Nerf Locks and Huntards now!

WTF_L2P_n00b

Mage speaking here. I am PvE specc'd 10/38/3 btw!

Huntards need a nerf, silencing shot is imba. Unless I surprise a Hunter I have no chance. Even if I get into the deadzone I don't have enough instacasts to dps him down, perhapd if I were PvP spec I would have more of a chance, but silencing shot> concussive shot is a big problem.

Locks omg do locks need a nerf, pass the nerf bat......

That Felguard is a joke, if you could root it maybe you'd have a chance but as they resist nearly 4/5 nova's there's no hope. Only choice is to mana shield and ignore him while trying to dps the lock.....while being dotted etc etc.

But my biggest whine has to be the dot's even if I kill the bloody lock the dots will get me in the end, FFS can't the dots die with the lock?

Is there a dispel magic pot? or similar?

rainbow kirby

Yes, being PvP-specced/geared helps - the game is being balanced around lv70 now, so damage is scaling too well (as in, the amount of damage that DPS classes is doing is rather imbalanced) in relation to lv60 stamina levels on gear. And mages have relatively low HP in general. Also you're fire-specced which knocks out some of the nice survivability talents that frost mages have.

WTF_L2P_n00b

I wear my PvP gear for PvP'ing so have about 4300HP and +500 spell dmg, still doesnt matter a jot against them locks and their dots

If a hunter gets you with silencing shot before you spot him you have had it (unless you have IB not on cooldown (I don't even have it specced)).

Mana Shielding against a Felguard and trying to CS / dps down a lock is nigh on impossible whatever the spec I would guess.

Bush sniping ftw! or Polymorphing lone mounted Horde in AV ftw!*

*note do not polymorph hunters or locks xD

Ivan

Yes, mages vs. warlocks is a very hard fight. Mages vs. hunters is significantly easier, but still pretty hard.

But the game is designed around Rock, Paper, Scissors, or at least thats what we are constantly reminded.

Oh and as I said to a guildmate of mine earlier today, Fire atm is the unfortunate bastard child of Arcane and Frost.

You dont have the survivability of frost and you dont have the burst of arcane, heck you dont even have the claim of highest PvE dps build, with ignite nerfs/bugs.

However, its quit nice over here in the 40/11/0 side of the fence, come join us on the dark side! Murhahaha.

Oh and 40/0/21 will rock at 70 too
But I still agree, warlocks are stupidly powerful atm and I really cant understand the reasoning behind it, but what can you do... aside from spec 40/11/0 and hope that when a warlock targets you, you have AP+POM+ trinket up and can 1-2 shot them.

DRakE

WTF_L2P_n00b wrote:

Is there a dispel magic pot? or similar?

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4568 - Ridiculously expensive and pretty silly to buy seeing as Elemental Earth is usually quite expensive at AH Thats the pot you want to get tho.. it's an anti-warlock pot

Ivan

Ah yes, I knew there was a pot I just couldnt remember the name

Elemental earth is reasonably easy to grind, if you kill the earth elementals in the badlands or arathi highlands. Keep in mind though that both bot farmers and regular players farm these mobs endlessly

lazygit

well as a lock i have to say its about time.. we spent the first 8 months of WOW as a free dkp kill for anyone around...

but i have to admit, we do stupid damage now.. my shadow bolt hits for 1000+ non crit and im not destruction specced!!

Binomate

The new dot warlocks have is retarded. 1k damage and if you dispel it you get the dispeler gets the damage instantly. So if you accidentally dispel it near the end you get almost double the damage it does. The felgaurd is just stupid. The only way warlocks can be beaten now is with two or more people. They're the most over powered class in the game.

sunzz

moff to roll a lock

cance

Binomate wrote:

The new dot warlocks have is retarded. 1k damage and if you dispel it you get the dispeler gets the damage instantly. So if you accidentally dispel it near the end you get almost double the damage it does. The felgaurd is just stupid. The only way warlocks can be beaten now is with two or more people. They're the most over powered class in the game.

looking in, looking out. Its not actually that easy.

/rant

Warlocks have just as much trouble with other classes. I F*cking hate rogues, they appear out of nowhere, crit me for 1000-2000+ they just stun me and silence me over and over again then corpse camp me while being stealthed so i cant even see them sitting there, and there are so bloody many of them!

depending on a warrriors stance, he can be immune to fear effects and just pounds the snot out of me while i try to cast on him.

our class is dependant on pet skills that we dont always have, if im fighting a rogue and i have my felhunter summoned i may aswell just stand there and take the pounding he is giving me.

