Foriegn plated cars on our roads?

kdevitt

A guy in our office said the same thing to me a while back - he was talking about buying an M5 back home and bringing it over because it would be affordable without tax and insurance!! And according to him, all his friends are doing the same - cars not even insured in Poland, and if they're stopped, the Gardai have no way of verifying it and don't attempt to either. The road tax alone that these guys are getting away with is unreal.

professore

ned78 wrote:

Whoah whoah whoah, who said anything about uninsured? They're two totally different arguments. People from other countries drive here on EU plates with Insurance. My girlfriend for one, and my sister for another. They regularly visit on holidays with their own Insurance, and for the record, my sister's UK Insurance policy and my girlfriend's Polish policy entitle them to drive 12 months of the year in another country. Of course my girlfriend's car spends most of it's little life in Poland, but that's besides the point.

Common Market boys, see the bigger picture here. You read reports of a few uninsured drivers and automatically tar any one from Poland, Czesc Republic or Lithuania with the same brush.

Common market? Why can't we buy insurance in Poland then if we have a common market? There is no such thing as the common market.

maidhc

They are insured alright. We are paying for it through our MIBI contributions. :mad:

professore

Mc-BigE wrote:

This is not a VRT issue, its a Safety issue first, Motor Tax issue second.

I have no problem with non nationals in Ireland and if they can prove to a garda when stopped that their not working in Ireland for more than 6 months and that their car is Insured /Tax /NCT'd in country of origin. The problem is most non national cars are here for more then that and they should at least get the car NCT'd so that they don't crash into us because their car isn't road worthy.

I hate the term non-national. It's only a short step to non-person or untermensch.

professore

peasant wrote:

On the continent there are two waysto tackle this:

1) cross border co-operation between police forces. So, once you have the reg, you will find the owner/driver

2) some countries have a system of registration where you personally have to register with the authorities as soon as you move somewhere. Nothing (no social insurance, no tax, no employment) happens without registering first. This helps to track down offenders ....but imagine the popularity of such a system in Ireland

Compulsory identity cards. They have them in most European countries for a reason you know.

Owen

professore wrote:

Common market? Why can't we buy insurance in Poland then if we have a common market? There is no such thing as the common market.

No you can't buy Insurance from Poland, because Insureable risk is different. What I'm saying is you're quite entitled to, as a Polish resident, buy Insurance for your Polish Car in Poland that covers with theoretically for 12 months here in Ireland. Even if you're only legally allowed to drive it here for a short period of time on Holiday.

To the poster who claims "What if a foreign car knocks down and kills someone - the Gards have no way to trace it" ... do you truly believe there is no corporation between police forces when fatalities are involved? :rolleyes:

snaps

This is the reason he went back to buy a car, he saved thousands of euro, and saves even more without tax and insurance.

I know lots of eu nationals that when they get stopped at check points they just say they are visiting. I suppose there is no way of checking if they are working?

Owen

sprinkles wrote:

I think it is a disgrace because they aren't insured but the whole issue about not re registering their car and getting away with vrt is nonsense.

Who says they're not insured? The whole reason people keep their foreign cars on foreign plates is so they can insure the cars in the home countries for far far less than it costs here, but yet still have cover for driving abroad.

And who's not to say they go home at the end of the 6 month holiday period. A Polish/Lithuanian/Czech driver is quite entitled to drive here for a holiday period of less than 6 months, drive out of the country for a weekend, and back in for another 6 months.

How many more times to we need to have this discussion on boards?

snaps

ned78 wrote:

To the poster who claims "What if a foreign car knocks down and kills someone - the Gards have no way to trace it" ... do you truly believe there is no corporation between police forces when fatalities are involved? :rolleyes:

Well i know 3 years back here at christmas in Galway there was a serious accident outside my house where an Italian reg car skidded into another car. The passenger was seriously injured and was in hospital for 2 weeks. The Italian guy apparently patched his car up the next day and was gone. My neighbour was a witness, took all the details, but the gardai were not able to track him even though he had moved back to italy!

