Bupa to pull out of Ireland

Trampas

BUPA Ireland forced to close it's business

"We have no choice but to leave the market with great regret" Martin O'Rourke

www.bupa.ie

tbh

on the bright side, at least it's an end to those stupid radio ads.

CJhaughey

Back to a Monopoly methinks, Thanks to the PD's and FF Govt.

Devon

Risk equalisation my ass. VHI aren't obliged to "take on" older sicker people if they don't want to, and if they do, their premiums should be representative of their condition, just like car insurance. The VHI bosses will be popping corks about now...

thefinalstage

This is bullsh*t!

Damn...more job losses. I can see a pattern starting to emerge...

wheelbarrow

..at least the practise safe sex.

aidan_walsh

Press Release

Current members who have recently renewed will remain fully covered. For anyone who is in hospital or about to arrange any medical treatment they remain covered. Members will continue to be provided with a comprehensive, quality service until all contracts have expired and claims under those contracts are settled. No new members or renewals of membership will be accepted from today. Members are legally entitled, if they wish, to transfer to another insurer with no break in insurance cover.

At least policy holders will be honoured until their policies expire.

tvbrat

Trampas wrote:

BUPA Ireland forced to close it's business

"We have no choice but to leave the market with great regret" Martin O'Rourke

www.bupa.ie

Notice to BUPA Ireland members and all health insurance customers
http://www.bupa.ie/memberletter2.html


BUPA Ireland Statement
http://www.bupa.ie/news/press/pressreleases_141206

Kinetic^

CJhaughey wrote:

Back to a Monopoly methinks, Thanks to the PD's and FF Govt.

Yeah ffs, these muppets have to go!!!!!!

dodgyme

go with vivas - long live choice

Nightwish

And once Vivas have built uo a market, they will be forced to make risk equalisation payments.

It has to be noted that BUPA are a beneficiary of Risk equalisation in Australia, but the market is different over there. There are many more insurers, who all have a pretty even share of the market, and the RE payments a relatively small. Its wholly unfair to ask BUPA to pay multiples of there profits to their main competitor, who has 78% of the market share.

Sniipe

were both companies not forced to pay? Why did only Bupa pay.

This is a terrible thing to happen. Bupa are/were a good company, I never had any trouble with them while I was with them. Granted, I wasn't sick with either, but I've since started a new job and they are covered by VHI. I hope I wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back.

fatboypee

Am I missing something here ?????

The way I see the Bupa thing is this:

Government owns a big insurance business (part owns anyway), Government then decides it cannot continue to fund said insurance business and looks for get-out-clause, said business provides a get-out clause by squealling about an age deficit and rumouring "Cherry Picking" of it's more successful competitors, Government then passes a law (as its supposed to do) to obscenely levy the main competition and force it to fund the governments business... subsequently the main competitor withdraws from the market...

Is this not what happened ?

Oh, I forgot to add as well the following:

When you are a private patient (covered by said competitor) in hosptial (public as there are no private ones yet :rolleyes:), the scale of charges is set out by that hospital as per guidelines from the HSE. Your insurere is then charged for EVERY expense you incur in that hospital, no, not minus the allowance you would receive as a public patient, EVERY expense, regardless. So, in effect, the amount payable by the government for your care as is warranted by your PRSI is kept by the government.

To add insult to this injury , the government also charges VAT on that bill.

Maybe I'm wrong on the second point ? Someone help me out if I am. I just find the whole debacle of "risk equalisation" in this country a laugh, and we're told we're awash with cash and we get pence back on our taxes (woo fookin' hoo!!!), tell that to the health service that has to rely so heavilly on the private insurers in the first place...

Oh, and when you need long term care in a nursing home (leas Cross here we come :eek: ) you'll have to pay for it out of your estate.... :mad:

lovely... who said wer'e more than third world nowadays ?? who said it... comeon, I wanna know... cos you're wrong....

Fatboy.

Nightwish

Sniipe wrote:

were both companies not forced to pay? Why did only Bupa pay.

Vivas have only got approx 2% of the market. They'll be made pay too once they have a bigger market share.

kizzyr

fatboypee wrote:

Am I missing something here ?????

