Armed gardaí to police streets over December

Boston

Backtoblack wrote:

www.rte.ie/news
www.skynews.com
www.rueters.co.uk

or

www.google.ie

Their not links to any information about killings in the IFSC. You're a liar. You see, I think i know the murder you're talking about(firday night before last), it happened close to where I live in the northStrand, which is by no means the IFSC.

markk06

DaveMcG wrote:

Nice reading there :rolleyes: Jesus you even f*cking quoted me but you managed to get it wrong.

I didn't say that addicts are shooting people -- I said they WILL. They're not gonna stop commiting crimes, are they? Do you think they are? No, they'll need to get their money from somewhere. So if they face getting shot for robbing a shop, then they're gonna have to invest in a gun of their own so that (a) they have protection from the police, and (b) they can continue on their merry way funding their addiction.



I didn't say that the gangland criminals are going to arm themselves better. I'm well aware that they're armed already with machine guns, and body armour in some cases.

But by arming the rank-and-file, you're going to force other criminals to arm themselves (eg. drug addicts), while the gangland criminals will continue to have guns. It will only endanger more lives, while it will probably lower the amount of joyriders we have. Who gives a sh*t about joyriders when the bloke who's mugging you could have a handgun rather than a syringe?



The gangland criminals don't care who they kill, correct. They're going out with the intention of shooting someone.
But a drug addict or a career burgular generally wants to get some money and then shoot up or whatever. They don't go out to kill people. By putting a gun in their hand, you're going to increase the chance of them getting a fright and shooting whoever's in the house, or if a Garda sees them they're going to try be quicker on the draw, and then more people get killed.



If I thought giving the Gardaí guns would protect them then I'd be for it. But I'd be more inclined to think that giving them guns would (a) make firearms more prevalent and acceptable in society, (b) make society more dangerous, and (c) put guns in the hands of those who don't necessarily want one.

More guns aren't the solution IMO. I'm not the Minister for Justice so it's not my job to suggest an alternative.



Ahh we've got a genius here...:rolleyes:

Its quite easy for you to say, whilst sitting reading your Sunday World or posts on Boards about the situation, that the Rank and File Gardai should not be armed. Its also possible that this may be true, however when you refer back to the subject of the discussion you will see that it is not on whether all Gardai should be armed but is regarding the fact that there will be Armed Patrols on the street in order to deal with the rise in organised crime. The stance i am coming from is that we need more of these patrols and units set up to quash the serious rise in violent criminal activity in our capital.

The people dealing with this are in organised crime units and in some cases members of the ERU. If you look back to my previous posts you will see that i pointed this out. Unfortunately the war on crime cannot be won unless the Gardai with the help of government and the judiciary come down hard on these career criminals and guns for hire and to do this it is necessary to give them the firepower they need. Try imagine you are a detective, would you not rather have a gun at your side to protect you if people similar to "Marlo" Hyland come driving by rather than face the prospect of being gunned down
, defenceless in cold blood...

CLADA

The prospect of arming the gardai across the force is not being considered. Armed Gardai have always patrolled the streets of Dublin, any unmarked car with plain clothes officers is an armed patrol. I think the headlines are a bit misleading and as usual are to keep the crime correspondents columns full of the usual "armed gardai patrol ...", "armed ring of steel ..." etc...
I think a more accurate headline would be " Increased armed patrols in Dublin to support unarmed Gardai..."

Backtoblack

monument wrote:

“Rape/muggings happen though too etc” - I know they do - that's what the above advice is aimed to avoid.

For those of you in gangs out there, I’d recommend a bullet proof vest, an MP5, and a maybe think about a change of profession.

After that guy was shot in the IFSC, I phoned my dad to ask him for a bullet proof vest for xmas coz I've moved from the sticks to Dubwarlin. He has said that I would also need an Uzi, so i think i'm getting both!

Thanks again for the advice. My dad is not really getting me armour/guns.
Just in case anyone takes me seriously. Just joking.

Backtoblack

LiouVille wrote:

Their not links to any information about killings in the IFSC. You're a liar. You see, I think i know the murder you're talking about(firday night before last), it happened close to where I live in the northStrand, which is by no means the IFSC.

No I'm talking about the one on Wednesday night (.. is there a need to confirm that there is an actual increase in crime?..) Here's the link for ya!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1214/shooting.html

markk06

CLADA wrote:

I think the headlines are a bit misleading and as usual are to keep the crime correspondents columns full of the usual "armed gardai patrol ...", "armed ring of steel ..." etc...