Also, How do we even know that these eu cars are even registered with an address or details?

What stops someone going back to their country buying a car for cash and not completing paperwork? I assume its the same ovethere then it is here?

matrim

I've no problem with someone doing this so long as the car is in good shape and they have insurance.

I know someone who did it for a year and a half. He kept a map on the seat and when he was stopped he would say he was on holiday and then ask the guard for directions to make it look like he didn't know where he was going.

Owen

snaps wrote:

but the gardai were not able to track him even though he had moved back to italy!

Ever heard of Garda Laziness? In my business I deal with both the Motor Trade, and the Gardaí (As customers) - and they can indeed trace whatever they want. It's just down to making lots and lots of phone calls/faxes/emails.

snaps wrote:

What stops someone going back to their country buying a car for cash and not completing paperwork? I assume its the same ovethere then it is here?

Why can't you accept it's the Minority of people who would do something like this? And whether their Irish, Polish, Italian, German or Welsh, some people are scumbags. The amount of generalisation on this thread is ridiculous, and that's why I'm making the arguments I've put here.

The fanatical posters on this thread are so damn quick to point the finger of blame at eastern european cars, but the truth of the matter is that the majority of these Eastern European cars are well maintained (You should see how much money these guys spend on parts from the Dealership I work in - they have huge pride in the cars they drive), Insured, and Taxed. It is in their interests to have this documentation, as quite simply, they're here to work for 3 years so they can afford a house at home. If they mess up, they're deported, and they don't want that. So 3 years = 6 trips home to keep their Holiday driving criteria legal and above board.

You would do well to look at the Irish first before pointing the finger of blame, we're the worst in the world, drink drivers, uninsured drivers, hit and run drivers, and carnage every other week. What's even more remarkable, is that with the 40, 000 Polish in Cork alone, it's Irish drivers being creamed every week.

snaps

I also know of an incident fairly recently of a hungarian reg car ploughing into the front of someones house here, taking out the 2 parked cars in the drive and the front window area of the house. The driver staggered off into the night (3am) never to be seen again. He left the tattered old car at the scene. Gardai were straight on the scene but no one knew where the culprit had gone. Yes the gardai had the car and details but the person whos car it was was living in ireland at an unkown address and the car was registered to an hungarian address!

It was a massive headache for the owners of the house and cars to try and sort out insurance claims.

I know one of the owners of the cars that was smashed up never got a penny from their insurance and was out of pocket.

maidhc

ned78 wrote:

Who says they're not insured? The whole reason people keep their foreign cars on foreign plates is so they can insure the cars in the home countries for far far less than it costs here, but yet still have cover for driving abroad.

Well most insurance policys only allow you remove the car from the jurisdiction for 30days...

The are a huge number of MIBI claims involving unisured Polish/Lativan/Random former communist county people. Irish insurance payers are funding the payouts.

The people on foreign plates are also exempt from the penalty points system, do not pay tax, and are generally untraceable. And there is feck all co operation between the Gardai and police forces in these countries...

@professore
BTW polish (etc) people are not "non-nationals" as Poland is in the EU. An American citizen is however a "non national". I don't think too many americans view themselves as "non persons".

snaps

Fair point ned78,

The eu plated cars that ive seen around my area are not in tip top condition for a fact.

My big point is that if they were driving un insured/taxed un roadworthy cars (Irish reg) they can be caught.

If these cars have eu reg plated cars they cannot.

With the carnage on our roads we need to be doing everything we can to get unsafe driver/cars of the roads. What ever nationality they are or where there car has come from.

The guy really wound us all up with his boasting about "Getting away with murder"

peasant

snaps wrote:

Fair point ned78,

The eu plated cars that ive seen around my area are not in tip top condition for a fact.

My big point is that if they were driving un insured/taxed un roadworthy cars (Irish reg) they can be caught.

