Time off for husband during pregnancy?

MarkR

Hi, wasn't sure whether to post here or in Work / Jobs. My wife has a scheduled appointment in the maternity, now she gets time off work for this as she's preggers, doesn't come out of hols etc. Don't suppose it's the same for the guys?

Thanks

Nevyn

Yes your wife will get paid time off for her prenatal check ups but there is no paid time for fathers to attend prenatal check ups and as for that paternity leave you are entitled to there is no mandatory leave it depends on what is in your contract and at your employeers descresion.

Kashkai

For a country that places such importance on the family, fathers get damn all statutory leave to look after their wives pre and post birth.

I took time off work to attend all my wife's pre natal check ups. I looked forward to hearing my child's heartbeat or seeing them on the ultrasound. Its a shame most fathers miss out on this as I think it helps you accept that your wife's growing bump is really your developing baby. I also went to the pre natal classes but I know I was in the minority of fathers to be, as there was only one other guy in the room during these classes.

There is paternity leave available of 3 days but even this pittance is not mandantory as far as a I know. As for parental leave, this is unpaid and most families nowadays can't afford to have a missing salary.

There's an election coming up so you can have your chance to put this across to the politicos (who'll probably promise the earth until they get re-elected of course:rolleyes: )

The Hill Billy

I agree 100% with what Dave said.
Fathers are treated very badly in quite a number of respects in this country.
I will be taking 2 weeks off when Foetus Billy arrives. I'm self employed, so I'd be taking a hit regardless.

However, the hard-working PAYE fathers-to-be should be looked after - at least in line with our European cousins in terms of paternity leave & benefits.

Linford

MarkR wrote:

Hi, wasn't sure whether to post here or in Work / Jobs. My wife has a scheduled appointment in the maternity, now she gets time off work for this as she's preggers, doesn't come out of hols etc. Don't suppose it's the same for the guys?

Thanks

This from http://www.oasis.gov.ie

Expectant fathers have a once-off right to paid time off work to attend the two antenatal classes immediately prior to the birth. This entitlement does not extend to every pregnancy while the woman is in employment – it’s just a once-off right only. The provision for paid time off work to attend ante-natal classes for expectant parents was brought into effect in SI 653 of 2004 Maternity Protection (Time off for Ante–Natal Classes) Regulations 2004 (PDF).

MarkR

Thanks guys

RainyDay

Is there any reason why the Dad's can't day a day or half-day annual leave for these important events?

Shelli

Of course they can, point is they shouldn't have to.

run_Forrest_run

the system sucks in this country for dads...they go after the dads who don't pay up alright but what about the hard working caring dads? Nothing but a kick in the teeth.

RainyDay

Shelli wrote:

Of course they can, point is they shouldn't have to.

So the costs of their time off is just spread across the rest of the population, through lower salaries or higher costs. There is no such thing as a free lunch - if you give away half-days, someone has to pay the price. So either the dad pays the price through his annual leave, or everyone pays the price.

run_Forrest_run wrote:

the system sucks in this country for dads...they go after the dads who don't pay up alright but what about the hard working caring dads? Nothing but a kick in the teeth.

Not quite true - Dads do get 3 days paternity leave around the time of the birth, and have a right to unpaid parental leave over the first 5 years.

squire1

Just after the budget, I think Matt Cooper was interviewing Seamus Brennan. Cooper asked what did the gov do for Dads in this budget and Brennan was shocked to think that people expected them to do anything for Dads. It sounded like it did not even come up for discussion at the cabinet.

While I am all in favour of extending maternity leave, maybe they could have allowed Dads the option of taking some of that leave in place of the mother. Not all Mums wants to take six or seven months off work and it would be nice if the option was there for Mum to return to work early and Dad to take the last month.

I cant see it happening as pepole like IBEC are too powerful an influence on our government. Maybe it is something that the Trade Unions should be asking/fighting for.

samanthacarter

RainyDay wrote:

So the costs of their time off is just spread across the rest of the population, through lower salaries or higher costs. There is no such thing as a free lunch - if you give away half-days, someone has to pay the price. So either the dad pays the price through his annual leave, or everyone pays the price.


