Would you knowingly buy from israel?

Hobbes

Manic Moran wrote:

Israel's tech industry is probably second in the world only to that of Silicon Valley, California. Boycotting anything with Israeli connections is likely to be rather detremental to your convenience of living.

Thought it was only weapons based technology. Most tech comes from China. Silicon Valley stopped being the first a long time ago.

As for the American boycott laws, there are no rules against private boycotts of countries

Your personal boycott true, however if you were to refuse to do business with a company on the grounds it did business with or was part of Israel then there are US laws that will basically shut off your business from any US companies. And if it is a US company doing this (even outside of the US) you could fail jail time and fines.

Part of the US Export laws.

Zynks

Zynks wrote:

I personally try to avoid products that are known to be linked to:

• Child labour
• Indonesia
• Israel
• US

Do I take it you buy Russian and Chinese products, supporting the war on Chechnya and an appalling human rights record. And British goods, supporting the invasion of Iraq. Why are the people killed by those regimes less worthy?

El Stuntman

mayhem# wrote:

It's just another one of the ways that limp wristed bleeding heart lefties try to soothe their own conscience..
What's more; Israel is one of the only countries left on this planet that actually has a set of idals and principles and that stands by them instead of pandering to the public opinion. That alone gets my vote...
E.

LOL! that sounds like a very nasty medical condition....it afflicts far too many in this country

Israel is not a 'failed state' imo, it has a functioning democracy. Interesting to see how the two main blocs in Palestinian politics are currently ironing out their disgareements (i.e. by killing each other) - I suppose this is the Israeli's fault too? As part of the group of countries sharing modern democratic values, Israel is part of 'our' world....is Palestine?

If I had to live in the middle east, I'd far prefer to live in Israel than any of the other countries there. Suppose Dubai would be a distant number 2 and then....nowhere

Frederico

mayhem# wrote:

It's amazing how waferthin and unfounded some people's opinions are.
For one it wouldn't make a lick of difference in the grand scheme of things if you stopped buying products from Israel. It's just another one of the ways that limp wristed bleeding heart lefties try to soothe their own conscience..
What's more; Israel is one of the only countries left on this planet that actually has a set of idals and principles and that stands by them instead of pandering to the public opinion. That alone gets my vote...

E.

Ugh nothing worse than those limp wristed nancy boy lefties!! ooo look at us we waant to save the environment.. oooo we want peace in the world... bunch of pansies!

Now Israel, theres a manly country!.. war, occupation, brute force!.. they solve things the good old fashioned way!.. shotguns, rocking chairs, porches..

Zynks

Deleted User wrote:

Do I take it you buy Russian and Chinese products, supporting the war on Chechnya and an appalling human rights record. And British goods, supporting the invasion of Iraq. Why are the people killed by those regimes less worthy?

No, they are not.
I can't support all charities either, so I have to choose just a few and try to make a difference in that way.
I'd rather do a bit than nothing at all, which seems to be where your argumentation leads to.;)

Hagar

Zynks wrote:

It is a bit like the story of the elephant running from a forest on fire when he sees a bird flying to the river, filling his beak with water and he ask if the bird is mad since there is no way he can put the fire off by himself. The bird replies "well, I am doing my bit!"...

Lovely story, how did it work out?

When the South African boycott was in force it got great support from people who never questioned how SA's underdeveloped and drought-ridden neighbours were suddenly able to produce the exact quantity and quality of fresh fruit that SA used to produce before the boycott.

Boycott Isreal and you may find the same produce mysteriously coming from a neighbouring country so then you can buy it with a clear conscience.

El Stuntman

Frederico wrote:

Now Israel, theres a manly country!.. war, occupation, brute force!.. they solve things the good old fashioned way!.. shotguns, rocking chairs, porches..

you forgot incest...

mayhem#

Frederico wrote:

Ugh nothing worse than those limp wristed nancy boy lefties!! ooo look at us we waant to save the environment.. oooo we want peace in the world... bunch of pansies!

Now Israel, theres a manly country!.. war, occupation, brute force!.. they solve things the good old fashioned way!.. shotguns, rocking chairs, porches..

Not at all.
All of Israel's actions are undertaken in an effort to defend their citizens right to their territory. While they resort to military action to defend their legitimate claim to territory the Palestinians (supported by Syria, Iran and others of that ilk) resort to suicide bombings and the tactics of putting children in the line of fire. It would be interesting to see what method you support..

Also, what has your comment about saving the environment got to do with the discussion?

