Tracking mobile phones

connundrum

Hey,

When I want to track a mobile phone, does that phone have to have gps enabled?

UK Sites like this reckon that all you need is a PC with Internet connection and the mobile phone number you want to track.

That seems a bit simplistic though?

Tom Dunne

There are two ways you can do it.

GPS can provide the location of the phone, but that isn't normally sent anywhere, so only the phone knows where the phone is.

The other method, and the one which I believe that site uses, is tri-angulation. Basically, the mobile phone network works out where the phone is based on it's signals strength to the base stations. AFAIK, it needs three base stations, hence the tri- bit.

connundrum

tom dunne wrote:

The other method, and the one which I believe that site uses, is tri-angulation. Basically, the mobile phone network works out where the phone is based on it's signals strength to the base stations. AFAIK, it needs three base stations, hence the tri- bit.

And the usability/legality of this in Ireland?

I know that Top Security are providing the GPS solution to Ireland (saw it on tv3 this morning ) But if GPS isn't an option, then what can we in Ireland do?

dohouch

If you want to see some onnline tracking go[URL="http:///timhibbard.com/wherestim/"] here[/URL]

Tom Dunne

connundrum wrote:

And the usability/legality of this in Ireland?

Well, the mobile phone networks use this data, so I imagine those websites buy the data from the mobile phone companies. I don't think there is any question of legality as they have legitimate reasons for generating this data (something to do with cell utilisation, AFAIK). So, I presume it is up to a company here to buy this data from our mobile phone networks and put it on a website. Whether O2/Vodafone/Meteor/3 will actually sell this data is another question altogether.

connundrum wrote:

I know that Top Security are providing the GPS solution to Ireland (saw it on tv3 this morning ) But if GPS isn't an option, then what can we in Ireland do?

Not much, I'm afraid. See above.

Gillo

Could have done with a service like that all those drunken years ago, much handier than trying to find your way out of some random houseing estate and then find a bus stop.

aidan_walsh

Well, the mobile phone networks use this data, so I imagine those websites buy the data from the mobile phone companies. I don't think there is any question of legality as they have legitimate reasons for generating this data (something to do with cell utilisation, AFAIK). So, I presume it is up to a company here to buy this data from our mobile phone networks and put it on a website. Whether O2/Vodafone/Meteor/3 will actually sell this data is another question altogether.

The last time I heard about anything like this being used in the news was around the time Robert Houlihan went missing, and even then I think the Gardai had to get an order to get the information from the mobile operator in question. I'm not sure if anything has changed since then, but I wouldn't imagine that its the kind of data that operators here would just sell to anyone. It might be different in the US.

Even then, when you're working with triangulation its still only accurate to within a few kilometers (depending on how tightly bunched the cells are, I guess).

fifth

^

Is that anything like using the cell positioning? Like, near a certain mast - it's accurate as in it only shows the major location you are in, e.g. wexford.

Tried that out on my n-gage last year.

Tom Dunne

aidan_walsh wrote:

The last time I heard about anything like this being used in the news was around the time Robert Houlihan went missing, and even then I think the Gardai had to get an order to get the information from the mobile operator in question. I'm not sure if anything has changed since then, but I wouldn't imagine that its the kind of data that operators here would just sell to anyone.

Yeah, that's what I believe they did in that case. As they did with some IRA case a while back - they tracked the suspect's mobile phone from Louth to across the border, to the scene of a bomb blast, and back.

aidan_walsh wrote:

It might be different in the US.

I think the US is actually a whole different kettle of fish. The site linked by connundrum is in the UK, so it is the likes of O2 and Vodafone that are selling this data. The US have some 911 directive (as in the emergency number, not September 11th) that a mobile phone must be locatable for emergency services. I can't remember the specifics, but as far as I remember, it does have something to do with GPS.

aidan_walsh wrote:

Even then, when you're working with triangulation its still only accurate to within a few kilometers (depending on how tightly bunched the cells are, I guess).

I thought it was more accurate than that. But you are right, it probably depends on the local cells.

kippy

Interesting,
A search of :
Mobile phone triangulation
In google brought up such links as:
http://www.tinhat.com/cell_phone/tracking.html
http://www.mobilelocators.com/how.php

Probably a lot more techie stuff out there as well.

JimmyShoes128

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I believe they did in that case. As they did with some IRA case a while back - they tracked the suspect's mobile phone from Louth to across the border, to the scene of a bomb blast, and back.


I think the US is actually a whole different kettle of fish. The site linked by connundrum is in the UK, so it is the likes of O2 and Vodafone that are selling this data. The US have some 911 directive (as in the emergency number, not September 11th) that a mobile phone must be locatable for emergency services. I can't remember the specifics, but as far as I remember, it does have something to do with GPS.


I thought it was more accurate than that. But you are right, it probably depends on the local cells.

its not really that different here than it is in the states. you are both right about robert houlihan and the omagh bombing suspects but if you ring the emergency service in ireland to report an accident and tell them you dont know where you are they can pin point the cell your using to call them. However, if the gaurda want to use a phone to proove someone was somewhere they have to get a court order, they can even turn the microphone on your phone on to listen to you and your gangster buddies but again need a court order.
there are certain english companies that offer tracking of phones in ireland which there not meant to do but they dont advertise it and most mobile companies here are in england also so they can argue the point that they offer the service to england and its not thier fault if said service spills over to include ireland.
also, in america you can go to some companies to track your childs phone to check up on them but you have to go to this company with the phone you want to track so they know your not trying to track someone unrelated to you, if you know what i mean. you have to proove you have good reason to be tracking the phone in question.
sorry for waffleing but ive been looking into this for some time now.

Sam Vimes

JimmyShoes128 wrote: »

they can even turn the microphone on your phone on to listen to you and your gangster buddies but again need a court order.

do you have anything to prove this or did someone in a tin foil hat tell you?

Random

The thread is over 2 years old. I really don't know why you felt the need to bump it for that.