The way I see the Bupa thing is this:

Government owns a big insurance business (part owns anyway), Government then decides it cannot continue to fund said insurance business and looks for get-out-clause, said business provides a get-out clause by squealling about an age deficit and rumouring "Cherry Picking" of it's more successful competitors, Government then passes a law (as its supposed to do) to obscenely levy the main competition and force it to fund the governments business... subsequently the main competitor withdraws from the market...

Is this not what happened ?

Oh, I forgot to add as well the following:

When you are a private patient (covered by said competitor) in hosptial (public as there are no private ones yet :rolleyes:), the scale of charges is set out by that hospital as per guidelines from the HSE. Your insurere is then charged for EVERY expense you incur in that hospital, no, not minus the allowance you would receive as a public patient, EVERY expense, regardless. So, in effect, the amount payable by the government for your care as is warranted by your PRSI is kept by the government.

To add insult to this injury , the government also charges VAT on that bill.

Maybe I'm wrong on the second point ? Someone help me out if I am. I just find the whole debacle of "risk equalisation" in this country a laugh, and we're told we're awash with cash and we get pence back on our taxes (woo fookin' hoo!!!), tell that to the health service that has to rely so heavilly on the private insurers in the first place...

Oh, and when you need long term care in a nursing home (leas Cross here we come :eek: ) you'll have to pay for it out of your estate.... :mad:

lovely... who said wer'e more than third world nowadays ?? who said it... comeon, I wanna know... cos you're wrong....

Fatboy.

Applauds your point and agrees 100%. Bloody FF and bloody Mary Harney, God how I hate that woman. Not a hope that risk equalisation will apply to car insurance will it? :rolleyes: BUPA had approached VHI and together with VIVAS (who obviously know that they are the next target) offered to take all of the older more expensive clients from VHI at no expense to the client, no change in their cover etc etc as an alternative to paying out all that money. VHI, kind caring company that they are, with their clients health and welfare to the fore at all times, said no thanks we want the money. :mad: And what angers me most of all is that people are going to vote this shower of gangsters back in for another term and then wonder why they're being ripped off!!

com7

devon is wrong there vhi and vivas are obliged to take bupa customers if their sick or not , you can transfer to both of them once you were covered by bupa i transfered to vivas from vhi in august and my son had his gromets done in october and i had a colonscopy last month and no problems vivas paid the bill , very happy with them

Tabnabs

BUPA to withdraw from Irish market

14 December 2006 13:58
The health insurer, BUPA Ireland, is to withdraw from the Irish market.

The company is blaming the move on a scheme known as risk equalisation - which it says compels it to pay €1 million every week to compensate other insurance providers for covering older consumers.

300 people who work for BUPA, mainly in Fermoy, Co Cork, have been told their jobs are at risk.

The Minister for Health, Mary Harney, has said she very much regrets BUPA's decision.

BUPA says it will no longer accept new members and current memberships will not be renewed.

It says anyone who is in hospital, or about to arrange any medical treatment will remain covered.

Members are entitled to transfer to another insurer with no break in insurance cover.

The managing director of BUPA Ireland, Martin O'Rourke, said Irish consumers are the real losers as the market will be restored to a virtual monopoly.

BUPA has been providing health insurance here for the past ten years. It now has 475,000 members - a 22% share of the Irish market.

It has been warning for some time that they would pull out of here if they were forced to make risk equalisation payments to other companies - mainly the dominant insurer the VHI.

These payments are intended to compensate the VHI for the extra cost of providing insurance for its much older age-profile consumers.

But BUPA, which has challenged these payments in the courts, insists that these payments made its business unviable.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1214/bupa.html

____________
I'm with BUPA, so am really pi$$ed off!
One more nail in the governments coffin I hope!

houseoffun14

Just emailed my local FF TD's informing them not to bother calling to my door looking for my vote. This is a joke, utterly disgraceful.

aidanodr

Well Guys,

I realise Health is far more important but I have to say the following -

Bupa now gone ala VHI and recently SMART gone ala EIRCOM. The incumbants are screwing any chance of competition in Ireland PLC. As was with the 45000 Smart customers, the bulk of the 450,000 Bupa customers will go back to VHI - OUT OF FEAR. As with the Smart situation people will basically say hey back to VHI with me, at least they aint goin under and I am stayin put from here on in. This now ruins any hope for new competition to enter the market in the future, not alone in health but in all other market areas.

