Green Tide?

is_that_so

TBH The Greens suffer from other difficulties.

The Green agenda was always likely to drift into the mainstream once we understood why it was actually important. As a result other parties were always likely to queue up for their Green credentials.

Meanwhile the Greens in Ireland do seem better suited , at present, to urban areas. The problem I see for the Greens is that we know that they are green and we think that is good but what else would they do?
What other policies do they have that are a) sensible and b) would actually make a difference c) and we might vote for?

With respect to the smoky coal ban who did or did not come up with is almost like arguing Civil War politics. 1989/1990 is very long time ago. It was done, we all knew it needed to be done and hell if you're a Minister you take the credit. That's politics.

Múinteoir

is_that_so wrote:

TBH The Greens suffer from other difficulties.

The Green agenda was always likely to drift into the mainstream once we understood why it was actually important. As a result other parties were always likely to queue up for their Green credentials.

Meanwhile the Greens in Ireland do seem better suited , at present, to urban areas. The problem I see for the Greens is that we know that they are green and we think that is good but what else would they do?
What other policies do they have that are a) sensible and b) would actually make a difference c) and we might vote for?

With respect to the smoky coal ban who did or did not come up with is almost like arguing Civil War politics. 1989/1990 is very long time ago. It was done, we all knew it needed to be done and hell if you're a Minister you take the credit. That's politics.

This is a common argument and it has a certain merit, but the big problem with it is that it doesn't acknowledge that the larger parties have been paying lip-service to Green issues for well over a decade now, not just in the last year or two. Certainly as the problems of peak oil and global warming become clearly obvious, they have become somewhat more vocal recently, but it's still the same wishy washy smoke and mirrors. Bertie tries to call himself Green and the government publishes a white paper on energy, yet it's still clear we're failing miserably to fulfill Kyoto and to protect our fossil fuel dependent economy from rampant prices increases in the near future.

In fact I would trace the first time the bigger parties seriously clearly copped onto the Green agenda was in 1994 when the Greens stunned everyone to take two MEP seats. After that all the major parties have had the standard one or two sentences to the environment in their manifestos, but it hasn't stalled the growth of the Greens, has it. It's not that new an approach to stave off their support. So although its perfectly plausible that bigger parties will attempt to steal the greens' clothes(and they certainly do try), the fact is that their attempts to do so for over a decade have failed badly.

is_that_so

I don't think there is any question that the Green tide is being forced upon us by external events but good Socialist/Green that he is Bertie has seen the light and other parties will merely follow suit.

Nor indeed is there much dispute about the dubious government attitude but the times are a changing and on a practical level there is the spectre of massive fines looming in a few years time if we don't start addressing the emissions problems in particular.

My assertion about their appeal in the next election stands. There needs to be more to them than we're Green and we're not the government.

Múinteoir

is_that_so wrote:

My assertion about their appeal in the next election stands. There needs to be more to them than we're Green and we're not the government.

Oh I can agree with that certainly. I'm just doubtful of the ability of the other parties to steal their clothes politically, with a bit of cut and paste.

Húrin

Deleted User wrote:

They seem to be electable mainly in more affluent urban areas who like a good photo shoot and can afford to think green.

Voting, thinking or acting green is usually cheaper than the norm. The affluent urbanites are just the only ones who have been open-minded enough to embrace it en masse. Not that rural people don't, but they're not concentrated enough to have as much political effect. The poorer urban classes tend to be too short-sighted or lazy to change their lifestyles en masse. (sorry, I know that most people are too politically correct to say this but we all know it's true)

marie_85

is_that_so wrote:

My assertion about their appeal in the next election stands. There needs to be more to them than we're Green and we're not the government.

There is more to them. In doubt? Check out www.greenparty.ie and have a look at their policies.

constitutionus

you know the one thing I'll give the greens is they have to courage to speak with conviction on their intentions at the next election. unlike labour and their " we WONT go into coalition with FF!!!!, well maybe but we'd have to sack the guy running the party now and install brendan howlin. but we'd really prefer to go into gov with FGbut if the numbers add up we'll be in the sack with FF quicker than you can say "stab in the back""

when you compare this with the greens " we will deal with FF if we have to but its on our terms and we wanna make damn sure certain ministers don't get a ministry before we do go in with em" your left with what can only be called a breath of fresh air in Irish politics.

i reckon theyre onto a winner with this attitude, makes em look like they re gonna get the concentration on their issues that the PDs did making em the "meat in the sandwich" so to speak.

the greens arent the party of choice for me, but they'll get my vote before labour and FG and they certainly look the stronger party in the dail in terms of forthrightness on issues

Sonderval

After the green's made an ass of themselves on the Late Late recently, when they were debating the possibility of nuclear energy in Ireland, I have most of my faith in their competency. I'm sure the French physicist they had on the show was scratching his head...

Múinteoir

Sonderval wrote:

After the green's made an ass of themselves on the Late Late recently, when they were debating the possibility of nuclear energy in Ireland, I have most of my faith in their competency. I'm sure the French physicist they had on the show was scratching his head...

I missed that. Is it up on RTÉ website?

ryanoid

Sonderval wrote:

After the green's made an ass of themselves on the Late Late recently, when they were debating the possibility of nuclear energy in Ireland, I have most of my faith in their competency. I'm sure the French physicist they had on the show was scratching his head...

There was only one Green on the panel on that show, Trevor Sargent. Please explain how he "made an ass of himself".

I doubt the French physicist was "scratching his head" - he is paid to promote nuclear power and I'm sure he's been in dozens of similar debates.

I was more amused by the pronouncements of the likes of John McGuirk and Richard Waghorne on that show - I think Mr Waghorne said he found the Greens "scary" because they wanted to return us all to the stone age. This is the chap who later went on to become "Chief Political Commentator" for the Irish Daily Mail.

Duncan Stewart, who was the other person on the panel opposing nuclear energy for Ireland, did make a bit of an eejit of himself, it has to be said.