Flirty Phone Messages

LegacyUser

'Thanks Moto - I enjoyed reading your post.

I think some of the other posters dont know what it feels like, thats why there are names and things flying all over the place.

I cant take it anymore. I do love him, but my feelings have definately changed towards him. I dont trust him. I was with him last night and I could hardly look at him. That is not a good sign. When I was with him, all I could think about was getting the hell out of there.

I know I cannot undo what I did, what I read etc. There is no point in making him miserable also. I have to make a decision. The only thing stopping me is that its Christmas on Monday.'

Vyse

I had a similar problem around 10 years ago. All down to insecurity and distance between me and my then girlfriend. Acted a lot like you're acting now; distant and cold and I convinced myself that I wanted to dump her. I just couldn't deal with it.

Needless to say this was all in my head and she dumped me fairly promptly after that. I was gutted for months, despite my assertations that I was going to dump her. Took me a very long time to get over her. Don't be suprised if you end up in the same situation.

turbot

Ishindar wrote:

The OP simply has a different opinion to turbot and there is no need to call her names etc. everyone has a different perspective of what a relationship should be like and there is no right or wrong.

I totally disagree with the above statement you have posted.

Every body has a different perspective, however:

- this does not mean there is no right or wrong.

- this does not mean that all perspectives are equalliy valid and correct

- this does not mean that the ways people form their perspectives are equally smart and wise

Most modern films and TV Dramas, like 24, especially play upon the human process of making sense of things, only to change the context and the meaning of what has come before.

Because of this:

- Sometimes perspectives are incorrect and people make mistakes

- Sometimes actions, taken based upon incorrect perspectives, are wrong.

In this situation, I'm especially aware of this, because I am a guy, and I am a flirt. Making people feel good may lead to attraction, but this is more of a mutual compliment and fun interactions, than anything to do with cheating.

Talking to people is one of lifes pleasures... and I could not be in a relationship where I was not allowed to have contact with other women and be myself in such interactions. This has nothing to do with cheating.


Real Life Example 1:

I'm in Egypt, at a breakfast buffet. One of the waiters smiles to to one of my female friends while she is getting her breakfast and says "Hello - Did you see me in your dreams?"

She smiles, amused. Then the waiter realises her boyfriend is standing right next to her and says to him "Oh - shes your girlfriend".

Her boyfriend then turns to the waiter and says "Don't worry, because" (pause) and then slowly says "I saw you in my dreams too" with perfect bemused sarcasm.

It was hillarious. And it had nothing to do with:

1) The waiter and the girl having any sexual contact
2) The boyfriend having any bisexual tendencies

They boyfriend did, however, have a great sense of humor.


Example 2:

One of my female friends sends me a text message (of several texts that went back and forth) that said: "When you suck the nipples they ooze nutella, you are drawn between the hairy part, and the dairy part".

What do you think the relationship between me and the girl who sent this message is? If you were my girlfriend, would you have found this message to imply I'm cheating?

Answer: She is one of my best friends. Although she is gorgeous and very popular, and she's stayed at my apartment many times and slept next to me, she is *only* my friend, and while I love her loads, I think of her more like a little sister, and not someone who I have ever even kissed, or have plans to kiss. I do appreciate the way she makes me laugh however.


The moral of the story: Unless you are privvy to all the dynamics of an interaction between two people it's easy to come to the wrong conclusion, especially if you are stressed out or insecure to begin with..

If you want to become wiser in this regard, read everything you can by Robert Anton Wilson, starting with Prometheus Rising.

Ishindar, in the context of this thread, it's your comments that are unhelpful, leading the OP to think I'm offending her, when I'm telling her exactly what she needs to hear.

OP wrote:

I feel so small, so insignificant. I am beginning to hate him and his secret f*cking texts and his f*cking girlfriends. Am so angry.

When all the OP has to go on is witnessing some flirty behaviour and some flirty text messages, the conclusion she has come to, IMO, is completely wrong.

The OP should be relieved that I think her thought process is bull****, and her subsequent behaviour offensive, because if she accepts that I'm right, she gets to realise her problem isn't real, and her relationship has a better chance.

I'm extra confident about this because I am one of those guys who is very flirty. Flirting IS NOT Cheating. Flirting DOES NOT imply cheating.

In this case, the boyfriend even said he suggested his GF and this other girl meet.

http://www.flirtcoach.com/articles/whatisflirting.htm

Ishindar wrote:

this is what i find offensive as it is not advise it is abuse....
...
you make a lot of assumptions and judgements. your perspective is very limited indeed. your "advise" is unwanted here as detailed by the OP.

Ishindar:

1) It's not your place to deem what is appropriate in this forum - if you have a problem with what I say, complain to a moderator.

2) You have not given the OP any good advice whatsoever. If you actually care, why are you writing things like "everyone has a different perspective of what a relationship should be like and there is no right or wrong" when your very statement can be used to justify real abuse?

