Foriegn plated cars on our roads?

Tanabe

kbannon wrote:

There is no loophole in the system. It is just that the current system is being abused.
When someone arrives in Ireland with a car that they do not plan on re-registering then assuming they can match the criteria they must register with the VRO so that their details are still on file. This is not happening in most cases.

If the current system is open to abuse then there IS a loophole. And we know this IS happening.

@Peasant:

It's fair enough to say that most visitors don't know initially how long they will be in Eire for but once a period of 12 months has lapsed they should be liable for tax and everything else just the same as an Irish citizen. Agreed, the paperwork probably is a mess & no proper system is currently in place to support such instances but I for one would be screaming for such instances to be accounted for.

Ok forget the VRT issue. Tax/Insurance/NCT should still definitely apply.

snaps

The guy I am on about has lived and worked here for over 5 years. He went back to his country just to buy a brand new car (Not second hand) and then drove it back again. This was well over 2 years ago so I can make out.

Tanabe

Report him.:mad:

Owen

Well said Peasant!

snaps

I'll try to find the local number for Galway. Not sure what department etc to speak to.

Del2005

Vehicle Registration Office Custom House,
Flood Street,
Galway.
Monday to Friday:
9:30 - 16:00
091-536300

Silvera

I have spoken to different gardai on this topic before, and they all said they DO regularly stop foreign-reg cars and check their licence and insurance.

The Polish, Lithuanian, etc insurance policies are obviously written in their native language, but the start and expiry dates are apparently clear to see on these policies....so it's easy to tell if they are valid or not.
Likewise with foreign driving licences.

I also agree with previous commentators that we should not be 'blackening' the name of foreign workers in this country. I'm sure the vast majority of them are here to make an honest living for themselves and have their insurance etc in order.

However, we all should report cases of uninsured or unregistered cars, whether they are being driven around for months by foreign OR Irish drivers!


As regards the issue of not being able to trace foreign reg cars.....perhaps we should introduce a system whereby such cars entering the country are supplied with Irish registration plates along the lines of the current (temporary) 'ZZ' registration plates ??

('ZZ' plates are temporary plates valid for one month. Usually issued for people who buy new cars here and bring them home to the UK. The plates are silver-on-black in colour. Issued by the AA on behalf of the govt.)

My 2c

Sizzler

I emailed my local VRO office on the back of an article in the Indo a fortnight ago regarding a 'clampdown' on foreign reg'd cars by the Revenue Commissioners. I simply asked what a member of the public needed to do if they wanted to report a vehicle that needed their attention. He replied back and said he had passed my query to his manager in the customs house. A week passes and I've heard nothing back. I reply to him again and he says he has now passed my query to the enforcement section....still nothing. Seems like they A)Dont deal with public queries, B)Lazy or C) Arent bothered :mad:

Im going to email him again now actually and ask him which one of the above it is

Theres a nice 2002'ish Audi A8 around the corner from me on UK plates being driven by a nice lad from Latvia for the past 6 months, Im sure thats worth a few quid to the tax coffers!
No sign of any 'wallpaper' on the windscreen either :mad:

gyppo

Silvera wrote:

I have spoken to different gardai on this topic before, and they all said they DO regularly stop foreign-reg cars and check their licence and insurance.

The Polish, Lithuanian, etc insurance policies are obviously written in their native language, but the start and expiry dates are apparently clear to see on these policies....so it's easy to tell if they are valid or not.
Likewise with foreign driving licences.

I also agree with previous commentators that we should not be 'blackening' the name of foreign workers in this country. I'm sure the vast majority of them are here to make an honest living for themselves and have their insurance etc in order.

However, we all should report cases of uninsured or unregistered cars, whether they are being driven around for months by foreign OR Irish drivers!


As regards the issue of not being able to trace foreign reg cars.....perhaps we should introduce a system whereby such cars entering the country are supplied with Irish registration plates along the lines of the current (temporary) 'ZZ' registration plates ??