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there CLADA...

Gardai with automatic weapons isnt a new thing either, apparently this was commonplace back in the Eighties, to have detectives with UZIs due to the high amount of bank raids and kidnappings by the provos

punchdrunk

seen two of these coppers getting out of a big nissan 4x4 tonight at store street,they had the bulletproof vests on and all the gear
i was glad to see them

the_syco

julep wrote:

I live in Leixlip. Not the friendliest of places on a Saturday night, but I still confidently stride through the main street with my bag of chips and battered sausage from sammy's.

Thanks to the cops, that is. Before the cop station was there, there'd be fights on Thursday/Friday/Saturday, after the nightclub closed. And the cops from Lucan either wouldn't come, or take 30 minutes to get to Leixlip. Never mind the fights at the Hitchin Post, or Rockafella's. The presence of the cops calmed them alot.

Likewise for Gardai with SMG's. Half the use of them is the image. You'll think twice about doing something illegal if there's a cop nearby, and twice so when the cop is armed.

markk06 wrote:

Gardai with automatic weapons isnt a new thing either, apparently this was commonplace back in the Eighties, to have detectives with UZIs due to the high amount of bank raids and kidnappings by the provos

The provos raided banks, the Gardai go around with Uzi's. The scum hit the post-offices, the Gardai get SMG's. I call it moving with the times, tbh.

Alkers

Why Uzi's? I can't think of a worse weapon for them to have...

markk06

Simona1986 wrote:

Why Uzi's? I can't think of a worse weapon for them to have...

And what is your weapon of choice???

Dave!

markk06 wrote:

Its quite easy for you to say, whilst sitting reading your Sunday World or posts on Boards about the situation, that the Rank and File Gardai should not be armed.

God it's like you've known me all my life...!!! :eek: Maybe you're mistaking me with a member of your own family or something, but I don't read the Sunday World.

And you seem to be implying that because I'm not engaged in gun-fights when I come home from work that I'm not qualified to give my opinion on this matter (another cheap shot, clearly I didn't anticipate having to come up against this rapier wit). Are you out on the front-line or something? Something tells me you're not.

Not that it makes a difference, but there was recently a bloke shot a mere stone-throw from my house, so this affects me as much as yourself. I know you like to pretend you're some sort of veteran, but your opinion is as important as my own, so get over yourself buddy.

markk06 wrote:

Its also possible that this may be true, however when you refer back to the subject of the discussion you will see that it is not on whether all Gardai should be armed but is regarding the fact that there will be Armed Patrols on the street in order to deal with the rise in organised crime. The stance i am coming from is that we need more of these patrols and units set up to quash the serious rise in violent criminal activity in our capital.

Well some people ARE arguing that the rank-and-file should be armed, so it's quite relevent. And it's a slippery slope from having just a 'handful' of Gardai on the street carrying guns, to having the whole lot of them. The Gardai were established as an unarmed police force; once you do away with that as a principle, then you might as well just give them all guns.

Now I don't have my head in the sand, so I don't expect the Gardai to take on the criminal underworld using their Maglites. Armed units are a good idea to use against specific targets and to concentrate on known gangland areas. But having 1 or 2 Gardai with SMGs walking down O Connell Street to act as a deterrent is not a good thing for Irish society.

Better intelligence, tougher sentencing, zero-tolerance... More Garda presence on the streets... These might be exhausted first before we start dishing out m16s with every set of handcuffs.

markk06 wrote:

The people dealing with this are in organised crime units and in some cases members of the ERU. If you look back to my previous posts you will see that i pointed this out. Unfortunately the war on crime cannot be won unless the Gardai with the help of government and the judiciary come down hard on these career criminals and guns for hire and to do this it is necessary to give them the firepower they need.

It's not the responsibility of the Gardai to "come down hard" on the criminals. It's their job to apprehend them and then put them in the hands of the justice system.

The Gardai are arresting them, and they're walking the streets with criminal records as long as my arm because the justice system isn't giving them tough enough sentences. The Minister for Justice was only saying this the other day!

It's not first-time offenders who are out shooting each other. It's drug dealers who have been commiting crimes their whole lives.

I don't see how giving guns to the Gardai is going to do anything to improve this. It will just mean that we'll see shoot-outs between criminals and Gardai in the middle of the street, meaning more dead by-standers, and dead Gardai.

markk06 wrote:

Try imagine you are a detective, would you not rather have a gun at your side to protect you if people similar to "Marlo" Hyland come driving by rather than face the prospect of being gunned down
, defenceless in cold blood...