Not quite true - Dads do get 3 days paternity leave around the time of the birth, and have a right to unpaid parental leave over the first 5 years.

Unpaid parental leave have extended to the first 8 years and there is no 3 days paternity leave around the time of hte birth except if your company give it to you, most don't

viking

squire1 wrote:

Just after the budget, I think Matt Cooper was interviewing Seamus Brennan. Cooper asked what did the gov do for Dads in this budget and Brennan was shocked to think that people expected them to do anything for Dads. It sounded like it did not even come up for discussion at the cabinet.

Yep, heard this too. Matt asked him why he wouldn't be doing anything about it and Brennan replied that it wasn't on the agenda for the government.

So looks like no change in policy for a few years.

iguana

I know in the UK there is talk of extending maternity leave from 26 weeks to 39, but a couple can choose to divide 13 weeks of that time between both parents. So the mother could take 34 weeks and the father takes 5 or the mother takes 26 and the father takes 13. I don't think it is actually law yet, though my contract allows for something similar.

Not that it will be of any use to me, when the time comes, as my husband is sel-employed. But maternity and paternity leave in the UK is a fixed amount, which is pretty low, unless your company also makes payments.

LegacyUser

I really cant belive that there are companies out there that will begrudge a man some paid time off for the birth of his child.Im a senior manager in my company and I TOOK time off for each and every hospital visit.

Time off post birth is a tender topic I know.....Im taking a week or two weeks off when babog is born depending on how my wife is feeling when we get home...and Im just taking it for granted that its from my annual holidays.I will most likely get the time off as extra after such long service to my company .

drkool

MarkR wrote:

Hi, wasn't sure whether to post here or in Work / Jobs. My wife has a scheduled appointment in the maternity, now she gets time off work for this as she's preggers, doesn't come out of hols etc. Don't suppose it's the same for the guys?

Thanks

I become a dad last week got a weeks of prenatal leave no pay.
Government needs to strength the family bond. It will lead to
Kids with less anti social behavior problems, for example
Compare with other EU countries
Norway
4 weeks paternity leave ("use it or lose it")

Finland
18 days paid paternity (proposing to raise it to 25 days)

Denmark
14 days paid paternity

France
2 weeks paid paternity

Italy
2 weeks paid paternity

UK
2 weeks paid paternity (from 2003)

Sweden
10 days paternity leave

Austria
10 days paid paternity

Portugal
5 days paternity

Belgium
3 days paid paternity

Spain
2 days paternity

Holland
2 days paid paternity

Luxembourg
2 days paid paternity

Ireland
NO entitlements to paternity leave

drkool

MarkR wrote:

Hi, wasn't sure whether to post here or in Work / Jobs. My wife has a scheduled appointment in the maternity, now she gets time off work for this as she's preggers, doesn't come out of hols etc. Don't suppose it's the same for the guys?

Thanks

I become a dad last week got a weeks of prenatal leave no pay.
Government needs to take action to strength the family bond. It will prevent
anti social behavior problems, for example
Compare with other EU countries
Norway
4 weeks paternity leave with pay ("use it or lose it")

Finland
18 days paid paternity (proposing to raise it to 25 days)

Denmark
14 days paid paternity

France
2 weeks paid paternity

Italy
2 weeks paid paternity

UK
2 weeks paid paternity (from 2003)

Sweden
10 days paternity leave

Austria
10 days paid paternity

Portugal
5 days paternity

Belgium
3 days paid paternity

Spain
2 days paternity

Holland
2 days paid paternity

Luxembourg
2 days paid paternity

Ireland
NO entitlements to paternity leave

parsi

RainyDay wrote:

So the costs of their time off is just spread across the rest of the population, through lower salaries or higher costs. There is no such thing as a free lunch - if you give away half-days, someone has to pay the price. So either the dad pays the price through his annual leave, or everyone pays the price..