('ZZ' plates are temporary plates valid for one month. Usually issued for people who buy new cars here and bring them home to the UK. The plates are silver-on-black in colour. Issued by the AA on behalf of the govt.)

My 2c

I'm not trying to blacken any nationality here, and totally agree that all cases of non-insurance should be penalised, be they foreign or irish.

However, foreign insurance policies and licences could be forgeries - how is a guard at a checkpoint to know whether or not it is valid.? Or is there some way these can be validated?
The Guards should be easily able to identify forged documents written in english - might not be so easy in other languages though.

Wishbone Ash

gyppo wrote:

The Guards should be easily able to identify forged documents written in english - might not be so easy in other languages though.

The language used in a forgery would be irrevelant as it would be the exact same as a genuine one (to avoid detection). If you were going to forge a banknote, wouldn't you use the same language as on a genuine one? There are many other ways of detecting forged documents, otherwise how would airport officials deal with foreign passports if forged.

gyppo

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The language used in a forgery would be irrevelant as it would be the exact same as a genuine one (to avoid detection). If you were going to forge a banknote, wouldn't you use the same language as on a genuine one? There are many other ways of detecting forged documents, otherwise how would airport officials deal with foreign passports if forged.

Thats fine for 'generic' items such as passports, and drivers licences too, I suppose.
But picture a guard at a checkpoint recieving a piece of A4 paper purporting to be an insurance policy document where the text is in a language totally foreign to him/her. The only things that make sense are the numbers on it. How can it be proven to be valid on the side of the road??

Or am I equating foreign insurance documents with domestic ones - maybe there is a 'generic' or 'standard' policy document on continetal Europe. Can anyone put me straight on this?

maidhc

Wishbone Ash wrote:

There are many other ways of detecting forged documents, otherwise how would airport officials deal with foreign passports if forged.

In relation to passports the ICAO set standards that are followed by all nationalities. It would be completely unworkable if every country used different types of passport documents, for the precise reason that no one would know what was real and what was forged.

For insurance, the fact as to whether a foreigner is or is not insured may be buried in clause 19 out of 76 on the insurance document. Can a garda reasonably be expected to know one way or the other.

Seth Brundle

Tanabe wrote:

If the current system is open to abuse then there IS a loophole. And we know this IS happening.

There isn't a loophole - the law is quite clear. People are simply and openly breaking the law. if someone is moving here and wants to bring their car then they must register with the VRO. If their stay is less than 12 months then they will not have to register it here nor will they have to pay VRT. The majority of people bringing in a car (when they are comng to work) do not make any contact with the VRO.

Silvera wrote:

As regards the issue of not being able to trace foreign reg cars.....perhaps we should introduce a system whereby such cars entering the country are supplied with Irish registration plates along the lines of the current (temporary) 'ZZ' registration plates ??

Im not sure how workable that is as you would need permanent checkpoints along the border and any car coming across (even for a shortcut!) would need to register.

Sizzler wrote:

Seems like they A)Dont deal with public queries, B)Lazy or C) Arent bothered :mad:

It could be D) you are dealing with the civil service which would encompass both b) and c)!

Hotblack Desiato

kbannon wrote:

Im not sure how workable that is as you would need permanent checkpoints along the border and any car coming across (even for a shortcut!) would need to register.

Not a runner anyway, as the EU prohibits any insurance checkpoints at point of entry.
Also once you're insured in your home country and have a full licence you're legal to drive throughout the EU. All EU policies are valid for at least 28 days outside of the home country, and we're not allowed discriminate against foreign reg vehicles by having any document checks or registration processes at entry. Not that it would be workable anyway, we have a land border after all.

The law isn't broken at point of entry, it's broken when the 'foreign' insurance runs out and/or when the 12 month VRT registration deadline is broken.

It could be D) you are dealing with the civil service which would encompass both b) and c)!

