Veggies are more intelligent!!

Nature Boy

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/?jp=CWIDSNEYOJID

Blub2k4

Headline is a bit misleading, it suggests that more intelligent people are more likely to be vegetarian, makes sense, if you work it out, the reasoning that's needed to work out the cruelty and responsibility issues won't necessary be possible for someone who's not so smart.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

It's fairly tenuous th.
Anyway there's nothing more satisfying than a good steak.

is_that_so

Less than 10,000 people is hardly definitive. No question in there about the health aspects of vegetarianism - i.e. balanced diet.

Tar.Aldarion

Anyway there's nothing more satisfying than a good steak.

Quiet you. I'd mod your ass for that.

Now, on to the article.
I always knew men were smarter than women.


Now, to be fair, working with percentages it's probably true(As in most vegetarians I know would be doing physics/chemistry/biology/maths/law/medicine). With greater numbers there are more high IQ people that are non-vegetarians. IQ may be slightly linked, as with what Blub24k, yet it would only be slight, and only for some people.
I think that with a lower IQ than I currently hold, I would still feel the empathy, the level of which varies from person to person. However, that said, I don't think I would have gone over all of this in mind for years, and read up before I became vegetarian if that were the case, so intelligence may come into it a litle bit, I have no idea.
I don't really see why this study was carried out at all.
Myaybe so some vegetarians can go Zomg we are smart?
They should have included Einstein in it for some variance. :d

Less than 10,000 people is hardly definitive. No question in there about the health aspects of vegetarianism - i.e. balanced diet.

Expand please? They address a little bit of the health in it. Read The China Study for a good study on health. This was not a health based survey.
What am I meant to infer from your statement?

TBH how much different is a poll like that than any poll thrown together here?

I would have to know what tests they carried out to answer that, if you have studied statistics you proabbly have a fair idea of how much or how little weight to give this.

brianthebard

Over thirty percent of the vegetarians interviewed eat fish or chicken. Also what is this;

When asked as part of a follow-up survey what they thought of the statement “The government should redistribute income,” 50% of vegetarians said they agreed compared with 41% of non-vegetarians.

meant to prove?

is_that_so

Let me rephrase.

I am NOT convinced that a study of only 10,000 people is definitive particularly as the study came to the conclusion that the result is merely "more likely". As the authors themselves noted vegetarians would be "likely" to be in certain fields of employment. From that report it is not entirely clear what they set out to achieve.
I am not knocking vegetarianism. I am questioning the purpose of studies of this nature. A study is surely designed to produce a result not a likelihood.
As for the glib comment about polls I have edited my post as it doesn't really get my point across.

Blub2k4

sean_keevey wrote:

It's fairly tenuous th.
Anyway there's nothing more satisfying than a good steak.

Troll begone, you can come back in a week if you ask nicely.

I'm not accepting this trolling in Vegetarianism .<<<<that be a full stop!

Tar.Aldarion

brianthebard wrote:

Over thirty percent of the vegetarians interviewed eat fish or chicken.

I suppose they just included pescatarians etc because they may have put the same thought into stopping the eating of meat, but may be ok with the treatment today, that there is for some animals, or that have gone back for some reason. I don't know, it seems rather weird.

Also what is this; meant to prove?

To make things fairer or something? Along the lines fo the charity thing etc?
I have no idea, it's a really weird ambiguous paragraph.

Let me rephrase.

I am NOT convinced that a study of only 10,000 people is definitive particularly as the study came to the conclusion that the result is merely "more likely". As the authors themselves noted vegetarians would be "likely" to be in certain fields of employment. From that report it is not entirely clear what they set out to achieve.

I suppose they set out to achieve whether vegetarians were smarter than omnivores, or the opposite.
Also, to see if they were more caring, charity, public sectors etc...

I am not knocking vegetarianism. I am questioning the purpose of studies of this nature. A study is surely designed to produce a result not a likelihood.

Studies are made for accuracy, not results, I think you have that mixed up. No study can really give a hundred percent fact, studies just strive to give the most accurate answer.
I also question why this study was done at all tbh.
A small sample size, one culture, etc, the study may well be right, but, it would have to be a far bigger sample size for it to be in any way accurate.