If these cars have eu reg plated cars they cannot.

With the carnage on our roads we need to be doing everything we can to get unsafe driver/cars of the roads. What ever nationality they are or where there car has come from.

The guy really wound us all up with his boasting about "Getting away with murder"

There is absolutely nothing to keep a guard from taking an unsafe car (any car, no matter what reg) straight off the road ...they just couldn't be bothered.

As for insurance, like I said before, there is a system in place to check for it, the international green insurance card. Ask any guard if he/she has ever heard of this ...I doubt it.

Lack of enforcement is the issue. Proper checks and you'd get any chancers off the road pretty quickly.

Victor_M

Customs & Excise are the guys to look after this, I had numerous Eastern European cars removed from my estate last year, I rang around until I spoke to someone who was responsible for dealing with foreign registered cars in Ireland for longer than the legally allowed period of time. This is the reply I got form him

"Thanks for your e-mail. Revenue are responsible for enforcing Vehicle
Registration Tax (VRT) in the State.
I am responsible for the enforcement of VRT in the Dublin Region.

There are a number of situations whereby a foreign registered vehicle could
be used legitimately in the State.
Each case is decided on its individual circumstances.

You say in you e-mail that there are a number of vehicles (5 at least) on
your road, If you supply me with the details of these vehicle and there
location I will have the matter investigated.

We are constantly carrying out operations with regard to the detection /
seizure of cars from persons who do not qualify to drive foreign registered
vehicles.

Please do not hesitate to contact me


Regards


Dave Ward
PH. 01 8776436"

He's a sound guy and within 5 working days all the cars I reported to him were gone. If the cars reported are here legally the owners have nothing to worry about, so, Ring up (I can't find his email address unfortunately), make sure you have the address, reg, colour and exact make and model.

I got sick of whinging about these cars, it's much more safisfying doing sometthing about it!

snaps

I would say i would have to contact the Galway office.

Im not sure of his address, just that he works in same building as me and i know where he parks his car everyday.

Owen

maidhc wrote:

Well most insurance policys only allow you remove the car from the jurisdiction for 30days...

Both my Polish girlfriend's Policy, and my UK based Sister's Policy cover them to drive in another European country for 12 months if necessary.

maidhc

ned78 wrote:

Both my Polish girlfriend's Policy, and my UK based Sister's Policy cover them to drive in another European country for 12 months if necessary.

Interesting. Hibernian only cover one month abroad.

snaps

yes, i am insured with hibernian and i travelled around europe last summer for 8 weeks. They agreed to cover me for that period but I do wonder what would have happened if i had an accident.

Their standard policy is 28 days abroad.

Also there is no such thing as a green card anymore, thats what they told me anyway.

Sandwich

Mc-BigE wrote:

The problem is most non national cars are here for more then that and they should at least get the car NCT'd so that they don't crash into us because their car isn't road worthy.

Is a groundless argument. Check the stats on accident causes - driver error, speeding, drink, drugs etc.

Who ever heard of the cause of the accident being an unroadworthy car????????

Owen

maidhc wrote:

Interesting. Hibernian only cover one month abroad.

On Irish Policies ... and we all know how great Irish Insurance policies are. :rolleyes:

maidhc

Sandwich wrote:

Who ever heard of the cause of the accident being an unroadworthy car????????

It is pretty common!

E@gle.

as long as they have an address in their home country they can get away with it. but the guards can impound there car for no tax/insurance it was brought in a few months ago

Sizzler

ned78 wrote:

To the poster who claims "What if a foreign car knocks down and kills someone - the Gards have no way to trace it" ... do you truly believe there is no corporation between police forces when fatalities are involved? :rolleyes:

Regardless of the accident's end result, be it a small scrape or a fatality (god forbid) how do you honestly think a phone call back to Riga is going to tell a Guard here where the car is Do they have GPS on all their cars leaving the country...erm NO!