You're right. I pay for jackeens to use the dart and M50. I also pay for prisoners. I pay for the salaries of all TDs even though I'm in Cork. I pay for old people. I pay for search and rescue .

Guess what -that's what a society is all about. We all pay a slice of the cost so that when the time comes we won't have to pay the full cost.

Shhesh go back to your PD meeting..

RainyDay

parsi wrote:

You're right. I pay for jackeens to use the dart and M50. I also pay for prisoners. I pay for the salaries of all TDs even though I'm in Cork. I pay for old people. I pay for search and rescue .

Guess what -that's what a society is all about. We all pay a slice of the cost so that when the time comes we won't have to pay the full cost.

Shhesh go back to your PD meeting..

So what's the huge problem with expecting Dad to take some time out of (minimum 3 weeks paid) annual leave after the birth?

Shelli

Becuase, what if new mum needs some help in the few months after the birth? My bf is planning on keeping as many of his as possible and only taking a few days after the birth, that way he'll have the other days should I need him to take it off for anything else...helping me with hosp appointments, giving me a day off every now and then for a rest, etc. Not to mention that the dad deserves a break too.

I would happily give a few weeks of my maternity leave to my bf, it'd help me out too, I don't fancy being at home on my own those first few weeks.

The poor dads really do get the short end of the stick in every way in this country.

RainyDay

Shelli wrote:

Becuase, what if new mum needs some help in the few months after the birth? My bf is planning on keeping as many of his as possible and only taking a few days after the birth, that way he'll have the other days should I need him to take it off for anything else...helping me with hosp appointments, giving me a day off every now and then for a rest, etc. Not to mention that the dad deserves a break too.

I would happily give a few weeks of my maternity leave to my bf, it'd help me out too, I don't fancy being at home on my own those first few weeks.

The poor dads really do get the short end of the stick in every way in this country.

This is an exaggeration. Dad is entitled to 14 weeks of unpaid leave between birth and the child's 5th (or is it now 8th) birthday. Plenty of chances there to help his missus and spend some time with baby.

Though I do agree with you that the option for either the mother or the father to take the paid 'maternity leave' would be nice.

dame

It's until the child's 8th birthday for the unpaid parental leave, which may be taken by either parent. It's also available for adoptive parents.

Nevyn

Yes but it is unpaid and when you can take it is at the employeers discretion if you boss won't ok it then it is very hard to get it sanctioned.

Shelli

What good is unpaid leave to dads when the mum is already on a wage cut with maternity leave? For most couples its just not feasible.

I'm not saying dad should be given same 6 months paid or anything, but even a week to spend with new baby should be the min.

dame

Your boss can't refuse to give you your unpaid parental leave, it's an entitlement. All they can do is delay it, but you'll still get it. You obviously have to give them enough notice to get someone else to cover your work.

Tazz T

RainyDay wrote:

This is an exaggeration. Dad is entitled to 14 weeks of unpaid leave between birth and the child's 5th (or is it now 8th) birthday. Plenty of chances there to help his missus and spend some time with baby.

Though I do agree with you that the option for either the mother or the father to take the paid 'maternity leave' would be nice.

I don't know a single father who's taken any of this 14 weeks of unpaid leave. Generally there seems to be an unwritten rule that this is reserved for emergency circumstances. I know that, working in a small firm, if I requested any of this it would be looked upon very unfavourably.

As for the half day/day out of your annual leave for attending the hospital comment, I think that day would be more useful used, for example, looking after a mother who's had a caesarium with a couple of other kids running around. I'd like to see you or your partner cope in that situation with one of you working. I think your views on why you should pay through 'higher costs' would change then.

We're a society. Without children this society would fail to exist. Hence it only makes commonsense that we put the means in place of caring for mother and child after birth. In this country we haven't done this adequately and anti-societal attitudes like yours certainly isn't going to help us get there.