3) I've gone to effort to craft responses for the OP to get her to re-evaluate her behaviour, see through her own bull****, and deal with her paranoia and anger.

Your responses in this, Ishindar, have not been helpful.

If you are somehow qualified to judge the quality of my advice, please explain how. Do you actually have any qualifications in counselling / psychology / personal development / coaching?

OP wrote:

I cant take it anymore. I do love him, but my feelings have definately changed towards him. I dont trust him. I was with him last night and I could hardly look at him. That is not a good sign. When I was with him, all I could think about was getting the hell out of there.

I know I cannot undo what I did, what I read etc. There is no point in making him miserable also. I have to make a decision. The only thing stopping me is that its Christmas on Monday.'

OP - there is a saying that goes If you want to make a good decision, first make sure you are in a really good state of mind.

You've made yourself paranoid - not him - based upon what you've imagined.
I suggest you avoid acting until you've at least chilled out a bit, and in the meantime, you can rekindle your positivity using the same process in reverse

http://www.paulmckenna.com/uploaded/flash/relationships_more_in_love.swf

Talliesin

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

I think some of the other posters dont know what it feels like, thats why there are names and things flying all over the place.

I think some posters know what it feels like to have somebody act jealously when they'd done nothing wrong, and that's why they're getting emotive in their phrasings.

LegacyUser

Ok basically, for two people to get on together, they need to have the same values/beliefs.

I dont have the same opinions as him when it comes to this matter. I am trying to understand him and listening to all ye, but I cant.

I am angry and frustrated at the moment, and I cant see any other options. I really cant. My head hurts from thinking about it. I think if I am to sort myself out, I need to do it on my own. There is no quick fix.

I know I am pushing him away. He's said so.

This is about the only thing that we argue about. I am sick of arguing with him about it. I have no urge or need to try and sort this out any more. I thought he might help me out a little, but he hasnt.

He is flirty by nature. We have had talks about this before. He said he would try and be a bit more considerate of my feelings, and then all this happens.

I have no problem with a bit of flirting, but his flirting goes OTT. I am waiting there just seeing what he'll do next to the girl. I cant handle it anymore.

Beruthiel

Ishindar wrote:

you make a lot of assumptions and judgements. your perspective is very limited indeed. your "advise" is unwanted here as detailed by the OP.

Last I heard, I was one of the PI Mods, so kindly leave the moderating to us thanks.

Whither the OP of a thread gets the advice they wish for means nothing in this forum.
If people post on here thinking that we will all agree with them, then they have come to the wrong place.
People give their opinions based on their own experience, experience being the only perspective any of use can fall back on. It is up to the OP to decide what to take on board.
I have seen people come on here and have 10 people tell them X when they wanted to hear Y.
People can live in denial, they are happier there. That's their decision.

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

We have had talks about this before. He said he would try and be a bit more considerate of my feelings, and then all this happens.

Because he cannot change who he is. And if you cannot accept who he is then he is not the man for you.
It's that simple.

Talliesin

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

He is flirty by nature. We have had talks about this before. He said he would try and be a bit more considerate of my feelings, and then all this happens.

Wait. All what happens?

You spied on him and found him to have the nature you knew him to have but asked him to hide from you.

Sorry, I'm with you on saying that you don't have to be okay with him being flirty, just like he doesn't have to be okay with your attitude yet.

But you say now that you've had talks about this before and he said he'd be more considerate of your feelings. That makes you a liar earlier when you were asking what people should make of someone texting "I dont think your girlfriend wouldnt be too happy if you visited the house".

You've asked him to be considerate of your feelings so when someone engages in normal flirting with him he says "look, my girlfriend isn't cool with flirting, it'll upset her if she sees you flirting with me" and not only does he hence save you from being upset, but show does she.

You then come here and in the hope of getting some validation leave out that you'd discussed things with him before so that someone else with the same issues as you might go "ZOMG! The only explanation is they are having mad jack-rabbit sex twice a day!".

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

I have no problem with a bit of flirting, but his flirting goes OTT.

What's OTT? Does he have a clear idea of what's OTT to you? For that matter do you have a clear idea of what's OTT to you? Otherwise the poor bastard hasn't a hope of accomodating your issues.

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

I am waiting there just seeing what he'll do next to the girl.

By the sounds of it, he'll probably send her a text.

If you split up over this then he might well do more, after all there'll be no reason why he shouldn't, but then he might not, as maybe he'd just be flirting with her and no more even if he was single.

A lot of this smacks of you trying to get people to say that you're the normal one and he's the aberration.