E.

Zynks

Hagar wrote:

Lovely story, how did it work out?

I knew someone would pick on the story, but that's fine since you are a mod:D
Yep, it burned to the ground, most probably. My point is that if you lead by example you help create awareness (the biggest factor of change in my view) and you can make a difference. This was a reply to Klaz's comment "I don't believe my buying power is all that significant".

Hagar wrote:

When the South African boycott was in force it got great support from people who never questioned how SA's underdeveloped and drought-ridden neighbours were suddenly able to produce the exact quantity and quality of fresh fruit that SA used to produce before the boycott.

Boycott Israel and you may find the same produce mysteriously coming from a neighbouring country so then you can buy it with a clear conscience.

Yep, I agree that there are several ways of avoiding the impact of boycotts and deceiving consumers, but is that a reason for people to stop making their point?

mayhem#

imeddyhobbs wrote:

I belive that israel is a terrorist state.

That is on of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time...

E.

Zynks

mayhem# wrote:

That is on of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time...

E.

I suspect there are a lot of people out there with the same "stupid" views.

Fratton Fred

Moisturiser and the like will all come from the Dead Sea, which if I’m not mistaken is in the West Bank. So maybe you are boycotting a company which provides income to thousands of Palestinians.

BTW, there is an Israeli company that produces the billing system for most of the worlds telecom companies, certainly mobile companies, so if you are that keen to boycott their products, I suggest you turn off your mobile phone as well.

Zynks

What are we trying to do here? Is it to discredit the value of commercial boycotts by proving how hard they are to implement? Many points in this thread appear to go in that direction.

Yes, boycotts are hard to implement, and two euro that you may not spend on a certain product may appear not to make much of a difference. BUT, if everyone that has an issue with a country's record or a company's policy decided to hold back on one single purchase as a statement, it will hurt, and I am sure they will know why. Don't underestimate the power consumer actions have.

Of course, there are some highly flawed actions, such as french fries being renamed liberty fries. Imagine the reaction of the french: "OMG, they are disassociating us from junk food. We must help invade Iraq, troops, pack your bags!!!"

El Stuntman

could somebody please define what a 'terrorist state' is?

and a list of countries that can be included as such

would be most helpful to this discussion, ty

Jimboo_Jones

Fratton Fred wrote:

Moisturiser and the like will all come from the Dead Sea

isnt the dead sea quickly disappearing, maybe that is reason enough to boycott the products from there?

Zynks

El Stuntman wrote:

could somebody please define what a 'terrorist state' is?

and a list of countries that can be included as such

would be most helpful to this discussion, ty

In this picture there is an individual from a terrorist state. Can you spot him?

El Stuntman

Zynks wrote:

In this picture there is an individual from a terrorist state. Can you spot him?

that's really helpful thanks

to be serious: what are the attributes of a 'terrorist state'?

Zynks

Zynks wrote:

Well, she could have said she was not interested in politics and that would be that.

Indeed, she could have. However, it was he that initiated the political dialogue. She was only trying to sell a product he had already shown some interest in. He was the one that volunteered an opinion totally unrelated to the product beyond that it came from Israel.

TBH, I thought he was quite rude in what he did. And her response I found extremely reasonable, since she would have no reason to believe that he actually knew anything of the reality of the situation in Palestine/Israel. Afterall, there's alot of Irish (and other) people who have formed opinions on the subject with very little knowledge of the area. After Lebanon, I daresay Israeli's have heard quite a few of these opinions.

On a side note, do products produced by Palestinians & other countries companies' made within Israel, show as being produced in Israel, and therefore fall under your ban?

Just out of curiosity, do you have the same perception of your voting power?

Actually, nope. I vote whenever I have the opportunity. The difference is that my vote counts towards the population of Ireland. My not buying a product counts against everyone that buys the product worldwide. Bit of a difference. Besides, I don't think boycotting a country actually bothers the government, but only affects the people trying to make money through the product.

I personally try to avoid products that are known to be linked to:

Child labour
Indonesia
Israel
US

Really? How comprehensive are you? Cause the US covers quite alot of the products that we receive in Ireland. It also includes alot of the TV shows, movies, and other leisure activities. And why not include the UK & the other coalition countries in this ban?

I'm not disputing your "desire" to boycott Israel. I actually have no issues with you or anyone else doing so. My only real issue is the OP throwing down the "gauntlet" at that woman, simply because he wanted to make that statement. There was no reason for him to announce that he was boycotting Israel. All he had to do was ignore the product, and move on. He was the one that decided that this should no longer be about the product but rather be about his political beliefs.