Always remember; "There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Blub2k4

I think it makes more sense, I think you'll find a corresponding number of middle to high income families will have a higher incidence of vegetarianism.

They will also be the higher intelligence groups at the same time, I might be wrong in this but I'd be surprised if I was.

<edit> the reasons for the study is no doubt some vegetarian activist trying to prove they're smarter, instead of just accepting peoples choices for what they are, personal choices.

Tar.Aldarion

Blub2k4 wrote:

I think it makes more sense, I think you'll find a corresponding number of middle to high income families will have a higher incidence of vegetarianism.

They will also be the higher intelligence groups at the same time, I might be wrong in this but I'd be surprised if I was.

do you mean due to education or as regards raw IQ?

<edit> the reasons for the study is no doubt some vegetarian activist trying to prove they're smarter, instead of just accepting peoples choices for what they are, personal choices.

I would like to find out who did this survey, and if they were all vegetarian, or not etc.
Especially why they did it, I can only see, the we are smarter than you agenda, yet, some of the studies done are for practically no reason as far as I can see.

Blub2k4

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

do you mean due to education or as regards raw IQ?




I would like to find out who did this survey, and if they were all vegetarian, or not etc.
Especially why they did it, I can only see, the we are smarter than you agenda, yet, some of the studies done are for practically no reason as far as I can see.

I'm not really a believer in raw IQ, cos it's too closely related to education.

So I'd call a mix of both, I think cash and education give the mental cushion that is needed to explore the food chain and ones affect on it and it's implications for the average person.

Blub2k4

Oh and another thing, I reckon this is probably a very EU/US centric study, there's no way it takes account of all the Asian vegetarians and indeed is absolutely not applicable in that case.

Tar.Aldarion

Blub2k4 wrote:

I'm not really a believer in raw IQ, cos it's too closely related to education.

It exists all right(imo), but education and IQ are intrinsically combined.
You start off, your nurture and education and your interests ripen your fruits or whatever. However, you are limited by your genes.
Their relationship:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ#Genetics_versus_environment
Etc.

So I'd call a mix of both, I think cash and education give the mental cushion that is needed to explore the food chain and ones affect on it and it's implications for the average person.

Yup, that would be true for a lot of vegetarians, also you need to have choice in food to become one, which the less well off would not...
A few would just have empathy as enough of a reason and without research become one.

Oh and another thing, I reckon this is probably a very EU/US centric study, there's no way it takes account of all the Asian vegetarians and indeed is absolutely not applicable in that case.

Yup, I mentioned that it was probably one culture above, it doesn't take into account other cultures and vegetarianism through religion, I would imagine.

brianthebard

After a bit of sleuthing I found the Original report

Am trying to find information on the authors now, afaik they are paediatrics...

Conclusion Higher scores for IQ in childhood are associated with an increased likelihood of being a vegetarian as an adult.

Tbh I find that to be a bit of a stretch of the imagination, especially considering the tiny figures. There is nothing else taken into account other than diet and childhood IQ, but IQ develops at different speeds in different people and can be influenced, so its not a fixed concept.

Tar.Aldarion

The authors look to be well trained, find anything else about them?


This report may not be definitive (By some long shot!) b ut I still think the results are quite possibly true due to reasons outlined by Blub and I...
However, this study, dubious!

Backtoblack

brianthebard wrote:

Over thirty percent of the vegetarians interviewed eat fish or chicken.

I eat fish. (not chicken) but do not eat any other meat.
The correct term for a "vegetarian" fish eater is a "Pescetarian".

Killaqueen!!!

So when us carnivores eat animal brains, we don't get smarter?

rediguana

My girlfriend is a pescatarian and she's quite brainy. QED.

Tar.Aldarion

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

So when us carnivores eat animal brains, we don't get smarter?

So, carnivore eh?


Anyway rediguana just proved it.
His gf is a smart pescatarian, mine is a smart vegan and I am a smart vegetarian.
Frankly, quod erat demonstrandum.
:P

Backtoblack

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

So, carnivore eh?


Anyway rediguana just proved it.
His gf is a smart pescatarian, mine is a smart vegan and I am a smart vegetarian.
Frankly, quod erat demonstrandum.
:P

Excuse me (said a voice in the background) .... "I'm a very smart pescetarian (I even spell it with an "e" just like it does in the dictionary)!!"
"I demand to be mentioned in the proof"

rediguana

Backtoblack wrote:

Excuse me (said a voice in the background) .... "I'm a very smart pescetarian (I even spell it with an "e" just like it does in the dictionary)!!"
"I demand to be mentioned in the proof"

It's a dull mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.