Also - look out for general health price increases and win back ads on the radio, tv and the web from VHI and VIVAS

Cheers
Aidan [ already bitten by the smart/eircom situation ]

jimmycrackcorm

I don't know why people blame FF/PD's on this because I look at the situation differently.

BTW I'm a member of Bupa and will move to Vivas. Let's not forget that BUPA has already made tens of millions of Euro in profits and now very convienently wants to get out rather than operate a long term business plan.

VHI have been putting up the prices to reflect the real rising costs of medial care. So why haven't most people migrated from VHI for a cheaper policy? Well because BUPA have also been putting up their prices to ensure that they don't get a whole horde of old people moving over. After all they were making plenty of profit.

What BUPA are saying now that is in realistic market conditions the business is just not profitable enough to be in.

I wonder myself why more people just didn't move over to save a few bob.

fatboypee

BTW I'm a member of Bupa and will move to Vivas. Let's not forget that BUPA has already made tens of millions of Euro in profits and now very convienently wants to get out rather than operate a long term business plan.

VHI have been putting up the prices to reflect the real rising costs of medial care. So why haven't most people migrated from VHI for a cheaper policy? Well because BUPA have also been putting up their prices to ensure that they don't get a whole horde of old people moving over. After all they were making plenty of profit.

What BUPA are saying now that is in realistic market conditions the business is just not profitable enough to be in.

Very sorry, but I don't buy this line. Having already approached VHI to offer a compromise on the age demographic spread of custom and been rebuffed, Bupa had very little option IMHO other than to vote with their feet.

The Government at least PART OWNS VHI, the government, influences heavilly, if not actually sets the tariffs charged to the Insurers by the hopsitals (in your terms the 'rising costs' of health care).

If the government were interested in anything other than controlling a monopoly it would have cut VHI loose on public flotation and allowed it to manage its own financial costs and affairs (thereby levelling the playing field!)

Alas, it looks to me anyway like the underlying intention of the move to implement risk equalisation was to make VHI a better option when the come to sell it off.

Of course, the issue here is that VHI wholly underpins the so called "public health" service already. If the government stood by and let BUPA take a larger stake than currently then indirectly, the government would have to fund more of the health service year on year that it "says" it cannot afford to do.

Ask yourself one question if you disagree, if BUPA had the older demographic, would BUPA get a look-in in risk equalisation to the cost of VHI ? I think NOT !

Fatboy.

Cabaal

its a sad sad day
less competition here we come........

ejmaztec

Is this some other anti-monopoly (or otherwise) EU directive that the Irish Government is in breach of? The usual case of "We'll take the EU funds but we won't do anything to comply with agreements that we've signed"

Kashkai

I was with the VHI for years and put up with their shoddy claims service, rude customer service agents and of course constant price increases.

When BUPA came into the Irish market, I was probably one of the first to join them. What a breath of fresh air they were. Very customer friendly, efficient and their prices were lower. They introduced many new innovative ideas that the VHI were forced to copy such as paying you half your out patient costs.

Typical of this bloody country that when we have something that actually works - i.e. an efficient service provider like BUPA - the powers that be do everything they can to fook it up. BUPA was here to make a profit and whats wrong with that? They still had lower prices than the VHI. Risk equalisation is a joke. What company would run itself into the ground in order to subsidise a semi state company. There was nothing to stop older people moving to Bupa. Its just that they wouldn't get off their asses and change companies. Its just lazy inertia that prevents people from moving from the "good old reliables" like Eircom and the VHI to newer players in the market.

I've just gotten off the phone with a helpful and courteous BUPA customer service agent (who is now out of a job in the run up to Christmas folks). I was enquiring if I would still be covered for next year (I am) and she assured me that any medical bills I incur would be covered until January 2008. Before I hung up, I asked her was she being let go and she said she was "on notice" but that probably meant yes. I told her I was sorry that she would be out of a job soon but with her pleasant and courteous demeanour, she would be an asset to any company.