How many Gardai are being shot down daily again? The Gardai aren't there when the people are being shot! So it won't make a difference if they're carrying guns, cos it's a rare event that someone would gun down another person if there's a Garda around -- armed or unarmed.

I would rather if I were a Garda to have alternative options. You say it's a bad thing sending the Gardai to stop gangs unarmed, but you think it's good to send them in with guns? Why not just have them take part in a duel? If the Gardai are fighting in gun-fights with criminals, then you'll soon see alot of dead Gardai.

You apparantly think that fighting fire with fire is the best approach here. If you do that, then you'll find that an awful lot of people are going to get burned. And yet the flames still won't go out (to continue the fire analogy).

markk06

Dave MCG i still odnt understand why you are quoting every line i say... Clearly you are very quick today... you do realise you are quoting my points, disagreeing wit them and then voicing your own opinion which is pretty much the exact same as what i have said.

I do not profess to be an expert but would consider myself quite well up on the situation, however someone being shot outside whatever ****hole it is that you crawl out of every morning does not make you an expert either.

You will find when i said the Gardai will come down hard i included the Government and the Judiciary...

Unfortunately sending in Armed Units is not the optimum solution, but when dealing with these thugs they wont think twice about shooting you... so the simple fact of the matter is that fire with fire is the only way..

And as for Gardais getting shot... no it isnt happening every day but it happens and has happened... andwill happen unless action is taken immediately...

Dave!

markk06 wrote:

Dave MCG i still odnt understand why you are quoting every line i say... Clearly you are very quick today... you do realise you are quoting my points, disagreeing wit them and then voicing your own opinion which is pretty much the exact same as what i have said.

I'm quoting every point you make so that I can address it seperately, rather than post one big chunk of a reply and you not knowing what I'm referring to.

markk06 wrote:

I do not profess to be an expert but would consider myself quite well up on the situation, however someone being shot outside whatever ****hole it is that you crawl out of every morning does not make you an expert either.

Ahh it seems I have underestimated your intelligence! My apologies!

markk06 wrote:

You will find when i said the Gardai will come down hard i included the Government and the Judiciary...

Indeed, and they are all seperate entities.

markk06 wrote:

Unfortunately sending in Armed Units is not the optimum solution, but when dealing with these thugs they wont think twice about shooting you... so the simple fact of the matter is that fire with fire is the only way..

It's the common way, that's for sure. That doesn't mean it works. It will just mean more dead people.

markk06 wrote:

And as for Gardais getting shot... no it isnt happening every day but it happens and has happened... andwill happen unless action is taken immediately...

Yeah and that action should be closer to taking the Gardai out of the way of the bullets and using a different approach, rather than giving them a gun and a pat on the back, and wishing them luck.

It's easy for YOU to say "give them guns and send them in" because YOU'RE not a Garda, are you? Do you even know any Gardaí?

Terry

the_syco wrote:

Dublin is a place where, in broad daylight, on an open road, people get gunned down, drive by shotings happen, and you think we should just cover our f*cking heads in the sand? What'll deter you from acting a muppet more? A Garda coming towards you with a concealed pistol, or one with a SMG?

i'll give you the muggings, but it's hardly south central los angeles.
christ, by the reactions of some of the people here, you would swear we were living in a war zone. those targetted in the drive by shootings are people involved in drug dealing. f*ck them. they're the scum of the earth anyway.
you have more chance of being hit by a bus going 200 mph than you have of being shot.

The_Syco wrote:

Thanks to the cops, that is. Before the cop station was there, there'd be fights on Thursday/Friday/Saturday, after the nightclub closed. And the cops from Lucan either wouldn't come, or take 30 minutes to get to Leixlip. Never mind the fights at the Hitchin Post, or Rockafella's. The presence of the cops calmed them alot.

I'll concede to the hitcher. that place was full of lunatics. but it's gone now, never to return.
as for the police presence. one squad car parked at the gates of the castle is not much of a deterrant. the **** just pick their fights at the other end of the main street.
the surrounding towns are no better either. I was stabbed in the hand by some asshole in a pub in celbridge. I had the crap kicked out of me on the main street in Maynooth. all because i was from Leixlip. retarded? yes, completely. I'll still go to both places though. They were one chance in a million type events. most of the fights you see are friends fighting each other. and the same goes for all towns around this country and pretty much every country in the western world.

markk06

julep wrote:

those targetted in the drive by shootings are people involved in drug dealing. f*ck them. they're the scum of the earth anyway.
you have more chance of being hit by a bus going 200 mph than you have of being shot.