Or maybe (e) Customs have a huge upsurge in foreign reg vehicles to check up on but are under-resourced and the cap on civil servant numbers prevents them recruiting more staff - and in most of these VRT cases there's no tax revenue at stake. They'd regard question marks over insurance as a Garda matter. I'd rather they'd prioritise catching drug shipments over hassling every foreign reg car coming off the ferry.

Owen

Silvera wrote:

I have spoken to different gardai on this topic before, and they all said they DO regularly stop foreign-reg cars and check their licence and insurance.

That they do, I got stopped on my Ducati 916 when I was bringing it back from the UK, I was stopped in fact 3 times in total. Once at the Rosslare Ferry port, once before Waterford, and once when I was driving it down Patrick's Street here in Cork. Vigilant lil buggers

netwhizkid

It is a total disgrace, I as an Irish citizen had to pay €1,100 in VRT on my BMW I imported from London last June. Anyway's it is a disgrace but I say fair play to the polish latvians etc for exploiting the system when our dopey police,custies etc. won't do anything about it.

A question to the board? I was in Killarney today and I noticed rather unusually over near the Railway station and GSH (Great Southern Hotel*) a left hand drive Mazda 6 which was parked legally. Anyway what struck me was it had Irish number plates with the EU stars and IRL however the number were all wrong.

(I didn't get a chance to record the plate as I was in a rush) but it started with either a K or an A and was defiantly a Eastern European reg. number on an Irish physical plate. I thought it was the most sneakiset low life thing I had seen as it was done covertly to disguise the plate from Gardai attention.

The Mazda 6 was a 2006/07 model and looked brand new and was obviously just imported while the person now may get away without Tax, Insurance, NCT**, VRT and VAT all which he/she would have to pay if the car was imported under normal procedure as myself and thousands others do in attempts to get slightly better cars from the UK for a few bob less.

Anybody encounter this before??

*Great Southern Hotel recently Privatised but with the same name still
** I can't give out about NCT as I don't have it on my car but I am having it done in February.

Seth Brundle

netwhizkid wrote:

It is a total disgrace, I as an Irish citizen had to pay €1,100 in VRT on my BMW I imported from London last June. Anyway's it is a disgrace but I say fair play to the polish latvians etc for exploiting the system when our dopey police,custies etc. won't do anything about it.

translated using http://babelfish.altavista.com...
I have to pay my taxes and its not fair. Fair play to those who manage to avoid paying their fair share. The country is rich anyway and the roads are crap.
This is the same attitude that tolerated the scumbag corrupt politicians etc.

Whats a 'polish latvian' anyway?

netwhizkid wrote:

Anybody encounter this before??

Loads of times - head up towards the border and you should see loads of UK cars with similar plates. There you would find plenty of Southern cars with orange rear plates.

Silvera

I reckon most Gardai would easily spot a non-Irish 02-D, or 03-D or whatever reg regardless of the EU strip on the edge of the plate.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't see how it is fair that foreigners working here are allowed to claim childrens payments while working here but don't have to prove that they have insurance valid via an insurance disc. I don't have a problem with them going home to buy a new car or whatever, but I have doubts about thier insurance cover because I cannot see a disc.

Alun

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I don't see how it is fair that foreigners working here are allowed to claim childrens payments while working here but don't have to prove that they have insurance valid via an insurance disc. I don't have a problem with them going home to buy a new car or whatever, but I have doubts about thier insurance cover because I cannot see a disc.

FFS, they don't have insurance discs in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia or pretty much anywhere else in Europe either. That does not mean they don't have insurance.

We seem to be the only country that insists on covering our windscreens with little bits of paper, other countries have progressed into the 21st century and link everything together via the registration number. In the UK they can tell, using automated licence plate recognition systems in the cop cars, whether the owner has their car taxed, insured and MOT's and what kind of licence he has, if any. Here they rely on a scrap of paper that anybody could print out using a PC and a colour printer. What does that prove exactly?

Have you ever been outside of Ireland?