Sorry, that isn't going to happen. There are people here too smart to label either of you normal, and the people who aren't that smart are going to look at the fact that among the people in the group boards deals with (mainly Irish, mainly young, mainly relatively expressive) and PI deals with (tending not to have as many people shy of expressing emotional and sexual matters, or else they wouldn't like this forum) he's closer to the norm than you are and hence say that he's the "normal" one.

You are unusual. This is also true of everyone else.

Either you can let him continue the emotional strain of hiding his tendency to flirt on occasion from you and not undermine the sacrifice he's made for you by spying on him, or you can try to be more like him (not likely to work, but you can try) or you can find someone who has a closer attitude to flirting to you.

Personally I recommend trying to find people with a relatively similar view on relationships and sexuality to yourself, or at least with a big overlap. It does tend to work a lot better.

moto2006

I agree that people have to have similar values/beliefs/boundries but people also change and grow -sometimes bad, sometimes good. I'm a bit biased in that I'm not flirty with other men once I am attached but I do think that some people just are and life would be v boring if we were all the same. To be fair to your boyfriend he really does seem to be trying and you seem to understand that its a nature thing rather then him being up to anything so both of you seem prepared to work on it.

I know it feels horrible, and you want it all resolved on way or another (even if the outcome is bad at least your head will have peace sort of thing) but if possible it might be better to take your time, maybe give it a couple of weeks, try to get a few days on your own and NOT think about it, then come back to it with a fresh head.

You're right, if you're going to torture yourself into the future about his behaviour right or wrong its not a great way to be & I do think people might change a little bit (learn to control short tempers etc) but not their whole nature and it would not be fair on either of you to expect that but if you rush a decision you may regret it down the line.

Personally, the biggest flirt I know is extremely happy with his girlfriend, would run a mile if anyone took him up on it and they're probably one of the most "together" couples I know so...

Take care of yourself

Marksie

OP we have only dealt with your response and ideas on this matter.

There is another salient point, in one post you stated that he had an ex who looked through his messages.

Now he has another who does.

What is going through his mind? is he not bothering? or is he saying "Oh No do i want this again?"

The fact that you are getting ratty together bringing this up is not a good sign.
It is entirely possible that by the time (or even if) you do get your head around it, then he could very well be gone.

Actually stating that you hate someone beacuse of what is rattling around in your head is not a good sign either, nor is the extreme reaction to some posters. It may be time to examine the self and see if you can overcome the trust issues for the next realtionship

LegacyUser

A few things:

1. I didnt know his ex used to do that. Apparently she would do it on a regular basis. Makes me wonder why. He was with her for 6 years.

2. I never had trust issues with any previous partners. Not like this. I dont know where this issue/insecurity has come from.

3. It is horrible to know/realise that what I did could drive him away.

4. I dont know what to say to him anymore. I wish it had never happened now. I regret this alot. Why did I do it? I dont know why. We had a rocky start at the beginning of the relationship. There were ex's involved (both). Maybe it didnt start out right. Maybe ive been carrying this around with me since then. I still feel unsure that he wants to be with "me". Maybe checking his phone has been bourne out of this.

5. He does deserve someone who will treat him right. Right now I feel awful and I dont know what to do. Ill still feel the same next week, next month, next year. Maybe we are just not right for each other. He keeps alot of things in. I dont understand why he couldnt tell me about these people. It adds to the "secrecy" conspiracy that I have going on in my head.

Why didnt he tell me? His answer was that he doesnt have to tell me everything. And thats fine, but at least for the love of god let me know whats going on. I dont believe him when he says that one of the girls invited both of "us" to her house. From what I read, she invited him. No mention of me at all.

When he told me again about the other girl wanting to meet him, but that he said no that he would prefer to meet her with me, I dont believe him either. He never mentioned either of these people before and no mention of any dinners or meeting up with these people before I read the messages.

Now, he told me that we were supposed to be going tomorrow night to that girls house for dinner and he is telling me now that he doesnt think that we will make it because he is working late!!! it stinks of cover-up. I just do not trust him. He has done nothing to gain my trust.

I am just floating along here waiting will after Christmas. I cant keep going like this. I know ye think its all my fault but there are 2 people in this relationship.

Talliesin

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

Apparently she would do it on a regular basis. Makes me wonder why.

Oh sweet gods!

Are you actually listening to what you are saying?

You've just said something that indicates both a reason why he would be particularly upset at what he did and a reason why he might be somewhat more inclined towards being a tad secretive than he might otherwise.

Instead you start taking his paranoid, invasive ex's side!

Sometimes there is smoke without fire. Sometimes what you've called smoke isn't even smoke. Wait until you see some actual bloody smoke before looking for the fire.

And six years is nothing. Some people have been with partners for longer, not doing anything extra-marital and not even flirting at all though they are naturally inclined to do so, and still had those partners being paranoid.

The matter of the flirting levels you're comfortable with is one thing. The two of you can possibly adjust to that one way or another.

