try and argue that.

I have my profile set to automatically log into boards when I click on the site, and while I had visited boards during that time, that was only for about five minutes at a time to check the economics forum, and the UCD forum. I was not on the internet long enough to research what you were saying, so I did not do you the discourtesy of a half-assed glib answer. Your replies down below show that you are incapable of the same.

ballooba wrote:

I'm not saying it's shameful. I was just pointing out that the man's high profile locally is just as important as Graham Geraghty's in his consituency. I think your trying the usual FF tactic of fudging the issue, in this case by focussing on semantics.

Firstly, do not insinuate that I am in Fianna Fail again, or that I am a Fianna Fail supporter. I am a PD supporter (if anything) and have said so before. If I had my choice, and numbers were irrelevant, then the PDs would be in with Fine Gael, not Fianna Fail. But, that isn't possible at the moment, and it's probably a good thing with Enda "damp tissue" Kenny at the helm. I'm not defending FF because I like them, but because you are being unfair to them.
Secondly, I don't think that Bonner's current reputation even approaches Geraghty's. Like you, I don't follow sports, but I know which one I have heard more of in the last few years. Considering that the entire arguement rests on whether or not certain candidates are being chosen because they are celebrities, the relevant fame of those individuals is important and referring to it is not fudging anything.

ballooba wrote:

You can't get much higher profile than Packie Bonner in Irish sporting terms. He was on the 1990 World Cup team, the first Irish team to qualify for that competition. I don't even watch football and I know who he is.

I'm not saying that he was not famous, I'm saying that he is not famous. He hasn't been high-profile in recent years, as opposed to Geraghty who has. There is a difference (in my eyes) in offering someone who used to be famous and has since moved on to other things, a chance to run, and offering that same chance to someone who has done nothing but be famous).

ballooba wrote:

My other example, which you seem to have chose to ignore was Shane Byrne AKA Mullet Man who had a very high profile on the Irish team for years.

I genuinely missed the second person.
I had never heard of him so I did a little google, and then asked by very sporty family. They said that "he wasn't very good" and was "kinda" famous. This obiously wasn't good enough for my purposes so I enquired further using (again) google. The general consensus seems to be that he is a pathetic has-been clinging onto a talent that many doubt that he had in the first place.
But, all this is irrelevant, as FF have denied ever approaching him, and so has Shane Byrne himself (http://www.unison.ie/bray_people/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1713311&issue_id=14816)

ballooba wrote:

Again, your fudging the issue. The original point was that this was a desperate move by FG. I have shown that FF are just as bad if not worse for this kind of behaviour.

There is no fudge here. Answer my point.

ballooba wrote:

Again, fudging the issue.

That is my explanation, and I think that it is accurate, and true. There is no need to shout fudge at a point like that, indeed, you seem obsessed with the stuff. If you disagree rebut it, and explain why you think that I am wrong.

ballooba

The_Minister wrote:

Firstly, do not insinuate that I am in Fianna Fail again, or that I am a Fianna Fail supporter. I am a PD supporter (if anything) and have said so before. If I had my choice, and numbers were irrelevant, then the PDs would be in with Fine Gael, not Fianna Fail. But, that isn't possible at the moment, and it's probably a good thing with Enda "damp tissue" Kenny at the helm. I'm not defending FF because I like them, but because you are being unfair to them.

FF and PD are the same thing to me. Michael McDowell and Mary Harney are just as good at fudging as any of the FF ministers. I have an equally low opinion of McDowell, if not lower because he represents my constituency, as I do of Ahern.

I'm only on this thread to defend against someone inferring that FG have reached a low by putting forward a candidate like Graham Geraghty. I feel I have been quite fair in doing so and in highlighting the FF parachute candidates.

The_Minister wrote:

I'm not saying that he was not famous, I'm saying that he is not famous. He hasn't been high-profile in recent years, as opposed to Geraghty who has. There is a difference (in my eyes) in offering someone who used to be famous and has since moved on to other things, a chance to run, and offering that same chance to someone who has done nothing but be famous).

Packie Bonner is not being asked to run in this election, that was in 2003 when he was working with the Irish Squad as far as I can remember. My point earlier was that it doesn't matter how long ago the person had a high profile if people in their constituency still remember them for their sporting achievements. What if FF decided to run Ronnie Delaney for the Dail? Would you still claim that he isn't as high profile as Graham Geraghty?

The_Minister wrote:

Shane Byrne himself (http://www.unison.ie/bray_people/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1713311&issue_id=14816)

With regard to Shane Byrne, I do follow Irish Rugby and Shane Byrne would be one of the more recognised members of the Irish Squad. Probably on par with O'Kelly, D'Arcy, Horgan etc. but not as high profile as ROG or BOD. Let's put it this way he would be the best known rugby player in Wicklow.