Alun

netwhizkid wrote:

A question to the board? I was in Killarney today and I noticed rather unusually over near the Railway station and GSH (Great Southern Hotel) a left hand drive Mazda 6 which was parked legally. Anyway what struck me was it had Irish number plates with the EU stars and IRL however the number were all wrong.

It could quite easily just be a replacement plate he had made up over here, and they only had the standard EU style blanks. Seen it a lot when I lived abroad, where foreigners working there temporarily had had plates made up in Holland or Germany, to replace ones that were stolen or damaged .. they looked all wrong re: spacing and typeface, but what else can you do when you're stuck?

maidhc

Alun wrote:

FFS, they don't have insurance discs in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia or pretty much anywhere else in Europe either. That does not mean they don't have insurance.

The problem ultimately arises when accident occur. Here it is repeatedly shown that many of these people are not insured, or not adequately insurd.

Alun

maidhc wrote:

Here it is repeatedly shown that many of these people are not insured, or not adequately insured.

Is it?

Or is this one of those oft quoted, but ultimately unprovable, "I heard from a friend of my uncle who heard it from a taxi driver" style boards.ie urban myths?

Mc-BigE

Looks like a great loophole! lets all book flights to Eastern Europe and buy a new car for 07. F**k the VRT/VAT Road Tax. (id live with LHD! for no VRT/VAT to pay!)

Then when the revenue see their VRT/VAT shortfall. I'd recon things might change.

If you cant beat em, join em:D

Victor_M

Alun wrote:

Is it?

Or is this one of those oft quoted, but ultimately unprovable, "I heard from a friend of my uncle who heard it from a taxi driver" style boards.ie urban myths?

My mate had his brand new Passat totalled 5 months ago by a Lithunanian who got out of his car and tried to do a runner (leaving his missus in the car, nice guy!) He was apprehended by a passer by, no tax, no Insurance. Gardai tried to follow up, he had moved out of his rental house. End of story he got away with it.

My Brother was hit on the M50/Navan road interchange 18 months ago, 4 Eastern Europeans in the car, they all got out and ran, car full of empty Beer cans.

Anyone got any examples of accidents involving fully paid up Latvians/Lithuanians?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is a lot more satisfying actually doing something about it rather than bitching continuously (and this is one of the few areas where Joe public can actually make a difference) so if you have foriegn registered cars in your area for extended periods of time call your local customs and excise office and report them.

Sizzler

I have passed on the contact numbers for the customs VRT enforcement unit to the OP, lets see how he gets on with his particular issue

snaps

I rang the office yesterday.There was no one I could speak to in regard to enforcement, Only registration queries. I will try to ring today and get on.

Victor_M

snaps. I think you said in an earlier post you are in Galway?

Just noticed you mention Galway on your sig.

Dave Ward PH. 01 8776436 - This is the guy in the Dublin, Final CoCo office, maybe try calling him and asking him who the appropriate person for your area is.

It took a fair bit of persistence before I finally got to talk to this guy. Make sure you take the persons name and follow up if nothing has been done, insist on speaking to his/her supervisor if you are not happy.

Alun

Victor_M wrote:

Anyone got any examples of accidents involving fully paid up Latvians/Lithuanians?

Quite probably, but that wouldn't be 'news' would it, and not worthy of reporting here or elsewhere? 'Man bites dog' anyone?

Victor_M

Alun wrote:

Quite probably, but that wouldn't be 'news' would it, and not worthy of reporting here or elsewhere? 'Man bites dog' anyone?

It's not a "Bad news makes for good news" issue, don't deflect from the topic by turning it into a Civil Liberties issue!

If Customs & Excise Knocks on the door of an Eastern European household and they have a legitimate reason to have their cars in Ireland for 3 years without registering, then they have nothing to worry about!

I am not claiming none of them have insurance, I have no doubt that a certain amount of them are fully insured, just like not all Irish people are insured.

I do know for certain that if there are Foriegn registered cars in the drive way of the same house for 3 years on their Original plates, then they are breaking the law and should be reported. Simple as that.