Just imagine for a second...... that this woman was actually Palestinian, and selling their own products, but under the Israeli label. Do you think she might be justified in saying the OP knew nothing? Or perhaps the company that sells the product donates 30% of their profits to charities & aid stations in Palestinian territories....?

The simple fact is that he made a sweeping judgement on the origin of the product. And this is my main problem with a country type boycott.

There is no knowledge of the products, the companies involved, or how these companies operate in the countries. There is no knowledge as to whether the
company/product is Israeli owned, palestinian owned, staffed by palestinians, etc. And people don't really care to find out. [In My Opinion] People boycott to make themselves feel better. It wouldn't help their stance, if they knew that their boycotting a product, caused the firing of 10 Palestinians who relied on the job for their sole income. Although i suppose that would be another reason to boycott Israel. Know what I mean?

Frederico wrote:

Ugh nothing worse than those limp wristed nancy boy lefties!! ooo look at us we waant to save the environment.. oooo we want
peace in the world... bunch of pansies!

Now Israel, theres a manly country!.. war, occupation, brute force!.. they solve things the good old fashioned way!.. shotguns, rocking chairs,
porches..

Ahh, well, there's the alternative... Palestine, a truely manly country. Violent resistance, corruption, inter-fighting! They "solve" things the same
way all the time!.... suicide bombers, rocket attacks, ambushes, stabbings....

That work better for you?

Originally Posted by mayhem#
That is on of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time...

E.

Zynks wrote:

I suspect there are a lot of people out there with the same "stupid" views.

Sure, there will be. Just as there were thousands who thought Hitler was right in what he sought. Just as thousands supported Stalins actions. Just as thousands of US citizens support US actions in Iraq. Just as thousands support Israel's presence in Palestine. And how thousands support Palestinian resistance. Just as thousands support AQ's war on the West.

For most viewpoints, if you look hard enough, you'll find lots of people to support them. Its a big world.

Jimboo_Jones

Deleted User wrote:

There is no knowledge of the products, the companies involved, or how these companies operate in the countries. There is no knowledge as to whether the
company/product is Israeli owned, palestinian owned, staffed by palestinians, etc. And people don't really care to find out. [In My Opinion] People boycott to make themselves feel better. It wouldn't help their stance, if they knew that their boycotting a product, caused the firing of 10 Palestinians who relied on the job for their sole income. Although i suppose that would be another reason to boycott Israel. Know what I mean?

humm, I guess you didnt support the South African boycott for simalar reasons, IE. the companies boycotted tended to employ black South Africans? Or indeed Sanctions against North Korea, which would again impact most on the poorest the most.

Of course people boycott Israel to make themself feel better, maybe they dont like to think that maybe some small part of their cash goes towards the cost of a bomb which is later dropped on a family having a picknic at a beach, or on their appartment as they sleep etc etc... its their choice after all.

heres an interesting article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/analysis/99544.stm

'The per capita income of Palestinians has fallen by 40% since the peace accords of 1993. Few would disagree that the two factors of increasing economic hardship and despair over progress in the peace negotiations are a volatile combination.'

I found it suprising that the average income had fallen during peacefull times to be honest. (this was writen in 1998)

Judt

Hobbes wrote:

Thought it was only weapons based technology. Most tech comes from China. Silicon Valley stopped being the first a long time ago.

Part of the US Export laws.

You mean Taiwan? Or do you support China in that one? Israel is where Intel, and other companies, do a lot of R&D.

Jimboo_Jones

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

humm, I guess you didnt support the South African boycott for simalar reasons, IE. the companies boycotted tended to employ black South Africans? Or indeed Sanctions against North Korea, which would again impact most on the poorest the most.

Actually I've already said that I wouldn't boycott in the first place. I don't believe it achieves anything without Governmental support. And even then it affects the people more than the actual government.

But since you felt like asking me this, why not answer about the Palestinians that might be directly affected by your boycott?

Of course people boycott Israel to make themself feel better, maybe they dont like to think that maybe some small part of their cash goes towards the cost of a bomb which is later dropped on a family having a picknic at a beach, or on their appartment as they sleep etc etc... its their choice after all.

And I'm not knocking it. We all choose where our money goes. I'm just pointing out that boycotters aren't as selfless as is sometimes made out. And I'm also pointing out that boycotters are often more ignorant about the products they're boycotting than they are about the products they're still buying. Its just a matter of perception.

bonkey

Judt wrote:

Israel is where Intel, and other companies, do a lot of R&D.