Backtoblack

rediguana wrote:

It's a dull mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.

I have good grammer. I'm sorry. I expect others to be pedantic as I am.

Tar.Aldarion

But rediguana's girlfriend is a smart pescatarian. :P

rediguana

Backtoblack wrote:

I have good grammer. I'm sorry. I expect others to be pedantic as I am.

My spelling's usually perfect. My head literally spins when I reminisce about all the gold stars I used to get in school.

'Pescetarian' is a new word, is it not? Today was the first time I've had occasion to write it, and I've never seen it in print before.

Why am I so USELESS at everything? ;(

Backtoblack

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

But rediguana's girlfriend is a smart pescatarian. :P

You thought I would show you all up, my being very smart and you lot being just smart?

Backtoblack

rediguana wrote:

My spelling's usually perfect. My head literally spins when I reminisce about all the gold stars I used to get in school.

'Pescetarian' is a new word, is it not? Today was the first time I've had occasion to write it, and I've never seen it in print before.

Why am I so USELESS at everything? ;(

There there, I make a lot of people feel useless.. don't get upset about it.

rediguana

Backtoblack wrote:

There there, I make a lot of people feel useless.. don't get upset about it.

I wouldn't mind only I subscribe to www.dictionary.com 's 'Word of the Day'. I can remember the short ones, like 'Ken', but I struggle at lengthier ones. I wish I was one of those idiot savants who could remember all the rules and who could memorise things easily ;(

Backtoblack

rediguana wrote:

I wouldn't mind only I subscribe to www.dictionary.com 's 'Word of the Day'. I can remember the short ones, like 'Ken', but I struggle at lengthier ones. I wish I was one of those idiot savants who could remember all the rules and who could memorise things easily ;(

Well look at it this way KEN was word of the day on www.dictionary.com on October 9, 2001 & you've remembered it all this time!!!
That's pretty good going.

I used to suscribe to it, but I dont' have time at work!
I need to change my job!

rediguana

Backtoblack wrote:

Well look at it this way KEN was word of the day on www.dictionary.com on October 9, 2001 & you've remembered it all this time!!!
That's pretty good going.

I used to suscribe to it, but I dont' have time at work!
I need to change my job!

I recently subscribed to the Spanish word of the day too.

Day one -> PULMON (lung).
Day two -> ELEFENTE (elephant).

I'm going to Barcelona on Tuesday. I'll be able to saunter confidently into any tapas bar and hit them with my internet spanish. They'll be blown away.

Backtoblack

rediguana wrote:

I recently subscribed to the Spanish word of the day too.

Day one -> PULMON (lung).
Day two -> ELEFENTE (elephant).

I'm going to Barcelona on Tuesday. I'll be able to saunter confidently into any tapas bar and hit them with my internet spanish. They'll be blown away.

I was there a few months ago - I loved it!!! If I were to move from Dublin I would move there.
Check out the vegetarian "chipper" on the main street, they do a yum falafel!
I can't think of the name of it at the moment but you can't miss it. What a great city!!!

rediguana

Backtoblack wrote:

I was there a few months ago - I loved it!!! If I were to move from Dublin I would move there.
Check out the vegetarian "chipper" on the main street, they do a yum falafel!
I can't think of the name of it at the moment but you can't miss it. What a great city!!!

Grazie

Backtoblack

rediguana wrote:

Grazie

Enjoy it!! Goudi's good and Picasso!
Can I go with you????

How long are you going for?

Mr. Presentable

What I don't understand is, if veggies are more intelligent why they can't work out that fish and chicken are animals

Backtoblack

nipplenuts wrote:

What I don't understand is, if veggies are more intelligent why they can't work out that fish and chicken are animals

Chicken & all other birds I dont' eat.
Fish, well it started as a stepping stone to eat fish but not other meats and see how I got on with it, diet wise etc when I became a veggie. I could yet give up fish too..but for the moment I'm doing my bit.
I've never had the same fondness for fish as I have had for animals either.. might be something to what Kurt Cobain said about them not having any feelings. Actually its a good point to bring up because I've not thought too much about it and perhaps I should consider it & give fish up too.