The fact that you are mistrusting him when there is zero evidence that he is doing anything is another matter. You cannot trust someone who has given you no reason to distrust him. Go to a relationship counsellor.

skywalker

Angry/Annoyed wrote:

Now, he told me that we were supposed to be going tomorrow night to that girls house for dinner and he is telling me now that he doesnt think that we will make it because he is working late!!! it stinks of cover-up. I just do not trust him. He has done nothing to gain my trust.

That does sound fairly dodgy alright. Did you ask him why he'd agreed you were both going to dinner at someones house and is only telling you about it the day before when "he cant make it". Does he often work late?

Also you could call his bluff (if thats what it is) and tell him you'd be delighted to go alone and meet his "friend"

moto2006

1. I didnt know his ex used to do that. Apparently she would do it on a regular basis. Makes me wonder why. He was with her for 6 years.
Same reason you did - but still not a good thing to do or be doing. Also their relationship has ended so probably not the best role model!

2. I never had trust issues with any previous partners. Not like this. I dont know where this issue/insecurity has come from.
You probably need to figure that bit out for your own sake. Maybe it is something he is doing, or maybe it's that the relationship didnt get off to the best start & that is bringing out more insecurities. Based on what you've posted up to now he does seem to be fairly blameless but of course there may be more to it and even if its the relationship start thats to blame you can't change that either.

3. It is horrible to know/realise that what I did could drive him away.

Yup, but it's done. Grovel time! and hopefully it won't.

4. I dont know what to say to him anymore. I wish it had never happened now. I regret this alot. Why did I do it? I dont know why. We had a rocky start at the beginning of the relationship. There were ex's involved (both). Maybe it didnt start out right. Maybe ive been carrying this around with me since then. I still feel unsure that he wants to be with "me". Maybe checking his phone has been bourne out of this.

Well then, maybe thats your answer. It's a shame it has come out like this but at least you have a better idea of whats at the root of the insecurity/jealously

5. He does deserve someone who will treat him right. Right now I feel awful and I dont know what to do. Ill still feel the same next week, next month, next year. Maybe we are just not right for each other. He keeps alot of things in. I dont understand why he couldnt tell me about these people. It adds to the "secrecy" conspiracy that I have going on in my head.
I know its hard, but you wont feel like this next month. Whether you're together or not, you'll feel better in time. Also I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ass but if it is a conspiracy he is a bit incompetent - he'll be sacked from the school for spies for leaving his mobile behind!

Why didnt he tell me? His answer was that he doesnt have to tell me everything. And thats fine, but at least for the love of god let me know whats going on. I dont believe him when he says that one of the girls invited both of "us" to her house. From what I read, she invited him. No mention of me at all.

To be fair, I would only invite my friends (male and female) to something, and the implicit understanding would be partners are welcome especially in a text (not the quickest thumbs in the west and all that)

When he told me again about the other girl wanting to meet him, but that he said no that he would prefer to meet her with me, I dont believe him either. He never mentioned either of these people before and no mention of any dinners or meeting up with these people before I read the messages.

Now, he told me that we were supposed to be going tomorrow night to that girls house for dinner and he is telling me now that he doesnt think that we will make it because he is working late!!! it stinks of cover-up. I just do not trust him. He has done nothing to gain my trust.

It is a bit odd, but if you are having problems then maybe he doesn't want to put either of you under more pressure by going? Afraid that you'll have a row there ? Maybe it was going to be a suprise? I dont know and neither do you and you could torture yourself thinking of all the possible permunatations and combinations
Also he hasn't really done anything other then arouse your suspicion to lose your trust either!

I am just floating along here waiting will after Christmas. I cant keep going like this. I know ye think its all my fault but there are 2 people in this relationship

I'm not saying this is the case here and it may have no bearing on your situation at all but just to let you know. I went out with someone for about a year & they wrecked my head. He was extremely possessive and jealous, was convinced I was about to run off with any guy I said hi to. Long story short, I came to act in the same way with him and was equally crazy and paranoid. Obviously enough the relationship ended (messily but not a day too soon!)

Anyway, I was fine while dating casually but when I met someone I really liked and we got into a seriously relationship I fell back into the old habits of previously. I found I had to really think about what it was that made me feel like that - was it really that I thought he'd run off with them? was it that I was annoyed it paid attention to anyone but me? the time he spent talking to them that could have been with me? Now, my SO is not a flirty person at all but he is a nice guy with a lot of "girl" friends BUT luckily enough for me he put up with my crap until I got it sorted.

Anyways, for me it was more that we had a long distance relationship for the first 8-10 months we were together and I wanted to spend every second of the weekends together & I couldn't see that was the only time he had to see his friends too! Once I figured what was really bugging me it was a lot easier to deal with and also (to give added incentive) he was worth the effort and I could see how upsetting it was for him (having been on the receiving end)

Hope that helps a wee bit