Indeed. I hope all those boycotters have 100% non-Intel computers to post from.

Time Magazine

I didn't buy any products from Ireland until last year because of the IRA.

bonkey

bonkey wrote:

Indeed. I hope all those boycotters have 100% non-Intel computers to post from.

LoL. Great point.

Jimboo_Jones

Deleted User wrote:

But since you felt like asking me this, why not answer about the Palestinians that might be directly affected by your boycott?

Well, as I stated above, I dont actually boycott products from Isreal, but I do remember ANC and Nelson Mandela supporting the South African, boycott, I would imagin that the Palestinians would be of the same opinion.

Like I said before, I think that donatations are probably a better cause of action, but being to tight, I dont partake in that either.

But I don't knock people who feel strongly enough about the topic to actually do something about it.

Jimboo_Jones

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

But I don't knock people who feel strongly enough about the topic to actually do something about it.

I can't recall knocking anyone in this thread?

Actually i think the only thing I've said close to that was about the OP and saying I thought he was rude for how he acted....

Dontico

if i see a lable saying "made in israel" then i wont buy it. but its hard to know if something is an israeli product or not. cause israel makes industrial products so something that might say "made in the eu", may be partcially israeli.

i dont buy israeli products for the same reason i dont buy dorrena allen(sp?) ice cream and try not to buy american and english products.

Zynks

Deleted User wrote:

Indeed, she could have. However, it was he that initiated the political dialogue. She was only trying to sell a product he had already shown some interest in. He was the one that volunteered an opinion totally unrelated to the product beyond that it came from Israel.
TBH, I thought he was quite rude in what he did.

There is one point you are missing. HE made a personal choice. SHE took personally something that should only have a business impact on her. There are some possible variables:

• She is not Israeli - then she was taking it personally without a personal reason
• She is Israeli - good, she can let her people know how the actions of her country are perceived and also may consider that when voting next time

I don't see anything rude in "I told her that i was going to buy something from her until i noticed that they were made in Israel and that i would not knowingly buy anything from Israel".

Deleted User wrote:

Actually, nope. I vote whenever I have the opportunity. The difference is that my vote counts towards the population of Ireland. My not buying a product counts against everyone that buys the product worldwide.

How does it count "against everyone that buys the product worldwide"?

Deleted User wrote:

Bit of a difference. Besides, I don't think boycotting a country actually bothers the government, but only affects the people trying to make money through the product.

Yes, and those people vote! Do you get my drift?

Deleted User wrote:

Really? How comprehensive are you? Cause the US covers quite alot of the products that we receive in Ireland. It also includes alot of the TV shows, movies, and other leisure activities. And why not include the UK & the other coalition countries in this ban?

I have already admitted my inability to be a "comprehensive boycotter". Do you think that renders my efforts inefective? If you do, let's agree to disagree.

Deleted User wrote:

There was no reason for him to announce that he was boycotting Israel. All he had to do was ignore the product, and move on.

Why should he? Any sound business person wants to know what are the issues with their products and services in order to see how to improve them. I always give feedback, positive or negative. I also seek feedback when I am doing business.

Deleted User wrote:

Just imagine for a second...... that this woman was actually Palestinian, and selling their own products, but under the Israeli label. Do you think she might be justified in saying the OP knew nothing? Or perhaps the company that sells the product donates 30% of their profits to charities & aid stations in Palestinian territories....?

That's some imagination you have If that was the (extremely unlikely) case, I am sure she would have no issue with volunteering such information instead of becoming aggressive.

Ibid

Ibid wrote:

I didn't buy any products from Ireland until last year because of the IRA.

Tried that but the potatys are just so darn tasty.

I think I'll boycott stuff I don't like as a compromise. Maybe Israeli celery and Israeli brussels sprouts...and Israeli Bovril...

verbatim

In a globalised world its difficult to completely boycott a given country. Israel for example is a huge exporter of software, and has a lot of tech R&D based there. So its quite likely you are using software from Israel right now, but I dont have a problem with that at all. I think the state of Israel should exist, and whilst their actions towards the palestines are quite brutal, when your surrounded by countries which want to wipe you, and all people of your religion, off the face of the earth, you can see why they react with strong military force when threatened. I'd much prefer a democratic country like Israel in the middle east any day over a country run by religious fundamentalists or a military dictator.