Nature Boy

nipplenuts wrote:

What I don't understand is, if veggies are more intelligent why they can't work out that fish and chicken are animals

We have worked out that they're animals. That's why we don't eat them.

Backtoblack

Nature Boy wrote:

We have worked out that they're animals. That's why we don't eat them.

True. I've never heard of a vegetarian eating chicken to be honest, and today at sesamee street, we learned that a "vegetarian" that does eat fish is called a pescetarian, so therefore NatureBoy is correct and very intellegently so.
We also learned today that pescetarians are very smart.

Tar.Aldarion

nipplenuts wrote:

What I don't understand is, if veggies are more intelligent why they can't work out that fish and chicken are animals

It's people that are not vegetarian that make the mistake usually, they assme if I am vegetarian that I may eat fish or chicken...

So many pedants on the forum, and a gold star person, like myself.
If you are interested I am the mod of the private pedantry forum... if you wish to post there, ask for access.

Peanut

Backtoblack wrote:

I was there a few months ago - I loved it!!! If I were to move from Dublin I would move there.
Check out the vegetarian "chipper" on the main street, they do a yum falafel!
I can't think of the name of it at the moment but you can't miss it. What a great city!!!

Maozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Actaully there's 3 of them in Barcelona, there's the one on Las Ramblas and then there are 2 others on one of the mains streets off that one (towards the old/historic town centre I think)..

brianthebard

Backtoblack wrote:

Chicken & all other birds I dont' eat.
Fish, well it started as a stepping stone to eat fish but not other meats and see how I got on with it, diet wise etc when I became a veggie. I could yet give up fish too..but for the moment I'm doing my bit.
I've never had the same fondness for fish as I have had for animals either.. might be something to what Kurt Cobain said about them not having any feelings. Actually its a good point to bring up because I've not thought too much about it and perhaps I should consider it & give fish up too.

whats your principal reason for not eating meat other than fish then? the amount of pain the animal feels at time of death, or the way they are treated while being raised?

Backtoblack

brianthebard wrote:

whats your principal reason for not eating meat other than fish then? the amount of pain the animal feels at time of death, or the way they are treated while being raised?

apparently they don't feel that much pain at time of death... apparently..
.. I won't list all the obvious ones but a lot of my reasoning is to do with the huge ignorance in the world about huge problems that exist that we are blissfully ignorant towards and care so little to learn anything about.. one of those being animal cruelty and the cruelty & inhumanity shown to our fellow human beings in so many third world countries etc etc etc.
What's your principal reason for asking?


Edited for grammer.

brianthebard

Because I'm interested, it wasn't an attack, just curious. Personally I'm not a vegetarian, I read these boards because the way food is created is important to me and I find that vegetarians often care more about this sort of thing than an omnivore.(generalisation alert!)

Anyways, in this country the procedures for killing animals are super super strict and generally I believe that animals feel almost no pain when they are killed, although perhaps others don't agree.

Whats important to me is that the food I eat is treated well when it is being grown, whether it be flora or fauna. So I tend to eat free range/organic meat unless its not possible. Having said that I am of two minds about fish, because of overfishing and the damage that has been done to habitat and issues like that. I eat fish, but I'm not always sure I should if you follow.

so that's all really.

Backtoblack

brianthebard wrote:

Because I'm interested, it wasn't an attack, just curious. Personally I'm not a vegetarian, I read these boards because the way food is created is important to me and I find that vegetarians often care more about this sort of thing than an omnivore.(generalisation alert!)

Anyways, in this country the procedures for killing animals are super super strict and generally I believe that animals feel almost no pain when they are killed, although perhaps others don't agree.

Whats important to me is that the food I eat is treated well when it is being grown, whether it be flora or fauna. So I tend to eat free range/organic meat unless its not possible. Having said that I am of two minds about fish, because of overfishing and the damage that has been done to habitat and issues like that. I eat fish, but I'm not always sure I should if you follow.

so that's all really.

I think apart from not eating fish, one should try to get involved in some way to try to better the fishing industry. Maybe the Green Party?
Better than feeling so uneasy about one's diet anyway, i'm sure.