Nevyn

Well it used to be that the care to support families after a birth came from women in the community and the wider family, other mothers, grandmothers, aunts who would be at home rearing thier own children would call around and pitch in.

But with the prices of houses it is not possible for most people to live near family and even if they are most likely granny is back at work as well as the aunts and a lot of those who used to be the stay at home parents are in work.

This effect the elderly as well as the community caring work is not being done by those who used to do it.

Tazz T

This is true. In a way we (Irish society) have conned ourselves. With the Celtic Tiger, more and more parents went to work in order to afford a better home/lifestyle for their children. As more people did this, the price of housing went up, resulting in this being the norm - both parents have to work to afform the same level of housing that, before, one salary paid for. Both parents are now breadwinners and there is no one there to look after the home and the family. In reality, we gained nothing apart from a large creche bill.

RainyDay

Tazz T wrote:

I don't know a single father who's taken any of this 14 weeks of unpaid leave. Generally there seems to be an unwritten rule that this is reserved for emergency circumstances. I know that, working in a small firm, if I requested any of this it would be looked upon very unfavourably.

That's certainly not my experience. I've seen parental leave used by many, many fathers in my last employer (hi-tech multi-national), include a couple of staff at Director-level. But this stuff about being 'looked upon very unfavourable' is a bad joke. If you're not prepared to stand up for your rights, you can't expect the state to step and offer even more leave (which presumably would be looked on just as unfavourably.

Tazz T wrote:

As for the half day/day out of your annual leave for attending the hospital comment, I think that day would be more useful used, for example, looking after a mother who's had a caesarium with a couple of other kids running around. I'd like to see you or your partner cope in that situation with one of you working. I think your views on why you should pay through 'higher costs' would change then.

I've been through difficult times, including coping with my partner's 20 nights in Holles St prior to giving birth, and our baby's 25 days in neo-natal intensive care after the birth. So hope down off the high horse and let's get back to the discussion.

Tazz T wrote:

We're a society. Without children this society would fail to exist. Hence it only makes commonsense that we put the means in place of caring for mother and child after birth. In this country we haven't done this adequately and anti-societal attitudes like yours certainly isn't going to help us get there.

I guess I must have missed the announcement of your appointment as spokesperson for society at large.

Tazz T wrote:

This is true. In a way we (Irish society) have conned ourselves. With the Celtic Tiger, more and more parents went to work in order to afford a better home/lifestyle for their children. As more people did this, the price of housing went up, resulting in this being the norm - both parents have to work to afform the same level of housing that, before, one salary paid for. Both parents are now breadwinners and there is no one there to look after the home and the family. In reality, we gained nothing apart from a large creche bill.

Anyone finding themself in this position can always avoid the large creche bill by one partner giving up work.

BostonB

dame wrote:

Your boss can't refuse to give you your unpaid parental leave, it's an entitlement. All they can do is delay it, but you'll still get it. You obviously have to give them enough notice to get someone else to cover your work.

AKAIK If you take it enmasse you are entitled to it. Though they can refuse it once, and basically they can set the dates. If you want to take it piecemeal they don't have to give it to you.

Of course your wife might not have paid maternity so therefore money might be tight and having the other wage earner on unpaid leave might not be doable. So by making it enmasse it rules it out for many people.

Of course if you well off none of this effects you.

BostonB

RainyDay wrote:

That's certainly not my experience. I've seen parental leave used by many, many fathers in my last employer (hi-tech multi-national), include a couple of staff at Director-level. But this stuff about being 'looked upon very unfavourable' is a bad joke. If you're not prepared to stand up for your rights, you can't expect the state to step and offer even more leave (which presumably would be looked on just as unfavourably.

I never seen many fathers take it. Though I've taken it when a child was sick. Its not about right. Often theres a culture in a office/company that discourages people from taking there entitlements. It depends on where you work, basically.

RainyDay wrote:

Anyone finding themself in this position can always avoid the large creche bill by one partner giving up work.

Why not both become unemployed? Thats a "choice" too.