Curbs offered 2.5m a year deal?!

mike65

Wow! If its true though if it is true it suggests the new owners don't have much of a clue.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2006570532,00.html

Mike.

county

jesus,thats some amount of money,not enough to tempt sven though:rolleyes:

Nalz

nice contract for a nice man

who's also hard working, intelligent, proven record, local and a Hammers fan/former player to boot

well deserved

therecklessone

The Swede don't get out of bed for less than £5m apparently, especially when the FA are paying.

Savman

Crazy. F****** crazy.

county

therecklessone wrote:

The Swede don't get out of bed for less than £5m apparently, especially when the FA are paying.

the FA make the FAI look professional some of the time tbh

therecklessone

county wrote:

the FA make the FAI look professional some of the time tbh

No argument from me there, but if thats the yardstick you measure the FA by, they're in mucho trouble...

Fratton Fred

as a general rule of thumb, I always take whatever the sun prints with a huge pinch of salt.

Nalz

Fratton Fred wrote:

as a general rule of thumb, I always take whatever the sun prints with a huge pinch of salt.

more like a barrell of sea salt

Fratton Fred

I would be surprised if anyone other than Curbs went there though. Curbishley has the desire and the ability so I fail to see what could prevent it.

As long as they keep their hands of our Arry.:D

MrJoeSoap

'Arry would never jump ship.

Or at least if he did he'd come back again I suppose.

jesus_thats_gre

How is 50k a week for the manager crazy when some players are getting 120k a week?

mike65

For Fratten Fred etc

http://za.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-12-13T123707Z_01_BAN337985_RTRIDST_0_OZASP-SOCCER-ENGLAND-WESTHAM-20061213.XML

Mike.

MisterAnarchy

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

How is 50k a week for the manager crazy when some players are getting 120k a week?

I agree.
The manager is the most important person at a football club.
He decides who to play,buy,sell etc.
It makes sense to get a good manager and pay him well.

therecklessone

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

How is 50k a week for the manager crazy when some players are getting 120k a week?

I don't think its the amount but rather the person who'll be receiving it that people are questioning.

PHB

Can anybody tell me why everyone thinks Curbs is such a good manager?

He had 15 years at Charlton, managed to get them into the premiership and do somewhat well, but Pardew himself has a better record than that, with a UEFA cup spot and a FA Cup final.
I don't see why people think he is such a good manager. He does seem like a nice guy, but I don't see how he has proved himself.

Managers who get 15 years at a club really should have done more for it than Curbs has. Look at Wenger or Fergie and how they developed an incredible youth system, something you can only do if you get a massive amount of time at a club, and Curbs didn't do it.

I'm not saying he is a bad manager, but he's not exactly set the world alight with his record.

Savman

PHB wrote:

Can anybody tell me why everyone thinks Curbs is such a good manager?

I've no freakin idea. Does he have any track record dealing with big name players who arent performing or is he better off getting the best out of an untalented but hardworking squad? Time will tell. But with all the takover business and "West Ham going in the right direction" talk, I doubt we'll see mass celebrations at Upton with this news.

I didn't notice it was from The Sun but occasionally they get it right. Nearly.

Xavi6

PHB wrote:

Can anybody tell me why everyone thinks Curbs is such a good manager?

He had 15 years at Charlton, managed to get them into the premiership and do somewhat well, but Pardew himself has a better record than that, with a UEFA cup spot and a FA Cup final.
I don't see why people think he is such a good manager. He does seem like a nice guy, but I don't see how he has proved himself.

Managers who get 15 years at a club really should have done more for it than Curbs has. Look at Wenger or Fergie and how they developed an incredible youth system, something you can only do if you get a massive amount of time at a club, and Curbs didn't do it.

I'm not saying he is a bad manager, but he's not exactly set the world alight with his record.

What an absolutely ridiculous post. How can you compare the achievements of Curbishley to those of Wenger and Ferguson? Putting Charlton in the same category as United and Arsenal is laughable.

The reason Curbishley is a great manager is because he has created an established Premiership club from nothing. When he took over Charlton were in the old Second Division and didn't even have a ground to call their own because they had no money to renovate The Valley. He also got them into the Premiership. Even when they were relegated they didn't spend time down in the doldrums as bigger clubs such as Manchester City, Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds United have done. They were promoted again and finished a more than respectable 7th in 2003/2004.

A manager can only prove himself in relation to the resources he has. Wenger and Ferguson manage the biggest clubs and have done well, Curbishley did fantastic with what he had to work with. Is Dario Gradi a failure too because Crewe have never qualified for the Champions League?

event

PHB wrote:

Can anybody tell me why everyone thinks Curbs is such a good manager?

He had 15 years at Charlton, managed to get them into the premiership and do somewhat well, but Pardew himself has a better record than that, with a UEFA cup spot and a FA Cup final.
I don't see why people think he is such a good manager. He does seem like a nice guy, but I don't see how he has proved himself.