Also if my felguard is summoned and a rogue starts pounding my back i cant intercept charge as hes too close to my pet. my succubus is a bit of a jack of all trades in the sense that seduce is awesome. but i have seen rogues just kick the sh*te out of her while im casting on them, kill her then turn around and just smile at me as they activate their anti fear trinket....

deathcoil,
fear, immune...
"oh sh*t"
warlock has died

the voidwalker is nothing in pvp other than a sacraficed bubble at the price of a soul shard. and the imp? lol nothing but a little annoying talking lighter with a stamina buff.

and soulshards? ffs mages hit for insane damage and have wicked instant casts, we have to farm little shards from honor bearing victims, that service our shadow burn, pet summons, summons, health stones, soulfires etc, thats a full wasted bag slot at the best of the time. and believe me when i say it takes restraint not to burn through them like popcorn.

i currently use about 14-16 a day of my 24 slot soul bag. 24+ if i go to an instance.

when you load in:

create healthstone
create soulstone
summon pet
create firestone (i equip it before searing pain/soulfire)
create spellstone (i equip it in pvp)

thats 5 stones before i have left IF.

/end rant

plus all warlocks know its only a matter of time before the 12yo's whining n3rf warl0cks and n3rf fear will have an affect and we will go back to being an easy honor kill.

WTF_L2P_n00b

A Felguard pet that you can't root and hits for 300dps is a joke, esp when you give it Intercept.

4300HP + mana Shield means about 20secs I have of getting battered by the pet to down the Lock, that's excluding dots, and dmg from the lock. In the rare circumstances when I win, I usually have low HP and dots and die before I go ooc and can eat.

cance

now i wont deny mages do have the smelly end of the stick if we have felguard or felhunter summoned, but your water elemental does exactly what ours does, pounds us and increases our cast time.

[CrimsonGhost]

Yeah I play a lock and if I spec right I will grief my opponents quite nicely with the felguard. BUT this requires me to spec all the way into the demonology tree. And while felguard might be tough at 60, when you hit 70 he'll hardly be scratching you. This is what you have to think of. The other warlock pets are really very very rubbish for me now. I'm geared up with stuff from tier 2 -> Naxx drops. When I first hit 60 the mobs I were fighting weren't a problem with my pets. Now anything just owns them. This is mitigated somewhat with the felguard, but not completely.

The other spec which seems to be getting nerf calls is the heavy affliction spec. But in fairness, this is more of a raid spec than PVP spec. Making locks much more dmg efficient in 40 man raids, something which we were sevely lacking in beforehand.

Anyway, wait till we're all 70, if locks are still owning up other classes easily then I'm sure blizzard will nerf us, or buff the classes which need it most.

anonymous_joe

Rogues don't have it easy against locks... If we make one mistake, we die due to all those poxy dots.

The concentration required to kill a lock is bordering on ridiculous, and if someone else so much as looks at a rogue while they're stunlocking something the game is up...

In groups locks just dot everything they can and run away... It's pretty sick.

Matt Simis

WTF_L2P_n00b wrote:

A Felguard pet that you can't root and hits for 300dps is a joke, esp when you give it Intercept.

4300HP + mana Shield means about 20secs I have of getting battered by the pet to down the Lock, that's excluding dots, and dmg from the lock. In the rare circumstances when I win, I usually have low HP and dots and die before I go ooc and can eat.

Dont lie. The Felguard can be Sapped or Rooted, you mean you cant Frost Nova him as he has a 50% chance to resist AOEs. Thats too bad, but Ive seen him get stuck in Ice from Frost Nova and Blizzard plenty of times.

DOTs need to do dmg after a lock is dead, as the point is they do dmg over time. COA takes 24sec to run its course, think of the amount of dmg a mage could do in 24secs. The spell that damages the dispeller (Unstable Affliction) is a 41pt talent, so no Felguard there.

As pointed out, Warlocks are quite situational, its not like they can do this well against all classes all the time, its a Pet tradeoff. Mages and rogues are generally targeted by Warlocks as they amount of threat and dmg output they represent is huge to a lock and his chums.



Matt

Ivan

cance wrote:

now i wont deny mages do have the smelly end of the stick if we have felguard or felhunter summoned, but your water elemental does exactly what ours does, pounds us and increases our cast time.

Except mages dont have a shiny 1.5 second spell that completely negates an entire 41 point talent... now do we?

Warlocks are overpowered, simple as. Yes, you have some "difficult" match ups, in a decently geared fury/arms warrior. Yes a subtlety rogue with Cloak of shadows (soon to be a base ability folks) is a nightmare, but subtlety/CoS rogues are a very tough match up for mages too. In fact, we dont even have a chance without the right spec.

Warlocks were given deathcoil as a means to get ranged on melee classes, who would just beat their faces. Now, however, they are given a nigh unrootable intercepting, high dps behemoth, all the while they are abusing deathcoil on non-melee classes.