That article confirms that Dick Roche did approach Byrne, formally or not. Tricky Dicky does try to fudge the issue by playing with semantics of who was there when it was formally discussed etc.

The_Minister wrote:

There is no fudge here. Answer my point.

How can you say it's worse because you think Graham Geraghty's not the brightest. What about FF trying to run Royston Brady on his profile despite the fact that he hadn't a word to say for himself.

The_Minister wrote:

That is my explanation, and I think that it is accurate, and true. There is no need to shout fudge at a point like that, indeed, you seem obsessed with the stuff. If you disagree rebut it, and explain why you think that I am wrong.

Because there are plenty of people in the Dail who are "bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined" who did not have the high profile of these people before enterring politics. If you look at your old clas from school, the people who were good at sports are just as likely to be unsuccessful or successful as others. Most of them did not go to private schools either. Even if they did you are painting the stereotypical picture of Blackrock and Clongowes type places.

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

FF and PD are the same thing to me.

That shows how little you know about politics. The PDs are nearly ideologically identical to FG, to the extent that they can be referred to as "Fine Gael Junior". There is quite alot of osmosis of membership between the parties (PDs often go to FG, and visa versa). Michael McDowell was once thought of as a future leader of Fine Gael. The two parties are so similar that they could even by considered wings of each other, with the PDs being the more "radical" wing in terms of policies (cafe bars, and taxi deregulation).

ballooba wrote:

Michael McDowell and Mary Harney are just as good at fudging as any of the FF ministers. I have an equally low opinion of McDowell, if not lower because he represents my constituency, as I do of Ahern.

"Fudging", a term you over- and mis-use, is a skill I have seen all politicians use, from those in Sinn Fein to those in the Greens. "Fudging" is not a crime of one party, and if you somehow think that it is, then obviously Fine Gael has covered you in so much fudge that you can see nothing else. All politicians are fudgers.
That being said, I have always found McDowell to be (while sometimes disagreeable), honest, and willing to give straight answers. After a speech that he gave in UCD, the daughter of the McBriarty's raised her hand to ask a question. He could have ignored her, and saved himself a difficult question, but instead he pointed at her and took her question first. I've often thought that if he wasn't so blunt, and danced a bit more like the other politicians, then he wouldn't be so disliked.

ballooba wrote:

I'm only on this thread to defend against someone inferring that FG have reached a low by putting forward a candidate like Graham Geraghty. I feel I have been quite fair in doing so and in highlighting the FF parachute candidates.

And, I have disagreed with you on most of the candidates highlighted, as most of them would not qualify as being arachute candidates IMO. Geraghty is still the worst example that I have seen with nothing to recommend him except his fame, unlike the other candidates, who all have had some redeeming features. While I mentioned Maraid McGuinness, I never slated her, because while she was a "parachute" candidate in the technical sense, she is very capable, and fairly intelligent, so the country was done no diservice by running her in the election.

ballooba wrote:

Packie Bonner is not being asked to run in this election, that was in 2003 when he was working with the Irish Squad as far as I can remember. My point earlier was that it doesn't matter how long ago the person had a high profile if people in their constituency still remember them for their sporting achievements. What if FF decided to run Ronnie Delaney for the Dail? Would you still claim that he isn't as high profile as Graham Geraghty?

If you told people that Bonner was signing autographs in the local park, how many would go? Not too many, unless they had nothing to do. If you said that Graham Garaghty was there (Since reading this thread, i've started to hear his name everywhere), far more people would go because he is a current star. It's not if they know the name vaugely that is the problem, it's if there is a "star quality" attached to that person, if they are sill in the media once a fortnight. I've heard of Ronnie Delaney (sorta), but I still had to wiki him. It said that he was born in 1935, and his last achievement was in 1956. I doubt that he is in the shape to run, and I don't think that he counts.

ballooba wrote:

With regard to Shane Byrne, I do follow Irish Rugby and Shane Byrne would be one of the more recognised members of the Irish Squad. Probably on par with O'Kelly, D'Arcy, Horgan etc. but not as high profile as ROG or BOD. Let's put it this way he would be the best known rugby player in Wicklow.

I'll be honest and say that I don't know. All I know of him is what I have been told, and that wasn't complimentary. I was told that he never had the skill to be famous, and was still chasing the talent that he tought that he had. If this isn't true, and he s one of the best players, then I apologise. But, I still don't think that FF approached him.

ballooba wrote:

That article confirms that Dick Roche did approach Byrne, formally or not. Tricky Dicky does try to fudge the issue by playing with semantics of who was there when it was formally discussed etc.