Ever hear of a young plumber named Anthony Campbell?? I'm pretty sure that he didnt think he was gonna be shot that day...

Black Swan

Submachine guns are for war and killing people in numbers by spraying an area with lead. Since when has Dub turned into a war zone? Guns are wrong. They create a culture of violence. Gardai should set an example for the citizenry and remain unarmed (except for extremely rare, extraordinary cases where a special, highly trained team could be called in). It's called community policing, where the Gardai are a part of the community, and the community works with them to keep the streets safe. What needs to be done is to provide the Gardai with better training, pay and benefits, not guns!

markk06

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Submachine guns are for war and killing people in numbers by spraying an area with lead. Since when has Dub turned into a war zone? Guns are wrong. They create a culture of violence. Gardai should set an example for the citizenry and remain unarmed (except for extremely rare, extraordinary cases where a special, highly trained team could be called in). It's called community policing, where the Gardai are a part of the community, and the community works with them to keep the streets safe. What needs to be done is to provide the Gardai with better training, pay and benefits, not guns!

i'm afraid community policing is lost on people who sell heroine to kids and shoot people

god knows why???:rolleyes:

djmarkus

The RUC/PSNI have guns, no real cause for concern.

Terry

well, the problem is that not many people have faith in the gardai. well judging by the posts made here anyway. i'd put most of those down to paranoid stoners and people pulled for driving offences though.
i think the gardai do a fantastic job under extreme pressure and severe critism. i'm probably alone in that feeling, but hey, what are ya gonna do?

julep

julep wrote:

well, the problem is that not many people have faith in the gardai. well judging by the posts made here anyway. i'd put most of those down to paranoid stoners and people pulled for driving offences though.
i think the gardai do a fantastic job under extreme pressure and severe critism. i'm probably alone in that feeling, but hey, what are ya gonna do?

You should come down this way something, Gardai are useless, never seem to be around when you need them nor do they turn up half the time when you ring them.
Here's how good they are, last year a house was broken into (family were away at the time) and the neighbours rang the Gardai whilst the burglars were in the house. They were in robbing the house for a good 20 - 30 minutes after the phone call, the Gardai arrived over an hour later (burglars were long gone at this stage & never caught). What really gets me about this is that none of the Gardai were out on call while this was going on and the house is only a 5 minute drive from the station :rolleyes:

Terry

yeah. the thing is, you live in Louth.
this may sound a bit callous, but i don't really care about Louth.

the smilie is to show that i'm kidding.
i still want to know why the neighbours didn't try to scare the burglars away.

julep

julep wrote:

yeah. the thing is, you live in Louth.
this may sound a bit callous, but i don't really care about Louth.

the smilie is to show that i'm kidding.
i still want to know why the neighbours didn't try to scare the burglars away.

I know of a similar incident in Monaghan that happened a few years back so it's not just Louth .
As for the neighbours, they were in their 60's, so they were most likely afraid to scare them off.

Savman

Gun deaths in Ireland this year: 23
Road traffic deaths in Ireland this year: 352

Please maintain a rational perspective here folks. :rolleyes:

Terry

I've got nothing.

Terry

Savman wrote:

Gun deaths in Ireland this year: 23
Road traffic deaths in Ireland this year: 352

Please maintain a rational perspective here folks. :rolleyes:

indeed.

OMG!!!!1112345678900
man shot in random part of Dublin turns out to be a drug dealer. people are afraid to walk the streets. study shows that people reading tabloid news reports are more frightened of violent crime than those who maintain a realistic perspective on life.

Savman

Stay at home, lock your doors. Tis the only way to be safe :D

Now where's my Final Destination DVD...

Manic Moran

Considering what is in every squad car around my neck of the woods, I'm amused by the concept of an SMG being categorised as 'heavy artillery' or 'mass death-dealing machines.' Cops all over Europe are routinely armed with MP-5s and have not often gone amuck with them. If you've ever gone through a (then) RUC checkpoint up North, you'd be quite accustomed to them. Not least, the L-85s. How does the SMG idea really vary in practice from the more normal issue of a squad of soldiers with AUGs guarding a bank delivery? (Heck, they used to use AMLs for the job) You're quite used to automatic weapons on the street, maybe you just haven't noticed them. Of course, if you don't trust the Gards, that's another issue entirely.