My friends dad had his year old passat written off back in the summer by 3Polish builders on their way to work, they took a right at a 'no right turn' junction in Dublin city centre at 6am one morning.Police arrived took their details and ambulances came and took everybody away to be checked out, even though there was no obvious injuries. The guards went to the address the lads gave 3 days later with a view to getting them into the station to be charged with dangerous driving and guess what...they'd pegged it home the day previous. They also claimed at the time they had Polish insurance and when checked they did....for driving in Poland. Not hearsay, a REAL story.

Have to say, its just very frustrating to see it right before my eyes EVERY day of the week, I dont blame the EU folk so much for taking advantage, I blame 'the system' :mad:

Owen

maidhc wrote:

It is pretty common!

Actually, it's not. When the NCT was originally launched, everyone decreed what a farce it was as less than 3% of accidents are caused by vehicle failure, and even then, it's usually down to bald tyres.

maidhc

ned78 wrote:

Actually, it's not. When the NCT was originally launched, everyone decreed what a farce it was as less than 3% of accidents are caused by vehicle failure, and even then, it's usually down to bald tyres.

I don't think there is anything farcical about requiring people to have their car in roadworthy condition tbh. The NCT forces people to cough up for things like getting headlamps aligned and dodgy suspensions sorted.

Tanabe

Totally agree with Maidhc! NCT is all about cleaner safer cars.

@Ned78 I think you need to loosen up, nobody here is launching a personal attack on your Polish girlfriend (I get the feeling you're very defensive about the subject for this reason). It's to do with foreign registered cars taking advantage of a loophole that currently exists with the Irish system.

I do hope that customs & excise are cracking down on this scam. From reading the stories here we can see what happens when an accident occurs - feck all traceability.

If visitors are working/staying here for a period greater than 12 months they should be hit with the good aul VRT like the rest of us regardless if they go home for a weekend and come back again.

If somebody is aware of individuals who fall into this category then they should be reported in fairness.

Seth Brundle

There is no loophole in the system. It is just that the current system is being abused.
When someone arrives in Ireland with a car that they do not plan on re-registering then assuming they can match the criteria they must register with the VRO so that their details are still on file. This is not happening in most cases.

peasant

Tanabe wrote:

If visitors are working/staying here for a period greater than 12 months they should be hit with the good aul VRT like the rest of us regardless if they go home for a weekend and come back again.

You're still barking up the wrong tree ...

VRT is not really the issue. If somebody moves to Ireland (for whatever period) as long as they owned their vehicle for more than six months previously, they are VRT excempt!

There are a few problems, though ...

On the one hand, you are supposed to re-register your vehicle immediatedly (the following day) after your arrival in Ireland ...

on the other hand, you don't need to register your car here, if you're not a permanent resident (i.e a student or on a short term contract or a visitor)

Now ...only a small percentage of people coming here know on the day that they arrive that they will be or become a permanent resident in the near future. They arrive as visitors or on short term employment contracts, so initially they quite legally drive on foreign plates.

When and how they actually become "permanent resident" is somewhat hazy and different from case to case. Add to that the fact that most of these people are here to save money and work as hard as they can and you can't really blame them for not wanting to go through the hazzle of registering their car here and re-registering it once they go back.
Add to that the further fact that the Irish authorities on registering your car here take all your original documents off you and issue you with Irish ones. Fine, as long as the car stays in Ireland ...a bloody buereaucratic mess once you want to re-register the same car in its country of origin a year down the line, because all your Polish/Latvian/Estonian/German, etc documentation has disappeared down some dark official channel.

The whole system isn't exactly clearly defined and user-friendly.

As long as all these people keep their cars insured and in roadworthy condition, I have no real issue with them driving on foreign plates.

Of course, (even though they don't have to pay VRT), they would be liable for Irish road tax at some stage ...but seenashow road tax doesn't improve roads anyway but instead disappears in the general kitty for squandered tax payers money I can't exactly summon a rage over that one either