And dont even get me started on fear. Please, compare fear to sap or polymorph, heck even roots which can break itself, quite quickly still allows the target to do something...

Ok, there are alot more mechanics for breaking fear but that is only because it is oh so much more powerful. But anyways, I feel like I'm flogging a dead horse here.

But I find it funny how a friend of mine who has a r14 druid, has a naxx raiding mage and who recently just started leveling up his warlock... who all the while stated how overpowered they are, now laughs evilly and cackles about how they are "balanced".

I mean, seduce>nuke... wtflol?

P.s. Matt... demons cant be sapped, humanoid only. Felguards have 60 spell resistance as part of the demonology tree. Then there is the tier 1 and tier 2 set bonuses. Furthermore, if you should manage to break through the annoying felguards hp and resistances and somehow kill him. The warlock can then "waste" :rolleyes: another soul shard to summon a second one in 0.5 seconds...

BKtje

Huntards need a nerf, silencing shot is imba. Unless I surprise a Hunter I have no chance.

Hunters need to be fixed. I got the jump on a hunter with my epicly geared warrior. I pounded him down to about 50% hp before he managed to get out of range due to in combat insta cast trap. He then ran off a way and kited me. I intercepted when i could and got him to 25% before being trapped again. All the while his pet is annoying me so i cant run away when he tries to kite. Whatever happened to the 2 second actication time for traps? Forget to put that in there blizz?
Yet the bugged macestun was hotfixed within a week. Its so unbelievably obvious that Blizz hate warriors.

On topic, if a lock doesnt have succubus out ill kill em nps but ill generally die to his dots afterwards. Mages? i cant even kill a green geared mage on half mana most of the time. Even if i get the drop on them.They pop their shield and i cant build aggro. Same with priests. Im not PvP specced its true, but thats ridiculous.

Dubhthamlacht

I've both a lock and hunter. The warlock has always been soullink (i leveled it that way).

The only class that i had trouble against was an affliction warlock as they could banish my pet and then i was in a world of ****.Soul Link locks are very dependent on their pet. Being caught with the wrong pet is no big deal. Death coil and insta summon pet you need. I believe warlock pets will be useful at 70 due to proper scaling now.

In group pvp i've found soul link locks okay but not as powerful as say Affliction locks are stronger in group pvp or even my hunter. you don't get caught in too many one v one encounters in BGs to make use of the extreme survivability that a SL warlock has.

The problem with a hunter is that they have a LOT of instant casts and short cooldowns which amounts to some crazy damage. Unloading 7k damage in 5 seconds while a pet nibbles at your target is something i've done done often since the patch (I admit my hunter has decent gear Naxx/AQ40 few bits of BWL stuff). And Silence Shot causes untold panic with casters.

WTF_L2P_n00b

The only way I can get huntards atm is to surprise them with a nuke, Blink into the deadzone and unload nova, fireblast, scorch, coc etc and hope I have enough instants + a few scorchs to dps them down.

If I miss the deadzone then I have lost as they Silencing Shot, Concussive Shot, gain range and thats it.

If they surprise me I am usually dead before I can do anything.

If we spot each other at the same time I am usually also screwed Silencing Shot from Range - Concussion Shot - Arcane Shot or whatever way they want to do it.

It's tough out there as a mage atm......

......I tend to ignore the locks and the huntards and find myself a nice Warrior to abuse instead ^^

anonymous_joe

I usually wander around a BG and look for drinking mages... About all a rogue can take down atm...

That and non-soul link locks, they die hilariously easily if you're attacking from stealth.

In BG 8 the only real problems I'd have would be massive gear imbalance tbh... Try pounding on a tier 3 warrior as a rogue in blues, it's a tad annoying.

Splinter

ahh cmon be far...drinking mages aint that easy.. :P with the Shadow priest i get hammered cause im a target anyway...usually take down druids/pallies and warriors...after that im toast...

c0rk3r

Cry more noob

WTF_L2P_n00b

c0rk3r wrote:

Cry more noob

I love it when the 12 yo Paladins come out to play

c0rk3r

heh

Come on you start a whine/thread with a name like "what the fcuk learn to play noob" and you expect people to take you serious? I'd say irony but im sure your aware of what you did. Ive got a level 60 paladin, Mage and hunter.

The problem with wow pvp is everyone demands that their class dominates Pvp(solo, wow pvp isnt a multiplayer game) but thats just not the case. Warriors were dazzled with The Pat movie. They try replicate it but fail miserably. Mages watch Mickyknox or the catalogue of others who arcane power, presence of mind pyroblast oneshoting everything insight. "hey why cant i do that in pvp". yadda yadda for other classes. People demand their class to be the best and whine if its not.