Managers who get 15 years at a club really should have done more for it than Curbs has. Look at Wenger or Fergie and how they developed an incredible youth system, something you can only do if you get a massive amount of time at a club, and Curbs didn't do it.

I'm not saying he is a bad manager, but he's not exactly set the world alight with his record.

charlton are a very small club, they have a capacity of 27000
to take a small club, into the premiership and get them established, its a massive feat.

you only have to see as soon as he left that they have now crumbled.

he got them playing nice football, and they were pleasing enough to watch

with a bigger club in west ham i expect him to now show his worth

PHB

I'm not saying he is a bad manager, and he has shown that he can get teams promoted and establish them somewhat in the premiership, but Charlton are set to go down again, which might indicate the players he brought in aren't that amazing, it's just that he got the best out of them.

In terms of West Ham, I don't know if there is a better manager that they could get, but I'm not exactly expecting him to turn the whole thing around and them to challenge for the top 4 like people might have expected at the start of the season.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

Can anybody tell me why everyone thinks Curbs is such a good manager?

He had 15 years at Charlton, managed to get them into the premiership and do somewhat well, but Pardew himself has a better record than that, with a UEFA cup spot and a FA Cup final.
I don't see why people think he is such a good manager. He does seem like a nice guy, but I don't see how he has proved himself.

Managers who get 15 years at a club really should have done more for it than Curbs has. Look at Wenger or Fergie and how they developed an incredible youth system, something you can only do if you get a massive amount of time at a club, and Curbs didn't do it.

I'm not saying he is a bad manager, but he's not exactly set the world alight with his record.

I think you should think a little harder and then edit that post. He is a manager with undoubted quality who has made something good out of nothing.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

which might indicate the players he brought in aren't that amazing, it's just that he got the best out of them.

So has the penny dropped with you yet?

It's very easy to go fork out £20-30M on Wayne Rooney and just pick him every week and let him do his thing, it takes a lot more effort and ability to pick Darren Bent and have him outscoring him.

PHB

I'm not denying he had less resources, but even compared to those with similar resources, he hasn't done that well.

Take for examples
Big Sam with Bolton, who had even less money, but has managed to establish Bolton in the premiership and has got them into UEFA (something Curbs couldn't do).

Paul Jewell with Wigan, brought them up two leagues to get to where they are, and managed a top half finish, and look set for another one.

These people had similar resources to Charlton, but were equally if not more successful. I'm not saying he is not a good manager, but I don't expect him to exactly light the world on fire.

The fact that Charlton are in such a bad state since he left is both a damming and positive statement. It means yes that he is a good man manager and is good at getting his players to preform, but it also means he made poor choices in bringing in players in the first place. You can say what you like about Pardew, in relation to the former, but he has a pretty impressive squad left behind him.

Xavi6

PHB wrote:

Paul Jewell with Wigan, brought them up two leagues to get to where they are, and managed a top half finish, and look set for another one.

As I already pointed out, Charlton finished 7th in 2003/04.

PHB

And in ones since then they finished in the 2nd half

Chucky the tree

Wigan never had similiar resources to Charlton. They have had alot more money then them.

redspider

My general thought on this is that Pardew wasnt given much of a chance by the new owners. Also as mentioned there isnt that much of a difference in capability between Curbishley and Pardew. Indeed, Pardew may be arguably a better manager. I would rate them in and around the same level.

But one thing which was striking for me and that was the body language and what I have heard from the new owner, or their main representative. His body language at the recent 4-0 defeat was of a kid who had seen his ice cream fall on the ground after coming out of the shop. For me, it was just all wrong. And sacking Pardew as a 'punishment' for recent form and current position to me seems petulent.

PHB wrote:

Managers who get 15 years at a club really should have done more for it than Curbs has. Look at Wenger or Fergie and how they developed an incredible youth system, something you can only do if you get a massive amount of time at a club, and Curbs didn't do it.

I judge each manager by the resources that they have. Comparing how managers do at Man Utd or Arsenal in relation to Charlton or West Ham is like comparing chalk and cheese. Charlton are a club that have been punching above their weight in terms of the money/income they have at their disposal. Its very diffiult to compare managers. The only way is to:
a) be a club owner or,
b) be a player under a managerfor a prolonged period of time

Not many of us have done either.

In terms of Ferguson and the Man Utd youth system, my understanding of it, and I am not an oracle when it comes to Man Utd, is that the youth system was pushed by other people at the club. Ferguson was not the instigator of it.

In terms of Wenger, its Brady who leads or did lead the Youth System I thought and Wenger prefers to buy in youth rather than grow his own, and they are mainly European or African, well, non-English. No Brady, Stapleton or O'Leary coming through their ranks for a long time. The main Arsenal players in recent years were bought in and were not youth, Henry, Pires, Vieria, Bergkamp, etc.