Like Fine Gael approached Eddie Hobbes?
It's hardly semantics. If I was chatting to a minister for anything and we were discussing politics, I would expect them to ask if I had ever considered going into politics. I wouldn't consider it an offer of a nomination. There as nothing to suggest in either of their accounts that it was anything more than a polite question.

ballooba wrote:

How can you say it's worse because you think Graham Geraghty's not the brightest. What about FF trying to run Royston Brady on his profile despite the fact that he hadn't a word to say for himself.

My opinion of Roysten Brady was that he is a muppet, and that FF (quite rightly)hung him out to dry at the European elections. However, credit where credit is due. He raised the office of the Dublin mayor in the eyes of many people, and for many people he was the first Dublin mayor that they could name (just as I typed that, I realised that I don't know who is currently mayor).

ballooba wrote:

Because there are plenty of people in the Dail who are "bold, resourceful, ambitious and determined" who did not have the high profile of these people before enterring politics. If you look at your old class from school, the people who were good at sports are just as likely to be unsuccessful or successful as others. Most of them did not go to private schools either. Even if they did you are painting the stereotypical picture of Blackrock and Clongowes type places.

I can't find the figures now, and the boards blackout is looming, but the last time I checked, most TDs went to private schools.
Those who participated as the captain of sports are more likely to succeed, as they are more determined. I'm not saying that all TDs will have excelled in sports, but it is natural that many would have.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

FF and PD are the same thing to me.

:eek:

ballooba wrote:

I'm only on this thread to defend against someone inferring that FG have reached a low by putting forward a candidate like Graham Geraghty.

As the OP, I can say that was not the point at all. Merely that FG were putting Geraghty on the ticket. I never suggested that FF have not done so - though your own list bizarrely suggests one of the Lenihans was a parachute candidate and you omit Olive Braiden! Heck I even referred to Jack Lynch in the post, he won quite a few GAA medals in his time and went on to lead both FF and the country.

Accordingly your defence of FG is based on your misunderstanding of the thread.

ballooba wrote:

What if FF decided to run Ronnie Delaney for the Dail?

Like the pun.

ballooba

The_Minister wrote:

That being said, I have always found McDowell to be (while sometimes disagreeable), honest, and willing to give straight answers....

People forgot very quickly that Michael McDowell spoke on the introduction the EUs brand of PATRIOT Act in Irish. I didn't like it and I will be remembering it when I fill out my ballot paper in Ranelagh Multidenominational N.S. in March. He wasn't so straight that day.

The_Minister wrote:

I've heard of Ronnie Delaney (sorta), but I still had to wiki him. It said that he was born in 1935, and his last achievement was in 1956. I doubt that he is in the shape to run, and I don't think that he counts.

Ronnie Delaney was brought out on the pitch for the last rugby international in Landsdowne Road. They didn't need to say who he was, the whole place applauded him. His olympic medal may be fifty years old but people would quickly remember him and vote for him if he was put up for election.

The_Minister wrote:

My opinion of Roysten Brady was that he is a muppet, and that FF (quite rightly)hung him out to dry at the European elections. However, credit where credit is due. He raised the office of the Dublin mayor in the eyes of many people, and for many people he was the first Dublin mayor that they could name (just as I typed that, I realised that I don't know who is currently mayor). .

Quite right he was a muppet. Isn't 'Muppet' the word he used to describe his council colleagues. He raised the profile of Dublin mayor's office for the wrong reasons. He wanted to be the David Beckham of politics or something. He made a show of FF.

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

As the OP, I can say that was not the point at all. Merely that FG were putting Geraghty on the ticket.

That was your point. Several others made the point that FG was a populist party etc etc.

Bilko for one.

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

People forgot very quickly that Michael McDowell spoke on the introduction the EUs brand of PATRIOT Act in Irish. I didn't like it and I will be remembering it when I fill out my ballot paper in Ranelagh Multidenominational N.S. in March. He wasn't so straight that day.

There is a huge difference between that act and the Patriot Act. Don't try to confuse them.
I remember that happening. If memory serves there were several fluent TDs in the Dail that day (so he wasn't going to get away with anything), and he had been under great pressure to start using Irish, as figures had been released showing that Irish was not used in the Dail. I think he himself was personally highlighted.

ballooba wrote:

Ronnie Delaney was brought out on the pitch for the last rugby international in Landsdowne Road. They didn't need to say who he was, the whole place applauded him. His olympic medal may be fifty years old but people would quickly remember him and vote for him if he was put up for election.

If he has done nothing worthwhile since then, nothing that would give him extra skills for the Dail, then he would be a parachute candidate.

ballooba wrote:

Quite right he was a muppet. Isn't 'Muppet' the word he used to describe his council colleagues. He raised the profile of Dublin mayor's office for the wrong reasons. He wanted to be the David Beckham of politics or something. He made a show of FF.

It was the first time in many years that everyone knew who the mayor of Dublin was, and to be fair to him, while he had more problems than normal, he did more then the usual as mayor.
I found his criticism of his collegues to be quite apt.