Yeah its true Hunters got a Massive damage addition. Arcane shot being the buff up. Potential 1.3k shot, instant on 4-5second cooldown? cant remember. Add Aimed shot to the mix, maybe 2.7k on priest mages. Multi-shot 1.3k. Silenced shot, 700crit and silence for 3seconds or so. Autoshot crit 1.5k. Concussion shot. Mages are dead in an Instant, same goes for priests. I love silence shot. The moment you hit a mage he becomes paralysed, stupefied not know wether to fight or run. By the time they decide they are dead. fcuk yeah.

I can kill warlocks easily enough with the hunter. Usually have to sit down and eat to counter all the dots afterwards.

The best thing i can suggest is join a premade and ask for heals.Play as a team. The way the game was designed. Stop looking for massive crits and instant deaths. Otherwise just learn how to play your class.

Ivan

That being the point though. You require a premade in order to get reliable heals. Hence, while the game is balanced around team work and group pvp that just isnt the case.

The majority of encounters in AV and even AB is 1vs. 2, 1vs. 1 or variations on that theme. Warlocks wtfpwn in almost all situations.

Yes, mages destroy warriors reliably, but the warrior has some chance. Yes, if the mage plays well the warrior is left with no out to survive but if... just if.

A mage versus a warlock, the warlock cannot do anything wrong. He just dots and spam fears. Sure, he might have the wrong pet out and the mage might be frost spec'd but thats a helluva way to balance a pvp encounter.

As for hunters, hah, if the mage sees the hunter coming he has a chance. If he doesnt, he is almost definitely dead before he can even say Trinket-Arcane Power-Prescence of Mind-Pyroblast.

Mages arent whining because we want to pwn everything, as far as I am concerned I am one of the most formidable classes in pvp, right up there with rogues.

But there is something inherently wrong with warlocks and a bit of a chance versus hunters would be nice too.

As a druid, I regularly stomp warriors and rogues, even mages too. Hunters are usually ok, so long as I get into bear form before the barrage starts but again... yep, you guessed it... warlock pwnage.

Honestly, its an age old argument that I really dont expect a 12 yo paladin to comprehend

WTF_L2P_n00b

It's not meant to be a whine thread, more a discussion on how to balance the PvP a bit better from a mage viewpoint......

I don't mind being pwnd at all, what I do mind is the fact that I have no chance against locks, and very little unless I get the jump on a huntard.

The Felguard is highly amusing, but the situation is totally imba.........getting intercept stunned, hit for 300dps by a pet you can't root, while all the while getting dotted and nuked by a lock is a ludicrous situation.

Cuddlesworth

Bit more balanced from a mage point of view? Christ, can you imagine how warriors feel? I am just getting into pvp at lvl37 with a Shadow priest, I find it hard to take down a mage, warlock or hunter but not impossible. But any warrior who comes even close gets destroyed in seconds. They need a serious buff, like a trinket fear/sap/frost remover with a 20 second cooldown. Chirst watch the rankings and damage done, you see mages/rouges and locks come out on top nearly all the time.

That being said my character is a bit of a Twink, with around 150+ spell damage.

WTF_L2P_n00b

The reason mages are always near the top of the BG Chart is because:

1. AOE gives large amounts of DMG done
2. We have fireblast so we more often then not get the KB

not because we are imba.

I do feel for warriors, I am Tier 2 and even a Tier 3 Warrior with a legendary weapon has very little chance, unless they get a few big crits. I particularly lol when I CS their Intercept and they kinda stand there bemused xD

That said a Warrior can beat a mage, and most definately one that is poor at PvP. A lock however can be as crap at PvP as you like and still will always beat a mage in 1v1 if they have a Felguard. Hunters actually have to have some skill to win all the time, but still they can.

anonymous_joe

Hunters are a lot cockier now, making things actually slightly easier for a rogue. Cocky hunters aren't too hard to stunlock.

BKtje

Warrior damage is on the most part fine in pvp, what is a pain is that for a class that must do everything in melee range we have only 1 way to close the gap(which is bugged when slowed) and no ability to remove snares.

So we gotta wait for intercept and when we use it we are either too far away to hamstring (cos of bug, or no rage left due to priest/mage shield), get insta trapped again, get chilled when we hit and mage blinks away, get seduced, get sheeped, get rooted, get deathcoiled or get frostshocked/earthbound with no way of closing the gap again until our one cooldown is ready by which time we are probably dead since plate does nothing vs spell damage or we just start again.In 1v1's vs most classes its just one giant kite against a warrior.

I'm not saying that those snares/stuns shouldn't work agains us. Of course they should but it would be nice if we had more than 1 way to close the gap...hell, even a non bugged one would be a start!

rainbow kirby

WTF_L2P_n00b wrote:

I love it when the 12 yo Paladins come out to play

You say paladin like it's a bad thing