Redspider

PHB

Well a lot of good youth systems are based on buying in talent, but others are based on building from the youth. Whether or not Fergie or Wenger were the instigators behind the youth system, they successfully developed youth talent over the course of their reign, something you really only get a chance to do if you are in the reigns of a club for so long.

Any manager which is given that sort of chance should take it, and the fact that Curbs couldn't do it to a massive level of something that is worth noting. The cheapest part of Man Utd is their youth system

KdjaCL

People seem to forget Crubs had a poor charlton squad playing somevery nice passing football altho for only 18 games a season
WHU are a traditional passing team and would benefit by getting in curbs, i hope he does well there


kdjac

redspider

PHB wrote:

they successfully developed youth talent over the course of their reign, something you really only get a chance to do if you are in the reigns of a club for so long. Any manager which is given that sort of chance should take it, and the fact that Curbs couldn't do it to a massive level of something that is worth noting. The cheapest part of Man Utd is their youth system

Well, I would hazard a guess that Man Utd spend more on their youth system than many/most of the other clubs, and probably certainly more than Charlton or West Ham. Some clubs are known for developing their youth players, and for example, Boro are doing good in that area of late.

But overall, I get the point that you are making, which is that Curbishley could have done better perhaps and is no great shakes overall. On the latter aspect, I would tend to agree with you. But I, like others here, still think its best to judge managers on what they do with the resources they have available and on that score Curbishley did ok.

Its like who is the better car driver, Jenson Button in an F1 car or Michael Schumacher in a Nissan Micra. You cant judge by who crosses the line first because that will be the F1 car every time.

There are some that think that the amount of money that Ferguson had at his disposal over the years which prodiced *only* 1 CL is a very poor return indeed. Others say he is the best manager of all time.

Judging managers is very subjective.

Redspider

PHB

Indeed, but you guys are ignoring the fact that one of the most precious resources that a manager can have is time. Time in which to build the team you want to build is quite a rare thing in the days of premiership football, Pardew is a testament to that. Curbs had a lot more time than other managers.

Xavi6

PHB wrote:

Indeed, but you guys are ignoring the fact that one of the most precious resources that a manager can have is time. Time in which to build the team you want to build is quite a rare thing in the days of premiership football, Pardew is a testament to that. Curbs had a lot more time than other managers.

Yeah and in that time he took an unfancied, financially poor team into the Premiership and kept them there. What would you have liked him to achieved?

Rikand

PHB wrote:

Indeed, but you guys are ignoring the fact that one of the most precious resources that a manager can have is time. Time in which to build the team you want to build is quite a rare thing in the days of premiership football, Pardew is a testament to that. Curbs had a lot more time than other managers.

Man Utd have a big talented squad....why ? Because they are Man Utd! Anyone would love to play for Man Utd and they can pretty much buy whoever they want, Ronaldinho, being the exception.

Charlton are a small team with a few talented players who are never, no matter who manages them, going to achieve any kind of "real success" for a very long time.

Now, you're a very good player on the market looking to win trophies, who do you join ?

It doesnt take a brain surgeon to figure that out.




Fairplay to Curbs, i think this job will really suit him and West Ham after this season will really go from strength to strength, probably finishing in the top 6 or 7 regularly!

Savman

Curbs did wonders with Charlton, no doubting that.

I really can't take to that new WHU owner and this move made me dislike him even further. But I guess Pardew is just the first of many casualties that inevitably happen during a takeover, he obviously wasn't in Mr Iceland's long term plans (whatever that is).

Can I just ask, hypothetically, what if Curbs hits a bad run of form, will he be sent packing? And what can he realistically achieve at West Ham? In my unpaid opinion, the new owner made a clear statement to the footballing world that Premiership survival is top of his agenda. In which case he's got the right man for the job. Sorry but I can't see West Ham with Curbs challenging for major honours which is what a lot of people expect when they hear the word "takeover".

Rikand

changed your tune PHB ?

How on earth can a manager such as Curbishley orchestrate such a win over United!

Wonders will never cease! :rolleyes:

event

PHB wrote:

which might indicate the players he brought in aren't that amazing, it's just that he got the best out of them.

surely thats what makes someone a good manager though?

PHB wrote:

Take for examples
Big Sam with Bolton, who had even less money, but has managed to establish Bolton in the premiership and has got them into UEFA (something Curbs couldn't do).

Paul Jewell with Wigan, brought them up two leagues to get to where they are, and managed a top half finish, and look set for another one.

true, bolton have done better. Though they play a horrible brand of football, but i suppose results are what counts. Would you prefer to follow bolton or charlton over the last 5 years?

and wigan have more money than charlton, by a mile