NTM

Hagar

Manic Moran wrote:

Of course, if you don't trust the Gards, that's another issue entirely.

I think you might be on to something here...

pigeonbutler

My 2c.

No-one's suggesting we arm every Guard. I'd be in absolute agreement with armed patrols but it needs higher visibility. It's not there to deal with public order or minor offences but with armed gangs. We need to move away from all our armed Guards being detectives that spend most of their days in the office in plain clothes. We ought to have heavily armed uniformed units patrolling the areas of our cities most plagued with gun-crime. If West Dublin had 4 uniformed cops, armed with SMGs or military issue rifles (better option for accuracy!) driving around all the time in a high powered vehicle, that could respond rapidly to any emergency calls and all the time be making a show of strength.

It may not be desirable to have our gardaí acting tough but the "come and have a go lads" attitude that such patrols would have might not do any harm. If people check statistics I'd bet there was a major short-term drop in armed robberies in the couple of months following the shooting of the armed robbers in Lusk. I'm not a believer in extra-judicial killing (or even judicial killing for that matter!) but a message needs to be sent out that the Guards will fight fire with fire and if you're prepared to rob or intimidate with a firearm that you are risking being shot dead.

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

The Black Oil

Some callers on Newstalk were saying the army should be brought in.

Christ.

_Kaiser_

The Black Oil wrote:

Some callers on Newstalk were saying the army should be brought in.

Christ.

Funnily enough (actually, not really!) I was having this debate with someone yesterday who was also in favor of this idea.

The Army are not outfitted/designed for use in a police role (look how well it's worked in Iraq, or even closer to home in NI - I'm talking moreso about public reaction as well as escations in violence) and I've been told there's advocates of this step being implemented in Bertie's offices - now that's scary!

What's next? Martial law? Curfew's? I'm not much on conspiracy theories mind, but I do think there'd be dark times ahead if this proposal gets any serious backing...

Manic Moran

Still, it would be amusing to see someone try to rob a post office, just to happen to accidently run into a section of troops.

NTM

markk06

Manic Moran wrote:

Still, it would be amusing to see someone try to rob a post office, just to happen to accidently run into a section of troops.

NTM

Evidently you arent familiar with the fact that the army regularily escort cash in transit vans

Manic Moran

markk06 wrote:

Evidently you arent familiar with the fact that the army regularily escort cash in transit vans

M'Lud, as Defense Exhibit A, I wish to refer you to my previous comments in Post #78, which I believe clearly indicate that I am indeed most familiar with the concept of the Army guarding cash deliveries.

The distinction lies in the fact that when the cash delivery van and accompanying Nissans vanish, so does, by and large, the chance of encountering armed authorities also vanish: As opposed to standing patrols, which are not related to the presence of a cash van or not, and you never know if one's around the corner if you happen to choose that moment to rob An Post.

NTM

arybvtcw0eolkf

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Funnily enough (actually, not really!) I was having this debate with someone yesterday who was also in favor of this idea.

The Army are not outfitted/designed for use in a police role (look how well it's worked in Iraq, or even closer to home in NI - I'm talking moreso about public reaction as well as escations in violence) and I've been told there's advocates of this step being implemented in Bertie's offices - now that's scary!

..

The Irish army are very well trained and equipt to work in aid to the civil power actually.

arybvtcw0eolkf

markk06 wrote:

Evidently you arent familiar with the fact that the army regularily escort cash in transit vans

This isn't a subject which should be discussed.

markk06

Mairt wrote:

This isn't a subject which should be discussed.

Why is that? am i missing something? the army arent exactly inconspicuous

kowloon

[HTML]high rise office buildings with proper modern technology
and physical infrastructure[/HTML]

Do they need to be high rise? how about just a few floors...

Manic Moran

markk06 wrote:

Why is that? am i missing something? the army arent exactly inconspicuous

"Please ignore the large elephant in the corner of the room..."

NTM

Victor

pigeonbutler wrote:

If West Dublin had 4 uniformed cops, armed with SMGs or military issue rifles (better option for accuracy!)

Rifles aren't very practical for getting in and out of cars.

It has also been traditional for (non-paramilitary) police forces to use 9mm weapons as the rounds have a short range, which is safer for the general public.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mairt wrote:

This isn't a subject which should be discussed.