Trampas

Prosperous Dave wrote:

I was with the VHI for years and put up with their shoddy claims service, rude customer service agents and of course constant price increases.

When BUPA came into the Irish market, I was probably one of the first to join them. What a breath of fresh air they were. Very customer friendly, efficient and their prices were lower. They introduced many new innovative ideas that the VHI were forced to copy such as paying you half your out patient costs.

Typical of this bloody country that when we have something that actually works - i.e. an efficient service provider like BUPA - the powers that be do everything they can to fook it up. BUPA was here to make a profit and whats wrong with that? They still had lower prices than the VHI. Risk equalisation is a joke. What company would run itself into the ground in order to subsidise a semi state company. There was nothing to stop older people moving to Bupa. Its just that they wouldn't get off their asses and change companies. Its just lazy inertia that prevents people from moving from the "good old reliables" like Eircom and the VHI to newer players in the market.

I've just gotten off the phone with a helpful and courteous BUPA customer service agent (who is now out of a job in the run up to Christmas folks). I was enquiring if I would still be covered for next year (I am) and she assured me that any medical bills I incur would be covered until January 2008. Before I hung up, I asked her was she being let go and she said she was "on notice" but that probably meant yes. I told her I was sorry that she would be out of a job soon but with her pleasant and courteous demeanour, she would be an asset to any company.

I hope you told her to mention it to her td when (s)he comes knocking on the door come GE time that its his fault she is out of a job

BANZAI_RUNNER

Im a member of Bupa, as is my wife,(who is pregnant) , we contacted Bupa today , and they told us that we would be covered until jan 2008, as would the baby when it arrives, so we are pretty happy about that , but annoyed with the shower who are running this country and every hard working person into the ground, now we have a problem , who to transfer to after jan 2008, Vivas will be in the same boat as Bupa by then , and i'd rather burn the money than give it to Vhi, The only saving grace is that with the Election on the horizon, and it may be a lot closer now, i'm declaring open season on any FF/ PD B*ST*RDS who wander on to my property canvassing before the election.

Santa Claus

No government will ever get rid of risk equalisation, because then the older member would be charged more....and who are the people who make it their business to vote at every election....OLDER PEOPLE.
The key to winning any election is the Silver/Grey vote as often people are too busy commuting into work early and then working late to get a chance to vote but the retired folk get their come hell or high water !

Why can't the government subsidise risk equalisation....after all they'd be paying the full whack for these older people if they didn't have their own private medical insurance !?!

BANZAI_RUNNER

Try to imagine this
475,000 members in Bupa , now imagine if 10% decided that to hell with private health insurance and went public , that would be 47,500 more hospital trollies in the already overcrowded hospitals ,
But then if FF/PD know they are going to be out next election why should they bother to get the country in order, it would suit them to leave this mess for the new government to sort out , then the FF/PDs are shouting the loudest in opposition regarding the mess they left behind.
Then theres the 15% death tax, and the 6% rise in private health insurance premiums to pay for the cost of the HSE providing a better PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE, SO NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE TO PAY FOR OUR PRIVATE HEALTH CARE , BUT WHILE WE ARE AT IT WE ARE PAYING FOR THE PUBLIC HEALTH CARE, can anyone tell me what we are paying our taxes for

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

This is an utter disgrace.
I presume Mary Harney will be forced to step down?

ambrose :cool:

Vmaxer

kingambrose wrote:

This is an utter disgrace.
I presume Mary Harney will be forced to step down?

ambrose :cool:

You have no idea how much that would make My Day..

I'm going to save the money I give to Bupa and go Public,

God knows You will get the same service anyway, once You get of the Trolly..

FF/Pd's Don't knock on My door either..

parsi

Prosperous Dave wrote:

I was with the VHI for years and put up with their shoddy claims service, rude customer service agents and of course constant price increases.

Strange really how everyone's mileage varies. I haven't had any issues with VHIs claims service - it fact for me it has been painless. Their customer service agents that I have dealt with have been fine. And of course they have increases every year. But so do Bupa. And so do the doctors and so do the hospitals.

It would be nice if we didn't have to have health insurance but hey that would have to be funded from taxes and the PDs hate taxes.