Because while a conversation like this can simple pretty innocent to you, it can quickly lead onto operational matter's concerning the Guard & the Defence Forces. There was a discussion regarding this in the military forum awhile back. Operational matter don't concern you, or anyone else on this board.

'Loose lips sink ships'!!..

arybvtcw0eolkf

Victor wrote:

Rifles aren't very practical for getting in and out of cars.

It has also been traditional for (non-paramilitary) police forces to use 9mm weapons as the rounds have a short range, which is safer for the general public.

The Steyr AUG is a very adaptable weapon.

Its bulpup design makes it very easy to mount & dismount from vehicles. It can also be fitted with a shorter barrel & even comes in a 9mm version..

http://remtek.com/arms/steyr/aug/specs/family.gif

Some British police forces use it.

Currently the Irish police use the Israeli Uzi.

Victor

Mairt wrote:

The Steyr AUG is a very adaptable weapon.

Sure, but what happens the round that misses the target in an urban area?

And if they've just splashed out on new sub-machineguns, why buy rifles?

Mairt wrote:

markk06 wrote:

Evidently you arent familiar with the fact that the army regularily escort cash in transit vans

This isn't a subject which should be discussed.

I think your paranoia is getting the better of you. Thsi is something that can be seen on the streets any day of the week.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Victor wrote:

Thsi is something that can be seen on the streets any day of the week.

I'm talking about a subject which can lead into something which shouldn't be discussed here.

My paranoia?... I'm a member of the Defence Forces and well briefed on operational matter's. And discussing operational matter's serve's no one any good here.

Btw Victor, you have a PM.

markk06

Mairt wrote:

Operational matter don't concern you, or anyone else on this board.

'Loose lips sink ships'!!..

Operational matters? C'mon this is common knowledge....

Mairt wrote:

Currently the Irish police use the Israeli Uzi.

Now who's talking about "operational matters"???

Mairt wrote:

My paranoia?... I'm a member of the Defence Forces and well briefed on operational matter's. And discussing operational matter's serve's no one any good here.

I'm voicing my opinions (as are most people i assume) as a general member of the public... However coming on and saying you are "well briefed" is ridiculous... if you are in the defence forces you shouldnt be mentioning it at all

Dyr

Mairt wrote:

Currently the Irish police use the Israeli Uzi.

Are they still using uzi's? jeebus, well i suppose it increases their chances of actually hitting something*




*"something " not necessarily being the bad guys

Manic Moran

I think you might want to redefine your definition of operational matters. TTPs and schedules should be off-limits. Saying that the Army actually does a task is not only not an Opsec issue, it is something that the humble taxpayer probably has a right to know as they are spending money on it. Fortunately, knowing isn't any harder than just looking out the window of the bus, as the Army doesn't take many efforts to hide their presence, even the opposite.

NTM

Savman

Mairt wrote:

I'm talking about a subject which can lead into something which shouldn't be discussed here.

Jeebus Mairt you're having a laugh surely? I suppose you think a few of us Boardsies might use the information to go and ram a Securicor van in a smash & grab job? Ridiculous.

Mairt wrote:

My paranoia?... I'm a member of the Defence Forces and well briefed on operational matter's.

What about the 1st + 2nd Rules of Fight Club...:rolleyes:

stovelid

We do have armed police, mate.

IMO, armed special branch or ERU Garda have been sufficient for the republican and/or criminal gun crimes in the Republic.

Despite the awful Anthony Campbell incident, the recent crime shootings seem to be mostly criminal on criminal and not, as the certain elements of the press would have it; open season on either Garda or the public.

Only when it gets to that stage, should we consider arming rank and file Garda.

DaveMcG wrote:

It was only a matter of time before our police would grab some arms. It's only a matter of time now before a pistol is part of the uniform for the rank-and-file. We've had it pretty sweet for so long, in that we haven't had a gun problem, organised crime wasn't an issue, and the Gardaí could just stroll around telling groups of teenagers to move on. But we're living in a rapidly changing country, crime is on the increase, and gangs are killing each other in the middle of the street. Like so many other developed countries, the police are going to get guns. It's inevitable -- although maybe not desirable.

Manic Moran

stovelid wrote:

not, as the certain elements of the press would have it; open season on either Garda or the public.

Only when it gets to that stage, should we consider arming rank and file rank and file Garda.

What's "Open Season?"

One in two years? Ten? Fifteen?

NTM